Rifle Scopes What would you do? Mark 4 or PH???

[Twisted]

So, I am a fairly new long range shooter. Been at it well under a year but learning quick. I'm shooting a Remington 700 SPS-T in .308 and have been doing well. I'm consistant as all can be out to 600 and the little trigger time I've had past that I've done very well. My longest verified hit was at 1200 and my very first time at that distance I was on it in 3. Current optics are Leupold Mark 4 4.5-14x40 w/ M1 and TMR. 1000 and beyond is a bit of a struggle at 14x but fortunatly I have fairly young eyes so wasn't an issue. But I was looking at upgrading to the Leupy M4 6.5-20x50 LRT so I could have a little better view at distance and illuminated reticle.

Some of you may remember a little while back when Scott at Liberty Optics gave away a Premiere Heritage 3-15x50. Well long story short, that scope is sitting in my safe. I've looked through it many times and it is no doubt a quality durable piece, I just can't decide what to do because honestly I am a Leupy fan and love my current Mark 4.

So here are my options. (keep in mind my current Mark 4 is going on another rifle of mine so selling it is not an option)

1) Keep the PH, spend $130ish on new 34mm rings, mount it up and go. I would gain the illuminated reticle and a durable scope, not sure that I "need" the extra durability. The magnification is a lateral move basically and I will need to lear milrad adjustments which isn't really a bad thing, will just be different than my other rifles.

2) Sell the PH, buy the Mark 4 6.5-20, use my current Seekins rings, use the difference in costs to buy a laser range finder, detach mag setup, or something else that I could use and don't have right now. I would end up with the optics I believe I want and some other goodies that I can't afford yet. The downside is I feel bad selling a scope I won (even though Scott said sell it) and I almost feel like I'm giving up an optic that might be better than I realize and will grow into. I just don't know if I will ever get to the point that a Leupy M4 is my limitation and that the PH would treat me better at that time.

Just looking for some input here. I know there aren't many Leupy fans here exactly but it was you guys who have helped guide me thus far and I have been happy with everything, especially my Leupy.

 

[glock24]

Re: What would you do? Mark 4 or PH???

Apples and oranges my friend.

You're missing the other huge advantages of the PH, namely the FFP and matching milliradian knobs and reticle.

Once you become more familiar with long-range shooting, you'll come to understand the advantage of the PH. I say keep it and expand your shooting horizons.

 

[hydro556]

Re: What would you do? Mark 4 or PH???

If you dont need the FFP, I would sell the PH (awesome, but not necessary) and get a higher mag MKIV and then use the extra for components, DBM, etc..

The MKIV's do what the majority of us need. I am in the middle of dwnsizing from USO's and S&B and high end customs to a Rem LTR with a MKIV model 60000. Illuminated TMR.

The highest end optics are bad ass, but after using them, I have decided to downsize everything and spend the extra funds on components and shoot more. I will still have quality gear.

 

[Wild_Bill]

Re: What would you do? Mark 4 or PH???

i would either mount up the priemer and use it or see if you could throw a few more dollars onto it amd trade it up to a 5-25 premier and then mount it up im my opinion Leupold is nowhere close in comparison to Premier.

If it has the magnification you want i would use it over any leupold you gave me but i have had some issues int he past with Leupold tracking and i admit they warrant their product very well but i prefer not to have to use the warrenty if possible.

 

[Falar]

Re: What would you do? Mark 4 or PH???

Keep the Premier. No need to take such a large step down if you already own the Premier.

 

[Twisted]

Re: What would you do? Mark 4 or PH???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wild_Bill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i would either mount up the priemer and use it or see if you could throw a few more dollars onto it amd trade it up to a 5-25 premier and then mount it up im my opinion Leupold is nowhere close in comparison to Premier.

If it has the magnification you want i would use it over any leupold you gave me but i have had some issues int he past with Leupold tracking and i admit they warrant their product very well but i prefer not to have to use the warrenty if possible.

</div></div>

The thought of upgrading the PH has crossed my mind but that is more money out of pocket to get what I suspect the higher mag mark 4 would do for me. If this was the 5-25 PH I would mount it up in a heartbeat. Not to sound cheap or anything but shooting is a hobby of mine, not a proffesion, so it doesn't take priority to the funds like bills, my kid, child support, etc. etc. I work hard for my money and wish I could play with it all but the world doesn't seem to work that way for me.

Its kind of ironic but the only place I really ever hear about Leupold issues like tracking and canted reticle is online. Since Leupold is in my backyard (well under an hour from home) there are a lot of people running them around here and never a report of such problems. I don't doubt that they have them but if not for the internet I would know not of any of them. At any rate, if a problem arises, it is well known they will take care of it, and with them so close it would be pretty quick turnaround. (not to mention I may happen to know some people working there who can help speed up the process if need be)

I'm also kind of humored at the closet Leupold fans.

I've gotten a handfull of PM's in the last 20 minutes praising the Leupy or at least putting it ahead of the pack but everyone is afraid to say it out loud. Hahaha. Not knocking on anyone, I appreciate all the input, just humors me a bit.

Keep the input coming guys, I'm still undecided and probably won't decide real soon. I've been pondering what to do for over a month and keep changing my mind almost hourly.

 

[Luvman]

Re: What would you do? Mark 4 or PH???

I have a PH. I used to have a vortex viper 6.5-20x44. I've never owned a loopy. I have compared a loopy 6.5-20 mk iv side by side with my old viper.

I'd keep the PH unless money was an issue then I'd sell the PH and get a viper for less than half the price of the loopy. Glass on the viper was comparable to the loopy and it didn't lose zero after taking a tumble.

Or for few hundred more get an NXS. IMHO Mk IV's are WAY overpriced.

 

[hydro556]

Re: What would you do? Mark 4 or PH???

My feeling is the MKIV is a great buy. Especially from Scott or Mike.

The MKIV's are excellent, compact scopes, especially the 60000.

 

[Twisted]

Re: What would you do? Mark 4 or PH???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydro556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My feeling is the MKIV is a great buy. Especially from Scott or Mike.

The MKIV's are excellent, compact scopes, especially the 60000. </div></div>

Oh I'll agree with that, my current optic is basically the 6000 minus the illuminated reticle. Its great and I plan on hosting it on another rifle of mine, just looking to upgrade the main bolt gun. Kinda doin the math on what I realistically could expect from the PH and what the new Mark 4 would cost. And conclusion is I still can't decide.

I'm look at it like I can sell the PH, get the Leupy and a decent range finder, no money out of pocket.

Or I keep the PH, fork out more cash for rings, still have no range finder and less money in the wallet.

 

[gugubica]

Re: What would you do? Mark 4 or PH???

If you are happy with the Leupy, and it does everything you need it to do, sell the PH and get another Leupy.

It sounds like you are wanting us to talk you into something you don't want to do.

It is your gear, only you know what you need your gear to do.

Or, you can look at it this way. You don't have anything in the PH. Go buy a set of rings and try it. If you don't like it, you can sell it with the rings and still do pretty good. You might be surprised how much difference the optical advantage makes at seeing the target. If you hate it, all you will lose is some time and a few range trips.

 

[BobinNC]

Re: What would you do? Mark 4 or PH???

Twisted,

You are making this way too hard. Buy what you like: like what you buy. It does not matter what anyone else likes or would do.

If you have a PH 3-15, that you got for free, then sell it and buy what you you want and think you need.

If Leupold suits you, then it does not matter if 100 of us think it's junk ( and it's not junk). What do you THINK......

None of us know your ability, or your needs, or your goals in shooting better than you do. Putting it another way, if you won $2k in the lottery tomorrow, what scope and accouterments would you buy? You are not going to offend anybody if you sell your PH and buy a Leupold or two.

Make your self happy, not us....

Bob

 

[19Scout77]

Re: What would you do? Mark 4 or PH???

Having gone through the "tactical" shooter's evolution myself in the past couple years, I ask you this... have you ever seen a shooter who uses optics to determine range and shoots at movers switch BACK to a SFP after using an FFP?

IMO if you plan on milling targets and/or shooting movers then it would be a serious step backwards to give up the PH in favor of another leupold.

If you plan on laying on your belly at known distance shooting stationary targets and using a LRF then use whatever makes you happy.

 

[Twisted]

Re: What would you do? Mark 4 or PH???

I am not asking anyone to make my decision for me. I'm just torn as to what I would rather have or would work better for me so just asking input to help me with the decision. I have a good idea of what I want to do one minute, then change it the next. So figure it can't hurt to ask. I know in the end it is my decision, and I don't really question that the PH is more scope than the Leupy, what I am questioning in my head is the fact that the Leupy does all I need and then some would I be better off with a Leupy and another piece of gear to help.

 

[gugubica]

Re: What would you do? Mark 4 or PH???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Twisted</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...the fact that the Leupy does all I need ...</div></div>

There ya go, you just answered your own question.

 

[mgraff]

Re: What would you do? Mark 4 or PH???

Twisted..check your PMs

 

[427Cobra]

Re: What would you do? Mark 4 or PH???

I understand your delema, and i'm no Luepold fan, so split the difference and get a NightForce with matching reticle and knobs.

 

[Red_SC]

Re: What would you do? Mark 4 or PH???

I'll trade you this scope, straight up!

6.5-20x50, TMR reticle

Just let me know.

If you want more magnification, by all means get a scope with more magnification. I'd personally get a Nightforce instead of another Leupold, but that's just me. Don't settle for a scope with features you don't prefer, it will always bug you even if it is a top shelf scope.

eta: That's not me in the pic.

 

[Mo_Zam_Beek]

Re: What would you do? Mark 4 or PH???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gugubica</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

It is your gear, only you know what you need your gear to do.
</div></div>

This.

Are you East Side or West Side? Spend an hour someplace this evening where you can sit by yourself with just the optics - Mt. Tabor, Washington Park, OSHU, Port of Portland, an industrial area like Rivergate or Swan Island, or even a out by PRI. Hopefully it will be grey and raining. Pick a few objects from 100 to 1k and watch them until 20 minutes past sunset.

I have Loopy. They track and they aren't canted. They are also dark.

If that isn't important to you - yeah, I'd spin the PH in a heart beat and trip on over to Beaverton.

May as well hit the Danner factory store with the margin while your at it.

Good luck

 

[Twisted]

Re: What would you do? Mark 4 or PH???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Are you East Side or West Side? Spend an hour someplace this evening where you can sit by yourself with just the optics - Mt. Tabor, Washington Park, OSHU, Port of Portland, an industrial area like Rivergate or Swan Island, or even a out by PRI. Hopefully it will be grey and raining. Pick a few objects from 100 to 1k and watch them until 20 minutes past sunset.

I have Loopy. They track and they aren't canted. They are also dark.

If that isn't important to you - yeah, I'd spin the PH in a heart beat and trip on over to Beaverton.

May as well hit the Danner factory store with the margin while your at it.

Good luck </div></div>

I am west side, just south of Portland. That is a good idea. I have yet to compare my leupy to the PH in low light. Maybe I'll do that tonight but instead of hitting Portland will just do it at home where I can leave the leupy mounted on the rifle and not get arrested. One of the joys of living in the country.

Might go to TCGC tomorrow night and shoot the 600. If I do will take the PH to compare since it will be getting dark after work.

 

[RemingtonSPS]

Re: What would you do? Mark 4 or PH???

It kind of sounds like you have already made up your mind. I think the NXS is definetly the way to go if you want money left over for other things. If weight is a factor go with the Leupold I believe its the lightest of all 3. IMO the reticle is more important than magnification. The NXS with the NPR-1 has a thinner reticle than the leupold TMR. Even on 15x you can hold on a real small target (the crosshairs are .12moa thick, that's 1 1/4" @1000yds) plus you have the advantage of moa/moa. If it were me I would keep the Heritage even though I don't like mil/mil its better than moa/mil. Or sell it and get the NXS 5-22 FFP with the NPR-1 that would have all the features you want and you could use your current rings. I'm waiting for the moa reticle Heritage.

 

[CANAVAR]

Re: What would you do? Mark 4 or PH???

First off, without a doubt the PH is a much better scope than the Leupy. I personally would sell the MK4 and get and PH 5-25. Since you didn't list that as an option, I would sell the PH and get the 6.5-20 and match the turrets and reticle of your 4.5-14. As you begin shooting more and switch from rifle to rifle you'll appreciate scopes with common reticles and adjustments.