Why is the Anvil 30 better than a quality geared head if preventing rifle cant is important?

[snoopyloopy]

I know there are lots of RRS Anvil 30 fans here. With the Anvil 30, I get that it's great, but it's also easy to flop left or right, whereas with a geared head, it can't flop left or right. And since we want to keep our rifle vertically true (free of cant) when we shoot, wouldn't that make a geared head a better choice as a shooting platform than an Anvil 30? I know I must be wrong here but I don't get what I'm missing.

Thanks in advance for the education. I'm new here and only have a few years experience as a shooter.

 

[snoopyloopy]

I'll just add, the RRS TA-3 has the same cant issue as the Anvil 30, though maybe to a lesser degree, and is maybe the 2nd most sought after and popular option among shooters here. Again, why not a geared head to avoid having to worry about whether your rifle is canted or not?

 

[Jefe's Dope]

You only shoot from perfectly level ground and your tripod legs are exactly the same length when you deploy them?

 

[E. Bryant]

IMHO, the shooter needs to control cant, and not the equipment. The Anvil 30 head allows a shooter to do this quickly and easily, where as a rigid head will result in the shooter fighting the equipment unless one takes time to perfectly level the tripod.

 

[theLBC]

you have 3 targets at different distances. how long to change poa for each with a geared head?
tbh, i didn't know anyone used for except for spotting.

 

[kthomas]

If you want a ballhead that's versatile and can also control cant, check out the Uniqball UBH-45. It's a gimbal ball system, and to my knowledge the only type in it's existence. You can level the larger outer ball, and lock it in place, the inner ball has freedom to move in the horizontal and vertical axis', and no cant is imparted into the system. You can also just use it as a regular ballhead if you want.

It's what I have mounted on my tripod, and it's pretty slick.

 

[hereinaz]

You are doing it wrong if the rifle is flopping. When I loosen my anvil 30, I have total control of the rifle. Further, I have control over the tension of the head.

Most shooting with a tripod for me is dynamic and having quick easy adjustment is key. Of course, having the Anvil 30 lock up solid is a huge part of stability and utility.

If you haven't shot off the Anvil 30, then what you have going is speculative.

If you have shot off the Anvil 30, then a little work with an instructor would help you decide if your shooting style is worth changing or improving. Not saying you are wrong, just different strokes for different folks.

 

[McMillan]

If you have minutes per shot then your theory is probably a good on

 

[sleeplz]

Plate with gamechanger has become my go to. I've played with the anvil on my 24 and there's definite play in it.

 

[Geno C.]

I’m a huge proponent for gear heads but they’re aren’t very quick for multiple targets. Definitely better for spotting though

 

[snoopyloopy]

If you want a ballhead that's versatile and can also control cant, check out the Uniqball UBH-45. It's a gimbal ball system, and to my knowledge the only type in it's existence. You can level the larger outer ball, and lock it in place, the inner ball has freedom to move in the horizontal and vertical axis', and no cant is imparted into the system. You can also just use it as a regular ballhead if you want.

It's what I have mounted on my tripod, and it's pretty slick.

Really interesting! I will definitely check it out. Thanks so much for sharing.

 

[snoopyloopy]

I’m a huge proponent for gear heads but they’re aren’t very quick for multiple targets. Definitely better for spotting though

I see. That makes total sense. I hadn't taken into account speed. I assumed you could just loosen up a gear head and have it move as rapidly as a ball head like the Anvil 30.

 

[snoopyloopy]

Plate with gamechanger has become my go to. I've played with the anvil on my 24 and there's definite play in it.

I've actually been considering trying that very same option.
What are you using as your plate? Abel Table?
Overall you like that combo better than the Anvil 30?
When you walk away, do you leave your rifle resting on the bag or put it... somewhere else?

 

[snoopyloopy]

You are doing it wrong if the rifle is flopping. When I loosen my anvil 30, I have total control of the rifle. Further, I have control over the tension of the head.

Most shooting with a tripod for me is dynamic and having quick easy adjustment is key. Of course, having the Anvil 30 lock up solid is a huge part of stability and utility.

If you haven't shot off the Anvil 30, then what you have going is speculative.

If you have shot off the Anvil 30, then a little work with an instructor would help you decide if your shooting style is worth changing or improving. Not saying you are wrong, just different strokes for different folks.

I do have an Anvil-30, haven't tried other options. It doesn't "flop over" completely, obviously, but I'm trying to shoot as close to level as I can, and it's hard to tell how much overall my rifle is canting, even with the bubble level on the Anvil. Maybe I need a bubble level on my scope mount. Or maybe I'm overthinking it and a little cant doesn't hurt nobody.

 

[snoopyloopy]

you have 3 targets at different distances. how long to change poa for each with a geared head?
tbh, i didn't know anyone used for except for spotting.

I've only used the Anvil-30, haven't used a geared head, just intuitively it seems like it might work better. Just wanted people's opinions on it. Thanks for giving me yours.

 

[sleeplz]

I've actually been considering trying that very same option.
What are you using as your plate? Abel Table?
Overall you like that combo better than the Anvil 30?
When you walk away, do you leave your rifle resting on the bag or put it... somewhere else?

I'm using the big gray ops plate but I'm sure any table works fine. The plate attaches to the anvil 30 and I generally take the rifle off and leave the bag if I'm walking away from it.

The gamechanger on the table is faster and more stable for the rrs 24.

 

[snoopyloopy]

IMHO, the shooter needs to control cant, and not the equipment. The Anvil 30 head allows a shooter to do this quickly and easily, where as a rigid head will result in the shooter fighting the equipment unless one takes time to perfectly level the tripod.

Given that your profile says "gearhead" I thought you'd be more enthusiastic about geared heads. lol. Just kidding. You make a good point. Hadn't considered that. I need to get my hands on a geared head to better understand its limitations.

 

[Nik H]

I know there are lots of RRS Anvil 30 fans here. With the Anvil 30, I get that it's great, but it's also easy to flop left or right, whereas with a geared head, it can't flop left or right. And since we want to keep our rifle vertically true (free of cant) when we shoot, wouldn't that make a geared head a better choice as a shooting platform than an Anvil 30? I know I must be wrong here but I don't get what I'm missing.

Thanks in advance for the education. I'm new here and only have a few years experience as a shooter.

This was one of the best threads to look at for this question

RRS Leveling Heads

 

[snoopyloopy]

I'm using the big gray ops plate but I'm sure any table works fine. The plate attaches to the anvil 30 and I generally take the rifle off and leave the bag if I'm walking away from it.

The gamechanger on the table is faster and more stable for the rrs 24.

That sounds great, I will definitely try it. My only problem with that setup is I have a heavy rifle with a ridiculous amount of stuff mounted on it, and little thin girlyarms (haven't hit the gym since high school) so the luxury of leaving the rifle sitting on the tripod is hard to give up. Come to think of it, maybe my girlyarms are partially responsible for struggling with my rifle cant?!?

 

[sleeplz]

That sounds great, I will definitely try it. My only problem with that setup is I have a heavy rifle with a ridiculous amount of stuff mounted on it, and little thin girlyarms (haven't hit the gym since high school) so the luxury of leaving the rifle sitting on the tripod is hard to give up. Come to think of it, maybe my girlyarms are partially responsible for struggling with my rifle cant?!?

Better to be smart than strong, or have a combo of both. Find the balance point of the rifle and it can hang on the bag all day. I just don't like leaving it on there because what can fall will fall. Here's a video of the combo. At 9:25 you'll see the setup in use.

 

[snoopyloopy]

Better to be smart than strong, or have a combo of both. Find the balance point of the rifle and it can hang on the bag all day. I just don't like leaving it on there because what can fall will fall. Here's a video of the combo. At 9:25 you'll see the setup in use.

Very useful. That video helps a lot actually because I haven't used a setup like that before.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Nothing wrong with thinking outside the box. I encourage you to try it and then tell us about it. Who knows? Certainly more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[Nik H]

I do have an Anvil-30, haven't tried other options. It doesn't "flop over" completely, obviously, but I'm trying to shoot as close to level as I can, and it's hard to tell how much overall my rifle is canting, even with the bubble level on the Anvil. Maybe I need a bubble level on my scope mount. Or maybe I'm overthinking it and a little cant doesn't hurt nobody.

Why do you think that your rifle is canted if the Anvil level shows that it isn't? Have you checked it against a plumb line or a carpenter's long level? Putting a second level on your scope will just be a frustrating experience. @lowlight had put up a photo in another thread of multiple levels on a level surface and all three were different to a small degree. I used to have a copy but can't lay my hands on it.

 

[Lowlight]

We started checking every scope, even in our PR 1 class which is 2 day, normally we reserved this for 3 day classes, why because we are finding 1/3 to 50% of the students don't have their scopes set up correctly including 6 scopes in the last class were canted in the rings.

A level is an idiot light, nothing else, if you don't know what you are doing to hold a rifle straight, take a class. Funny levels became vogue around 2007, now it's a must have, how the fuck did I we ever hit a target prior to 2007?

I shoot a ton off an Anvil 30 with no issue, this sounds like another case of,

I can't do it so it must be something else, people want a widget, they feel a widget replaces practice or more importantly education, they get told every day by the Sniper Dandruff types that, buying this will get you hits on targets, Sniper Dandruff never talks proper shooting just how well you'll do with their products.

Can you not stand up straight and see if the top of your turret looks straight ?

It's SHAMWOW Stuff, a big personality stands in front of a camera, talks how you'll love their nuts if you use their product, meanwhile the buyer can't turn on the oven, plug in the cord or mount the widget correctly to begin with... if widget worked over being educated every new shooter would getting first rounds hits with that Free App on their phone, that is the marketing correct, use my software hit a target, no training needed? Just plug in the numbers, start hitting shit right away.

I keep seeing all these levels and as soon as I get behind them, canted, the levels are hanging out there, misaligned, or they are bumped off square over time and the user swears by them as gospel.

Sorry to hurt feelings but I will respect the four in my head combined with the tuned gray matter between my ears before I listen to a widget salesman.

 

[Geno C.]

I see. That makes total sense. I hadn't taken into account speed. I assumed you could just loosen up a gear head and have it move as rapidly as a ball head like the Anvil 30.

You can but generally it’s only one plane at a time when you have your other hand on the rifle

 

[TheGerman]

People don't think uneven terrain be like it is. But it do.

 

[snoopyloopy]

Why do you think that your rifle is canted if the Anvil level shows that it isn't? Have you checked it against a plumb line or a carpenter's long level? Putting a second level on your scope will just be a frustrating experience. @lowlight had put up a photo in another thread of multiple levels on a level surface and all three were different to a small degree. I used to have a copy but can't lay my hands on it.

I use the Anvil with a panning base and on rough ground the tripod is never perfectly level, so as soon as I pan, the cant deviates slightly. Does that make sense? You may have the impression I'm shooting sideways with my rifle canted at a 45 degree angle but in reality I'm probably canted no more than a degree or 2 on average. Having said that I think the Uniqball UBH45 that's mentioned above looks like just the kind of SHAMWOW product I would love to own.

 

[Nik H]

I use the Anvil with a panning base and on rough ground the tripod is never perfectly level, so as soon as I pan, the cant deviates slightly. Does that make sense? You may have the impression I'm shooting sideways with my rifle canted at a 45 degree angle but in reality I'm probably canted no more than a degree or 2 on average. Having said that I think the Uniqball UBH45 that's mentioned above looks like just the kind of SHAMWOW product I would love to own.

I don't have the impression of you shooting sideways. I would think that would be obvious to you.

Complexity is counter to my nature. Being an engineer, I always like elegant and intuitively simple solutions like the Anvil. I shoot in a lot of uneven situations and, as said by Frank, cant is something intuitive. One degree or two is not going to affect your impact much unless you are shooting beyond 1,000...you can do the math and see for yourself. I never would even question that the Anvil causing me to do something counter to good fundamentals.

Have you used the SHAMWOW before? It wasn't all that WOW if you did. People bought it because of the theatrics of the salesman. Not saying that the UBH45 is bad but to me, there is a lot of complexity there for a problem that isn't really a problem...at least for me.

YMMV...good luck

 

[snoopyloopy]

I never would even question that the Anvil causing me to do something counter to good fundamentals.

The Anvil is a tool, like a screwdriver. Would you say that about any tool? "This screwdriver is causing me to do something counter to good fundamentals." Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If there's a problem, it's my choice of a tool that's flawed. I blame myself, not the tool.

So it's just a question of what is the best tool for the job. Seems like you and @lowlight and others here are saying that Anvil-30 is unquestionable, it's perfect, and everything else is an overly complex gimmick, don't even look at them. I don't think that way. The Anvil is pretty good, I own one, I like it, but I never stop trying to improve my platform. I'm always interested in what else is out there that might be a better tool for the job, and others here posted suggestions like using a gamechanger bag and the Uniqball UBH45 as other options which was very useful input. Have you tested the gamechanger bag / gray ops plate and the Uniqball UBH45 side-by-side with the Anvil-30? Why automatically conclude other options are gimmicks in search of a problem that doesn't exist? At least that's how I think. Good to keep an open mind. Thanks though for offering your thoughts.

 

[Lowlight]

Keep buying widgets,

game changers work, they are 7LBS bags, vs a 2.2 lbs tripod, then you have to add the gray ops for more lateral stability, after adding a weight system to your rifle to balance it,

if you walk 25 yards from the car to the line, anything works,

have we ever, what dumb fucking question, I also worked this week with different rifle types and the recoil managing load you place behind the rifle, after reducing it from 100% down to 75, then 50% we found on rifles that are not front heavy the muzzle jumps over 10 Mils vs the weighted front end.

I demo just about ever class my AI on an Anvil hitting a target with nothing touching but my trigger finger and thumb, do that on a bag and watch what happens.

tools are just that, a tool , given the choice of only one, a tripod solves every precision rifle problem one might encounter from a to b, if you need more tools to stack on top of each other in order to maintain level, you’re not a shooter. Keep playing with legos and filling your box with widgets you’ll eventually get there.

 

[Lowlight]

No I never, no curiosity at all

Not even once would I consider it

I must be ignorant of what you are saying, cause only you have the answers or looked at this stuff to any degree

It would be silly that I would own different tools to instruct with, I just demand people stick to one thing in order to satisfy my needs vs anyone else's right... why on earth would I be traveling with 4 different types of rests and 3 different rear bags , plus a tripod.

 

[M8541Reaper]

I’d buy shamwow bore patches if they made them. A bit off topic, I know, but that’s just the shamwow effect.
#PaidForByTheShamwowUnderground

 

[Lowlight]

500 yards in the wind,

 

[Nik H]

In search of perfection....another widget....no problem....

No difference.....BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Lowlight]

Much of this just, Validate Me...

Was my choice the best choice as if there is ever a best choice when this stuff changes monthly, the tripods we used 6 months before the first RRS hit the street were considered top of the line, as soon as RRS hit the street they ended up collecting dust.

Bags are not new, every old codger at the range sitting on a bench is using a sand filled V Bag, we realized the flat of the area rail rode them just as well vs the pic rails that want to grab, now you see chassis and stocks with flat bottoms (See F Class) and we are taking pages out of the bench rest community with super light triggers in what is supposed to be a tactical rifle sport. So it’s just being lifted from what these bullseye competitions are doing, only difference we added handles to them so we can carry them and toss them on the obstacle.

There is nothing practical about it anymore, it‘s bigger, heavier, equals more gooder, while using as light a caliber we can with a 4 port brake to control the recoil pulse. Attach a plate, for lateral stability that way we can use the minimum amount of managed recoil pressure behind the rifle in order to minimize influence. It’s not free recoil it;s managed recoil, 25% vs 75% vs 100%,

The game turned into a contrived game where the answer is game Changer, tripod, tripod, game changer, or a combination of both. It’s not skill, it‘s minimize the influence and adapt to the height. Clearly removing the shooter influence the machine will do the same thing every time, and the closer the SD is to 0, the more consistent that will be.