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Gunsmithing Why does everyone thread bolt handles on?

jonaddis84

Gunny Sergeant
Commercial Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 27, 2009
2,348
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Toledo, OH
www.area419.com
This job literally took me less than an hour from disassembly of the bolt, to putting the part in the oven after KG coating it.

Its TIG welded on, guarantee its stronger than the brazing remington puts their handles on with (granted this is a savage and the weld COULD break before the attachment point.)

It (IMO) looks ten times better than any thread on bolt handle (save Dixons silver soldered/threaded handles).

What am I missing? Besides the ability to rapidly change handles I dont get it.

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Re: Why does everyone thread bolt handles on?

Did you butt weld the knob to the handle arm, or did the knob have a dowel that extends into the bolt handle? If it's butt welded, did you bevel the handle and the knob to get proper weld penetration? IMO, the reason the knobs are threaded on, or better yet, attached like the Tac Ops bolt knobs, is for load dispersion. One could apply an awful lot of torque on the bolt arm, and having that load spread evenly, or as evenly as possibly across the length of that arm would make the system less prone to failure.
 
Re: Why does everyone thread bolt handles on?

My guess is that between most mere mortals having access to taps and dies, as opposed to being TIG welders, and bolt handles being such a "stylin" sort of thing.

Being able to install / change them readily as tastes change is important enough to trade off on strength.

But that's just a guess?
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Re: Why does everyone thread bolt handles on?

The knob had a 45 degree chamfer on the end, and I also ground a bevel into the handle and filled it all with weld.

Even so, Im almost positive a cold butt welded joint would not fail before the brazed 700 handle/bolt interface.

This was a customer supplied knob, he had a buddy make the knob up on a cnc, not sure if hes a pothead or not?

As for mere mortals, I understand the DIY'er doing thread on knobs, that makes sense to me. Im wondering why shops do thread on's when most have TIG welders.

Dont get me wrong, Im not ripping on anyone, I just wondered if maybe this has been tried and proven to not be as good as thread on handles.
 
Re: Why does everyone thread bolt handles on?

Well...havent seen one quite like that, that is very impressive, I wouldnt expect any less from Mark.

I will take a guess though that that operation takes much much longer, and the quick change ability also goes away unless you have several made and contoured at the same time.
 
Re: Why does everyone thread bolt handles on?

I think the real advantage of threading on a bolt handle opposed to welding it is if you end up with well a real shitter of a bolt handle that seems like a great idea at the time but really wasn't. You can just unscrew it and thread on a new style of your choice. If you welded it on then its much more work.
 
Re: Why does everyone thread bolt handles on?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alderleet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cause Mark Gordons work is freaking seamless, and looks amazing.

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Subtle difference, but none-the-less shows it </div></div>


Keep in mind, the top is a round Winchester handle going into a round knob. Hence the seamlessness. Ive seen weld on Tac Ops knobs on round handles and they look perfect as well.

IMO, the OP did an excellent job of blending that handle into that knob.
 
Re: Why does everyone thread bolt handles on?

Because with the jigs that the smiths generally use, it will take them the same or less time to do it their way then what it took you.

Not to mention, ability to change the handles easily down the road.

And just as an additional fyi.. I still hate you.
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Re: Why does everyone thread bolt handles on?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: flounderv2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Because with the jigs that the smiths generally use, it will take them the same or less time to do it their way then what it took you.

Not to mention, ability to change the handles easily down the road.

And just as an additional fyi.. I still hate you.
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</div></div>

jigga what! Maybe you didnt notice where I sayed I also prepped and sprayed the part under an hour. Actual time for handle install for the following, disassemble bolt, clamp bolt in vise, cut off handle, square off and shape handle, get welder out, plug welder in and fire up, weld handle, put welder away, sand down weld and contour handle... 25 minutes. The extra 35 minutes to spray part were from having to let it cool off before I could touch it to hang it up.

If a smith can honestly come in here and say they can set up the jig in the lathe, part off the handle, turn to diameter, turn threads and test fit and <span style="text-decoration: underline">put everything away</span> in under 25 minutes then Ill come buy them a case of beer...and if you are a smith in Montana or anywhere similar I will come work for you for a few weeks for free in July
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Ive never done it, but I assume the fixture has to go in a 4 jaw and each handle has to be indicated (roughly) in before threading?

I also realize once the fixture is in the lathe it doesnt take much to do another, but once my welder is out with handles ready to go it would also take even less time.

Again, Chad doesnt count in this mere mortal thread....but I bet he'd still be pushing 20-25 minutes start to finish also.
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Different strokes I know, and again Im not bashing the thread on's they do their job just as well, just something to talk about, and I thought maybe someone would point out that Im an idiot for doing it this way and save me some headache down the road (besides that ahole flounder)
 
Re: Why does everyone thread bolt handles on?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

If a smith can honestly come in here and say they can set up the jig in the lathe, part off the handle, turn to diameter, turn threads and test fit and <span style="text-decoration: underline">put everything away</span> in under 25 minutes then Ill come buy them a case of beer...and if you are a smith in Montana or anywhere similar I will come work for you for a few weeks for free in July
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</div></div>

Im not a smith but I did stay at a Holiday in Express once.
Ah young padawan jon, youve much to learn.. Obviously you missed this video with flounder at GAP doing one in 3 min on a manual mill.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i2lCg8MHXQ

I'll take a case of Tommyknocker Maple Nut Brown Ale.
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Re: Why does everyone thread bolt handles on?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If a smith can honestly come in here and say they can set up the jig in the lathe, part off the handle, turn to diameter, turn threads and test fit and <span style="text-decoration: underline">put everything away</span> in under 25 minutes then Ill come buy them a case of beer...
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i have them done in less than 10 minutes now from the time i pick the bolt up off the bench and have the knob glued on and back on the bench. my knobs are pre-finished so i have no need to finish the bolt handle or bolt body. i don't do it in a lathe though and the fixture stays in my mill. i don't have any tools to put away. if i am doing a large batch of them, i can cut down that time significantly.

edit: also, with machining the handle, either on a lathe or mill, there is no risk of the haz making it into places that it shouldn't. it is also much easier to attach an aluminum knob to a steel handle with a threaded joint than with a welded joint.
 
Re: Why does everyone thread bolt handles on?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jonaddis84</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wheres the smiley with his foot in his mouth?
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Can I just call you a dumbass instead.
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You know Im kidding.


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Or am I?
 
Re: Why does everyone thread bolt handles on?

Once you have a jig, it's a very quick job to cut and thread in a cnc mill. Indicate and zero it, cut the original knob down to diameter, change to a thread mill, cut thread, blow off chips, remove from jig. It takes 10-15 minutes if you're like me with a little mill and not a lot of experience.

Cheers,
Greg
 
Re: Why does everyone thread bolt handles on?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

edit: also, with machining the handle, either on a lathe or mill, there is no risk of the haz making it into places that it shouldn't. it is also much easier to attach an aluminum knob to a steel handle with a threaded joint than with a welded joint. </div></div>

Especially when the bolt handle you are welding on is cast metal.