Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

[Rprecision]

I have played with my 24" upper before out to around 700 yards and was disapointed. being a 1/9 twist I couldnt shoot anything much past 60 grain slugs.

I am considering building a Mk12 DMR type 18" upper with a 1/7 twist.

I havent played with match 5.56/.223 since about 2005. I was leaning towards 68/69gr BTHP. What do you think is a reasonable max range ?

Im still new here, great forum

 

[FCS]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

9 twist does just fine n dandy with 68/69 and most times with 77s also.

Disappointed in what way? Velocity, accuracy, or ?????

What is end use for new/old rifle? Punching paper, ringing steel, dropping 'yotes, or ??????

 

[Rprecision]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: McCourt Munitions LLC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">9 twist does just fine n dandy with 68/69 and most times with 77s also.

Disappointed in what way? Velocity, accuracy, or ?????

What is end use for new/old rifle? Punching paper, ringing steel, dropping 'yotes, or ?????? </div></div>

Accuracy, It will shoot 60 ish grn bullets .75-1.0 moa, when I switched to 68's it opened up to 2-4moa. I had some keyhole at 300 yards. I even played around with 75's which was far worse. I would say 3-4 out of ten would keyhole. I have confirmed it is a 1/9 barrel.

The same loads shot WAY better out of a buddys 1/7 carbine

It will be a longer range upper. Steel, yotes, paper.

 

[BCP]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

1:8 twist stainless steel w/wylde chamber if you can get it. When it comes to barrel length keep in mind the more velocity you have the more consistent you'll be. 18" is a good middle ground.

 

[Rprecision]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

I was kind of leaning towards a Noveske 18" Switchblock

But I need to look at the other options

 

[neal0124]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

My 18" upper shooting 77's will hit an 18" piece of steel at 750 yards with ease. Haven't shot it further than that though.

 

[lessthanfour]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

not trying to hijack the thread but i believe this is relevant, what works better at longer ranges the heavy or light bullets? on my ballistic calculator the light ones drop less but for some reason i think a 40 grain wouldn't fly as well as a 52 out at longer ranges despite the enhanced speed

 

[SgtKope]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

Heavy bullets for long range.

 

[Sherman]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rprecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was kind of leaning towards a Noveske 18" Switchblock

</div></div>

My Noveske 18" shoots 69 75 and 77's very well. Only shot it to 500 but no issues at all at that range.

 

[lessthanfour]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

what speeds are you getting out of your 69s?

 

[OutlawTen5]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

I've got an 18" SPR from these guys www.specializeddynamics.com
and it is BAD ASS!

My Specialized Dynamics 18"SPR is a 1/8 twist barrel from Rock Creek and out performs my Noveske N4 18" 1/7 twist using 62gr to 80gr bullets. I have not run it past 800 yards.

 

[johngfoster]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

Here's my Mk12 mod0 (18" 1:7 twist):

And here is a 12" x 16" steel target shot @ 660yd with 77gr SMK. It was a piece of cake.

 

[frankythefly]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

I really like my 20inch Krieger 1:7.7 twist, wylde chamber. I have shot 77grn Black hills out to 1000yds hitting the target, that is until the 35-45mph wind gusts. It does as well as my TRG when shooting up to 600yds anything past that the TRG shoots better.

 

[Jon Lester]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

E Type size Steel @ 840 with my Predator Customs built Sheiln tube @18" running 77s, has been done a lot by most in the Family including the kids.

 

[jbailey]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rprecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have played with my 24" upper before out to around 700 yards and was disapointed. being a 1/9 twist I couldnt shoot anything much past 60 grain slugs.
</div></div>

Are you sure its really a 9 twist? 9 twist should have no problems, even with a 77gr SMK. You might have a 12 twist....

I have had my 20" Noveske out at 1000yds and had no problem keeping 70gr Berger VLDs in the 7-8 ring of a F-class target. The 70gr Bergers were doing 2950fps at muzzle in 500ft D.A. Had this same Noveske load vs steel at 800-900 and didn't have problems consistently hitting 18" steel on first shots. Wind will treat you rough, but its a great learning experience!

Best of luck!

 

[Rprecision]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

Thanks for all the great replies

It a 1/9 twist bushmaster 24" v-match rifle. I have confirmed its that twist with a cleaning rod.

Seems that 1/7 or 1/8 is the ticket

 

[ccoker]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

I have a 18" PRI built upper, Douglas stainless match 1 in 8 barrel, 5.56 chamber

750 is pretty easy with 77g OTM 5.56 loads or .223 loads
I am taking it out tomorrow, been a while since I shot it

 

[splean]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

I had a 1-9 20" model one SPR type upper that shot 52gr and 69gr SMKs very well. The 69gr shot out to 600 yards easy enough. I now have a 20" 1-7 WOA DMR that shoots 77gr SMK well. If I were building I would probably go 1-8. Good luck.

 

[1911nbmore]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

I can on chest size plates out to 800 yards pretty easy with M12 clone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBvl_D_GVT0

 

[308sako]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

I have run the melonited Rock Creek 1 in 8 out to beyond 900 yards at 3200 ASL, 77 SMK's at 2800 ft/sec with IMR 8208 XBR. It's a Wylde chambered 5R barrel. XBR drives the 69 SMK to 2900 in this barrel, while free bore boost amounts to about 15 ft/secs.

 

[Rando]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

Rprecision- IMO your current setup is fine, don't be afraid to spend the time to tune-up the loads and I think it'll pay dividends. 69s will sing in a 1:9 if properly setup. and the BCs are good enough to play past 650. good luck. stay colorado !!

 

[Rprecision]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

Thanks for all the replies,

I think I need to revist what I got when the temps warm up

 

[Ro_Bird]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

Yeah you are defiantly going to want to get yourself a 1-7 or 1-8 twist. I picked up a Douglas from HCS last year for my MK12 Mod X project and I couldn't be happier. MK262 was pushing 2780ish. First round hits at 800 meters on standard E-types is fairly common as long as the winds were reasonable. Had a chance to run it all the way out to 1200 meters and it did well till about 1150ish by then it was fully into transonic flight and I was only get about 50% hit ratio at 1200m. The 77SMK will really get out there but you really have to be on the ball with the wind.

 

[vprtoad]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

Well my good friend has a "SPR-ish MRK whatever MOD whatever 18"

with 77 smks out to 800 was no problem at all

never missed the KYL at 200 went to 300 400 500 600 700 then wacked the 800 a few times
Geislle trigger and a suppressor make it an "all day long" type of gun to shoot

problem is now I want one as well

 

[Inogame]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vprtoad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">problem is now I want one as well </div></div>


Sounds more like a solution to me.

 

[jvencius]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vprtoad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
problem is now I want one as well</div></div>

Correction sir--you misspelled "opportunity" as "problem"...

 

[vprtoad]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

Well said and funny !!!

I need to tell my bank account about the "opportunity"

 

[-=boone=-]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

We walked my AR out to 1200 yards with a 77SMK.

 

[RicosRevenge]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

My 18" Kreiger 5.56 Wylde runs the 77 Black Hills Match out to 600 without issue. Haven't tried from 601-1000 with it though! The .308 gets the nod for that.

 

[vprtoad]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vprtoad</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well my good friend has a "SPR-ish MRK whatever MOD whatever 18"

with 77 smks out to 800 was no problem at all

never missed the KYL at 200 went to 300 400 500 600 700 then wacked the 800 a few times
Geislle trigger and a suppressor make it an "all day long" type of gun to shoot

problem is now I want one as well </div></div>

Took the same rig and got hits on steel at 1000 yesterday
No problem
Conditions were good
Very very fun rig to use

 

[Ring]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rprecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was kind of leaning towards a Noveske 18" Switchblock

But I need to look at the other options

</div></div>

BCM DMR

 

[DP425]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rprecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for all the replies,

I think I need to revist what I got when the temps warm up

</div></div>

Speed is also a factor to stabilizing the bullet- how fast were you sending those 68/69gr slugs? What kind of bullet?? Since bullet shape is more of a factor to required spin and velocity than simply the weight.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rprecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for all the replies,

I think I need to revist what I got when the temps warm up

</div></div>

First, what loads are you using? Most people I know handloading a .223/5.56 for a gas gun don't get the loads up to snuff for a 77gr. bullet to stabilize. The 68/69/70's should all stabilize. Most loads I see for sale are loaded to .223 pressures.

IMO, if you are going to push these hard with a 77 gr. bullet, you need a 5.56 chamber or at least a Wylde chamber. In most cases the .223 chamber won't allow enough pressure before popping primers to get the 77's to work.

If you do change barrels, all you need to do is go to a 1-8" twist. That will stabilize the heaviest bullet you can run through an AR15 magazine. If you want to go heavier then go to a 1-7" twist. But, count on single feeding them.

Anyways, as you noted the keyholing means the bullets aren't stabilizing. With a 1-9" twist, I'm thinking it's because they aren't pushed hard enough. Change the speed factor first if you can. If not go to the 1-8" twist barrel.

You can at that point, make up whatever excuse you want to, to go as expensive as you want to. But, any of the standard names will serve you just fine.

 

[SHO~BIZ308]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

nice advice guys

 

[Rprecision]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rprecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for all the replies,

I think I need to revist what I got when the temps warm up

</div></div>

First, what loads are you using? Most people I know handloading a .223/5.56 for a gas gun don't get the loads up to snuff for a 77gr. bullet to stabilize. The 68/69/70's should all stabilize. Most loads I see for sale are loaded to .223 pressures.

IMO, if you are going to push these hard with a 77 gr. bullet, you need a 5.56 chamber or at least a Wylde chamber. In most cases the .223 chamber won't allow enough pressure before popping primers to get the 77's to work.

If you do change barrels, all you need to do is go to a 1-8" twist. That will stabilize the heaviest bullet you can run through an AR15 magazine. If you want to go heavier then go to a 1-7" twist. But, count on single feeding them.

Anyways, as you noted the keyholing means the bullets aren't stabilizing. With a 1-9" twist, I'm thinking it's because they aren't pushed hard enough. Change the speed factor first if you can. If not go to the 1-8" twist barrel.

You can at that point, make up whatever excuse you want to, to go as expensive as you want to. But, any of the standard names will serve you just fine.</div></div>

you may very well be right. I tried some 69 gr Hornady's and never really went back to them.

What kind of velocity should I be chasing ? I didnt have a chronograph back then.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

Rprecision,

With a 16" barrel I'm getting 2690 fps with both 75 gr. and 77 gr. bullets. With the extra 2" at that loading I would expect 100 fps more so, 2800 fps.

Do remember it's not straight across. Like you always get "X" more velocity when adding barrel length. In some cases it's minimal and other cases it gives quite a lot. In this case, it's at that critical sort of stage where you get lot more. More than say, if you added 2" to a 24" barrel. Because the powder/pressure has already done it's thing by then. At the 16" to 18" range, you are wringing out almost the last big surge you can get. By going to 20" and 24" you'd still be gaining but not by near as much in comparison.

 

[Lawrence]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

Had a guy this fall that took my long range clinic this fall with a 18" carbine hitting a 12" plate @ 600 yds. W/55 grainers & a "Cheaper than Dirt" parted up Bushmaster,& a crap scope, but he listened. I wanted to take him further, but the weather got us & he called it quits. So the point being is, How far is "your" ability???

 

[Lawrence]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

oops, ment 16" BBL

 

[BCP]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rprecision,

With a 16" barrel I'm getting 2690 fps with both 75 gr. and 77 gr. bullets. </div></div>

What load? Pretty good for 16.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Whats a 5.56/.223 limits out of a 18"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rprecision,

With a 16" barrel I'm getting 2690 fps with both 75 gr. and 77 gr. bullets. </div></div>

What load? Pretty good for 16.</div></div>

25.5 gr. of RE-15. <span style="text-decoration: underline"> Do not shoot, or even work up to this, from a .223 chamber!</span> 5.56 chamber only.

Added: the max load combo that I have in my <span style="text-decoration: underline">.223</span> for this is 25 gr. of RE-15 behind a 75-77 gr. bullet.