- Thread starter jzerfoss
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Hey Rob just curious because you are sponsored by Vortex are you allowed to use any other brand in competition if you wanted to? Or are you contractually obligated to use Vortex only?
I can use whatever I want but if I find something that works there is no reason to change. And on the flip side if something doesn't work I won't use it just because of the name on the product.
Last year, I’ve used them for about 5 days straight shooting prairie dogs. They’re awesome! Not quite as fast ranging as my Leupold 2800, maybe not as far either, but way farther than I plan on shooting. Out of three steps (finding, ranging, scoping/shooting), having the ability to combine the first two steps is huge.
My excellent Leupold 2800 is gathering dust.
My excellent Leupold 2800 is gathering dust.
I concur on eye relief alone.
I am massively nearsighted (-10.5) and am very sensitive to eye relief issues, but yet I have no problem with the 5000. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ As ever YMMV.
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Comparing the Vortex Fury 5000 vs the Sig Kilo 3000 BDX, the basic binoculars and LRF seem to be nearly identical, almost certainly built in the same factory.
I haven't heard of huge differences in the glass but both are good if not absolutely top tier as binoculars.
It seems like the main difference between them is electronics and the intangible benefit of a longer warranty on the Vortex.
For me, the electronics made the difference. I want the connection and integration so that I can remove an item from my load out and deal with one or two less items when using it so I bought the Sig Kilo 3000 BDX.
Now if Vortex added Bluetooth that could connect with a 4DOF Kestrel so that you don't need to pay for Applied Ballistics Elite software, I might forget about wanting to try it with a BDX scope and choose the Fury instead but so far that doesn't exist.
I haven't heard of huge differences in the glass but both are good if not absolutely top tier as binoculars.
It seems like the main difference between them is electronics and the intangible benefit of a longer warranty on the Vortex.
For me, the electronics made the difference. I want the connection and integration so that I can remove an item from my load out and deal with one or two less items when using it so I bought the Sig Kilo 3000 BDX.
Now if Vortex added Bluetooth that could connect with a 4DOF Kestrel so that you don't need to pay for Applied Ballistics Elite software, I might forget about wanting to try it with a BDX scope and choose the Fury instead but so far that doesn't exist.
These are on my buy list.
I’ll be comparing them to my Leica 2800.coms
I’ll be comparing them to my Leica 2800.coms
I bought a set. At first light and last light they are lacking. I bought the new Leica he 300 when they were on sale for 1999 andhave compared them for about 20 total hunting days. The range finder is about the same. The glass is in real lacking. Save your money.
I bought the fury 5000 when they first came out. I have been really happy with them. I was on course with a buddy who had the Vectronix x and it performed just as far out as my 5000 in terrible conditions. In a heavy snow storm I could not get them to range, but I did not bring anything else to compare them to. But they have worked as advertised. They are super heavy but the warranty covers the electronics which is why I went with them over something else.
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I wonder how the Leica 3200's do at distance in the snow?
I haven't found a LRF yet that works in heavy snow. It disrupts the laser too much.
I don't have any real high end LRF binos to compare to, but I compared them to my buddies Zeiss that aren't range finding. The glass on the Furys is pretty good. The Zeiss is definitely better. That being said the Zeiss were $2k on sale and don't have a LRF. The Fury's were easily and quickly ranging horses near my property at 1500+/- yards. I couldn't find any animals further away then that to see how far they would range them.
I'm pretty happy with the purchase personally and I think they're going to be great for coyote calling. They are a touch heavy with the added electronics and battery, but they don't feel bad in a harness. I went with the Vortex because I like how they take care of you if you ever have a problem.
I'm pretty happy with the purchase personally and I think they're going to be great for coyote calling. They are a touch heavy with the added electronics and battery, but they don't feel bad in a harness. I went with the Vortex because I like how they take care of you if you ever have a problem.
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There are several optics companies that have taken care of me when their products have failed. Customer service is wonderful.
But I'd really rather not have problems.
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There are several optics companies that have taken care of me when their products have failed. Customer service is wonderful.
But I'd really rather not have problems.
And most don't with Vortex but when they do they are treated well. That can not be said for every company and a lot of companies have upped they customer service due to Vortex.
I concur, Vortex has changed the game. I remember the old days of Burris. Just like that Tommy Boy clip. Things have changed and almost everyone has a good service program if not straight out replacement.
My buddy had a set of Fury’s for that’s years Moose hunt. They had good glass but we couldn’t get a reading on a moose standing 180 yards away. Never figured out why. They worked on trees to about 500 after that but were really hit and miss. I was eyeballing them hard, but after that I’m a little gunshy.
I have used Vortex customer service multiple times. The odds are very high they will do the right thing.
Using a brand new Fury 5000 and a Sig BDX last year to set up 20 stages at a PRS match, the Sig was far more consistent.
Apparently the Vortex doesnt like sagebrush, or gradual slopes. We only got good hits running it into solid berms. So we stuck with the Sig for all our target distances.
I do think the Vortex is a nice gig though. It's a very good hunting combo.
Apparently the Vortex doesnt like sagebrush, or gradual slopes. We only got good hits running it into solid berms. So we stuck with the Sig for all our target distances.
I do think the Vortex is a nice gig though. It's a very good hunting combo.
The biggest problem I see with having your range finder attached to your binoculars is that at some point the range finder is going to shit itself.
I have a $1000 pair of binoculars, and a $500 rangefinder. If I had bought a LRF Bino, and the range finder shit itself I would have an expensive pair of heavy binos and still have to pack a LRF.
I caught hell in Germany as everyone in our group had a dual system except me. I can see the merit in speed, but never found wanting in how quick it was to shoot something with a LRF that I keep in the same chest rig as the binos.
I have a $1000 pair of binoculars, and a $500 rangefinder. If I had bought a LRF Bino, and the range finder shit itself I would have an expensive pair of heavy binos and still have to pack a LRF.
I caught hell in Germany as everyone in our group had a dual system except me. I can see the merit in speed, but never found wanting in how quick it was to shoot something with a LRF that I keep in the same chest rig as the binos.
For redundancy I carry the Fury 5000 and Sig 2400 ABS. Best of all worlds.
If you have a static target that is easy to “find/re-find” three times (binos, LRF, then scope) then yeah, no big deal. Especially if you have a relaxed or non-existent time constraint.
In a relatively featureless landscape, if you have fast tiny targets appearing randomly then running around and then jumping down damn holes like it’s WWII, it’s a bigger deal. I’ve cut down at least 1/3 of the time to shoot the target by using the bino/LRF combo. Probably more, as re-finding those little fing prairie dogs through a stand-alone little squinty LRF lipstick case (haha) is a pain in the azz.
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My dad still has his Leica LRF from the 90’s, and it works exactly the same as it did 20+ years ago.
If the lifecycle of these lrf bino’s is anywhere near the 20 year mark, it’ll be completely worth it to me. Everything breaks, and I’m fine with buying lrf binos a couple times in my life for the added functionality.
Leica probably won’t cover my 2200’s when they shit the bed in 15-20 years (hopefully that long), but I’d bet vortex would cover their Fury’s.
I am with you but a Vortex is not a Leica. At least with the Vortex they will send you a new one, you hope.
A few years ago I ranged a couple of nice bulls 1400 plus with my PLRF15 in heavy snow. With my 12x50’s I could tell the were 320-330 class bulls. The guy with me had a leica 1600 and he got the typical 30 yard snow reading. The only rf’s i have found that will reliably range through snow/fog/rain are higher end Vectronix units. Set the gate and enjoy the 3D functionality. I know you are out $$ if they go down but I have owned the PLRF05/10/15’s and never had a problem personally.
I just bought another kilo 2400 ABS from a member here and after testing today I am pleasantly surprised to find the beam dead center in the reticle. I have owned several and none of them, including the Vortex products have been dead center.
My Leica 2800.com is dead center as well and the BT connection has been flawless once you learn to work with it.
If these companies would go ahead and spend the extra 2 bills Orr whatever the cost would be and get that beam/reticle correct - charge the consumer the difference then I think we would have a lot of happy shooters!
Vortex hasn't had an original idea in, like, ever. If you can name one? I'm not a huge Leupold fan nowadays, but they wrote the book on customer service. Swarovski listened and learned from Leupold in that respect as well, and they are the class of the alpha's.
Leupold wrote the book on customer service?!
Who was it that pretty much forced most of the industry to go with a fully transferable lifetime warranty?
Who did Vortex steak their no questions asked warranty from?
Before them, I am unaware of any optics manufacturer that covered literally everything.
If you can’t name the optic manufacturer they took the idea from, well, then I just named an original idea.
.
Learn how to read. I said Leupold wrote the book on CUSTOMER SERVICE, which is different than a specific warranty practice.
Are you high?
You said vortex never had an original idea.
So, I gave an example of what from my understanding is original.
So, this is where you tell me how it’s not original or concede it is.
That’s how normal conversations go??
Just to make sure I know how to read.
That first sentence is pretty damning for your argument at the moment.
Annnnd, if you try the angle “it’s customer service related in general, so they stole it from leupold”........
Leupold didn’t invent good customer service. So that means leupold never had an original idea.
Make your reply awesome. Cause I’m bored.
Leupold didn’t invent good customer service. So that means leupold never had an original idea.
Make your reply awesome. Cause I’m bored.
I don't know how customer service is an idea that you can steal. You either have it or you don't. What Vortex create a situation where they were known for their warranty . I prefer a product that is not a piece of shit in a box, I have had good products from Vortex and bad and they always made it right. I have had several people tell me that the only reason they bought Vortex was the warranty. Every time I hear that the Tommy Boy video loops about a piece of crap in a box plays in my brain.
Whether Leupold was first in customer service or not, Vortex kicked enough as in Customer Service that that other optics companies started giving a fuck about their customers. Because in the long run they knew that Vortex would gladly take their customers from them.
There are so many optics companies that have started in the last 10 years I don't even know where to count them. Nearly all of them have the same warranty as Vortex. Some of them product higher quality products, some rebrand the same crap that Vortex buys from China and the Philippines.
For the average dude, $3000 rifle scope is a lot of money and to most people $500 rifle scope is too. So having a bullet proof guarantee helps sell it.
Whether Leupold was first in customer service or not, Vortex kicked enough as in Customer Service that that other optics companies started giving a fuck about their customers. Because in the long run they knew that Vortex would gladly take their customers from them.
There are so many optics companies that have started in the last 10 years I don't even know where to count them. Nearly all of them have the same warranty as Vortex. Some of them product higher quality products, some rebrand the same crap that Vortex buys from China and the Philippines.
For the average dude, $3000 rifle scope is a lot of money and to most people $500 rifle scope is too. So having a bullet proof guarantee helps sell it.
No nearly all do not have the same warranty. Few do. And yes Vortex forced a lot of companies to start actually stepping up their CS game.
You assume people who buy due to the warranty buy because they expect mechanical issues. The fact that Vortex covers accidental damage as well and will repair or replace any of their products from AMGs down to scope caps might be the real reason. No one I know buys a product for a warranty because they expect it to not work properly. The accidental damage is huge when life steps in and you drop them down a mountain or out of a tree stand or they burn in a house fire. All covered. So when people spend a lot of money they know they are covered with a no BS promise from the company and they will usually have a new product in a week or two. Not months of having to call and write and never hear anything.
We get it you and Johnny Uno do not like Vortex. You are open to your opinion. And before you say you do like them every one of your posts sounds like that but it has a backhanded compliment vibe like the post above. Example:
"Some of them product higher quality products, some rebrand the same crap that Vortex buys from China and the Philippines. "
Regardless of my Vortex fan boy status, no one can complain about their customer service.
In other news; I've had my Furys for two weeks now and still think they're awesome. Best glass I've personally ever owned (not saying a lot there, my previous best pair of binos were $200 on sale) and the ranging ability is amazing. The LRF being in binos instead of a one hand held LRF makes it way easier to get stable and get solid ranges very consistently.
And I haven't needed the warranty.
And I haven't needed the warranty.
I purchased a pair of lrf binos this year. Initially, I had my heart set on the Vortex but ultimately purchased the Sigs. When I called Vortex, they did confirm that the Fury binos are viper glass. The guy at Vortex couldn't find any info on the divergence angle of the beam. I was going to purchase the Vipers, but I was fortunate enough to be in a squad at an NRL match with guys who had each brand.
Out in the field, I kinda preferred the Sig glass and I ultimately went that route. Both binos performed as advertised the day I checked them out. My Sig binos are holding strong and they have the same advertised warranty as Vortex. The only issue I have with either pair is that the ranging reticle is huge if you are trying to hit a smaller target at any range. You should be happy with either pair, so don't hesitate to break the bank.
OK, I'll concede the fact that Vortex upped the warranty/customer service benchmark, even though Leupold, to the best of my knowledge, had the first no questions asked lifetime transferrable warranty. That's where the accolades stop for me though regarding Vortex. No, they have not had an original idea ever when it comes to products, as they are always copies/clones, etc of something that the OEM has on file. If you study specs of various makes, you will see that there are numerous, rebranded binos by various makers, and Vortex has never made anything themselves. The new UHD is a clone of a Maven bino, and the Fury 5000 was a clone of the Nikon Laserforce, for just two examples. There is always something better than a Vortex for less money, or for the same money you will find something significantly better.
The Fury needs to have Razor glass, applied ballistics software, and bluetooth, and sell it for $1200, then they may finally have something I find interesting. I can honestly say over a 15 yr period of having numerous hunters in various hunting camps, I've never seen the first Vortex product come through the doors.
For you guys that remember Formid around here, PM him about Vortex quality.
The Fury needs to have Razor glass, applied ballistics software, and bluetooth, and sell it for $1200, then they may finally have something I find interesting. I can honestly say over a 15 yr period of having numerous hunters in various hunting camps, I've never seen the first Vortex product come through the doors.
For you guys that remember Formid around here, PM him about Vortex quality.
I would never buy a Vortex scope( at least not yet) but a rangefinding binos with a lifetime warranty is definitely a big plus. Also, Vortex is widely known for their excellent customer service. If a scope goes down on you during hunting season it is a very big deal. If a rangefinding bino goes down on you during a hunt it doesn't end your hunt.
Not according to the Sig site that says it's only 5 years on electronics and no mention of accidental damage.
INFINITE GUARANTEE™
SIG SAUER Electro-Optics are guaranteed forever. It’s an unlimited lifetime guarantee.
Unlimited Lifetime Guarantee
- Fully Transferable
- No Warranty Card Required
- No Receipt Required
- No Time Limit Applies
- No Charge
5 YEAR WARRANTY
(Electronic Component Limited 5 Year Warranty) Covers any defects in materials and workmanship in the electronic and Tritium components of illuminated riflescopes/sights, pistol sights, electronic sights, flashlights, lasers, binoculars, spotting scopes and rangefinders for five years from date of manufacture.
There is a new Razor 3-15x50 that is made in Japan. I'd like to handle one. Cheaper than a Nightforce or Leupold VX and should be similar quality.
As for the Fury and warranty, I'd agree that a lot of the risk with the LRF binoculars is gone when buying Vortex. I just wish the eye relief was 20 instead of 16. They are unusable to me with my four eyed freak near sightedness problem.
As for the Fury and warranty, I'd agree that a lot of the risk with the LRF binoculars is gone when buying Vortex. I just wish the eye relief was 20 instead of 16. They are unusable to me with my four eyed freak near sightedness problem.
I mentioned as much above, but I’m still curious about nearsightedness people having trouble with these binos. I have -10.5 vision and wear glasses. In my 50 years, I’ve met one person with eyes worse than mine. I don’t have eye relief probs with my Fury 5000s.
I’m certainly not discounting your problems, as all eyes are different. Could you describe your problem a little more? Are you wearing glasses when using binos? Are they high-index (thinnest possible)? How are you setting the diopters? How are you setting the eye cup distance? Are you able to get the binos close enough together? Are your glasses as close as possible to your eye? Is the complaint that you want the same FOV with/without glasses? Etc.
For example, nearsighted lenses make one’s eyes appear smaller to another person (think: looking through a telescope the wrong way). So, to an onlooker, my eyes look closer together when I have my glasses on.
What this means, practically, is that I usually have to crank binos closed as far as they can go (like a little kid would do). Sometimes they don’t go close enough together and I get those little black crescents.
Anyway, perhaps I can help.
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I don’t have a ton of experience with quality binos or LRF. But I love my fury’s. It would be nice if they would connect to my kestrel but honestly whatever. They are awesome. And I’m very pleased.
That is interesting. When I purchased mine, that was not what they had on the advertisements. Good catch though as this certainly would change my analysis too.
I am -5 vision or 20/400. You are much blinder (or whatever it is called), than I am. I have tremendous eye-relief problems with any binoculars that have less than 19mm of usable eye relief. Usable eye relief is measured from your eye ball to the eye cups (or the lens whatever is the closest). Most binoculars are listed by eye relief and not usable eye relief. I wear a 7 and 3/4's hat, so I have a larger sized head and my eyes are fairly far apart.
I get black circles in any pair of binoculars that have less than 19mm of usable eye relief.
I have 6 pairs of binoculars; Vortex Talon 10x42, Vortex Talon 8x42, Nikon 10x56 Monarch, Minox 8x56, Bushnell Legend 10x50, and Pentax porro prism 10x50's. I don't have any high end binoculars. You could argue that the Minox and Nikon's are mid range, but most of them are lower mid-range.
So, with the eye cups, do you screw those all the way in? Because with Fury HD 5000 binos, I found that I had to screw the eyecups out one notch (starting with them screwed all the way in). This is very counter-intuitive for an eyeglass wearer. Usually I get the best vision and FOV with, say, Steiner 8x32 eyecups folded over/flat.
If leave the Fury eyecups screwed all the way in, I get black crescents no matter how wide or narrow the binos are adjusted. I move the binos left and right, adjust them wide and narrow, all in vain. All I was doing was getting “chased by the crescents”.
Same with the Nikon Laserforce. I assume I’d have the same prob with the Sigs, since all of them sound like they are the same base model from some OEM.
I almost didn’t buy the Furys, because that issue bugged me so much at the store. Same with the Nikons. After trying them at different stores, I noticed some pairs (nikons & vortex’s) were better than others, so there may be some sample variation. Fractions of mm make a difference at my rx. I really wanted the Furys because of the warranty vs the Nikons.
Then, in frustration I tried the trick mentioned above. It sacrifices some (not much at all) FOV for ease of use. It makes using the Furys effortless for me. I bought them in person at Cabelas; that pair worked better than the others, so maybe mimic what I did.
I have a 7 1/2 hat size (roughly) and I think average spaced eyes. At least no one has ever said they are narrowly or widely spaced. I make sure my glasses are pushed close to my eye (but not smashed). I have high-index plastic lenses, the most expensive you can buy.
edit: I also have to do the same thing with the eyecup on the Vortex Razor angled 85mm spotter. One click out.
edit #2: I remember that I also had the same problem with the uber expensive Swarovski LRF binos, but NOT with the same Swaro binos sans LRF. Not sure if it’s an internal optical thing or the fact that the LRF binos don’t seem to close as far (due to the battery compartment). Just guessing.
edit #3: by “black circles”, do you mean evenly spaced black outlines around the view (from being pushed back a little by the eyepiece)? Vs. what I would call the Big Wide High Def view (no even black circles but, for me/the Furys, I get the crescents) you get when your eye is as close as possible to the eyepiece? If those even/circular black outlines are offensive, I can’t help you. It’s just something I deal with and doesn’t bother me much.
My beef is with the crescents. I catch glimpses of the BWHD view with glasses when the eyecups are all the way in, but yeah, the crescents. With my contacts, it’s BWHD view every time, all the time. But I have other issues with contacts.
I hope this is helpful.
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