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Why we can't have nice things,

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That this marvelous sport could conceivably grow to this extent: The reason an international series is helpful is because Olympic level sports adds tremendous credibility to the shooting sports. This makes it much harder to deny there are "sporting purposes" to our equipment and supplies. Very helpful when we're fighting against increased regulation of our pastimes...is, it seems to me highly desirable. I'm pretty new to precision rifle shooting and have found so many people so very helpful. Top-notch facilities have been, it seems to me, few and far between and I'm heartened this seems to be changing.

K&M, Altus, Gunline, Gunsite et al (more coming on line) are fine facilities and I'm grateful they are available. I do understand how someone who's invested so much time and money into a facility like K&M would be protective of what he and his wife have built and how ideas of expanding and growing the sport beyond what PRS and NRL have managed to do so far is treated skeptically. And the Wuhan/Covid scourge hasn't helped. I am disheartened at the divisiveness I'm now seeing in the shooting community, as in our country. Aren't we all?

So what could the precision rifle community look like? Someone mentioned State =>Regional=>National=>International structure. This makes sense and would naturally require rules and Courses of Fire such that competing at the State/local level would challenge shooters in the same way as they would be challenged in an International match...so what does that mean? What does it look like? Precision Rifle shooting is something like golf (we've all seen that meme) and competitors play different courses (some courses much harder than others) that also change a bit from year to year.

Apart from COF infrastructure, which changes from facility to facility, there would also need to be a unifying/standard scoring methodology (which we have in the case of Practiscore (are there others?)) infrastructure such that shooters who do well at 'sanctioned' local/state matches can move up to Regional matches and so on.

So if this sport is to grow to International levels, as conceived, logically there would need to be a governing body to ensure all levels are using the same operational/scoring rules. And surely there would be other 'hygienic' matters to address...and the bureaucracy would grow too! Given that PRS is currently the largest such organization it behooves PRS leadership to make an effort to be a part of any effort to grow the sport to the extent proposed. But this won't happen if acrimony and name calling rules/ruins the efforts.

It seems to me what first has to happen is to envision what such an exponentially larger Precision Rifle community would look like. If the community would like to see shooting sports expand in the Olympics (I'm likely missing what is already included in the Olympics) it would likely be similar to other Olympic disciplines - so Three gun, Two gun, Precision Rifle (several iterations - team matches etc.) .22 PR etc. Analogous to different events within Gymnastics etc. Each of which now have, to greater or lesser degrees, grass roots and national efforts underway.

Ok, so can we envision such a structure? I think we all can and would love to see it happen, but it won't happen with all the squabbling. But that begs the question: how do you get private business people whose livelihoods depend on what they've built to come to the table to discuss such an undertaking? Is it realistic to expect them to give up what they've invested so much time and money into without ensuring that their efforts are not wasted and that all shooters continue to benefit from their training and access to their facilities, and that their businesses continue to grow? I don't think so. None of us, if we're honest, and put ourselves in Shannon's and others' shoes would want them to loose all they've worked for, especially since his (and others') efforts have contributed so mightily to the growth of the Precision Rifle sport.

So my suggestion is count to ten, breathe, develop a starting agenda, agreed-upon concepts and goals and invite those concerned to the table to work out how to cooperatively grow this sport such that local/state, regional, national, international matches can take place on a periodic basis. National matches like the Armageddon Gear Cup happen annually, International matches happen say every two years...whatever, there are so many smart people in this sport it can be worked out. We need proper leaders who seek to unify and bring people together not drive them apart. Maybe someone call Jocko? :) I hope I don't regret posting this. So risky speaking up.
 
I think the main takeaway is,

We all say out loud, we want to grow the sport, but that has become a catch phrase for some more than an actual mission statement

I want to grow the sport but if you don't play ball me with me, you won't play ball with us. Open the door, make adjustments for the changes in both the community and how we engage the targets today.

This is still grassroots, you can make bold changes, you can address high level issues, you can be introspective, recognize where things work and where they do not.

Growing the sport, especially as a Series doesn't just mean you had a handful of new members. You're participation is still low compared to the sign ups, the numbers are out there. 600 people, stop lying about it. There are spreadsheets on FB with a complete breakdown of the entire seasons. who did what, the numbers are smoke and mirrors.
 
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Doesn't it seem like the structure of local matches, regional, national, international under one international governing board works successfully for IPSC? That's going on a 45 year run. Most every country fields a team, even Japan practices with airsoft. Perhaps there are concepts that can be borrowed from that. It's run as close to an Olympic sport as I've seen without being one.
 
The reason an international series is helpful is because Olympic level sports adds tremendous credibility to the shooting sports. This makes it much harder to deny there are "sporting purposes" to our equipment and supplies. Very helpful when we're fighting against increased regulation of our pastimes.
The guy from SA brought IPSC up as an example. I wonder if working with them as an international sanctioning organization has ever been considered/pursued for Precision Rifle. Heck of a reputation and existing framework with that organization. Multi gun competition is under them now, and I remember when 3 gun wasn't a thing. It seems like a workable solution. Maybe I'm missing something.
 
and right there is the reason PRS able to be held hostage by one person and one location.

it’s being run like a 1950’s candy store and no one cares as long as they can shoot.
I don’t think that’s a completely fair assessment. Because we’re not loyal to anyone. We’re just going to show up to shoot and have fun. We don’t care if Shannon or *insert name of someone else here* falls off a bridge tomorrow.
 
Shannan Claimed that they have started a "prs" brand in New Zealand, that's news to me and all the MD's I have dealt with.
 
Why do we need a governing body or sanctioning organization at all?
Because one is necessary to standardize the sport between different countries and present shooting as a Olympic style sport, like IPSC, even if the Olympics themselves might be a reach. This allows us to circumvent the "no sporting purposes" argument used to regulate and ban our game.
 
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Because one is necessary to standardize the sport between different countries and present shooting as a Olympic style sport, like IPSC, even if the Olympics themselves might be a reach. This allows us to circumvent the "no sporting purposes" argument used to regulate and ban our game.

Who the hell is trying to make precision rifle matches an Olympic sport? LOL There is no need to standardize anything.
 
That this marvelous sport could conceivably grow to this extent: The reason an international series is helpful is because Olympic level sports adds tremendous credibility to the shooting sports. This makes it much harder to deny there are "sporting purposes" to our equipment and supplies. Very helpful when we're fighting against increased regulation of our pastimes...is, it seems to me highly desirable. I'm pretty new to precision rifle shooting and have found so many people so very helpful. Top-notch facilities have been, it seems to me, few and far between and I'm heartened this seems to be changing.

K&M, Altus, Gunline, Gunsite et al (more coming on line) are fine facilities and I'm grateful they are available. I do understand how someone who's invested so much time and money into a facility like K&M would be protective of what he and his wife have built and how ideas of expanding and growing the sport beyond what PRS and NRL have managed to do so far is treated skeptically. And the Wuhan/Covid scourge hasn't helped. I am disheartened at the divisiveness I'm now seeing in the shooting community, as in our country. Aren't we all?

So what could the precision rifle community look like? Someone mentioned State =>Regional=>National=>International structure. This makes sense and would naturally require rules and Courses of Fire such that competing at the State/local level would challenge shooters in the same way as they would be challenged in an International match...so what does that mean? What does it look like? Precision Rifle shooting is something like golf (we've all seen that meme) and competitors play different courses (some courses much harder than others) that also change a bit from year to year.

Apart from COF infrastructure, which changes from facility to facility, there would also need to be a unifying/standard scoring methodology (which we have in the case of Practiscore (are there others?)) infrastructure such that shooters who do well at 'sanctioned' local/state matches can move up to Regional matches and so on.

So if this sport is to grow to International levels, as conceived, logically there would need to be a governing body to ensure all levels are using the same operational/scoring rules. And surely there would be other 'hygienic' matters to address...and the bureaucracy would grow too! Given that PRS is currently the largest such organization it behooves PRS leadership to make an effort to be a part of any effort to grow the sport to the extent proposed. But this won't happen if acrimony and name calling rules/ruins the efforts.

It seems to me what first has to happen is to envision what such an exponentially larger Precision Rifle community would look like. If the community would like to see shooting sports expand in the Olympics (I'm likely missing what is already included in the Olympics) it would likely be similar to other Olympic disciplines - so Three gun, Two gun, Precision Rifle (several iterations - team matches etc.) .22 PR etc. Analogous to different events within Gymnastics etc. Each of which now have, to greater or lesser degrees, grass roots and national efforts underway.

Ok, so can we envision such a structure? I think we all can and would love to see it happen, but it won't happen with all the squabbling. But that begs the question: how do you get private business people whose livelihoods depend on what they've built to come to the table to discuss such an undertaking? Is it realistic to expect them to give up what they've invested so much time and money into without ensuring that their efforts are not wasted and that all shooters continue to benefit from their training and access to their facilities, and that their businesses continue to grow? I don't think so. None of us, if we're honest, and put ourselves in Shannon's and others' shoes would want them to loose all they've worked for, especially since his (and others') efforts have contributed so mightily to the growth of the Precision Rifle sport.

So my suggestion is count to ten, breathe, develop a starting agenda, agreed-upon concepts and goals and invite those concerned to the table to work out how to cooperatively grow this sport such that local/state, regional, national, international matches can take place on a periodic basis. National matches like the Armageddon Gear Cup happen annually, International matches happen say every two years...whatever, there are so many smart people in this sport it can be worked out. We need proper leaders who seek to unify and bring people together not drive them apart. Maybe someone call Jocko? :) I hope I don't regret posting this. So risky speaking up.


Your first mistake is....Shannon didn't build shit in regards to the PRS. A lot of people took a lot of time and built it up before he got his hooks into it. And the story of how he got ownership is a fun one.

Shannon is anything but Unify unless its you kneeling down to him.
 
Why do we need a governing body or sanctioning organization at all?
Such a thing, like any bureaucracy, is a slippery slope and tends to take on a life of its own. Look at Formula 1, the PGA, NBA, NFL et al. On the other hand, no organizing structure could lead to a chaotic mess with no underlying unifying set of rules, typical courses of fire etc.. Regional leagues the auspices under which shooter's compete at regional sites might work, but what about those who want to travel to and compete at other regional matches? Like golf, perhaps just a bunch of matches that make up a tour at the end of which is a 'championship' match. The Armageddon Gear Cup is somewhat like that now. You have to shoot at qualifier matches to make the invitation cut to shoot in the Cup. This works and seems to be growing...though I doubt I'll ever shoot it, it's great that it's growing.

Otherwise just getting out and shooting 1-day and 2-day matches is great, and if you don't care how you stand against other shooters all the more fun and no sanctioning organization is needed. Just fair RO'ing and scoring. The other matches, besides the typical PR match, team matches where you have to move long distances and shoot unmarked targets, carrying rucksacks etc.., et al make for an interesting mix. But if you want a more formal structure wherein you are compared to other shooters some standardization is necessary.
 
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Why do we need a governing body or sanctioning organization at all?
To answer for myself personally, we don't. I just like to shoot. I'll likely only ever shoot one day events within a couple hours drive. I don't give a rip if they are PRS or NRL. My IPSC question was just a thought I had since the international guys seem to be pursuing a "world championship" type event. It just seems to me to be more logical to work with an existing organization than start from scratch.
 
Your first mistake is....Shannon didn't build shit in regards to the PRS. A lot of people took a lot of time and built it up before he got his hooks into it. And the story of how he got ownership is a fun one.

Shannon is anything but Unify unless its you kneeling down to him.
I didn't know that as I'm pretty new to the sport. So my experience is limited. I do know the K&M facility is a fine place to shoot and, personalities notwithstanding, the training and competition experiences there have been excellent. I'm ignorant of all the shenanigans that happened before I got involved. I would be interested in knowing the ownership story but everyone is tight lipped.
 
We are too small to box up and label. Let each match be something new different

I say we get back to the tactical side of the house. And let start fighting with our rifles again

Make it

NATO caliber
Open caliber
 
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Why do we need a governing body or sanctioning organization at all?
Because guys that like to work harder at avoiding work rather than just getting the work done have to eat too.
 
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Why do we need a governing body or sanctioning organization at all?
You probably dont but it does help in countries that getting and keeping nice thing can be an issue. The New Zealand sports bosses does consider anything a real sport unless you can win a world championship in it even then sometimes they still dont support it..
 
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You probably dont but it does help in countries that getting and keeping nice thing can be an issue. The New Zealand sports bosses does consider anything a real sport unless you can win a world championship in it even then sometimes they still dont support it..
Well then NZ should have one but here it's not needed for that use.
 
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I’m curious what the exact line items of our sport that need to be grown? What exactly does everyone want to see “grow”.
 
There is nothing “standard” about the “real” shooting that spawned this sport. Standardizing the sport defies logic. The beauty is the lack of standardization. Other than obvious safety related necessities, a single rule is all that is needed. Don’t be a dick. If you break the rule, guess what, the MD votes you off the island.
 
There is nothing “standard” about the “real” shooting that spawned this sport. Standardizing the sport defies logic. The beauty is the lack of standardization. Other than obvious safety related necessities, a single rule is all that is needed. Don’t be a dick. If you break the rule, guess what, the MD votes you off the island.

Spoken like someone who knew this was a sport before the PRS ;)
 
I understand it helps the international community, so it’s reason enough to compromise and open the door to a different method.

At the same time I Think we have room, enough locations to run various Nomads at the different venues.

people are bored with the repetition, people don’t want to built barricade bench rest rifles, they want field skills and Practical Application stages not to compete in clown shoes. Sure one carnival stage can be fun, 15 contrived stages is lame.

you can standardize the high level stuff, slap the right amount of rules to keep it from being an engineer race, while giving the MD the flexibility to shine.
 
You must obey the fuhrer or you will feel the wrath of him and his minions.....
Theres so much behind the scenes that it would make most peoples heads explode, no one single post/thread/comment can even come close to revealing all of the horse shit that has gone on and is currently going on. Jockeying for social status, followers, pieces of a non existent pie, its ridiculous. This isnt about range owners, MD's or anyone else, its solely based on control plain and simple.
 
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people are bored with the repetition, people don’t want to built barricade bench rest rifles, they want field skills and Practical Application stages not to compete in clown shoes. Sure one carnival stage can be fun, 15 contrived stages is lame.


This. I am so glad that early in my precision shooting I decided prs style comps were not for me. The fucking jerseys and prize tables and egos and hyper competitiveness were none of the things I enjoyed in shooting, nor prs style comps anything I wanted to excel in.

I spend my money and time on training, sniper challenges and field matches.
 
You can’t introduce the World to a style of shooting, then say no when you learn the rules everyone else operates under.

as they mentioned, you have to check certain boxes to satisfy government restrictions. They don’t have a 2A.

minor compromises to create some standard features for our particular shooting style.
 
This. I am so glad that early in my precision shooting I decided prs style comps were not for me. The fucking jerseys and prize tables and egos and hyper competitiveness were none of the things I enjoyed in shooting, nor prs style comps anything I wanted to excel in.

I spend my money and time on training, sniper challenges and field matches.

You would have had fun before 2012.
 
So anyone gonna start a local match near Clarksville, TN.

Preference 2 drive from my door step and starts at 8 am ends at 3 pm.

Since, we are all living in fucking Bizarro world.
Aren’t they having some in cookeville? Someone told me they were
 
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I'm hoping we see more of these stand alone matches like what chaz over at warhorse just announced the other day with his Devils Brigade series over in Montana. Lower costs, field style/practical shooting matches and no prize tables will keep some of these guys away that all they want is that trinket from the table. Personally I don't really care about the prizes, I just want to shoot and push myself to get better each time and enjoy a day or two of shooting with other guys that enjoy the same thing and the only thing at stake is some bragging rights with buddies. I'm not counting on it but we could all hope that this is a wakeup call too those that need it that the base of "their" sport is getting tired of the good old boys club and all the posturing for clout sponsors and whatever other bs that passes for goals for them.
 
You can’t make this shit up... “keep off the grass” ... that you competitors all paid for... let’s give an affiliate sponsor shooter 1st place over some bs contrived rule... or better yet, let’s have a pro / am and allow pro / pro teams 🤣

On a more serious note, I’m all for a summit to hash things out, BUT only if it’s done live in front of all the competitors to see and give feedback on. it could be more then one day/meeting, like a week long “live” event from 5-7pm with an invite list of people who are heavily involved with the sport AND open it up to public discussion! write it all down and then the summit can go over the data. just my $.02
 
It is unbelievable to me that a business owner would put such petty, vindictive words in an email regarding personalities and competitors in such a small community. Is it arrogance or stupidity? I don't really get it, but it makes it easy to vote with my pocketbook.

I really like the concept of the Western Precision Rifle series that was discussed on MDS and Everyday Sniper podcasts with Phil and Pete. One day regional matches, no prize table, trophies for the podium shooters and money going to a worthy charity. This model totally makes sense right now as things get back up to speed and the supply chain catches up. Too bad I am so far from Montana or Wyoming.

I just want shoot some steel, have some laughs, talk some shit and have a beer with the fellas when it is done. Is that too much to ask?
 
That this marvelous sport could conceivably grow to this extent: The reason an international series is helpful is because Olympic level sports adds tremendous credibility to the shooting sports. This makes it much harder to deny there are "sporting purposes" to our equipment and supplies. Very helpful when we're fighting against increased regulation of our pastimes...is, it seems to me highly desirable. I'm pretty new to precision rifle shooting and have found so many people so very helpful. Top-notch facilities have been, it seems to me, few and far between and I'm heartened this seems to be changing.

K&M, Altus, Gunline, Gunsite et al (more coming on line) are fine facilities and I'm grateful they are available. I do understand how someone who's invested so much time and money into a facility like K&M would be protective of what he and his wife have built and how ideas of expanding and growing the sport beyond what PRS and NRL have managed to do so far is treated skeptically. And the Wuhan/Covid scourge hasn't helped. I am disheartened at the divisiveness I'm now seeing in the shooting community, as in our country. Aren't we all?

So what could the precision rifle community look like? Someone mentioned State =>Regional=>National=>International structure. This makes sense and would naturally require rules and Courses of Fire such that competing at the State/local level would challenge shooters in the same way as they would be challenged in an International match...so what does that mean? What does it look like? Precision Rifle shooting is something like golf (we've all seen that meme) and competitors play different courses (some courses much harder than others) that also change a bit from year to year.

Apart from COF infrastructure, which changes from facility to facility, there would also need to be a unifying/standard scoring methodology (which we have in the case of Practiscore (are there others?)) infrastructure such that shooters who do well at 'sanctioned' local/state matches can move up to Regional matches and so on.

So if this sport is to grow to International levels, as conceived, logically there would need to be a governing body to ensure all levels are using the same operational/scoring rules. And surely there would be other 'hygienic' matters to address...and the bureaucracy would grow too! Given that PRS is currently the largest such organization it behooves PRS leadership to make an effort to be a part of any effort to grow the sport to the extent proposed. But this won't happen if acrimony and name calling rules/ruins the efforts.

It seems to me what first has to happen is to envision what such an exponentially larger Precision Rifle community would look like. If the community would like to see shooting sports expand in the Olympics (I'm likely missing what is already included in the Olympics) it would likely be similar to other Olympic disciplines - so Three gun, Two gun, Precision Rifle (several iterations - team matches etc.) .22 PR etc. Analogous to different events within Gymnastics etc. Each of which now have, to greater or lesser degrees, grass roots and national efforts underway.

Ok, so can we envision such a structure? I think we all can and would love to see it happen, but it won't happen with all the squabbling. But that begs the question: how do you get private business people whose livelihoods depend on what they've built to come to the table to discuss such an undertaking? Is it realistic to expect them to give up what they've invested so much time and money into without ensuring that their efforts are not wasted and that all shooters continue to benefit from their training and access to their facilities, and that their businesses continue to grow? I don't think so. None of us, if we're honest, and put ourselves in Shannon's and others' shoes would want them to loose all they've worked for, especially since his (and others') efforts have contributed so mightily to the growth of the Precision Rifle sport.

So my suggestion is count to ten, breathe, develop a starting agenda, agreed-upon concepts and goals and invite those concerned to the table to work out how to cooperatively grow this sport such that local/state, regional, national, international matches can take place on a periodic basis. National matches like the Armageddon Gear Cup happen annually, International matches happen say every two years...whatever, there are so many smart people in this sport it can be worked out. We need proper leaders who seek to unify and bring people together not drive them apart. Maybe someone call Jocko? :) I hope I don't regret posting this. So risky speaking up.
Please read Rob's response it sums up the international issues perfectly. Bottom line is a privately owned entity with out elections and a constitution will never be recognized at the international level. PRS, NRL, Border Wars, CD matches SH cup would be Adidas, Nike, Reebok and Puma. Athletic brands but not the sport
 
It is unbelievable to me that a business owner would put such petty, vindictive words in an email regarding personalities and competitors in such a small community. Is it arrogance or stupidity? I don't really get it, but it makes it easy to vote with my pocketbook.

I really like the concept of the Western Precision Rifle series that was discussed on MDS and Everyday Sniper podcasts with Phil and Pete. One day regional matches, no prize table, trophies for the podium shooters and money going to a worthy charity. This model totally makes sense right now as things get back up to speed and the supply chain catches up. Too bad I am so far from Montana or Wyoming.

I just want shoot some steel, have some laughs, talk some shit and have a beer with the fellas when it is done. Is that too much to ask?

Sounds like my kind of match. Prize tables really do seem to bring out the worst in people.
 
Doesn't it seem like the structure of local matches, regional, national, international under one international governing board works successfully for IPSC? That's going on a 45 year run. Most every country fields a team, even Japan practices with airsoft. Perhaps there are concepts that can be borrowed from that. It's run as close to an Olympic sport as I've seen without being one.
We copied a lot of stuff from IPSC to include the constitution and structure.
 
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I wonder if Soccer ever had this much headache during its early beginnings as an international sport. Are we not looking at existing international sports structures and modeling something after that?
 
Why do we need an international series?

It’s hard enough trying to get supplies right now, registering for a match before it’s full, getting a barrel from the manufacturer or smith, etc.

Global popularity will wreck the supply line as we’ve seen in the last 5 years just from US popularity and do nothing more than put money into others pockets.

idk I’m not convinced we need an international series. (Not that my opinion matters.). This sport has grown enough already.
supply issues appear to be almost entirely domestic. Not nearly the same demand for this stuff elsewhere.
 
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This is why we can't have nice things,

I talked about a lot of inside ball over the years in regards to competitions. As noted many times, this is not new, not even the idea of a series. In the early 2000s there was a series attempt and it failed. Part of the problem is growth and being forward thinking enough to understand, nobody owns this game. The idea that one group is in charge of Precision Rifle Competition is silly on its face, and insulting when you understand the history.

When the PRS started in 2012 it was on the heels of what Jacob and I were doing at Rifles Only. Sure there was other matches here and there. In a typical year back in 2004 you might have 4 two day matches. Each one of those matches might have 50 shooters. The rules, the format, everything was flexible it was just a group of like minded people enjoying a hobby. As the community grew, in part because of Sniper's Hide, it was where everyone hung before the FB Groups, we discussed, coordinated, debated, and argued about what we are doing.

The joint Sniper's Hide / Rifles Only matches set the standard, but that standard needs to change. The idea you could build a series around this game is flawed. We have too many individuals with to big of personalities to manage a one size fits all approach. The conflicts of the past divided the shooter community into East & West, North & South, Affiliated and Nomad. It's time for a change.

2020 was a mess, Countries shut down, everyone on hold, but we managed.

We need to reflect as a group and have a big reset. The mindset and reasonings have changed, the equipment has evolved, the locations have grown and adapted into something nobody really likes. We all recognize the benefit of competition shooting, but we also have to acknowledge the damage it has caused on across the board. Nothing we do is set in stone, there is no Association that oversees what we do, no governing board that requires we vote to change directions. We are still grassroots despite the money we bring in, and put out. So changes are really easy, you just have to agree to consider them.

I think the regions are the answer, we can't have a National Governing Body in the United States. It's too fractured, broke, and beyond repair. Besides who really owns this... nobody. Before going too far forward, my thoughts are create Regional groups of like minded people. Determine your own rules and standards, and then if you have to test your work, find other regions to compete against. The Nationals Stage is broken beyond repair, it will never serve the community as a whole when it designed to enrich only a select few.

Recently on the Everyday Sniper Podcast I have been talking to people about this very thing. Creating Regional Divisions for people to compete under. Those regions are working together to cut out the National organizations because of the in-fighting taking place. It's a natural thing when the big stage no longer works for the individual they will just build a community one for the locals to enjoy. As I have noted many, many times, I have turned into the Complaint Department for the Competition Series. The Series wants to control the message so the competitors find other avenues to get the message out. I happen to be that sympathetic ear. This stated, I have some communication between Shannon and the PRS in response to the International Precision Rifle Federation.

The response from the IPRF will make it clear the inside ball, it will answer those questions the first email might not. So read both:

PRS Email First :




So they reached out to the various groups to Invite the PRS to send a Team to Compete, that was the answer above and here is their response below



We are doomed to failure if we continue down this path.

I think we need a Summit here in the United States, one that sits all interested parties down for a minimum of 2 days. One that hammers out the objectives of this community. One that puts to rest the infighting and disorganization, if a group does not want to play ball with the rest, that group can be an Island alone. From here changes can be made to reset things in a positive direction. Plenty of smart people engage in this activity we have more than enough examples to pick and choose from in order to build a better mousetrap. The direction things are currently moving on the big stage are short for this world. We can grow the sport together, or we can work without certain individuals and operate around them in other ways. This is not something one person should claim to own. We are barely playing with .1% right now, growing it together would be huge.

There is the individual good, and the greater good. Today it's a bunch of individuals claiming to be working for the greater good, we all know that is bullshit to include me. We fractured and broke years ago and have been playing games ever since. Time to fix it or forget it and move on to something better.
Just, wow.
 
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You can’t make this shit up... “keep off the grass” ... that you competitors all paid for... let’s give an affiliate sponsor shooter 1st place over some bs contrived rule... or better yet, let’s have a pro / am and allow pro / pro teams 🤣

On a more serious note, I’m all for a summit to hash things out, BUT only if it’s done live in front of all the competitors to see and give feedback on. it could be more then one day/meeting, like a week long “live” event from 5-7pm with an invite list of people who are heavily involved with the sport AND open it up to public discussion! write it all down and then the summit can go over the data. just my $.02
I’m gonna take it a step farther and request a gangs of New York style battle with all the groups that have beef with each other. Last group standing is king of precision rifle shooting.
 
Speaking from “the base”, or just an average full-time working American that likes to shoot on the weekends, WE JUST LIKE TO SHOOT! I’m tired of hearing the bitching from the top down. I shoot PRS and NRL because at points in the year they’re “local” to me. I could care less what three letter organization it falls under. We just like to see our friends and be competitive. The leaders are what’s tearing it apart. Get the dollar signs out of your eyes and swallow your ego and just work together to “support” the shooters instead of yourselves.
Nicely said...
 
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Hi,

This is the EXACT situation we see/seen with the ELR growth.

For decades it was pretty much all about pushing boundaries however someone wanted to but when certain companies seen potential to hook their wagon to things...shit got stupid real fast.

This rule, that rule, this weeks rule, next years rule, etc etc

"We" are the controlling organization for all things ELR, no "We" are the controlling organization for all things ELR....

Each and every single one were and are out for nothing more than their own biased reasons....and that is bottom line.

Sincerely,
Theis
Who needs uniform rules? Who needs a controlling organization of any kind? I never saw the point. Show up to the match and shoot the stages. Solve the problem the MD puts in front of you, and for heaven's sake don't "gouge" anyone when you are selling your reloading supplies...;)
 
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Bingo! Not sure why we need ANY organization. The ranges running matchs now will continue. I don't want or need anyone to keep track of my scores or have a finale. Bottom line is there were fun matches(actually more fun) before any "organization" and there will be after. I just act like they aren't there because they really don't effect me at all.
This X infinity... Folks who are looking to "organize" things may just have profit as their primary motive...
 
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