without warning - tuner muzzle brake (barrel tuner)

rydah

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The final design finally cleared customs so I can get started on the video series about it and tuners in general to answer everyone’s questions. It’ll release along with preorders shot show timeframe.

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The finish straight off the machines is really slick and smooth. Production models will be beadblasted and then nitrided.
 

badassgunworks

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This is my design of tuner brake. designed 5 years ago 6 patents it was the first horizontal tuner brake on the market. I only make elr sized brakes
 

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giumau1

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    what is the function of the two cuts at the edge of the brake? anti muzzle rise, leveling aid or what?
     

    Hollywood 6mm

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    Wish I'd seen this sooner.

    Recently picked up an ATS from Kinetic. Its one that goes behind a brake. I haven't shot it yet but in just messing with it theres 2 things I wish it had. Click adjust, and markings like a micrometer so I know exactly where its at. I plan on using it with multiple rifles and want repeatability.

    The ATS does have micrometer-style markings. It's even part of the instructions on using it.
     

    2aBaCa

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    The ATS does have micrometer-style markings. It's even part of the instructions on using it.
    LOL no, its only on the rotating sleeve that hangs over the barrel. What good is that? GuessI can take a sharpie and put my own line on my barrel. Imo, the markings are on the wrong end. As it unscrews it should reveal a zero mark and revolution lines.
     
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    rydah

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    it will be fun to see how long it will take the shipment from AUS to IT then...
    All my shipping from the states is only taking a week currently, it’s the 3-4 weeks they sit in customs that’s ruining my plans at the moment.

    I want to know as well. I am currently wanting a 4 port brake It holding off for this. If it’s obscene priced I’d like to know.

    $325.
     

    rydah

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    Quick recoil test this morning with the recoil sled/accelerometer and the 6.5 creedmoor bergara hmr pro had the tmb beat out the apa little bastard gen 3 pretty convincingly. So I’m happy with that, my goal with the brake from the start was to beat the little bastard gen 3 just because as far as I’m concerned it’s the best 4 port brake at the moment.

    Little bastard had a 41% reduction in recoil compared to no brake and the tmb had a 47% reduction in recoil. So a 6% difference and a 10% improvement in performance over the little bastard.

    The accelerometer confirmed the results of the sled.

    Ill have a proper video showing the sled in action and results coming soon.

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    b6graham

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    curious how it compares to the sidewinder, jet4/shockwave, heaven 4 port etc.

    the big class of 4 port brakes
     
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    rydah

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    curious how it compares to the sidewinder, jet4/shockwave, heaven 4 port etc.

    the big class of 4 port brakes
    From what I’ve seen the bastard and terminator brakes out perform those brakes consistently.

     

    McMillan

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    From what I’ve seen the bastard and terminator brakes out perform those brakes consistently.

    I think it may actually be caliber dependant and probably powder burn rate dependant. I ran a t3 terminater an area 419 sidewinder and an apa gen 3 fat barstard all at the same time and the t3 terminator was a joke compared to the area 419 sidewinder and the apa fat barstard was just a little but behind the sidewinder
     

    rydah

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    Filming for the first video is done.

    The end result today was .21 inch group down from .71 inch group.

    This was all from loading a 100 round box, all .02 off the lands, all with the same charge weight and letting the tuner do the work.

    Shot a total of 60 rounds and 20 groups. Settled on setting 18.

    Very happy with the results considering the mirage out there. Not bad for zero load development and a stock bergara hmr pro. Tuners work.

    Video will drop once I’m done editing it but the start and end results are really all that matter.

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    iceng

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    So your claim is muzzle brakes, or specifically your brake-tuner setup lowers ES and SD ?

    Was there any variation in loads, or powder, or something else which effects this result ?
     

    rydah

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    So your claim is muzzle brakes, or specifically your brake-tuner setup lowers ES and SD ?

    Was there any variation in loads, or powder, or something else which effects this result ?

    No variation in the load. All rounds were 0.02 off the lands and the same random charge weight, 43gr h4350/ar2209.
     
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    iceng

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    0.02" or 0.02mm ? Interesting effect. We make our own tuners here too and have never measured this effect. I've not been paying attention enough to think of it, so that's possibly why.

    Time for an experiment.
     

    addertooth

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    Interesting design. I would be tempted to mill a ball radius on the corner of the target-facing side of the brake slots (1/4inch radius). High velocity airflows like to become detached at any sharp bends, and become "less directed" turbulent flows. You can also make use of the venturi effect to draw in air to create a smoother and less impulsive response. It would require a shallow angle be drilled which is nearly parallel with the face of the backward slanting surfaces. It might have to be radiused at the exit hole to prevent if from becoming an ultrasonic whistle when fired.

    The downside I see to the suggestion might be the laminar flow back towards the shooter might be disturbing, but heck, the bullet will be long gone by then.
     

    rydah

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    0.02" or 0.02mm ? Interesting effect. We make our own tuners here too and have never measured this effect. I've not been paying attention enough to think of it, so that's possibly why.

    Time for an experiment.
    Inches Nik.

    Sounds like you got to get out and do some shooting.
     
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    iceng

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    Being a fellow Aussie, I had to ask. I often measure things in metric, mainly for.... It's metric.

    I read Mark Gordon's (short action custom) article about bullet jump a while back, and came across the same thing a few years ago, but didn't fully understand what was happening. Having someone else explain what I found helped a heap with development time.
    Look up the 6.5 CM throat, it's huge. Almost like they knew when they developed the specs for it.

    I also ran a big experiment with small vs large rifle primers and discovered a few cool things there.

    I think this matched with some tuner experimenting could be fun and have positive results if it hold true for me. The main one would be reduction of load development time, and increased long-range performance.
     
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    rydah

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    Being a fellow Aussie, I had to ask. I often measure things in metric, mainly for.... It's metric.

    I read Mark Gordon's (short action custom) article about bullet jump a while back, and came across the same thing a few years ago, but didn't fully understand what was happening. Having someone else explain what I found helped a heap with development time.
    Look up the 6.5 CM throat, it's huge. Almost like they knew when they developed the specs for it.

    I also ran a big experiment with small vs large rifle primers and discovered a few cool things there.

    I think this matched with some tuner experimenting could be fun and have positive results if it hold true for me. The main one would be reduction of load development time, and increased long-range performance.

    It's changed the way I look at reloading.
     
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    BestBraIs6BRA

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    Was there a trend with the SDs in neighbouring tuner settings or were things quite random?

    I wonder if the differences in SDs are just normal variation in a volatile load given small sample sizes (I’m assuming 3 shot groups).
     
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    rydah

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    Was there a trend with the SDs in neighbouring tuner settings or were things quite random?

    I wonder if the differences in SDs are just to normal variation in a volatile load given small sample sizes (I’m assuming 3 shot groups).
    I didn’t pay attention to that because im not sure if it would but I will try to catch it if that trend presents itself tomorrow when I do the next one which will be more in depth.

    The video is being uploaded for the first one at the moment.
     
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    iceng

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    Went out yesterday, and today and tried 3 different tests to gain data if a tuner effects (potentially improves) ES or SD.

    Nope. Not in the 2 rifles I tried and 2 different loads in each rifle. My opinion is it was "statistically insignificant". Group size, POI, etc, yes, velocity "tune" of extreme spread or standard deviation, no.

    One variable which needs to be verified is custom built rifles, which both of mine were. My next theory is around factory rifles with factory ammo. Perhaps this combination with a tuner will effect ES and or SD.

    still, as for group size, tuners work.
     
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    rydah

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    Went out yesterday, and today and tried 3 different tests to gain data if a tuner effects (potentially improves) ES or SD.

    Nope. Not in the 2 rifles I tried and 2 different loads in each rifle. My opinion is it was "statistically insignificant". Group size, POI, etc, yes, velocity "tune" of extreme spread or standard deviation, no.

    One variable which needs to be verified is custom built rifles, which both of mine were. My next theory is around factory rifles with factory ammo. Perhaps this combination with a tuner will effect ES and or SD.

    still, as for group size, tuners work.
    The test I did this morning didn't affect sd at all in any meaningful or beneficial way and any improvement that was seen was within the acceptable range of variables for 3 shot groups like the test in the video. But one setting twice, when I went back to it, like in the video, the sd blew up much higher than the average which was interesting. This certainly makes me think the tuner can affect variables other than group size but unfortunately, it's not meaningful or repeatable, the first video was just luck that it improved that much I think.
     

    badassgunworks

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    I dont think it was luck just random. Its un devloped loads thats why on a 10 or 20 shot string you throw out high and low as they dont reflect the overall standard deviation. It is possable when only shooting 3 shots some groups will have close velocity and some wont this is typical with un devloped brass and un devloped loads. The only way to obtain low sd's is to devlop them
     
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    rydah

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    The second video is up with some quick load development. OCW test and then dialing in the load with the tuner.

     

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    iceng

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    Interesting video. What distance are you shooting ? I'll guess 100m. Also, excellent work on doing a clean / rezero drill. Thanks for listing your cartridge data (primer, brass, etc).

    Did you do a workup to find max pressure ? Many customers I deal with often start low and work up in 0.5gr, one shot of each, to find when sticky bolt lift or bolt swipe occurs, so they know their ceiling.

    What's the break down in weight for your components (roughly) ? Looks like it has 3 main parts, minus the grub screws. Did I see in a previous post you said 4oz (125gram ??) Guessing that's just the brake or tuner, not the whole thing.
     

    rydah

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    Interesting video. What distance are you shooting ? I'll guess 100m. Also, excellent work on doing a clean / rezero drill. Thanks for listing your cartridge data (primer, brass, etc).

    Did you do a workup to find max pressure ? Many customers I deal with often start low and work up in 0.5gr, one shot of each, to find when sticky bolt lift or bolt swipe occurs, so they know their ceiling.

    What's the break down in weight for your components (roughly) ? Looks like it has 3 main parts, minus the grub screws. Did I see in a previous post you said 4oz (125gram ??) Guessing that's just the brake or tuner, not the whole thing.

    Yes shooting at 100m.

    I do but it’s a bit more lazy, I live on a farm and have my own range so I normally just load up one or two around what I think max will be and then stand at the back door and shoot them at a tree with the LabRadar until I see pressure and then I’ll load down from there and do a proper ocw test.

    With this test 43.6 was when I started noticing pressure signs.

    The tuner weighs 4oz dead on, the brake 5oz and the locking collar 2.5 oz roughly.

    Is there any other info people want me to list or tests I should do on the next video while I’m doing a full work up? Seating depth test, then ocw, then dial it in with the tuner.
     

    BestBraIs6BRA

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    How much was wind affecting the groups in the second vid? It seems like groups 0, 1, 2 have really good vertical but 1, 2 had some horizontal dispersion. That didn’t look like a light gust.

    Might make sense to do the last video on a less windy day - fully appreciate that this was probably the only time you had.

    One request for the last video - could you show how the adjustments are made on the TMB and how it locks together in a repeatable way? Thanks mate.
     
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    rydah

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    How much was wind affecting the groups in the second vid? It seems like groups 0, 1, 2 have really good vertical but 1, 2 had some horizontal dispersion. That didn’t look like a light gust.

    Might make sense to do the last video on a less windy day - fully appreciate that this was probably the only time you had.

    One request for the last video - could you show how the adjustments are made on the TMB and how it locks together in a repeatable way? Thanks mate.

    I can’t say wind didn’t affect the groups or the weather made me shoot any worse but I have a second cardboard that I verify results on if I feel I shot a poor group.

    One thing I’ve noticed is when you have the right setting groups become very round and clover leaf and it’s very easy to see when you pull shots.

    Yeah the weather has gone to shit, crazy winds have destroyed my pergola multiple times and one person trying to fix it is hard. The weather isn’t as terrible today so hopefully I can get it done in some steady conditions.

    Of course, the last video I will do is a seperate video on the tmb where I’ll show in more detail how the device is made up/works.
     

    Baron23

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    Quick recoil test this morning with the recoil sled/accelerometer and the 6.5 creedmoor bergara hmr pro had the tmb beat out the apa little bastard gen 3 pretty convincingly. So I’m happy with that, my goal with the brake from the start was to beat the little bastard gen 3 just because as far as I’m concerned it’s the best 4 port brake at the moment.

    Little bastard had a 41% reduction in recoil compared to no brake and the tmb had a 47% reduction in recoil. So a 6% difference and a 10% improvement in performance over the little bastard.

    The accelerometer confirmed the results of the sled.

    Ill have a proper video showing the sled in action and results coming soon.

    View attachment 7515139
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    May I ask what was your sample size for this recoil reduction test? How many data points for each were taken.

    Nice looking hardware...very nice
     

    rydah

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    @rydah
    Your website is up but not processing CC? Is that on my end or yours?
    PM sent.

    May I ask what was your sample size for this recoil reduction test? How many data points for each were taken.

    Nice looking hardware...very nice

    Recoil testing I’ve been doing 3 shot strings and take the average.
     
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    rydah

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    The official release video is being uploaded now and pre-orders are now also live on the website.


    Part 3 of the tuner series is also being uploaded now, check the second post or website for the video.
    The end result came out really good.

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    GrayRyder

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    To date all posts in this topic have missed the MOST critical failure of this brake - it's not tactical black.;) Though after I re-read I note that it will come nitrided.

    $325 - is that AUS dollars or US dollars?

    Looks kind of massive - what does it weigh?

    Seriously though, you really did a good job on developing this.
     
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    Kadams1563

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    To date all posts in this topic have missed the MOST critical failure of this brake - it's not tactical black.;) Though after I re-read I note that it will come nitrided.

    $325 - is that AUS dollars or US dollars?

    Looks kind of massive - what does it weigh?

    Seriously though, you really did a good job on developing this.
    He said $325 American in the video.

    that’s way to high IMO.
     

    rydah

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    He said $325 American in the video.

    that’s way to high IMO.
    Any tuner currently is going to set you back $200 minimum and any top end brake is going to cost you around $200. So you’re saving $75 and end up with a better product.
     

    rydah

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    @rydah
    What time of delivery do you expect currently?
    12 weeks for the first batch.

    To date all posts in this topic have missed the MOST critical failure of this brake - it's not tactical black.;) Though after I re-read I note that it will come nitrided.

    $325 - is that AUS dollars or US dollars?

    Looks kind of massive - what does it weigh?

    Seriously though, you really did a good job on developing this.

    They only come nitrided at the moment. Pricing is usd and here are the specs from the website:

    AISI 4140 Alloy Steel with corrosion-resistant and hardened black nitride finish.

    Fits contours up to and including proof research competition contour barrels (1.04 inches in diameter, 1 inch behind the shoulder) with a standard 5/8x28 UNEF 3A or SIG tapered and threaded muzzle and up to 0.75 inches of thread engagement,
    Works with all calibres up to and including 30 calibre magnums.
    Comes with Fix-it-sticks compatible wrench for installation and hex tool for 8-32 set screws.
    1-inch diameter muzzle brake, 1.58-inch diameter barrel tuner, 4.33 inches long, adds 2.77 inches to barrel length, weighs 11.5 ounces.

    It is large but a lot of it hangs over the barrel so it doesn’t add length to the barrel, no more than other top performing brakes like a fat bastard for example.

    side-section.jpg
     
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    Anzac

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    Or, as a weather beaten alternative, a Harrells Tuner Brake for $90?
    Acknowledge the differences; directional vs radial, set screws vs sliding sleeves.
    Which is more effective... don’t know as I don’t have a TMB, however by the looks of it clearly the TMB.
     
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