Rifle Scopes What Zero distance is best?

[Graham]

Careful here. 100yards is actually 91.4 meters. 1000yards is actually 914 meters. The difference is small at 100, but is the difference between hit/miss at 1k.

If you're looking through a mil-based reticled scope, then it's best to keep it all metric.... Kinda like how we enjoy mil-based adjustments with mil-based reticles. No sense in following it up by switching to yards now, is there....

Just eliminate variables and make things simple. Keeping it all metric will assist in keeping it simple.

If what you are saying is true, then there is a difference in the elevation zero. So, what is the difference in the .308 trajectory between 91.4 meters and 100 meters?

And there's nothing metric about mils, so keeping linear measurements in metric units will in no way either affect the outcome or make anything easier.

 

[Thebelly]

If what you are saying is true, then there is a difference in the elevation zero. So, what is the difference in the .308 trajectory between 91.4 meters and 100 meters?

And there's nothing metric about mils, so keeping linear measurements in metric units will in no way either affect the outcome or make anything easier.

There's a difference between 1000m and 914m (1000yds). If that's the end goal, then keeping it in mind from the start can't hurt.

My (limited) understanding is that Mil based adjustments are dealing with centimeters at meters, so what's not metric about that? Also, since MOA is commonly referred to an inch (1.047") at 100yards, then that seems fairly non-metric to me.

If you have the time, please explain it to me. I'm pretty nerdy, but still new to this, and if it can help in achieving an accurate zero (again, keeping the end goal of a hit on target at long range), then I really think it could help.

100% disclosure: my intention is NOT to be a jerk, but rather to gain from some understanding that others (you) have.

 

[Joseph Floerke]

I have a 100 yd zero on every gun I just like it that way if I Wana shhot further dial it up.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Graham]

My (limited) understanding is that Mil based adjustments are dealing with centimeters at meters, so what's not metric about that? Also, since MOA is commonly referred to an inch (1.047") at 100yards, then that seems fairly non-metric to me.

If you have the time, please explain it to me.

It's a recurring theme here: There are plenty of threads here on the topic of Mils vs. MOA. Maybe someone could post a link to the latest one, or to the one with the best explanation.

 

[Thebelly]

It's a recurring theme here: There are plenty of threads here on the topic of Mils vs. MOA. Maybe someone could post a link to the latest one, or to the one with the best explanation.

I'm sorry, but that's not an answer to the question.

I'm new here, so please forgive me and offer a bit of rudimentary follow up:

Am I right or am I wrong in that when you make centimeter adjustments from 100 meter away, that is mil-based? I just don't know.

 

[Lowlight]

A 1/10th MRAD adjustment is a 1/10th MRAD adjustment, the linear distance is a product of the distance used and works regardless of yards or meters.

Its an Angle and one designed to work with anything, yards, meters, miles....

1/1000 of 3600 inches = .36 so if you dial 1/10th you moved it that far at 100 yards which happens to be 3600 inches.

But if you are using the linear distance with a scope you're doing it wrong or at least the hard way.

A mil in the reticle at any distance is a mil dialed on the scope. What you see is what you get and they give you a calibrated ruler to use 6" in front of you face. So if your group is .7 mils low and you are .3 mils right you just dial .7 up and .3 left. Read your reticle. If you have to go down range to measure you're wrong. But luckily yes, 1 MRAD does translate to centimeters you just move the decimal point.

 

[Thebelly]

A 1/10th MRAD adjustment is a 1/10th MRAD adjustment, the linear distance is a product of the distance used and works regardless of yards or meters.

Its an Angle and one designed to work with anything, yards, meters, miles....

1/1000 of 3600 inches = .36 so if you dial 1/10th you moved it that far at 100 yards which happens to be 3600 inches.

But if you are using the linear distance with a scope you're doing it wrong or at least the hard way.

A mil in the reticle at any distance is a mil dialed on the scope. What you see is what you get and they give you a calibrated ruler to use 6" in front of you face. So if your group is .7 mils low and you are .3 mils right you just dial .7 up and .3 left. Read your reticle. If you have to go down range to measure you're wrong. But luckily yes, 1 MRAD does translate to centimeters you just move the decimal point.

Tracking all.

This, unfortunately, raises more questions in my brain.

If the target is exactly 100m away, then when I want to adjust over 1cm, then I can do so (providing that my scope is tracking correctly). If my target is closer, then I can still move my poi 1cm over in the direction I wanted, but it won't then say I have a zero at 100m.

This is the exact point I'm trying to understand. How will I know that the distance I think I'm zeroing is actually 100m? I mean I could put 100m into my little ballistic solver, then I'd be putting bad data in if the distance is not 100m.

If I make a 1mil target, then back up until it covers 1 mil in my scope, then I should be 100m away, right?

 

[Lowlight]

You're brain probably hurts a lot.

Try going to a range with a 100 yards marked off, if you want 100m, it's 9yds more, bring a tape measure, buy a laser range finder, ask the guy next to you how far that is.

if you can't figure out what a 100 yards or meters is, you might want to consider taking a class instead of offering advise on the internet. You can zero at either and it really won't make a difference. 100 yards versus 109 is not gonna matter. You can use yards with mils, it's not an issue, unless you live in Europe, i would not concern yourself with changing units of measurement. A 100 yard zero with a Mil Based scope is fine, works 100%

 

[gunfreak101]

Lets face it for most of us 100 yards. I wish I could do more but I guess I am to stupid.

 

[Thebelly]

You're brain probably hurts a lot.

Try going to a range with a 100 yards marked off, if you want 100m, it's 9yds more, bring a tape measure, buy a laser range finder, ask the guy next to you how far that is.

if you can't figure out what a 100 yards or meters is, you might want to consider taking a class instead.

I know what 100yds looks like, but its a 'give-or-take. I was trying to say that there's a way to figure it out exactly.... Without the use of LRF, or fancy gadgets. A guy with a piece of paper, a ruler, and a pen. Figure out 100m/y exactly...ready go.

You've obviously got more experience than me with these things, but I will give myself every opportunity to be as exacting as possible from the get-go.

I'm only advocating that there's nothing wrong with being as exact as possible. T me, if I click my scope .1mil, then (when I'm zeroing) I want that poi to move 1cm. That can happen if I'm really close to 100m.

Yes, this topic makes my brain hurt really bad.

 

[Lowlight]

The trajectory of a 308 says the POA to POI is roughly 78 yards to 109 yards, so you don' t necessarily have to be "exact" if you want exact, get a 300ft tape measure, that is 100 yards.

How tight a group do you think you're gonna shoot anyway ? if it's a 1/4" above or below and your group is 1 MOA do you think will notice ?

 

[Papa Zero Three]

I'm sorry, but that's not an answer to the question.

I'm new here, so please forgive me and offer a bit of rudimentary follow up:

Am I right or am I wrong in that when you make centimeter adjustments from 100 meter away, that is mil-based? I just don't know.

Here is an in depth explanation on MIL and MOA.

http://www.mil-dot.com/media/1027/the_derivation_of_the_range_estimation_equations.pdf

 

[Thebelly]

The trajectory of a 308 says the POA to POI is roughly 78 yards to 109 yards, so you don' t necessarily have to be "exact" if you want exact, get a 300ft tape measure, that is 100 yards.

How tight a group do you think you're gonna shoot anyway ? if it's a 1/4" above or below and your group is 1 MOA do you think will notice ?

If I use a 100yd zero, the drop for my gun/ammo condition for 750 yds is 7.48mils.
If I use a 78yd zero, the drop is 7.55mils. At 1k, it's 12.44
If I use a 109yd zero, the drop is 7.44mils. At 1k, it's 12.33
0.1 mil can be the difference between hit/miss at 1k, and that's the before shooter error is introduce. If I'm wrong, please let me know. (.1 mil should = 10cm, which = 3.94", give or take)

I would like to shoot better than MOA, and I have been able to do that in the past (yesterday I freakishly dropped a 0.3" group). The best group that I've gotten at 100m is less than 1/4" (after bullet width is removed). I can't back that one up with pictures or anything.

I'm only verbalizing this (typing it all out) so that I can soak up the knowledge on every aspect of this topic, keeping the end goal of shooting accurately at 750 and 1k in mind. I certainly don't mean any disrespect and I'm not trying to get on anyone's bad side.

In the past, I've been very concerned with the application of carbines from 200yds and closer. Anything farther than that has been grabbing a medium machine gun. Farther than that I ask the planes to drop a bomb on it.

This whole business of long range precision with effective direct fires is pretty involved.

 

[Thebelly]

Here is an in depth explanation on MIL and MOA.

http://www.mil-dot.com/media/1027/the_derivation_of_the_range_estimation_equations.pdf

Don't you threaten me with a good time!

 

[Lowlight]

How do you dial a scope to .44 or .55, or .48 ?

They adjust in 1/10th Mils ... so that means .4, .4. & .5... it's an example of your ignorance I was pointing out that if you can't figure out 100 yards, why are you bothering to waste all our time.

If you zero at 99 yards, 100 yards, or 101 would it really matter, no... you proved the point. The answer you got was .4, .4. and .5, .1 off, which you can't hold at 1000 yards, especially when you have such a problem with simple concepts

Really, I think you might want to look elsewhere as you are wasting a lot of bandwidth

 

[Thebelly]

Really, I think you might want to look elsewhere as you are wasting a lot of bandwidth

Are you asking (telling me, really, since you're the admin) to not return to this site?

 

[Lowlight]

I am saying if you know it all, why are you bothering to waste our time.

Simplifying the concepts don't work, explaining them doesn't either, twice now you have been pointed in a different direction, maybe research that before responding

 

[Sako man]

Tracking all.

This, unfortunately, raises more questions in my brain.

If the target is exactly 100m away, then when I want to adjust over 1cm, then I can do so (providing that my scope is tracking correctly). If my target is closer, then I can still move my poi 1cm over in the direction I wanted, but it won't then say I have a zero at 100m.

This is the exact point I'm trying to understand. How will I know that the distance I think I'm zeroing is actually 100m? I mean I could put 100m into my little ballistic solver, then I'd be putting bad data in if the distance is not 100m.

If I make a 1mil target, then back up until it covers 1 mil in my scope, then I should be 100m away, right?

What? Dude, are you for real. Hey I'm sorry for entertaining this but really. It's base ten if you have a mil optic, easy math. Go to a range that has a 100 yard line, not a 101 yard line or a 67 yard line or fuck what. Zero your optic at 100 then your good to go. Don't get hung up on yards vs meters.

Ok, hey I got a better idea for you, so in Call of Duty go to the virtual range and enter cheat code (up-down-down-B-B-A-B-left arrow) and now your 50 cal Barrett sniper weapon with laser optics will work perfectly, now you got it right?

 

[Captain Kirk]

Ok, hey I got a better idea for you, so in Call of Duty go to the virtual range and enter cheat code (up-down-down-B-B-A-B-left arrow) and now your 50 cal Barrett sniper weapon with laser optics will work perfectly, now you got it right?

I'm totally using that cheat code....

 

[Thebelly]

Hey.....

I got it, I'm asking dumb questions. Apparently that's discouraged. My apologies.

The call of duty reference mixed with the contra reference.... Nice touch!

 

[scudzuki]

Arguing that if you dial in 3.7 mils of elevation for a particular load/distance/conditions combination that is a zero for that distance is BS, and I can prove it.
Is the elevation dial adjusted to zero with that elevation dialed in?
If it is, you have one whacky impossible to read elevation turret, since it must me marked with zeros at every graduation.

Zeroing a scope means setting the elevation turret TO ZERO in order to have POA coincident with POI at one fixed distance.
Period.
It's a baseline that you can return to if you get lost, and verify easily.
You gonna return to the D.O.P.E. you dialed last week when you ended up setting up 620 yards from the steel?
You gonna use that as your reference?
And before someone has to point it out, yes, once every revolution the elevation turret lands on zero.
In most cases this will be at some odd distance, that, again, will be difficult to return to, to verify. Even though it's zeroed at that distance (the turret is on "0") it's not much of a reference point if you can't verify it.

Dialing in D.O.P.E. is just that, dialing in D.O.P.E.

Not the same thing.

100 yard zero unless your scope/base combo limits your elevation to less than you need for a longer rang than you frequently shoot.

Joe

 

[Thebelly]

Arguing that if you dial in 3.7 mils of elevation for a particular load/distance/conditions combination that is a zero for that distance is BS, and I can prove it.
Is the elevation dial adjusted to zero with that elevation dialed in?
If it is, you have one whacky impossible to read elevation turret, since it must me marked with zeros at every graduation.

Zeroing a scope means setting the elevation turret TO ZERO in order to have POA coincident with POI at one fixed distance.
Period.
It's a baseline that you can return to if you get lost, and verify easily.
You gonna return to the D.O.P.E. you dialed last week when you ended up setting up 620 yards from the steel?
You gonna use that as your reference?
And before someone has to point it out, yes, once every revolution the elevation turret lands on zero.
In most cases this will be at some odd distance, that, again, will be difficult to return to, to verify. Even though it's zeroed at that distance (the turret is on "0") it's not much of a reference point if you can't verify it.

Dialing in D.O.P.E. is just that, dialing in D.O.P.E.

Not the same thing.

100 yard zero unless your scope/base combo limits your elevation to less than you need for a longer rang than you frequently shoot.

Joe

Is this directed towards me?

 

[scudzuki]

Only if you posted that (paraphrasing here) a scope is considered zeroed at any distance where the POI is coincident with the POA and the POA is the center of the reticle, regardless of whether the elevation turret actually reads zero (as in once dope is correctly dialed in to compensate for the distance).

Joe

 

[randy geneske]

Mils and Moa Simplified Is another link (Papa Zero Three gave a good one as well) to help sort out the difference between mil/moa. The study of both articles should help anyone confused about that issue. For me the light bulb did not go on untill I realised the difference between (mil/moa being angular measure) and (inches/feet/yards - milimeters/centimeters/meters being linear measure).

 

[SNIPERTARGET]

good information here... i can't be reminded enough
thank you all