I'm not too new to reloading but only really getting serious into rifle this year. If I were to read the forums, here and elsewhere, it would seem that the method to work up a load is to start in the middle of the data and then work up until your gun starts doing fucked up things to your brass. What's the deal with this advice? It clearly ignores the measured pressure limits, it's likely not going to blow up your gun but it will reduce brass and barrel life and likely reduce your precision. Is it just the natural tendency for monkeys to max things out to the point that they break? Why don't people just go to a larger cartridge if they want to stuff too much powder in? What am I missing?
Why do people load so hot?
- Thread starter Salmon Exceptional Ape
- Start date
I to am new to reloading rifle ammo but to assume that everyone that has more experience then you is a Monkey is pretty silly. Its probably because the book max is way low compared to real world application. Your also posting on the only form that I've ever been on with a huge wealth of good knowledge and very little BS. The assumption that you would loose precision shows your lack of understanding. Accuracy nodes vary with velocity and pushing velocity is a good thing if accuracy and ES are where they need to be. It will allow you to have better accuracy at distance, with less effect on the bullet from environmental conditions.
The faster a bullet goes the less wind will impact flight and you have statistically better chance of elevation being more accurate from shooting more flat.
None of the above is worth anything without a curry keeping up and people are t hurting their guns. They get heavy bolt lift or ejector swipe and back off.
Also, I think you’re conflating the common practice of experienced reloaders with what you assume to be advice. If you ask most of us for reloading advice we are absolutely NOT going to tell you to go chase a max load. I’m going to tell you to pick the middle of the book and not be concerned with pushing maxes or chasing speed.
None of the above is worth anything without a curry keeping up and people are t hurting their guns. They get heavy bolt lift or ejector swipe and back off.
Also, I think you’re conflating the common practice of experienced reloaders with what you assume to be advice. If you ask most of us for reloading advice we are absolutely NOT going to tell you to go chase a max load. I’m going to tell you to pick the middle of the book and not be concerned with pushing maxes or chasing speed.
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You Sir, are light years ahead, and not even out the gate! Took me 30yrs to rest on the sentiments you described.
I can’t get many to follow my advice of using the primer pocket growth as THE indicator to read pressure. Basically, if you’re not enlarging the primer pocket by .0005 on first firing, and a few subsequent firings maintain .001 growth, you’re all set on a brass savings, more than likely, good shooting/non punishing load.
Most people are already beyond that point and don’t know it.
Nothing, you've hit the nail on the head. Most forum-dwellers aren't really aware of how high their pressures are. Some are and choose to accept the risks/costs that come with it.
You aren’t missing anything. Like the diesel pickup owner that blows his daily driver motor or tranny screwing around on the weekend at a truck pull, most reloaders scoff at reasonable brass life or upgrading to a 300-378 Weatherby. Good quality gear and components will last if used in the middle of their capabilities. I could get another 100 fps out of my 300PRC load. Thing is, my expensive brass is not growing and the pockets are still tight.
I confess—I load nuclear 10mm when loading 10mm, because that's how one should load 10mm.
...but for rifle, are you sure you're reading 'work up until your gun starts doing foked up chit to your brass' and not working up until you see the slightest signs of pressure, then back down to a safe load, simply to know your upper and lower bounds and keep you out of trouble?
For example, with 6 Dasher, some books cap (Sierra especially) at like 2500fps, which is ridiculous slow even for a BR. So I would work up until I see a very faint ejector mark/feel a slight heavy bolt lift/start to see the primers flattening, etc, etc...just to know where the red line in the sand is drawn, then back down to a place where a few extra kernels here and there and some dirt in my chamber/rainy conditions isn't going to push the pressure envelope. That becomes my 'max' and I search for the best load lower than that. It's the first thing I do with any new caliber.
In terms of the Dasher, I hit 2980 with zero signs and could have continued stuffing a few more tenths in there easily and been safe, but I wanted to be slower than that, so took the best load between my new min/max @2860fps and never looked back (and have a load in the 2700s that rival that load). But at least I know where I am on the pressure curve, per se, and will never have an issue.
...but I wouldn't recommend settling on 2500 or 2600 or 2700 when your bullet/barrel/powder combination could reward you if you had continued searching for what it liked to eat and could have starting shootings 0s/1s @2950fps with zero signs of pressure. You won't know when you stop at book max that is sometimes drastically understated for obvious reasons.
If I switch powders, I do another truncated ladder and see if I can reach the same upper threshold with no pressure signs and know where to start (and end) load development.
I am not saying I recommend people try to run their 6 dashers at 6 creed speeds, and I hear what you're saying and completely agree that if you are pushing the envelope, move up a caliber to where you are trying to be...but finding pressure has it's place in reloading for sure.
At one of our dinners during Frank & Marc's Nebraska class a few weeks ago, I talked about this with one of the other students. I told him about my late teens early 20s doing car hop-up stuff, and friends who would roach one engine after another without learning a lesson. Some people just want to push it to the limit and then even see what happens post-limit. One particular friend of mine just would not stop ragging his engines, 4 cars in a row didn't teach him.
I like going fast but I don't like blowing things up. I go at it pretty conservatively as a new (1 yr) reloading guy.
I like going fast but I don't like blowing things up. I go at it pretty conservatively as a new (1 yr) reloading guy.
I used to shoot suspicious internet load data through our calibrated pressure and velocity test barrels until I got a few that were well north of 80ksi and I decided fucking up a couple thousand dollar transducer wasn't worth my entertainment.
If you think it's bad here, go check out long range hunting forum. They load .300NMs with heavies to .22-250 50 grain load speeds.
Some people just are genetically predisposed to push the limits. I'm not one of them, but it can be fun to watch from a safe distance.
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