What's going on???

[Gun_Guru]

I took my rifle out today for the first time to break it in and get some groups on paper. Rifle is a bighorn Tl3 , bartlien heavy palma 6.5 creedmoor 24", manners elite t6a, trigger tech blah blah blah ... All best of the best. I did a proper barrel break in . I tested hornady 147 m, 140m, 143 eldx, hsm 140 vld hybrids , nosler 140 otm, nosler 140 accubond. All of them were showing high pressure. The rifle wouldn't not group any better them 1-1 1/2 " @ 100 yards. I have been shooting bolt guns for years. I even shot a few of my other rifles to make sure I wasn't having a off day. I got frustrated and streched a few others guns out to distance. When I went back to shooting the new rifle I had zero signs of pressure!!! As ammo , same boxes .... But groups still not there.. Any ideas what the tits is going on ??

 

[Gun_Guru]

I will add bolt was not heavy to close .. During high pressure heavy lift tho.

 

[Bender]

Hmmm. Odd. Following

 

[razzle]

Have you checked that your scope mount screws are properly tightened? This happened to me once at a match, the scope was sliding around in the picatinny slot. They were clamped down enough to stay on the rail luckily.

 

[Precision Underground]

I assume you mean propper beak in by cleaning between rounds. My guess on the pressure is the chamber was not wiped clean. That can cause pressure for sure. Accuracy is anyone’s guess other than the standard “are you sure our scope base is tight, etc...”

 

[.50 Cal Cow]

Shooting with the can on? And was it moist, damp or wet?

 

[Precision Underground]

What was your break in procedure? What did you use and how often?

 

[spife7980]

I assume you mean propper beak in by cleaning between rounds. My guess on the pressure is the chamber was not wiped clean. That can cause pressure for sure. Accuracy is anyone’s guess other than the standard “are you sure our scope base is tight, etc...”

This was what I was going to post so... x2

As for the groups? Thats why we reload.

 

[Gun_Guru]

Have you checked that your scope mount screws are properly tightened? This happened to me once at a match, the scope was sliding around in the picatinny slot. They were clamped down enough to stay on the rail luckily.

Yes scope base torqed to 50 inch lbs, badger rings ( cross bolt to 65 inch lbs) and rings at 22 inch lbs

 

[Gun_Guru]

I assume you mean propper beak in by cleaning between rounds. My guess on the pressure is the chamber was not wiped clean. That can cause pressure for sure. Accuracy is anyone’s guess other than the standard “are you sure our scope base is tight, etc...”

Yes I fired one shot the removed copper. Did that 3 times ( wiping chamber dry after every cleaning ). Then went to 3 shot groups then cleaning .

 

[Gun_Guru]

Shooting with the can on? And was it moist, damp or wet?

Yes all shot were with suppressor except the first 3 single shots then first 2 3 round groups . It was 72 degrees , 80% humidity and been raining here for 1 week. Got a break in the rain so went shooting

 

[SuperSneakySniper]

Hmm. I had an issue like this with a semi-custom last year. Found out a lense in my scope was knocked loose and it was making my groups average 2 inches. Had to get it replaced.

Maybe run a couple more dry patches through, then swap scopes and see if it changes anything.
If that doesnt work, is it a manners mini chassis? If so id re-install the action to the stock and ensure theres no funny business going on in there.

Im just spitballing here. Theres not as much that can go wrong with a bolt action so this is a mind boggler for sure. Best of luck and keep up posted!

 

[Gun_Guru]

This was what I was going to post so... x2

As for the groups? Thats why we reload.

I hand load as well. I normally break them in with factory loads then startu work up. I shot all the same ammo in 2 other guns and have all under 3/4 groups average being 1/2.

 

[Precision Underground]

Yes I fired one shot the removed copper. Did that 3 times ( wiping chamber dry after every cleaning ). Then went to 3 shot groups then cleaning .

I would clean it good and make sure everything’s is wiped clean, chamber mop the crap out if it once you remove the guide. Then go shoot. I’m in the camp that says there is no need to break in a hand lapped barrel and you will likely do more harm than good trying to shoot/clean/shoot/clean/shoot clean. The barrel will prob settle down once it gets a few shots through it. If you were cleaning between all of those 3 shot groups I would say that was prob your issue.

 

[Gun_Guru]

Hmm. I had an issue like this with a semi-custom last year. Found out a lense in my scope was knocked loose and it was making my groups average 2 inches. Had to get it replaced.

Maybe run a couple more dry patches through, then swap scopes and see if it changes anything.
If that doesnt work, is it a manners mini chassis? If so id re-install the action to the stock and ensure theres no funny business going on in there.

Im just spitballing here. Theres not as much that can go wrong with a bolt action so this is a mind boggler for sure. Best of luck and keep up posted!

Brand new AtacR 7-35. I took it off and threw it on my 6.5x47 to check scope and was perfect . And it's not a mini chassis . Glass bedded.

 

[Gun_Guru]

I would clean it good and make sure everything’s is wiped clean, chamber mop the crap out if it once you remove the guide. Then go shoot. I’m in the camp that says there is no need to break in a hand lapped barrel and you will likely do more harm than good trying to shoot/clean/shoot/clean/shoot clean. The barrel will prob settle down once it gets a few shots through it. If you were cleaning between all of those 3 shot groups I would say that was prob your issue.

I agree on break in. I shoot 3 single shots then 2 3 shot groups and off to the races . After that I shot 80 rounds with no cleaning . I don't clean my rifles Until they need it.. ( obv I manage carbon in chamber ext)

 

[Precision Underground]

I agree on break in. I shoot 3 single shots then 2 3 shot groups and off to the races . After that I shot 80 rounds with no cleaning . I don't clean my rifles Until they need it.. ( obv I manage carbon in chamber ext)

Ahh I see. I thought you meant you cleaned between them all. Hard to say man other than start trying to track down what is going on. That’s always fun isn’t it lol. Although it’s always pretty satisfying when you finally find out what it is and start making tiny hole groups. The thing should shoot even with factory ammo. My 6.5 shoots hornady loads almost as good as handloads.

 

[Gun_Guru]

Ahh I see. I thought you meant you cleaned between them all. Hard to say man other than start trying to track down what is going on. That’s always fun isn’t it lol. Although it’s always pretty satisfying when you finally find out what it is and start making tiny hole groups. The thing should shoot even with factory ammo. My 6.5 shoots hornady loads almost as good as handloads.

I agree with you on the factory ammo. I have over 14 precsion rifles and all of them shoot 1/2" groups with a handful of differnt factory ammo. I already talked to mark at Spartan Precsion about it. He's a solid guy and said he will look it over I just want to avoid another 2-3 week wait if I can .

 

[.50 Cal Cow]

Yes all shot were with suppressor except the first 3 single shots then first 2 3 round groups . It was 72 degrees , 80% humidity and been raining here for 1 week. Got a break in the rain so went shooting

Ive experienced similar case head marks with my can on sometimes when its been similarly moist out or when its extreme cold and i dont let the gases dissipate from the chamber. The primers always end up looking, just fine like yours, and not much in the way of hard bolt lift, just like yours. When cans off goes away so i just end up living with the case marks and dont think twice. Try shooting with the can off next time when you experience it and see if it goes away.

Funny you mention it went away when you went back. Did the humidity/weather change? Did you shoot a little slower rate of fire with more breaks in between that you remember?

Did you get velocities? Barring any crazy velocities or anything else unforeseen unmentioned if it were me I would just keep shooting and keeping observing to see if things get better or worse. But again, if it were me.

 

[Gun_Guru]

Ive experienced similar case head marks with my can on sometimes when its been similarly moist out or when its extreme cold and i dont let the gases dissipate from the chamber. The primers always end up looking, just fine like yours, and not much in the way of hard bolt lift, just like yours. When cans off goes away so i just end up living with the case marks and dont think twice. Try shooting with the can off next time when you experience it and see if it goes away.

Funny you mention it went away when you went back. Did the humidity/weather change? Did you shoot a little slower rate of fire with more breaks in between that you remember?

Did you get velocities? Barring any crazy velocities or anything else unforeseen unmentioned if it were me I would just keep shooting and keeping observing to see if things get better or worse. But again, if it were me.

I did take the suppressor off when I took a break and then put it back on. I did throw on the magneto speed and I didn't have any spikes or anything that looked weird

 

[Dthomas3523]

How many total rounds through the barrel so far?

 

[Gun_Guru]

How many total rounds through the barrel so far?

89

 

[djarecke]

89

If you’re certain that the barrel is dry when you’re shooting, I’d check the seating depth on a few of the bullets you’re trying. I suspect that the rifle may have an extremely short throat, and that your bullet is being jammed after you chamber it. Can you chamber a round and then extract it without the bullet getting stuck in the barrel?

Impossible you say? One of the best builders in the country did this on my $4500 build and when he got it back, he couldn’t believe it.

 

[b6graham]

If you’re certain that the barrel is dry when you’re shooting, I’d check the seating depth on a few of the bullets you’re trying. I suspect that the rifle may have an extremely short throat, and that your bullet is being jammed after you chamber it. Can you chamber a round and then extract it without the bullet getting stuck in the barrel?

Impossible you say? One of the best builders in the country did this on my $4500 build and when he got it back, he couldn’t believe it.

a whole lot of this.

since you reload, i'd find a measurement to the lands and compare to the factory ammo. i'd guess it's a wee bit short or chambered for maybe the prime 130s for example

 

[jimmykm21]

The old sharpie method, not fancy but works everytime

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Yes scope base torqed to 50 inch lbs, badger rings ( cross bolt to 65 inch lbs) and rings at 22 inch lbs

Well, they are definitely on there

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Don't forget to check for hotspots. Everything should free float where it is supposed to, no space between lug and stock, lug not rocking in the stock, and so forth.

On the facetious side take a tuning fork and tap along the barrel for any out of tune dead zones. Harmonics are crucial. You can tune a piano but you can't tuna fish. Tuna barrels not good. Once that is resolved, a node meter will find the m/s barrel timing you need. Very very very important.

 

[Sig Marine]

Not that this is your problem but you might want to check the specs on the recommended torque setting on your scope base...Bighorn says 22-25 in/lbs.

 

[Precision Underground]

If you’re certain that the barrel is dry when you’re shooting, I’d check the seating depth on a few of the bullets you’re trying. I suspect that the rifle may have an extremely short throat, and that your bullet is being jammed after you chamber it. Can you chamber a round and then extract it without the bullet getting stuck in the barrel?

Impossible you say? One of the best builders in the country did this on my $4500 build and when he got it back, he couldn’t believe it.

Doubtful that his pressure issue would just vanish like it did if this were the case.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Pressure went away after he quit dicking around with a wet barrel break in.

 

[djarecke]

Good call. I missed that part of the post where the pressure went away. It sure does sound like a wet chamber...

 

[Hawk in WY]

Odd things happen to bullets when passing through a loose suppressor or ever a suppressor with a cover that extends beyond the end of the can.

 

[Gun_Guru]

Not that this is your problem but you might want to check the specs on the recommended torque setting on your scope base...Bighorn says 22-25 in/lbs.

Well that's good to know... I really should start reading lol

 

[Gun_Guru]

Odd things happen to bullets when passing through a loose suppressor or ever a suppressor with a cover that extends beyond the end of the can.

I'm always checking to make sure it's not lose , and I make sure the cover never gets near the start of the anchor break( end of my omega )

 

[Gun_Guru]

Good call. I missed that part of the post where the pressure went away. It sure does sound like a wet chamber...

I thought the same at first. Ran 10 dry patches and swabbed chamber until it was as dry as Hilary's vag...

 

[JeffLebowski]

In other words, the “proper break in” didn’t help?

 

[Gun_Guru]

In other words, the “proper break in” didn’t help?

I'm not one to claim barrel breakin is needed on good barrels or does it help, but I also think it can't hurt

 

[JeffLebowski]

I'm not one to claim barrel breakin is needed on good barrels or does it help, but I also think it can't hurt

It hurts more than it helps.

 

[Gun_Guru]

It hurts more than it helps.

How so?

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Mainly, because it a colossal waste of time and resources. This thread being just one example on your journey into the Alice in Wonderland world of troubleshooting your rifle. Add checking the crown from the Mad Hatter.

 

[Openingday]

So I have a similar build. In Feb I was at JP Blue Steel with Brian Whalen taking his PR1 class. I had about 150 rounds through my Bartlein barrel and was getting 1-1.25” groups at 100 yds. So, I had Brian shoot it - same result. I shot his Valkerie and was around 1/2”. So, I too was trying to figure out what the heck. I kept shooting it that Friday - probably another 30-40 rounds. The next morning we went back out to check zeros, and I shot a 3/8” group, and it stayed that way from then on. Moral of the story is that all we could surmise is that I was still breaking in the barrel up to around 200 rounds. So, if everything else looks right and checks out, just keep putting lead through it and see if yours has a similar result.

 

[arm017]

You still have the brass? What about some pictures of the necks?
I would scope it- a chamber burr is the first thing that comes to my mind after reading through your thought process / troubleshooting

 

[Deleted member 10043]

What the master jumper said is good. A strip of paper helps clinched between the action and stock. Loosen front screw just a little to see if the paper loses all its grip.

 

[JeffLebowski]

I'm not one to claim barrel breakin is needed on good barrels or does it help, but I also think it can't hurt

Sacrificing a chicken can’t hurt either, why don’t you do that?

Lowlight once wrote about a pair of Sako TRGs he had. He broke one’s barrel in, cleaned that one, etc and on the other one, didn’t do any of that. He said they shot indenticaly for thousands of rounds.

 

[ShtrRdy]

I also think that barrel break in doesn't hurt. It's not so much an accuracy improvement but rather makes it easier to clean.

 

[Gun_Guru]

Sacrificing a chicken can’t hurt either, why don’t you do that?

Lowlight once wrote about a pair of Sako TRGs he had. He broke one’s barrel in, cleaned that one, etc and on the other one, didn’t do any of that. He said they shot indenticaly for thousands of rounds.

So you claimed it did more harm then good , then you refer to a test that proved it was a identical outcome . Maybe I'll sacrifice a chicken to understand your logic .

 

[XLR308]

So you claimed it did more harm then good , then you refer to a test that proved it was a identical outcome . Maybe I'll sacrifice a chicken to understand your logic .

With the risk of putting my foot in my mouth I feel he was trying to iterate that many with less experience than Lowlight do more harm than good while trying to follow extensive barrel break in procedures.

With the proper equipment and sound technique there "should" be no harm done but many aren't as knowledgeable or skilled and do more harm than good.