I am an old guy and want would like to buy a new Tikka CTR 24"by in caliber 223. I shoot at only to outdoor ranges. One has paper at 100yds and steel clinkers at 200 and 300 yards. The other has paper out to 600yds and steel at 100yds to 880yds. I do not want to shoot beyond 600yds. I am thinking about a Leupold Mark Mod 1 4-12x40mm 1 inch tube MIL DOT Reticle with 0.1 MIL elevation and windage correction sku 115392. It weighs about 15oz. I do not want a heavy big scope. I am trying to keep the rifle and scope to about 9lbs. I have comorbidities but hope to shoot a few more years. My eyesight is just ok and shooting with a red or green dot optic is great, however, those lights do not seem to work with most illuminated scopes. I would appreciate any advise on this combination.
- Thread starter charliebrown1999
- Start date
It will certainly work at those distances.
I think u should be fine. Your groups might suffer a little at 500 -600 with the small tube diameter and light gathering especially in the evening. Other wise if the scope dials enough elevation no problem, if not u might have to use hold overs
If getting adequate elevation becomes an issue, use a 20MOA mount or rail to give you a bit more flexibility, and keep reticle more centered in tube.
Unless it’s really cold, and or humid where you’re at, you should be well above transonic range at 600...should be fine with consistency for the rifle, depending on gr weight and bc of your chosen ammo. I would be curious to see if you do have enough elevation in the scope. Did some quick calculations to see what your drop range might be, and it seems like you would need about 9 minutes of elevation...though I’m a mil guy so I may have did the math wrong in my head. Someone call me on that estimate if I’m way off please. Good luck with your new toys!
The 223 will work fine at 600 - I shoot F class T/R with mine. I can get some 10's and a few X's too. ( 6" 10 ring - 3" X ring). You'll learn about wind effects too... alot. If you can, go up in power on the scope to 20 to 25 power and 30mm tube (my eyes are 70 + years and need that power.). First focal plane would nice too. I have a Cabelas' Covenant 7 in FFP 5-35 mil-mil and it's only about $400. Going on second year with zero problems. Mirage may make you turn it down - depending on conditions, but you'll like 25 power - better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
Hope that helps.
Hope that helps.
Ditto on the ranges. I have 16 inch AR that I shoot out to 800 yards without problem using a 1-4x optic. With a bolt action with that long of a barrel you will definitely have a capable rifle. As far as the optic is concerned that's really up to you and in my opinion needs more definition. If it's an option I would go look through some various optics in person. If there is the option to do so look at things at range and see what you think. A local to me store has a big wide open space and they will let you walk to the front and look through scopes at various distances.
Also it's going to depend on the type of shooting you want to do. If you are going out to be social and live the life of a retiree picking up chicks then you have a lot more options. If you are like some folks they still get somewhat 'competitive' even with things like shooting groups or whatnot then that could impact your decision on optics. Same as with dialing up vs hold overs (or a combination).
Again, it in my opinion needs more definition of what kind of shooter you are/want to be.
Another thing that you didn't mention is if you reload or not. Ammo is a big deal and ".223" is a wide net that covers a ton of ground. I mention that because if your goal is to just bang on the steel with factory ammo that's one thing, but if you are trying to get groups that's another. Basically my point is it's not whether or not a specific component will work or not, but rather will they work TOGETHER for you?
It's been my experience that if I start with a goal in mind, then I see if the ammo I want to use (including reloads) works for that goal, and then after that start looking at optics and rifles.
Also it's going to depend on the type of shooting you want to do. If you are going out to be social and live the life of a retiree picking up chicks then you have a lot more options. If you are like some folks they still get somewhat 'competitive' even with things like shooting groups or whatnot then that could impact your decision on optics. Same as with dialing up vs hold overs (or a combination).
Again, it in my opinion needs more definition of what kind of shooter you are/want to be.
Another thing that you didn't mention is if you reload or not. Ammo is a big deal and ".223" is a wide net that covers a ton of ground. I mention that because if your goal is to just bang on the steel with factory ammo that's one thing, but if you are trying to get groups that's another. Basically my point is it's not whether or not a specific component will work or not, but rather will they work TOGETHER for you?
It's been my experience that if I start with a goal in mind, then I see if the ammo I want to use (including reloads) works for that goal, and then after that start looking at optics and rifles.
Solid advice for sure...one must always consider the destination before deciding on which path to take. Like you said, .223 covers so many bullet weights/barrel twist and mv must be considered as well. While production ammo is fairly consistent in the higher end, the group size you’re shooting for will determine many factors. He may well want higher magnification than was described in the OP. Reloading may need to be on the table as well. All said, i agree we need more information on the end-goal and shooter to give more specific advice.
Depending on your ammo selection you are supersonic to 750 to 800 yards, maybe a little more with the 24 inch barrel.
That’s what I was seeing on the engine I was using as well, though with super hot loads and high BC pills, some looked to hit transonic just after 1000.
He definitely needs a better scope. I’ve heard mixed reviews on the vortex strike eagle 5-25x. I almost bought one but went with the viper pst gen 2 instead. The Athlon Argos is in his price range and the glass is crystal clear. The tracking is spot on and is offered in Mil /Mil or moa/moa. The leupold he mentioned is nowhere near the scope as either one. Leupold is just cashing in on name recognition. Just saying
OP I too recommend the Athlon Argos BTR Gen2 6-24x50. It's loaded with features and has decent glass.
people do a lot more with a lot less inside 600yards especially considering the difference between a PST G2 and the SE 5-25 seems to be very minor from those who have extended experience with both
i think a lot of people were expecting near razor quality from a $500 scope or have just become so jaded by $3500 scopes that it didn't do everything the same
All my research plus phone call to the tech at Leupold confirms that this scope is MIL/MIL which is preferable for me. It has 67MOA of elevation. Depending on your sight height above center of bore is 33.5 MOA up and 33.5 MOA down. I am hope to for a sight height of 1.5 inches so think I will have enough elevation with a 0 MOA picatinny rail, which is standard on the CTR, to reach 600yds. The tech at Leupold did not know why the elevation was measured in MOA.
The elevation adjustment on the turret is moa. The reticles subtensions are in miliradians. Therefore it’s a mil/moa scope. If your holding over with your reticle you’ll need to do so in mils. If your using the turrets you’ll need to calculate using moa’s. If you’re not careful you’ll miscalculate. The tech either didn’t know or was blowing smoke. They shouldn’t put stuff like that on the market. You want the turrets and the reticle both in the same system of measurements. Cuts down on the confusion. You might wanna check out the Athlon Argos
I am not surprised that most of the advise has to do with glass. I have an Athlon Agros BTR 6x24x50 on my Savage VLP 243 Win. I am not to impressed as my little Leupold EFR 3x9x33 on my Henry big boy steel CCH 44mag has much higher quality glass and they were about the same price. I have 79 year old eyes and want quality over big magnification. I seldom use 20 power and above on my Athlon because the image is poor. It is also very heavy and the illumination is a joke.
My Savage Axis .223 will hit at 500 with Winchester White Box ammo... not every time, but it'll hit. I have a 3-9 Burris scope on it. You're fine.
Leupold info states turret adjustment 0.1 Mrad There is 67 MOA of elevation and the same for windage. In looking at the elevation and windage turrets they are clearly marked in MILS.
Most scopes that go to up to 20-24x magnification range will work.
For longer distance precision; I have found this scope which is both capable and affordable at roughly $260 apiece.. My Granddaughter and I used a pair them on a pair of 223 rifles; a Savage 11VT Bolt rifle, and a Stag Model 6 Super Varminter, to shoot in MR600yd F T/R in national competition. No problems with three of them in years of use. Mine are all 1/8 MOA/1/8 MOA turrets with Target Dot Reticles. The third is on my F Open 260. I have managed to resolve 22 caliber bullet holes at 300yd with these scopes. Base, rings.
Data:
Delivery Information
Greg
For longer distance precision; I have found this scope which is both capable and affordable at roughly $260 apiece.. My Granddaughter and I used a pair them on a pair of 223 rifles; a Savage 11VT Bolt rifle, and a Stag Model 6 Super Varminter, to shoot in MR600yd F T/R in national competition. No problems with three of them in years of use. Mine are all 1/8 MOA/1/8 MOA turrets with Target Dot Reticles. The third is on my F Open 260. I have managed to resolve 22 caliber bullet holes at 300yd with these scopes. Base, rings.
Data:
| Finish | Matte Black |
| Waterproof | Yes |
| Weight | 26 Ounce |
| Tube Diameter | 30mm |
| Power Variability | Variable |
| Minimum Power | 8 |
| Maximum Power | 32 |
| Adjustment Click Value | 1/8 MOA |
| Adjustment Type | Click |
| Exposed Turrets | Yes |
| Finger Adjustable Turrets | Yes |
| Turrets Resettable to Zero | Yes |
| Zero Stop | No |
| Turret Height | High |
| Fast Focus Eye Piece | Yes |
| Lens Coating | Fully Multi-Coated |
| Warranty | Limited Lifetime Factory Warranty |
| Rings Included | No |
| Sun Shade Included | Yes |
| Lens Covers Included | No |
| Reticle | Target Dot |
| Reticle Construction | Wire |
| Illuminated Reticle | No |
| Holdover Reticle | No |
| Reticle Focal Plane Location | 2nd |
| Parallax Adjustment | 10 Yards-Infinity |
| Fog Proof | Yes |
| Shock Proof | Yes |
| Overall Length (A) | 16.25 Inches |
| Eyepiece Bell to Objective Bell Length (B) | 6.15 Inches |
| Objective Bell to Turret Length (C) | 2.7 Inches |
| Eyepiece Bell to Turret Length (D) | 2 Inches |
| Eyepiece Length (E) | 3.85 Inches |
| Objective Bell Length (F) | 6.25 Inches |
| Objective Diameter (G) | 2 Inches |
| Eyepiece Diameter (H) | 1.71 Inches |
| Objective Lens Diameter | 44 Millimeter |
| Eye Relief | 4 Inches |
| Exit Pupil Diameter | 5.5-1.37 Millimeter |
| Field of View @ 100 Yards Minimum Power | 9.3 Feet |
| Field of View @ 100 Yards Maximum Power | 2.5 Feet |
| Sun Shade Length | 3 Inches |
Delivery Information
| Shipping Weight |
| 2.405 Pounds |
Greg
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That’s common to measure total travel in moa and actually have mil turrets.
67 moa total travel = about 19.5 mils total travel.
So you could approximately have 9.75 mils elevation available with a 0 moa rail/mount
Enough for 1000 yards with many modern cartridges.
Wtf.
4 power at 800 yards?
LMAO
Get as much scope you can afford.
If money is tight look for sales.
Midway has bushnell ar scopes on sale, for an example.
Yes sir. All day long hits on steel.
That said that particular AR is not set up (optics wise) for extended ranges but it can do it if I do my part.
4x is definitely not optimal for those ranges but it's definitely doable.
I don't see any reason it would hinder you from shooting at those distances I have recently seen people shooting 600 yards with a 22lr and if they can hit it with that you depending on your skill should be able to with your gun how much you will be able to physically see may be the difference you can hear the ding pretty easily but spotting misses with our scope or seeing the impacts unless on steel and even then I think your going to have a hard time .
The op stated he was old (I can say it I'm 61).
When I was under 40 maybe steal at 600 with 4x could have been done, my eyes were exceptional back then.
He stated eyesight was not optimal.
I think 18x will get him to 600 ok on steal.
4x18 bushnell scopes on sale at midway 140 $ .
Cherish and protect your eyesight.
One day you get behind some glass and say wtf, thinking its went bad.
After about the third piece of glass you try you realize you need bigger glass.
I thought I was dying. Lol
When I was under 40 maybe steal at 600 with 4x could have been done, my eyes were exceptional back then.
He stated eyesight was not optimal.
I think 18x will get him to 600 ok on steal.
4x18 bushnell scopes on sale at midway 140 $ .
Cherish and protect your eyesight.
One day you get behind some glass and say wtf, thinking its went bad.
After about the third piece of glass you try you realize you need bigger glass.
I thought I was dying. Lol
BTDT with Cataract surgery. The VA does it almost as an assembly line. They do a good job, and the aftereffects are brief.
I had reached the point where I had to bring along a Grandkiddo to read the speed limit and street signs. Now 20/20 and all I need are drugstore readers.
Greg
I had reached the point where I had to bring along a Grandkiddo to read the speed limit and street signs. Now 20/20 and all I need are drugstore readers.
Greg
The one thing about deteriorating eyesight is it forces you to revisit and work on skills. Lol
Years ago Leopold was my go to scope. I have vortex and for budget builds bushnell . There are many that I have not tried.
With the exception of cqb stuff,
Externally adjustable turrets
Side adjustable focus / parallax
Enough power for expected range
Warranty
I can't argue glass quality unless I see them side by side.
You have to judge things within your budget .
I no longer want any fixed parallax scope of any brand, that could be caused by aging eyes.
Years ago Leopold was my go to scope. I have vortex and for budget builds bushnell . There are many that I have not tried.
With the exception of cqb stuff,
Externally adjustable turrets
Side adjustable focus / parallax
Enough power for expected range
Warranty
I can't argue glass quality unless I see them side by side.
You have to judge things within your budget .
I no longer want any fixed parallax scope of any brand, that could be caused by aging eyes.
Yeah. I qualified expert with the m16a2 and mil spec ammo at 500yards with open sights. However that was 40 years ago. I’d be lucky to see the target now lol. Scopes don’t make you shoot better, they let you see what you’re shootin at. I too was guilty of going for brands that have done good for me in the past. Leupolds aren’t what they once were and nowadays you can get more for less with brands like vortex and athlon. However if leupold works for him so be it. I’m happy to hear he’s getting back into shooting. It gives us older guys a great deal of enjoyment.
For optics, my list starts with Bushnell AR Optic BDC, Mueller 8-32 x44 Target Dot, several aging Varmint/Target Tascos, currently dismounted, and a Nikon on the Savage Scout. For up to two decades,. none of my scopes have ever impeded my ability to compete and hit the target properly.
Greg
Greg
Check out the TMR reticle on the Leopolds.
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