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why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

#3
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

I like the compact rifle concept, but modern fast glass (S&B short dot style, 1-6x, 1-8x) mounted in the normal place seems a much better choice than the forward mount.
 
#4
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dogman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like the compact rifle concept, but modern fast glass (S&B short dot style, 1-6x, 1-8x) mounted in the normal place seems a much better choice than the forward mount. </div></div>

this is my main beef, i also keep thinking for the purpose, semi auto might be more desirable
 
#5
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

Jay,

The scout rifle concept was born at a time when: reliable DBM's for bolt rifles did not exist, hence "top loading" a bolt had some utility; and there were no accurate and affordable AR-10's about.

The concept of a light handy "do-it-all rifle" is still a sound idea, but platform variety has widened the concept far beyond where Col. Cooper envisioned it.
 
#6
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

I built a scout rifle using a Remington Model 7 many years ago. The forward-mounted scope makes it very easy to carry the rifle by grasping it around the action. It also works well for snap shooting. But a big drawback of that scope positioning is that the sun can wash out the entire field of view when it's behind you. I used the Leupold scout scope, which has a very thick reticle that can completely obscure small targets, such as clays past 100 yards.

—Andreas
 
#7
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

I admit to having purchased a Ruger Gunsite Scout. It appealed to me because it was relatively short and easy-to-handle bolt action, had a threaded barrel (concentric with a square shoulder), iron sights, and the option of mounting a scope without removing the irons. Right now I am using iron sights without the suppressor (I replaced the flash hider with a QD mount) and a removable dot sight with the can. I am still pondering the scope. The limited options and limited field of view for the scout position are not very appealing, but a conventional mount that retains the iron sights would require an aftermarket rail or other solution.

For now, it is a fun gun to shoot and is easy to carry in the truck (as opposed to my big, heavy long-range rifles).
 
#8
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

I can't explain the resurgence of the scout rifle, but I definitely enjoy the concept of the scout rifle.

I was able to fire the Ruger Gunsite at a recent demo shoot at a local range. I liked the rifle a lot. It was light enough, handy, and even with the 308, recoil wasn't an issue. My only issue was the fore end which was a little small and I burned my fingers on the barrel. That was probably because I don't have much experience with bolt guns.

However, I don't understand all of the requirements for the scout rifle concept such as the ching sling, and I am not sold on the forward mounted optic.

Does anyone know how Jeff Cooper decided upon the weight limits? I do understand that lower weight=better because it will result in less fatigue.
 
#9
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

I have an 18" barrel on a 700 action in a McMillan sporter stock with a 2-7x Leupold. Although I like the concept of the scout rifle, I think what I cobbled together will fill my needs well enough.

That being said, the scout rifle will fill a niche that some have. I just don't have it.
 
#11
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

Definitely seems like a DPMS "sportical" (or similar AR10) would outperform the typical scout rifle.

I recently checked out the Steyr, which I thought was pretty sweet, albeit a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
 
#12
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

The scout is an OK concept, and it took of here in Australia a little, mainly due to the illiegal nature of most semi-autos, but the need for a short, fast-handling rifle was paramount to hunting pigs in the thick australian scrub.

However, the Remington 7600 has kinda taken over that market due to it's obviously faster action, and the innacuracy compared to a boltgun is negligable over such a short distance.
 
#13
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

The main reason is the forward mount scope allows your normal peripheral vision to work better for animals (or humans) that may be attacking from the sides.

Also may be faster for very close range, high stress engagements as you can just index on the barrel/scope alignment with both eyes open. (You won't have time to look for a crosshair).

Cooper was a soldier first, and a hunter second.
 
#14
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

I used a Marlin 1895 in .450 marlin, set up in a scout fashion for a good few years as my main Boar rifle. It worked a treat, the only reason i sold it was the straight stock, and lack of available synthetic stocks. I would have another in an instant if Hogue would make stocks for the 1895.
These days id set the scope in the normal possition, 1.5-6x42 S&B and mount a burris fast fire on a spare maount as a back up of for tight spots.

But the scout rifle is supposed to be a Bolt Action,. I like the look of the Ruger, exept its a Ruger,. I particularly like the underground skunworks BABR.. which for me, if you added a longer picatinny rail, would qualify as a scout configuration all be it maybe not down to the 3kg weight limit.

But a Scout configuration rifle, with the scope set back to the normal possition would make a damn good all round rifle for all European game. and you could probably stick night vision up front where the scout scope was..

Pete
 
#15
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Heavy caliber brush rifle, few as good. Its a tool that hangs all by itself and is well worn.

http://www.wildwestguns.com/tejonbear.html

http://www.wildwestguns.com/reviews.html

</div></div>

Wow, do those come with a coupon for free shoulder surgery after you fire them!?!!

Still, I wouldn't mind having one.
smile.gif
 
#16
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

I think it has always been a desire or need for a lot of collectors and shooters to want a durable ,do all rifle .
And for Ruger to come out with this is timely,except I still do not like the rear sight,even the Tech Sight replacement,it makes me want to scream.....

Some cannot afford a scope ,or prefer to use a rifle with out it,or with one ,as the need arises..
i do not know who coined or co opted the term scout rifle,but the term seems to fit..
Now if we just had an affordable bolt action rifle with some decent iron peep sights,may be one with the M1A sights,detach mag,etc......
 
#17
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

I confess to purchase of a Ruger scout also. After having shot a friends for a weekend, well, it was very handy for cruising around the ranch in the Mule. 308 cal made it easy to feed, seems as if the trigger is much improved over the usual Ruger M77 stuff.

Stuck one of RPG's cans on the end, had a 4x14 Ziess scope sitting there all alone, took the irons off it, it seems to go everywhere I do, and do what Ineed. Nice short barrel, accurate (enough, not a rifle for shooting tiny groups), but sighted in at 200 yards, I got pretty much any shot out to 300, right away.

I've got another short light rifle, same caliber, with HS Precision DBM. Like that rifle too, but.... it is mucho more expensive, I'll probably mod it to match the AI mags everything else I have uses. I just don't find myself reaching for the custom stick to rattle around the place with.

What BOTH these rifles need, is a light, solid, scope. Something simple, like a straight 8 or 10x. I like mil/mil scopes a lot, but I don't feature twisting knobs on these rifles much, rather just hold, so a decent mil-based reticle would be perfect. Keeping it simple, 1" tube, and short. And use rings, not the forward mount, that would be better suited for NV, chasing hogs after dark.

Yes, I am seeing more of these too, for pretty good reasons, I think.
 
#18
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Definitely seems like a DPMS "sportical" (or similar AR10) would outperform the typical scout rifle.

I recently checked out the Steyr, which I thought was pretty sweet, albeit a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.</div></div>

The $100-500 price gap may get some on the hook. While semi-auto is preferable, it is not a requirement.

I read an article a while back in a gun rag. It told of how semi-auto rifles have to some point caused a loss in a shooters ability to work a bolt rifle. This isnt a stab or a knock at semi-auto rifles in any way. But if you take a person whos complete portfolio revolves around an AR platform, put them behind a bolt gun, the lack of experience in bolt manipulation is very easy to spot. Some baby the bolt, fail to draw it back all the way, thus, not having a round in the chamber...ect. If you take the opposite, a person with a lot of bolt gun experience, you will see similar issues, usually with operating the controls and mag changes. I say learn all you can on everything you can.

As far as it being a Ruger, who cares???? I have had/handled some pretty accurate and reliable Rugers. I know Bill Ruger got into some bad politics, ones that I don't agree with, but that has not taken away from the product they make. I have shot sub-MOA M77s, a P89 and P90 that were accurate and built like a tank, and I am required to qualify with a Mini-14 (with no issues there). I know lots of people who depend on Rugers firearms. So the fact that there is a scout rifle made by them is irrelevent. Nearly everyone I have spoken to that have shot or own one didnt have one bad thing to say about it.
 
#19
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

The Ruger ignored the significance of the original configuration by going with AICS mags. I'm not sure if the scout concept was ever supposed to make use of stripper clips, but it certainly had top loading in mind. Since you can't top load the rifle as offered, why not provide the option of using a conventional scope?

In addition to that, I remember reading an American Rifleman review of the scout that said that they lost controlled round feed when they went with the single feed mags. Not a huge deal, but it would be kind of annoying to have a Mauser type action that doesn't have controlled feed.

If they'd designed it to use the double feed AW mags, and maybe had some interchangeable stripper clip guides so you could use Mauser or 1903 style clips to top off the mag, then I'd have bought one.
 
#21
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

Steyr scout fan here, I did replace the forward mounted scope with a conventionally mounted a 2X7. For me the forward mounted scope restricted the capabilities of this great little rifle. I'm sure the Ruger is a good rifle but I'll stick with the real thing.
 
#22
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

I think the definition of what a modern "Scout" rifle is can be tweaked as well. Wide ranging variable optics, piggy back red dots, shorter barrels that can hit out to 800 yds. plus, great ammo, solid detachable mag systems...progress and improvement.
 
#23
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

Here is what I think is a updated version of a scout rifle, it weighs in less then 8 pounds has a 14.5 inch barrel with fixed brake to make it 16, holds a 4 1/2 in group at 600 yards, carries really nice, has over 1500rds through it(the accustock is shot out/got the email from manners this week the new stock is ready)it was fairly cheap, and has been used for F class shoots, hunting, and just go to the range and have fun rifle.
short308001.jpg
 
#24
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

Someone hear me out on this.

Enfield Rifle (Converted to .308)
Shortened 16-20" varmint contour barrel
Synthetic Furniture
Forward scout rail
Sights are your choice, or keep the open ones.

If we think about it, it has the top-load capability for strip clips
If you pick up spare magazines, you can reload that way.
Rear-Locking bolt allows for fast cycling, yet reliability
Tough-As-Nails military design.
 
#25
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

Recently acquired the Savage Scout chambered for 7.62x39.

Mostly, though, I wanted it for a PPC-compatible bolt face, and it's the only rifle Savage offers in such a chambering. Within a day of getting it home, I had removed the Ghost Ring sights and Scout scope mount and replaced it all with conventional Weaver bases and rings and a 2.5-10 MilDot scope.

Shot surprisingly well with most ammo, and has prompted me to change my mind about handloading for the chambering. I'm beginning to suspect there could be some decent accuracy in there somewhere.

Greg
 
#26
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

AIA made something very close:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/01...0-a2-7-62-x-39/

They were sold for some time at Gander Mountain and other places, then their import was banned because they used Vietnamese wood in the stocks. Should have gotten one while they were still available.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Remoah</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Someone hear me out on this.

Enfield Rifle (Converted to .308)
Shortened 16-20" varmint contour barrel
Synthetic Furniture
Forward scout rail
Sights are your choice, or keep the open ones.

If we think about it, it has the top-load capability for strip clips
If you pick up spare magazines, you can reload that way.
Rear-Locking bolt allows for fast cycling, yet reliability
Tough-As-Nails military design. </div></div>
 
#28
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nhm16</div><div class="ubbcode-body">AIA made something very close:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/01...0-a2-7-62-x-39/

They were sold for some time at Gander Mountain and other places, then their import was banned because they used Vietnamese wood in the stocks. Should have gotten one while they were still available.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Remoah</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Someone hear me out on this.

Enfield Rifle (Converted to .308)
Shortened 16-20" varmint contour barrel
Synthetic Furniture
Forward scout rail
Sights are your choice, or keep the open ones.

If we think about it, it has the top-load capability for strip clips
If you pick up spare magazines, you can reload that way.
Rear-Locking bolt allows for fast cycling, yet reliability
Tough-As-Nails military design. </div></div> </div></div>

The local knowledge down here indicates that AIA are no longer in business. People struggle to get a hold of them here and there haven't been any new AIA rifles in a long time.

Rodney.
 
#30
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

The Scout rifle was a solution to a problem that didn't exist, but it's the <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">only</span></span> solution that was ever developed to solve that particular problem.

Well...30 years later, and the problem still doesn't exist, but more importantly, <span style="font-style: italic">no other solutions to the problem that are more ridiculous have been developed either!</span>

So that's why we still have Scout rifles today, and we're darn lucky to have them...the alternative is far worse.

TC
 
#31
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

@Rodney. I always used to hear of AIA in the shooting mags and stuff, they must've gone bust from all the advertising they paid for! Wasn't a bad concept mind you, but this is Australia, where .303 is arguably the most popular centrefire or would be right up there in sales along with .308's and .223's, so making a copy of a rifle we could already get for $300 and trying to flog it for $1000 musn't have worked, would've worked alot better in the US i'd say.

@Top_Cat, what is the problem you're talking of? Because to me the Scout rifle concept seems to stick out as a rifle that does a job already done by other firearms...
 
#32
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

I'm a fan of the scout rifle but at the same time I'm not. I don't like the forward mounted scope, as others said it washes out very easily in sunlight. I've shot both ways and I didn't find the forward mount scope got on target any faster than a scope in the right position.

I like a light compact rifle though. In the right form one of these rifles can be easily capable of 600 yard shots which is the farthest you should realistically need to shoot in any hunting situation. Plus it makes a nice compact mountain rifle that can be carried all day so a true all around hunting rifle.

I think ruger executed the gunsite rifle nicely. It has everything I would like in a scout rifle minus action. I just don't like ruger actions, they feel way too clanky. I've never heard of a problem with them, then again I don't know too many people shooting rugers and I don't. It's a personal thing, doesn't mean its a bad rifle, just I wouldn't buy one.
 
#33
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

on the picture above where did you get the stock? or was it a custom paint job? i have been searching high and low for a digital stock id like the woodland but the armys looks pretty good on your gun!
 
#34
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

TS, that's the standard Savage Accustock, available on the Precision Carbine in ACU Camo.

@Redneck.
I have an M77 II in 30-06. It's a nice rifle, however the action does leave alot to be desired. Accuracy just isn't on par with anything at the same price, it's a heavy action as well. I'd rather see it done by Remington and make it capable of those long-range shots.
I think the Savage 10 PC gives a better platform for the Scout concept, if you replace the magazine system and do the 20c bolt-lift mod, you'll have a more accurate, more useable platform.
 
#35
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

Forget the forward mounted scope. These days there are better options that offer all the speed of the ler scope with none of the low light eye box issues.

DSC08516.jpg
 
#36
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

Always an interesting topic. Col Cooper was working before the dawn of the Tactical and AR-15 Renaissance. Think a 6.5 Grendel upper, like a 20" Satern w/fluted barrel in float tube would've gotten his attention. Also the Winchester 70 Classic Compacts and FN-H Patrol rifles, which both feature the proven CRF receiver designs.

Then there are the Trijicon ACOGs with Bindon Aiming Concept
and up to 6.5x magnification, not to mention the preponderance of lit reticulae which in the late 80s were not even imagined unless you wanted a Bushnell or would shine a flashlight to charge the reticle.

The scout or intermediate relief scope is as others have said, "a problem in search of a solution"; exactly what Coop said about DA .45 triggers on a defense pistol.

A Win 70 stainless Classic CRF in .30-06 with a Buckmasters 4-14x in a factory molded stock weighs-in at 8.5lbs complete with sling. Probably save a quarter lb if go .308win in short action. Maybe choose another scope, but mil-dot side-focus Buckmaster Nikon is pretty decent, and it's a lightweight design.

Only forward mount scope I currently own is a carryhandle mount Trijicon Reflex w/13mm diamond reticle. That sight on a Service Rifle upper loaded with 75gr BTHP match ammunition enables a lot of versatility. Scout is as scout does.

Nice pix of the rifles above!
 
#37
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

Shorter, lighter rifles that are easy to carry, shoulder, and fire?
I think I heard of them before. they used to be called 'Carbines".

This whole "Scout Rifle" thing seems to me to be made for "recoil sensitive" shooters, like girls, to shoot designer cartridges like 7mm 08s.
 
#40
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rath</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
DSC08516.jpg
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body">@rath, that's a sweet stock! What kind of stock is it? </div></div>
that stock is actually a complete rifle. It's called the steyr scout.

Steyr Scout
 
#41
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Donttrytorun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shorter, lighter rifles that are easy to carry, shoulder, and fire?
I think I heard of them before. they used to be called 'Carbines".

This whole "Scout Rifle" thing seems to me to be made for "recoil sensitive" shooters, like girls, to shoot designer cartridges like 7mm 08s. </div></div>

You mean girls like Sherri Gallagher and Kim Dyer???

You're all wet, I've seen some damn good Lady Shooters.
 
#43
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Donttrytorun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shorter, lighter rifles that are easy to carry, shoulder, and fire?
I think I heard of them before. they used to be called 'Carbines".

This whole "Scout Rifle" thing seems to me to be made for "recoil sensitive" shooters, like girls, to shoot designer cartridges like 7mm 08s. </div></div>

Actually, because of the lighter overall weight, there is more recoil with a scout style rifle. With a sharper impulse.
 
#44
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rath</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
DSC08516.jpg
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body">@rath, that's a sweet stock! What kind of stock is it? </div></div>
that stock is actually a complete rifle. It's called the steyr scout.
Steyr Scout </div></div>
Ah, Steyr... I see, thanks! They certainly know how to make rifles.
 
#45
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rath</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forget the forward mounted scope. These days there are better options that offer all the speed of the ler scope with none of the low light eye box issues.

DSC08516.jpg
</div></div>

Yep.

A favorite of mine.

Tikka T3 Lite .308 chopped to 20"s and topped with a 2.5-10x24 Nightforce in Talley lightweights.

Toss some 5 round box mags in the pack and it is good to go.

001-10.jpg
 
#46
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

I like running red dots in the scout position, actually just picked up a 10/22 for a mini scout project.

Wouldnt say they are a solution to a problem that dosnt exist as many have stated at the time they gained speed the 308 gassers were few and far and either expensive (KAC) or unreliable as it seems to have taken a while for everybody but KAC to dial out the quirks of a 308 AR.

Anyways the idea was for a fast handling bush rifle with the idea of dangerous game (Think Safari) in mind. Also remembering back to that time there were not many offerings in the way of red dots, aimpoints were around but not the mil versions of today and the other options were Trijicon reflex and Armson OEG's to which I would still prefer a scout scope over either.

Sure if Col Cooper was still with us he would be messing with Sasquach while rocking an MWS.

As to why the resurgence...some would argue it never really went away, Ruger is about the only new one that comes to mind.
 
#47
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

Because the cross hairs are on what ever your looking at when you sholder the rifle?

Shot a buck last saturday morning with an 1895G guide gun in 45-70 with a burris 2.75X scout scope.

It was a moving target quartering away.

This was the first trip into the field for my new favorite rifle.
 
#48
Re: why the resurgence of the scout rifle?

Just started load development for the Savage Scout 7.62x39. First rounds off the rest with a 2.5-10x42 Tasco in a conventional mount on a windy day showed nothing especially interesting. Horizontal was spread out, but one load showed vertical spread well under an inch. This is with 6 or 8 round groups using PMC brass, CCI-200 primers, 110gr V-Max, and near max loads of IMR-4198, stepping down as we go. Next batch of loads will continue the downward charge progression.

This rifle is intended to serve my 15 y/o Granddaugther as a practice mule, maybe a limited distance deer hunter with SRA 125gr Pro-Hunter bullets, and maybe an FV200 rifle if the load development delivers adequate acuracy.

I really like the Accu-Trigger and the Accu-Stock on this rifle. The 20.5" barrel is very wieldy in closer quarters, probably near an ideal length for the chambering, and the overall packeage's weight, balance, performance, and lighter recoil all tend to make the choice a more preferable one.

Meanwhile, my .260 mod 10 Predator Hunter Max I is already shooting sub moa without any load development, and has that sporty looking Camo Accu-Stock (and decent feeling Accu-Trigger) that's on the Precision Carbine. I think of it as the carbine with a better chambering and a longer barrel/reach. All-up, it runs around 10lb, not bad for a general utility rifle with a 24" relatively heftier barrel.

Greg
 
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