Precision Rifle Gear Would you do it again

[hesp]

There is a steady supply of expensive custom rifle's for sale.. Some are just after market stocks of modest to extreme cost added. While others are custom from the action & up costing several thousand. Most such rifle's just sit there on the used market & never sell. I like a nice rifle like most shooters. Like most of you I have a strict budget I need to live by without going into scary debt. Just was wondering how others look at this. I'm not attempting to infer a " Right or Wrong " just would like your input. Would you do it again , or are you thinking of moving forward on an expensive build ? Your thoughts would be interesting as how you see this?

 

[Steel head]

I have a cheap rifle and a more expensive rifle.
If I could I’d have no cheap rifles and more expensive rifles.
That said my cheap rifle has been with my for about a decade and has served me quite well.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

If you are contemplating whether to go budget or go expensive based on what the used market is doing I would vote that you probably should find another hobby, lol...

I buy or make myself a rifle based on what my end results are wanted from it, not what price it has to come in under.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[b6graham]

buy once cry once

but go finger bang a few dozen actions and stocks and scopes first

 

[Halfnutz]

buy once cry once

The unofficial SH mantra.

 

[hesp]

I understand. I have some nicer 100% original factory , but also some plainer models. I find myself using the plainer rifles each season. They have since 1964 ( my first big game rifle ) served me well & have harvested my deer & elk each season. Having grow up poor the meat is my first consideration. For sure I am financially better off now than years ago, but perhaps my poor childhood influences my out look now.

 

[6.5SH]

Slow/no sales on custom guns can happen for several reasons. Unless it was built by a known entity most won't take a risk on it, especially when the price asked is nearly the same as having one built. If you are buying something with the hopes of later selling it for close to what you paid you are better off getting a known quality item like an AI.

 

[ma smith]

buy once cry once

but go finger bang a few dozen actions and stocks and scopes first

The only thing I would add is don't ask it to do impossible, contraditctory things.

 

[Buzzinga]

Buy the nicest you can afford.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Wrong forum if "meat" is the first consideration on things as that is not really the membership base here.

Lots of us grew up poor; I did in a 3rd world country so I get that aspect of it in regards to "Do I pay that price vs that price" but I also know the limitations of budget items and do not care to deal with those issues when Uncle Murphy drops in unannounced.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[deersniper]

Just buy an AI

If you don’t like the stock get a AT and put the obsession chassis on it

 

[Surly]

Hell yeah. IF it IS your passion than what is the difference? Some people have sports cars, boats, etc...

What you spend your hard earned money on is only important to YOU. In the end, it's only money and enjoying life by doing what makes you happy is important as well. JMO

 

[b6graham]

i think we're talking very different rifles here if i'm reading this correctly

i have no intention to ever own a stock wood stock rifle in something like 270 or 30-06(unless its from Joel)

if im hunting it's gonna be a Zermatt or Lone Peak in a McMillan Adj Game Warden with carbon barrel and TBAC can etc etc etc

 

[Jcrios014]

Hmm, these are good questions. Idealy I wish I would've had the patiance and funds to acquire everything via the age old "buy once, cry once" methodology but that's not always possible which is why you start "low" and build "high". It'd be nice to have the funds and accebility to acquire the top end of everything in a short amount of time but for me at least it wasn't possible especially once I started competing in PRS matches. My first starter rifle was a left hand Savage model 10 in chambered in 308 with an IOR Valdada 3-18 FFP. However, that's not the rifle I used my first year competing. I went and purchased a Ruger RPR and a Burris XTR 4-20. I had that right for a little over a year and sold it since it was a RH setup.

My second year I didn't compete BC I wanted to "build up" the Savage. I sold the RPR, Burris optic, the IOR, and a few other items and saved enough to buy a MPA chasis for the Savage as well TT 5-25 (from the forum). I got plenty of comments about running a TT on a Savage this year but hey it worked. Late into the season I finally made my decision on which action to get and purchased a Terminus Zeus which took me up until last month to finally complete. It took a long time to get my gear to where it is now and I had to downsize alot of my firearm collection to get to this point but I can honestly say I'm happy bc for me it was a struggle and a test to get to where I'm at and therefore I hold a greater sense of appriciaiton for what I have.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

I understand. I have some nicer 100% original factory , but also some plainer models. I find myself using the plainer rifles each season. They have since 1964 ( my first big game rifle ) served me well & have harvested my deer & elk each season. Having grow up poor the meat is my first consideration. For sure I am financially better off now than years ago, but perhaps my poor childhood influences my out look now.

I started this silliness with a good-quality used DMR-variant AR-15 about four years ago, looking for something different after a lifetime of involvement in shotgun hunting and casual rifle/pistol shooting followed by fifteen years of serious skeet competition and then a bit of pistol (USPSA/IDPA variants) competition. In both skeet and rifle, I started with well-known factory firearms and upgraded to top-shelf stuff as I felt comfortable doing so. For me, the cost has definitely been worth it as the purchases were made after all necessary and foreseeable financial obligations had been met.

My parents grew up financially poor in large families, worked and saved carefully, built a modest but comfortable debt-free life for themselves, and put their kids through college (way cheaper 40+ years ago). From early age, we kids were taught that debt is bad. You want something, you save for it. Credit is a useful tool but potentially expensive or even damaging if misused. We were taught to consider the entire, ongoing cost of a purchase, including financing and maintenance over time.

So I hear you and agree with you about childhood influences. It sounds to me like you're doing the right thing - setting a budget, living by it, and building your net worth over time. My wife and I did the same. We are now in retirement. We can afford pretty much anything we want... but our lifestyle remains modest in relationship to our means. Money is a tool, not an end in itself.

Martin Luther said it best: "Money is the least of God's gifts. Sometimes He gives it to those to whom He gives nothing else."

Keep doing what you're doing. If you're meeting your goals/obligations and saving for your retirement and the extra $ is there for top-shelf gear, enjoy.

Good luck.

 

[SourMash]

""My second year I didn't compete BC I wanted to "build up" the Savage. I sold the RPR, Burris optic, the IOR, and a few other items and saved enough to buy a MPA chasis for the Savage as well TT 5-25 (from the forum). I got plenty of comments about running a TT on a Savage this year but hey it worked. Late into the season I finally made my decision on which action to get and purchased a Terminus Zeus which took me up until last month to finally complete. It took a long time to get my gear to where it is now and I had to downsize alot of my firearm collection to get to this point but I can honestly say I'm happy bc for me it was a struggle and a test to get to where I'm at and therefore I hold a greater sense of appriciaiton for what I have.""
[/QUOTE]
I completely agree with this statement above. I have started selling off cheaper rifles to be able to have nicer rifles. I'm 1/2 way to receiving (Feb.) my Vudoo (which will be my most expensive rifle yet) and I've already started sourcing parts for my centerfire gun. I'll just take a year or two to buy what I need and then I'll send it to a smith and let him put it together. The worst part about the price is the glass that you need to have. The buy once cry once motto is certainly true but damned if I feel like I've really been crying a lot lately.

 

[M4guru]

You can definitely take a bath selling customs, because if someone wants to spend $5K on a rifle they'll just have the one they want built. The only reason to buy a used custom rifle at nearly full price is ignorance or impatience. Otherwise it's got to be a good deal, that's about the only incentive to buy someone else's dream gun versus having your own built.

 

[Baron23]

@DownhillFromHere - may I ask where in the country you are located? I'm in Maryland and shot skeet tournaments for a long time, primarily in the Mid-Atlantic area. Perhaps we have met?
--------------
I too was a shotgunner for decades, particularly American skeet competitor (note, I didn't say I was competitive...only that I competed a lot! haha) and I still do quail hunting in GA and some waterfowling here in MD where I live.

I remember a dinner with some friends of mine a few decades or so who where skeet shooters. I asked what it would cost me for a shotgun to shoot competitively and they all piped up with "a Krieghoff K-80 starts at $10K"!!!

I was gobsmacked and my reaction is that they were insane for spending that kind of money on two pipes soldered together (more or less haha) and went and bought a Browning Citori for...I think, maybe $800 at the time.

The Browning lasted a year and then I upgraded to a Beretta 682 which lasted 3-4 years and now there is both a K-80 and a Kolar in my safe. Sadly, I'm now too old (well, with too old with a degenerating back) to shoot skeet except for a few rounds of recreational skeet with friends. So, I decided to get into rifles and my thinking/actions were somewhat similar.

First I bought a Rem 700 5R SS in .308. I still have that gun, we bedded the action, had Joe Ducos put in a Loggerhead comb kit, put on a muzzle brake, and put a Jewell trigger in it, and I'm still VERY happy with that gun for eastern whitetail and for the range. I seemed to have gotten a pretty good Rem barrel, which seems to be a bit of a gamble these days with Remington.

Now, I don't consider this a "cheap" gun per se (list is about $1,250 I think, but can be had for about a grand, right?) but it is compared to some of the stuff we see posted here.

I doubt in my remaining life that I will ever be able to do the fairly extreme mountain and long range western hunting some of you guys excel at. I suppose that if I was in shape to do this and paid for trip/guide/ticket/etc, that I may very well invest in a custom, fairly light weight, highly accurate hunting rifle. But, I, personally, just don't have the need for that.

Then, during COVID lock down, I got bit by the long range bug...not that I'm a long range shooter, just that being a competent marksman from 600-1000 yds is my goal. So, I now have a custom action with a Proof SS barrel in 6.5 CM in a J Allen chassis with a Leupold Mk5 5-25 x 56 scope. Sort of like my buying a K-80 after scoffing at people who would pay that for a shotgun.

Did I need this gun in order to pursue my goal?....well, I probably could have gotten away a lot cheaper. But the gun challenges me to shoot better and that was really my goal. I'm very happy with this rifle but remember, I'm 68 and retired so this has been a very engaging hobby for me so far, exercises both my brain and body, and my only regret was not recognizing the fun and challenge in precision rifle shooting earlier when I might have been in physical shape to enter competitions, etc....which I am not really any more.

The only person who can answer the OP's question is the OP. Its his budget balanced against other needs and I certainly can't comment on that. And, only he really knows what are his desired goals and challenges. I think that the rifle selection optimally derives from there (budget notwithstanding).

Just my random thoughts as the fucking socialist state of Maryland and the communist county of Montgomery have us pretty well locked down. So, please excuse my random blather.

 

[Memberberries]

I could afford my Remington 700 when I bought it and I have been able to learn a lot from it.

I want to build a rifle on custom action but I'll need to be held back by the rifle before I can justify spending the money on more hardware instead of ammo. I'd go the same route if I were to do it again.

Ive been told to "go be poor somewhere else" on here because buying custom rifles on your credit card to impress your internet friends is the thing to do but the reality is that a majority of shooters aren't held back by their action as much as they're limited by the barrel, optic, ammo, and themselves. I do also realize that at 30 years old, I'm younger than nearly everyone I meet who shoots a custom rifle by a decade or more and budget will expand as you age.

Out of the 8 5 shot groups I put on paper last Saturday with my remington 5r gen 2, all were sub moa. 3 were at 600 yds with a 10mph wind gusting to 20, 4 groups were at 200, all under 3/4 moa with the best one a hair under 1/4 moa, and the group at 100 was 1/2 moa. That's just an off the shelf remington in a krg bravo shooting nosler 155gr CC reloads.

 

[hesp]

I very much appreciate the honest feed back by every one. We all have different prospective's as to what is important, which is unique to each of us. I'm not a competition shooter. I do thank God for living where I do & the abundant hunting opertuities. . The main reason I own my rifles is for hunting & putting the best quality ( in my opinion ) & healthy meat on my table. I still have my Rem 700 I bought new in 1964 & it still will put three shots at or under an inch. I used it to take my best bull ever in 2014 on public land hunting by myself. . Over the years it has accounted for many deer , elk & a few antelope. For those who enjoy the custom route I have no problem with that. I believe in freedom to pick & choose as one see's fit. My question was because I have seen so many expensive custom rifle's up for sale on this forum & others. Was just wondering if those shooters would do it again knowing what they now know.

 

[Memberberries]

I think a lot of them would and others learned that the custom rifle didn't improve their shooting like they expected it to. Having built custom handguns and ar's I learned that I have a lot of fun building them but that I prefer to shoot my bolt guns so I've resorted to selling some to fund things like nicer optics. I'm sure that there are people on the opposite side of the coin who built custom bolt guns to learn that they still prefer to shoot steel with a pistol or they just love shooting sporting clays every Sunday.

Then there's the people who build and shoot then want to build a new one so they sell the 1st and build another.

 

[Evintos]

There is a steady supply of expensive custom rifle's for sale.. Some are just after market stocks of modest to extreme cost added. While others are custom from the action & up costing several thousand. Most such rifle's just sit there on the used market & never sell. I like a nice rifle like most shooters. Like most of you I have a strict budget I need to live by without going into scary debt. Just was wondering how others look at this. I'm not attempting to infer a " Right or Wrong " just would like your input. Would you do it again , or are you thinking of moving forward on an expensive build ? Your thoughts would be interesting as how you see this?

If I know what I know now, I would fast track the Goldilocks trial and error stuff (on certain things) and save a bunch of time and money.

So would I move forward on an expensive build? Not necessarily a more expensive build but more like different feature set. The thing about it is, there are plenty of factory rifles that are fantastic however, custom actions just give me the ability to try out a feature set that may unavailable in factory rifles. I didn't start off with a custom action. Went through Remington 700, then Tikka T3, Howa 1500, then Ruger RPR. They all worked fine.

Push feed versus control round feed for example. There's a limited amount of factory CRF rifles out there and don't have nearly as robust of an aftermarket support as a R700 compatible custom action. Winchester Model 70 is a fine rifle but if I already know that a lightweight barrel profile doesn't suit my uses and the FN SPR-A5 (which does suit my uses) is discontinued, do I buy the Model 70 and spend more money to change out barrel, buy new stock, etc? Many times factory rifles don't have the available aftermarket modifications which I may have developed a preference for so a custom action with CRF is the better way to go in the long run.

Sometimes you find a custom action and think, oh hey this is nice, 60* bolt throw vs 90* bolt throw, then once you shoot it, find out bolt throw doesn't matter much to you because the rifles are largely set up the same way with bolt throw being the only difference. So do you keep the rifle or sell it to try something else?

I suspect I'll eventually hit a point where I don't really want to bother with trying to find tailored fit and buy an AI or something.

 

[C.R. Adams]

This is an example of what i consider a solid first rifle (budget build) to consist of. I think it will be competitive for quite a while and if a person decides to get out of the game, they should be able to get quite a bit of the investment back.
action: Defiance Tenacity or Bighorn Origin
barrel: might as well go with a bartlien or equivilent - labor is the same whether top end or less expensive barrel- m24/40 or mtu profile
barrel brake: 419 hellfire
trigger: trigger tech Special.
Optics: Bushnell XRS II 4.5-30 (can be found for 1100 right now) or a scope in the $1500 range. the extra $500 makes a difference over a $1k scope
Stock: MPA chassis of your flavor and get a weight kit to balance it to your preference.
Cartridge: i'm going to suggest the 6.5 creedmoor for several reasons....... one. in case you don't already load. two. barrel life of 2500 +/- three. you will have a larger market to sell to in case you decide you want to get out of it.
gunsmith: call up a few that you see mentioned. spend some time talking to them. get a feel for their personality. All good smiths are going to have a wait time. And let me tell you this, it's a lot easier waiting with someone that you have a good relationship and trust compared to waiting with one, who you're iffy about and wonder if you're just getting pushed to the bottom of the stack. Also, listen to what your smith suggests. if he tells you the quality of any of the above isn't what he'd expect it to be, then you might trust him over what some yahoo like me suggests over the web.

 

[Surly]

I very much appreciate the honest feed back by every one. We all have different prospective's as to what is important, which is unique to each of us. I'm not a competition shooter. I do thank God for living where I do & the abundant hunting opertuities. . The main reason I own my rifles is for hunting & putting the best quality ( in my opinion ) & healthy meat on my table. I still have my Rem 700 I bought new in 1964 & it still will put three shots at or under an inch. I used it to take my best bull ever in 2014 on public land hunting by myself. . Over the years it has accounted for many deer , elk & a few antelope. For those who enjoy the custom route I have no problem with that. I believe in freedom to pick & choose as one see's fit. My question was because I have seen so many expensive custom rifle's up for sale on this forum & others. Was just wondering if those shooters would do it again knowing what they now know.

I too started off with a standard Remington 700 then moved to a custom GA built rifle....now I shoot an AI. IF I knew then what I know now I just would've bought the AI right away. BUT, that is part of the journey and progression. JMO

 

[b6graham]

I too started off with a standard Remington 700 then moved to a custom GA built rifle....now I shoot an AI. IF I knew then what I know now I just would've bought the AI right away. BUT, that is part of the journey and progression. JMO

i went the other way. started with an AI

then tikka, and ARC, then Zermatt

not saying i wouldn't buy an AXSR but for what I do kit just doesn't fit

 

[elwarpo]

I think the slow sales is partly because people often think their stuff is worth more. I do not understand buying a used firearm that may or may not have been properly taken care of unless there is a significant savings. This goes from custom rifles to stock pistols. What I see is a lot of people selling rifle/scope/accessory package and unless someone wants that exact package it just sits there.

 

[Secant]

Yup, I have done it & would do it again. I like having a rifle with a stock that fits me, that weighs what I want, with the trigger I like set to the weight I want, with the barrel length & twist I want, etc.

But, when I've had guns built it wasn't a choice between a custom gun & scary debt or a budget gun & no debt. I had the money allocated for the builds.

 

[hafejd30]

I started with a savage (because that’s what I could afford)

Moved to nicer factory guns, then custom and semi custom, then to AIAT

If I could do it all over again I’d have just bought the AI to begin with. At that time I didn’t know what I was looking at and didn’t want to spend a ton of money while getting my feet wet with LR shooting and reloading.

If I had $5k right now and wanted another rifle. I’d buy another AI. When the day comes I decide to upgrade my 300 WM it will be to an AI

If I was starting over or knew I could get what I have into my current rifles back out of them I’d trade them out in a heartbeat for an AXMC/TT with barrels in 300 and 260

But everyone has their preferences

 

[b6graham]

I think the slow sales is partly because people often think their stuff is worth more. I do not understand buying a used firearm that may or may not have been properly taken care of unless there is a significant savings. This goes from custom rifles to stock pistols. What I see is a lot of people selling rifle/scope/accessory package and unless someone wants that exact package it just sits there.

more often than not, selling seperate is gonna be what sells stuff. more work but likely gonna sell everything faster. especially not that we have gotten away from bedding and barrels stuck to one specific action

 

[sirhrmechanic]

For some of us, the journey is the reward. And building things give as much satisfaction as hitting targets.

So no regrets about any of my project, especially the wild ones like the .14 Eichelberger.

My new structured barrel project is going to be another amazing adventure at the bleeding edge.

Building is as much a part of this calling as anything!

Sirhr

 

[Memberberries]

I too started off with a standard Remington 700 then moved to a custom GA built rifle....now I shoot an AI. IF I knew then what I know now I just would've bought the AI right away. BUT, that is part of the journey and progression. JMO

What makes you like the AI over the GAP?

 

[ma smith]

Its important to distinguish custom from configurable. AI is in configurable. Before high grade rifles that were configurable off the shelf, customs what the only way to get configurable.

 

[TTLCAV]

I started with a 700 Remington SPS rifle since i am left handed and added a trigger, a muzzle brake, a better bolt knob, a magazine and finally a upgrades stock on a one by one basis. Then I purchased a couple other cheap rifles but preferred my original Remington which i sitll own. I decided to purchased a Accuracy International Rifle AT and liked it so much I purchased a AX Rifle.. I would most likely do it again because having the cheaper more economical rifle led me down the path to understand the differences in rifle set up and helped me find what I prefer. I appreciate to see and read about all rifles that others have chosen, built and manufactured. However I have no interest in replacing my AT or AX since I have found my "Holy Grail" of Rifles that work for me.

 

[weeds]

I'm going to throw out the dreaded - it depends.

My first centerfire rifles were Savage and they worked. They stayed stock for a long time until I got better and wanted to reach out farther. My 223 has had the trigger, stock, and barrel replaced and I still use it and maintain it the way that it is. When I got into PRS I bought another Savage from Cabela's on a Black Friday sale and immediately replaced everything to get it spun up for this game. That rifle was built with quality components that I could get either used or on sale, and it also is maintained the way it is and just works.

I got burned on my first custom action. Somewhere in the neighborhood of $6k to put that together and it had quirks that I just couldn't get over. It now sits as a barreled action that has been stripped down. I was lucky to pick up a used Vudoo and all the parts that were on my custom build got swapped over. The Vudoo gets shot at least every other weekend and at every match I can make time to attend.

One thing I learned since building my custom centerfire is that I liked going to matches with my friends, not the matches themselves. I would show up with my expensive rifle, place in the bottom third (which was not unexpected), and still have fun when they were there. When they weren't - I just felt like I was lighting a dollar on fire every time I pulled the trigger. I got into the 22 game and it was a totally different environment.

If I could do it all again, I'd build one rifle on a budget to be able to play the game, bounce around to find what I really enjoyed, then research and build for that.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

@DownhillFromHere - may I ask where in the country you are located? I'm in Maryland and shot skeet tournaments for a long time, primarily in the Mid-Atlantic area. Perhaps we have met?

I think we had an exchange here on SH some time ago. As I recall, you're in MD and did some big shoots there and in Virginia. I'm in central NC and competed at DCWC, Old Hickory, Salisbury, Savannah, and a few others. I don't think we've met but we both have stories about the "Liberty mafia." And the thing about skeet guns is you spend all the $ up front and then that's that. Last I heard, a new Kolar or K80 with tubes is in the $13k range. I bought one of the first Kolars in the wild in 1997 for well over $9k... and it's still in the safe and is as close to being an extension of my body (as a shotgun is supposed to be) as is possible. I shot 10-12k shells a year out of that thing for years on end. After 20 years or so, I had an authorized smith go through it... he put in hammer springs; it needed nothing else.

My question was because I have seen so many expensive custom rifle's up for sale on this forum & others. Was just wondering if those shooters would do it again knowing what they now know.

Also keep in mind that some affluent people enjoy the buy / play / sell cycle of expensive toys (cars!, boats, rifles...) and do so with what appears to be recklessness or not-so-smart to the rest of us - because, for them, the difference between a good sale price and full retail is meaningless.

But the fact that people DO buy expensive toys and then sell them early does provide opportunities for good deals. Nearly 20 years ago, I bought my first of two BMW sedans. Both were CPO (Certified Pre-Owned) with very low mileage; I had nearly 100k miles on the first when I traded for the second, and put nearly 100k on it too. Sales and service people I met along the way told me that many people buy or lease a new BMW every two or three years, and I learned it's pretty easy to buy an amazing car at a huge discount.

So maybe you're reading too much into the appearance of expensive rifles or components in the PX. And as far as whether this or that action or chassis or whatever will make a mediocre shooter better - Nope. The best performers in any discipline would likely win regardless of what brand they choose. I'm too old and slow to be competitive even in local PRS-style matches, but I appreciate the feel and performance of good gear.

One thing I learned since building my custom centerfire is that I liked going to matches with my friends, not the matches themselves. I would show up with my expensive rifle, place in the bottom third (which was not unexpected), and still have fun when they were there. When they weren't - I just felt like I was lighting a dollar on fire every time I pulled the trigger. I got into the 22 game and it was a totally different environment.

"Fun" is - or should be - the goal for most of us. I feel sorry for people who feel they must win or be capable of winning before they can have fun. Again, I'm too slow to be competitive, but I feel a real sense of accomplishment when I simply finish a one-day PRS match without having a heart attack or just falling out from het or exhaustion (and I've seen guys a lot younger than me fall out in NC summer heat). I'll shoot matches as long as I'm able... as long as it's fun.

 

[Mortalpawn]

I would say if you are just getting into precision shooting, the rifle is less important than the optics and training. I've taken friends with very little long range experience out with a $1000 Ruger Precision rifle with good optics on it and a highly trained spotter, and they can make 1000 yard shots easily. Done properly, the spotter is doing about 95% of the work.

Also good optics hold their value better than the gun if you decide long range is not for you. Similarly I've gone out to range days with people who have top of the line rifles but no spotter and no training and they are just randomly lobbing bullets at the target. Honestly its hard to learn to read the wind and make good calls without a lot of time behind a spotting scope with a reticle watching shots go into the target working as a spotter/shooter pair. After doing this for a while you can then move to reading the wind from you rifle scope yourself.

So I would allocate dollars to (1) Optics including a spotting scope with reticle (2) Training and then (3) Rifle. You can start with a cheap 6.5 creedmoor rifle, reasonably good scope and take a few one day courses. If you like it, then invest in a Leupold Mark IV spotting scope with the TMR reticle and a good solid tripod. Possibly add a LRF (or just a mildot master and range targets by milling) and get some more training. Only after you find you enjoy it would I then go out and buy the expensive rifle.

That being said, I took a 7 day Precision RIfle course at Gunsite where you spend 1/2 the time spotting and 1/2 the time shooting and really enjoyed it. So when I came back I did invest in a top of the line rifle (no regrets), but that was after I decided that I really enjoyed long range shooting.

 

[rockn30809]

If I could do it over today, I never would have dicked around with 700's and went straight for aftermarket actions. When I got into bolt rifles there were only a few manufacturers of custom actions. Today the market is flooded with great choices in actions.

 

[hesp]

It appears to me that as in many things in life ,beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. There are those who are very happy with their Ruger American , or Savage Axis. Another likes a little up grade, while others want every upgrade available. None of these choices are wrong for the individual as long as they are happy with their choice. Isn't it wonderful we all have the freedom to pick & choose the delight of our heart. Thanks all & God Bless America.

 

[DocRDS]

Buy the best I value I can afford.

I have very much a price / performance kinda person. I'd rather have a "Good" option at a "reasonable" price than the "best option" at "max price"
In other words, there is diminishing returns as cost goes up. Every market is different and you gotta sort through a lot of BS for rifles/scopes/etc...

Of course "value" is eye of the beholder. I COULD drive a BMW. I choose to drive a econo-car. I don't spend a lot of time in it. Cars are money losers.

Houses tend to go UP so I buy MAX house.

Rifles are more like the car--Try and find that toyota. I ain't a NASCAR driver, but I can start dropping good stuff into it. Eventually shoot the barrel off and replace everything. Now I spend more time with my rifle than my car, so maybe I want a "BMW" rifle. That's the trade off.

Scopes are like Houses. They may not go up in price, but stay pretty fixed in value.

 

[lariat]

I started this silliness with a good-quality used DMR-variant AR-15 about four years ago, looking for something different after a lifetime of involvement in shotgun hunting and casual rifle/pistol shooting followed by fifteen years of serious skeet competition and then a bit of pistol (USPSA/IDPA variants) competition. In both skeet and rifle, I started with well-known factory firearms and upgraded to top-shelf stuff as I felt comfortable doing so. For me, the cost has definitely been worth it as the purchases were made after all necessary and foreseeable financial obligations had been met.

My parents grew up financially poor in large families, worked and saved carefully, built a modest but comfortable debt-free life for themselves, and put their kids through college (way cheaper 40+ years ago). From early age, we kids were taught that debt is bad. You want something, you save for it. Credit is a useful tool but potentially expensive or even damaging if misused. We were taught to consider the entire, ongoing cost of a purchase, including financing and maintenance over time.

So I hear you and agree with you about childhood influences. It sounds to me like you're doing the right thing - setting a budget, living by it, and building your net worth over time. My wife and I did the same. We are now in retirement. We can afford pretty much anything we want... but our lifestyle remains modest in relationship to our means. Money is a tool, not an end in itself.

Martin Luther said it best: "Money is the least of God's gifts. Sometimes He gives it to those to whom He gives nothing else."

Keep doing what you're doing. If you're meeting your goals/obligations and saving for your retirement and the extra $ is there for top-shelf gear, enjoy.

Good luck.

There is major wisdom here that many in this world need to bathe in. That quote from Luther is gold, and quite frankly haunting if deeply considered.

That being said, I would absolutely go the custom route again. But I also paid cash for everything and slept damn good at night. I figure I have received my money back in dead predators that aren’t killing calves and satisfaction several times over.

 

[lariat]

I very much appreciate the honest feed back by every one. We all have different prospective's as to what is important, which is unique to each of us. I'm not a competition shooter. I do thank God for living where I do & the abundant hunting opertuities. . The main reason I own my rifles is for hunting & putting the best quality ( in my opinion ) & healthy meat on my table. I still have my Rem 700 I bought new in 1964 & it still will put three shots at or under an inch. I used it to take my best bull ever in 2014 on public land hunting by myself. . Over the years it has accounted for many deer , elk & a few antelope. For those who enjoy the custom route I have no problem with that. I believe in freedom to pick & choose as one see's fit. My question was because I have seen so many expensive custom rifle's up for sale on this forum & others. Was just wondering if those shooters would do it again knowing what they now know.

So this goes to the real issue: when you pick up the rifle do you trust that it will do the job you are about to do? That’s the test of any of them. Granted there may be an untrained fool behind the trigger, but take that out of the equation for the moment: is the setup good enough for what you want to do?

There is something to be said about having history with a firearm. That may not be a popular sentiment but when I have a shot that is a must around my place I know what I will be picking up. Just my opinion. That Remington sounds like it’s that one for you.

 

[Alpine 338]

I have done the custom rifle several times. I have a couple Gunsmiths that build to my exact specifications. For me, there are many aspects of a custom rifle that are important to me; quality, dependability, accuracy, and ergonomics just to name a few. If I couldn't afford a custom rifle, then I would still be happy with my Remington 700 or Sako TRG.

Edit - Forgot to mention, one of the things that drove me towards custom rifles was the desire to shoot unique calibers/cartridges that are not always available with off the shelf factory rifles like a 6.5x47L

 

[Baron23]

@DownhillFromHere -dang, after I made that post I remembered that I had such a convo with somebody....but wasn't sure if it was you! LOL

Yes, we corresponded about the Kirkman family, Wauford, and I think we both knew Rocky (it was Rocky, right???). I only met him a few times when he was with the rest of the NC gang.

The one thing I did go with my Kolar....which is also a pretty early model....is I sent the trigger back to them for a partial upgrade to Gen 2...or Stage 2...or whatever they called the improved model. As I understand it, at least one of the parts is now made of a harder metal. To me, the difference is in the consistency and crispness of the trigger....both improved.

Other than that....its built like a T-72 tank.

A pic or two...wood came out of Rag's office cabinet....if they knew how good the wood was before seeing it when cut, I think they would have charged me a lot more! haha

The engraving was by a guy that was, at that time, their in-house engraver and again....WAY mo' money now than when I bought it. He did beautiful work.

Nice to remake our acquaintance!

Ok, thread hijack over. ooops

 

[6.5SH]

Wow on that wood!

 

[Vivacious Stallion]

No time like the present to buy up someone's overpriced sloppy seconds. Plenty of deals to be had though. I think lots of people overestimate their access to longer ranges. Then they go straight to the used racks of stores and online.

 

[Memberberries]

I think lots of people overestimate their access to longer ranges. Then they go straight to the used racks of stores and online.

This is probably more true than people want to admit. 643 yds is the farthest I can get at the range I go to unless they're closed down for the 3 or 4 time a year 1000 yd f class match. I can only shoot about 400 yds at home, to shoot farther I could find some private land or drive a minimum of a couple hours each way. There is a private range close that that goes out to 1400 yds and I think it's $50 per person for a 4 hr session max 4 people.

When I drive 2 or 3 hours i get a lot more options, and then once I cross into to Texas it seems like there's a place to shoot a mile every other mile.

Means every time I want to shoot 650 yards or more it costs me $50 or more to get in the door and probably more than that in gas to get there. That's before I count the money spent on ammo. If I tally it all up a long range shoot costs me $200 or more every time.

 

[Jigstick]

I would rather have one custom rifle that fits me perfectly, hammers, is smooth and reliable, build exactly how I want it, and dependable vs having 3 off the rack rifles.

 

[Surly]

What makes you like the AI over the GAP?

Multi caliber, action bolt throw, chassis adjustability and reliability with feeding. Nothing bad to say about the GAP just wanted to move to a chassis.

 

[Vivacious Stallion]

This is probably more true than people want to admit. 643 yds is the farthest I can get at the range I go to unless they're closed down for the 3 or 4 time a year 1000 yd f class match. I can only shoot about 400 yds at home, to shoot farther I could find some private land or drive a minimum of a couple hours each way. There is a private range close that that goes out to 1400 yds and I think it's $50 per person for a 4 hr session max 4 people.

When I drive 2 or 3 hours i get a lot more options, and then once I cross into to Texas it seems like there's a place to shoot a mile every other mile.

Means every time I want to shoot 650 yards or more it costs me $50 or more to get in the door and probably more than that in gas to get there. That's before I count the money spent on ammo. If I tally it all up a long range shoot costs me $200 or more every time.

Shooting these guns at 100 to 200 yards gets old real fast, honestly. Sadly many people aren't so lucky as to have access to longer ranges. And yikes 200 per outing is pretty steep.

 

[Memberberries]

Shooting these guns at 100 to 200 yards gets old real fast, honestly. Sadly many people aren't so lucky as to have access to longer ranges. And yikes 200 per outing is pretty steep.

well if you figure $50 to get in the range, $20 for gas, and 50 to 100 rounds at $1.50 a piece for box ammo, less for reloads but then I have a tendency to shoot more. That's why I ussually shoot 600 yds or less and save the $50.