Sidearms & Scatterguns What's the standard for an accurate pistol
- Thread starter Sniperwannabee
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Sub 2 inches at 25? I would think that pretty damn good.
Unless your spending $3k+ on a 1911 then its 1 inch at 50 or 100.
Unless your spending $3k+ on a 1911 then its 1 inch at 50 or 100.
There is no standard. What is the intended purpose of the pistol? 5" at 25 is quite acceptable for real world use. None I've ever seen or used are that inaccurate. The G19M averages about 1.37" (or close enough, if I'm remembering slightly wrong) at 25. Most other glocks will be worse, but not terribly so.
Any classic Sig/Beretta/HK should be a fair bit under 2" at 25. Most of mine will do a bit over an inch. My most accurate duty grade 1911's will claim 2" at 50, but I haven't seen that yet. None of them will do an inch at 100, under any circumstance. Some revolvers will, but no normal service type pistol, regardless of cost, will match that.
A full house custom Bianchi open gun will typically do 2" at 50 as well, but some of them will do an inch or even better at the same distance. Those are rare guns, suitable for one purpose only, and cost much more then $3000, if you can even get one built.
Any classic Sig/Beretta/HK should be a fair bit under 2" at 25. Most of mine will do a bit over an inch. My most accurate duty grade 1911's will claim 2" at 50, but I haven't seen that yet. None of them will do an inch at 100, under any circumstance. Some revolvers will, but no normal service type pistol, regardless of cost, will match that.
A full house custom Bianchi open gun will typically do 2" at 50 as well, but some of them will do an inch or even better at the same distance. Those are rare guns, suitable for one purpose only, and cost much more then $3000, if you can even get one built.
Accuracy in a pistol is wonderful, but reliability is more important to me. I would prefer a CCW pistol that is 100% reliable and shoots 4" at 25 yards , over one that shoots 2" and is 98% reliable. It is is only a match shooting pistol, then an occasional bobble from the pistol is more acceptable.
With all that said, there is no excuse for a pistol that isn't reliable. If they aren't reliable, I'll get rid of them, because regular malfunctions means something is wrong with the pistol or it's magazine.
With all that said, there is no excuse for a pistol that isn't reliable. If they aren't reliable, I'll get rid of them, because regular malfunctions means something is wrong with the pistol or it's magazine.
99% of pistols out there will be capable of better accuracy than the shooter.
What's the standard for an accurate pistol
The shooter,...
The shooter,...
The reason I ask is because I have a full size m& p and people are telling they suck and are super inaccurate yet it has over a thousand rounds with no failures and it hangs with all the glocks cz hk etc during local comps so I was going to try to test it myself to see what it comes out as
I'm far from a master pistol shooter and can count the times I've "grouped" a pistol on one hand. While I do believe shooter error plays a larger roll than in rifles, I have seen that some pistols that I do believe are more accurate then others, and some are easier to shoot accurately than others. I'm not aware of any "standards" though.
FWIW, here's a pic of 20+ rounds (full mag, however many it is) of 147 HST fired from my DVC Tactical pictured at 25 yards. This is probably the easiest shooting pistol I've ever owned. This wasn't intended to be a group, it was just to test POA shift with the can on and after stacking a few through basically the same hole I couldn't stop until the gun was dry. That's a 3" paster.
FWIW, here's a pic of 20+ rounds (full mag, however many it is) of 147 HST fired from my DVC Tactical pictured at 25 yards. This is probably the easiest shooting pistol I've ever owned. This wasn't intended to be a group, it was just to test POA shift with the can on and after stacking a few through basically the same hole I couldn't stop until the gun was dry. That's a 3" paster.
I would agree that pistol accuracy isn't generally going to be a factor for you unless you're doing something like shooting a bulleye pistol match and need every last millimeter you can get.
The times where you'll fire a pistol from a rest to check accuracy will be far and few between, you might do it once in a while just to double check your zero if you change ammo lots, models, or brands. When shooting with one or two hands unsupported not even the best olympic shooters can outshoot their guns.
The world record score for 50m free pistol is a 583 (out of 600 total) and world class shooting is a 570. The 10 ring is an approximately 2" circle, meaning quite literally the best in the world can not shoot consistent 2" groups with the best free pistols on the market (which isn't even close to the kind of pistol most people shoot). The world record for 25m centerfire pistol is still only a 595, using the same target as the 50m free pistol event.
If your gun groups at under 2" at 25 yards that is almost certainly better than you will ever be able to shoot. That's not to say you couldn't potentially shoot slightly better with a more accurate pistol, but the primary thing holding you back won't be the gun. Most decent pistols are capable of this accuracy, however. Even my Ruger Mark IV, a pretty inexpensive rimfire pistol, can shoot sub 2" groups at 25 yards if I shoot with a red dot from a rest.
The times where you'll fire a pistol from a rest to check accuracy will be far and few between, you might do it once in a while just to double check your zero if you change ammo lots, models, or brands. When shooting with one or two hands unsupported not even the best olympic shooters can outshoot their guns.
The world record score for 50m free pistol is a 583 (out of 600 total) and world class shooting is a 570. The 10 ring is an approximately 2" circle, meaning quite literally the best in the world can not shoot consistent 2" groups with the best free pistols on the market (which isn't even close to the kind of pistol most people shoot). The world record for 25m centerfire pistol is still only a 595, using the same target as the 50m free pistol event.
If your gun groups at under 2" at 25 yards that is almost certainly better than you will ever be able to shoot. That's not to say you couldn't potentially shoot slightly better with a more accurate pistol, but the primary thing holding you back won't be the gun. Most decent pistols are capable of this accuracy, however. Even my Ruger Mark IV, a pretty inexpensive rimfire pistol, can shoot sub 2" groups at 25 yards if I shoot with a red dot from a rest.
I’m a NRA High Master bullseye pistol shooter. I use a Hamerlli 208s in the .22 matches , it shoots as well as most .22 rifles at 50 yards in a ransom rest. For the centerfire and .45 matches I use a full custom Caspian 1911 that shoots about 1” at 50 yards. In the service pistol class I shoot a 1911 and sometimes a highly modified Berreta model 92. Both shoot about 1.5” at 50 yards. But none of these are daily carry guns for sure.
I carry either a Springfield XDS 9mm or .45.
I’ve never tested them in a ransom rest but they shoot more than acceptable in my hand. My Glock 17, Glock 19, Springfield XD .45 and XDM 9mm all easily shoot 2” at 25 yards which is very acceptable and still 100% reliable .
The tight tolerance required to achieve match grade accuracy will affect reliability so it’s not a good idea to use a tight match gun as a carry gun in my opinion .
I carry either a Springfield XDS 9mm or .45.
I’ve never tested them in a ransom rest but they shoot more than acceptable in my hand. My Glock 17, Glock 19, Springfield XD .45 and XDM 9mm all easily shoot 2” at 25 yards which is very acceptable and still 100% reliable .
The tight tolerance required to achieve match grade accuracy will affect reliability so it’s not a good idea to use a tight match gun as a carry gun in my opinion .
I think certain pistols are more accurate due to low bore sight design. Due to recoil I think lighter recoil is going to be easier to get better with quicker. I personally prefer the 1911 platform in reduced 45acp loads and 38 super. The FS92 is also extremely accurate in 9mm. Shooting 9 out of 10 1" dots from a standing positon is fairly easily obtainable with practice from 25' away.
I personally can not shoot any other platform pistol as well , except a .22 caliber pistol.
I personally can not shoot any other platform pistol as well , except a .22 caliber pistol.
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Start at 5-7 yards and get out to 30. Personally, I feel 30 yards is the standard. I used to think 50, but I'm staying with 30.
For me a Glock just about does it out of the box. I'm not a big pistolero, but I can use one. I suppose the "standard" should be the IPSC or IDPA (confused right now, one or the other). If you can move from station to station and put all rounds in the targets without missing, then that's the standard.
Whether you agree or not, that WILL be the standard your ass will be held to during any real shooting. Train like you fight.
Whether you agree or not, that WILL be the standard your ass will be held to during any real shooting. Train like you fight.
USPSA Grandmaster here. For an iron sighted production pistol I like something around 1.5 inches at 25 yards just for wiggle room on long and/or tight shots. That said, I shot on a squad with Dave Sevigny (13 time USPSA National Champion), and with Randi Rogers (multiple women's national campion), and both of them handed me my ass with stock pistols (other than sights and trigger jobs) that probably shot no better than my pistol.
As for an M&P, the only drawback that I am aware of is some of the internals wore out or were prone to breakage on early models under hard use. Some of the folks shooting 5,000+ rounds a month had to keep a close eye on parts replacement. FWIW, the M&P seems to work for the Miculek family (Jerry, Lena, Kay), Randi Roberts, David Olhasso...
As for an M&P, the only drawback that I am aware of is some of the internals wore out or were prone to breakage on early models under hard use. Some of the folks shooting 5,000+ rounds a month had to keep a close eye on parts replacement. FWIW, the M&P seems to work for the Miculek family (Jerry, Lena, Kay), Randi Roberts, David Olhasso...
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