your preferred emphasis on an 18” DMR rifle?

[BoulderE89]

I have a home built 18” 223 wylde rifle. I am looking to put a scope on it. I am mainly a bolt gun guy so I am not looking to drop serious money on something I won’t frequently use. I am torn between 2 scopes and therefore, 2 approaches to a DMR. Both scopes are nearly identical in price to that’s a wash

1. Athlon helos 2-12 scope. It has a good reticle, but it is more geared towards the longer range side of using this weapon. Wouldn’t be the most handy in quick shooting or would be overkill in an indoor range. 12x on a dmr is nice to have.

2. Primary arms 1-8 FFP with a griffin mil reticle. This is more geared towards close up shooting with a 1x power, but has the mil system in the reticle if I do take shots out to distance. Definitely not ideal but useable at that mag range out to 600 ish

What would you choose? What is your preferred emphasis with a DMR rifle?

 

[houndog]

Personally, if I'm shooting offhand, at relatively short distances and at 1x, my preference would be for a light, short rifle. No more 14.5'"with a pinned muzzle brake to get it to 16" and ideally somewhere between 10.5 and 12.5 For me at least, an AR with an 18" barrel is not ideal for any kind of CQB scenario where I'm really going to want 1x Instead, I'm probably going to be shooting this kind of rifle at longer distances (1-600 yards) and at least partially supported - i.e. prone, sitting, or with a bipod. And if that's how I'm using the rifle I really don't need 1x and would appreciate 12x. Of course, maybe that's just me and I suppose with practice you can make a 24" barrel AR work ... but again I don't think it's ideal.

On the other hand, if you really want this to be a do it all rifle and think you will be doing some shooting at say 75 yards and in, 1x would definitely be better. And 8x will get you out to 600 yards, at least if you're shooting moderately sized steel plates. So that's the choice that will give you the most versatility.

 

[towerofpower93]

Get the Athlon 2-12 then stick an RMR or similar micro RDS on top of a ring or at a 45deg for the close in stuff.

This is what I did with my 18" DD running a PST Gen 2 3-15x optic and RM06 on a 45deg offset.

Best of both worlds...aside from the heavier scope being heavier.

 

[Steel head]

My 18” rifles purpose is to cover 0-600 yard man sized targets.
I run a 1x4 pretty happily but I do plan on upgrading it to a 1-8 possibly as it would be better for identifying things at distance.

 

[Shoots 700's]

I run my 18" DMR with a 3.5x10 mark 4 easy hits on target out to 800. I don't shoot indoors so I am sure it would be overkill inside at short distances

 

[aslrookie]

Sounds like the 1-8 would fit your requirements more closely than the 2-10.

 

[TacticalPlinker]

I have a home built 18” 223 wylde rifle. I am looking to put a scope on it. I am mainly a bolt gun guy so I am not looking to drop serious money on something I won’t frequently use. I am torn between 2 scopes and therefore, 2 approaches to a DMR. Both scopes are nearly identical in price to that’s a wash

1. Athlon helos 2-12 scope. It has a good reticle, but it is more geared towards the longer range side of using this weapon. Wouldn’t be the most handy in quick shooting or would be overkill in an indoor range. 12x on a dmr is nice to have.

2. Primary arms 1-8 FFP with a griffin mil reticle. This is more geared towards close up shooting with a 1x power, but has the mil system in the reticle if I do take shots out to distance. Definitely not ideal but useable at that mag range out to 600 ish

What would you choose? What is your preferred emphasis with a DMR rifle?

In 5.56/.223 -- 1-10 , 1-8 with a minidot. I run an RMR / Razor Gen3 on my Criterion 18" build

 

[hlee]

1x vs 2x for close up shooting is splitting hairs. Both should be able to be employed effectively at close range. If the threat is a blurry blob, shoot the blurry blob. But, it won’t be. Learn to shoot with both eyes open, if you do not already.

 

[roostercogburn98]

I have a HDMR ii 3.5-21 on my 18 inch gun. Maybe overkill, but it was on sale, so it got a home. One day it may get retrofitted to a mk3/4 for looks, or a nice NF 1-xx.

 

[The King]

The Vortex 1-10x is a worthwhile do-it-all scope for an 18" AR.

Also depends on your altitude and weather patterns - where I'm at an 18" AR is a 1km gun as long as you are comfortable with .380 ACP level hits at that distance.

General rule for larger animal work (like people) is 1x for every 100yds. An 8x scope for sure works at 800yds. Think of it this way - could you hit a person at 100yds with iron sights? Yes. Emphatically so.

 

[Sixfivesavage]

18" doesn't normally have the bipod on it though.

 

[BoulderE89]

The Vortex 1-10x is a worthwhile do-it-all scope for an 18" AR.

Also depends on your altitude and weather patterns - where I'm at an 18" AR is a 1km gun as long as you are comfortable with .380 ACP level hits at that distance.

General rule for larger animal work (like people) is 1x for every 100yds. An 8x scope for sure works at 800yds. Think of it this way - could you hit a person at 100yds with iron sights? Yes. Emphatically so.

Yeah with my load I’ve worked up with a 77gr SMK I am supersonic out to 850 and have what I consider an effective range of around 600. The more I think about it the more I think I view this rifle and an intermediate distance rifle. If I’m shooting primarily long I have bolt guns and an AR10 6.5 for the job. So this really is an intermediate gun which will be more capable up close than the others.

I would love a 1-10 but it would eat me up having that nice of glass on a rifle and not shooting it. I’m definitely more of a bolt gun kinda guy

 

[LRRPF52]

Being able to shoot with high hit probability from field positions is my primary emphasis for DMRs.

I like them light, accurate, with usable optics that have forgiving eye relief and practical reticles.

It’s fun to shoot a light-recoiling, heavier AR-15 suppressed from bipod supported, but once you get them into kneeling, squatting, and other positions, things change.

Biggest components towards that are:

Barrel and barrel profile
Optic and mount
Trigger
Handguard

This is all under the assumption of a sound BCG, receiver set, gas system, FCG, recoil system, which isn’t as easy as people think.

Baseline requirement for the optic is that it has to work on a gas gun. AR-15s aren’t as bad on them as AR-10s, but a lot of the cheap scopes don’t hold up over time, so I have a pretty narrow pool that I trust there.

You’ll find out pretty quickly how important it is to you for the overall system to actually work, vs cool factor in what you thought you might want.

I don’t really have a choice because I’ve been doing DM Courses of some sort since 1996, when we started the impetus for a formal DM program in my Battalion in Korea on the DMZ.

Since I conduct DM Courses frequently, I get to see what actually works and what doesn’t, so it would be self-inflicting to buy optics that I’ve already seen fail.

I like the Vortex 1-10x Razor Gen 3 so far.

I see you mentioned an indoor range. Saint George has vast areas to shoot outdoors in, but an indoor range could be used for zeroing I guess.

 

[Molon]

You’re the one that is going to have to decide what your primary purpose is for a designated marksman type rifle (technically a 5.56mm DMR has a 20” barrel and a 5.56mm SPR has an 18” barrel). I have Aimpoints and LPVOs in 1-4X and 1-6X on AR-15s with barrels that are shorter than 18”, so for me personally, I want a scope that has a higher magnification than those options on a DMR type rifle, but not as high of a magnification that I would be using on something that is strictly a “target rifle” or “long range” rifle.

Since my AR-15s with shorter barrels than 18” have optics set-up for 1X magnification, having 1X magnification on my DMR type rifle is not the priority for me. For the higher end of magnification on a DMR type rifle 10X magnification has worked well for my personal criteria. Scopes with 10X magnification on the high end (and not 1X on the low end), tend to have 2.5X – 3X magnification on the low end. I also definitely want adjustable parallax for this type of application. With those aspects in mind one of my current favorites for use with a DMR type rifle is the Nightforce NXS 2.5 - 10 X 42 Compact.

This scope is available with MOA or mil turrets, with MOA or mil reticles and it has a ZERO-STOP elevation turret. It has side-adjustment parallax that is adjustable from 25 yards to infinity. It comes with a factory magnification-ring throw-lever that is removable.

The scope has user switchable red and green illumination. Naturally, this scope has the excellent glass, durability and precisely repeatable turret adjustments on which Nightforce has built its reputation.

This scope has all of the above features along with the benefits of a 42mm objective, all while having a smaller footprint than traditional 10X scopes, such as the Leupold shown below on my 18” Noveske SPR barreled AR-15.

…

 

[BoulderE89]

Being able to shoot with high hit probability from field positions is my primary emphasis for DMRs.

I like them light, accurate, with usable optics that have forgiving eye relief and practical reticles.

It’s fun to shoot a light-recoiling, heavier AR-15 suppressed from bipod supported, but once you get them into kneeling, squatting, and other positions, things change.

Biggest components towards that are:

Barrel and barrel profile
Optic and mount
Trigger
Handguard

This is all under the assumption of a sound BCG, receiver set, gas system, FCG, recoil system, which isn’t as easy as people think.

Baseline requirement for the optic is that it has to work on a gas gun. AR-15s aren’t as bad on them as AR-10s, but a lot of the cheap scopes don’t hold up over time, so I have a pretty narrow pool that I trust there.

You’ll find out pretty quickly how important it is to you for the overall system to actually work, vs cool factor in what you thought you might want.

I don’t really have a choice because I’ve been doing DM Courses of some sort since 1996, when we started the impetus for a formal DM program in my Battalion in Korea on the DMZ.

Since I conduct DM Courses frequently, I get to see what actually works and what doesn’t, so it would be self-inflicting to buy optics that I’ve already seen fail.

I like the Vortex 1-10x Razor Gen 3 so far.

I see you mentioned an indoor range. Saint George has vast areas to shoot outdoors in, but an indoor range could be used for zeroing I guess.

DM course would be a good and practical course to take I imagine.

I shoot outdoors 95% of the time and much prefer it. I only go to the indoor range when invited by buddies who shoot less frequently and when I do, I tend to bring this along and not my other calibers which are easily $2+ per round.

 

[tuckybill]

Simple. If your engaged in close combat run outside and run 300yds away. Now engage the enemy in long range combat.

 

[BoulderE89]

Simple. If your engaged in close combat run outside and run 300yds away. Now engage the enemy in long range combat.

This is the way

 

[padom]

I've been running a Leupold Mark 4 MR/T 1.5-5x20 CM-R2 for years on my recce... 1x with illuminated horshoe at cqb distances are fast and accurate....I have zero issues hitting steel out to 800yd at 5x using the floating dot in center of horseshoe...

I had a Razor Gen2 1-6 and I sold it and went back to this Mark4... The Razor 1-6 is a quality optic With crystal clear glass and built like a tank but damn it's so much heavier on a Recce rifle... if shooting tiny groups from the bench at the range is your goal none of these optics are
for you....

If cqb distance shooting with effective hits on man sized targets at distance is your goal...then 1-6, 1-8 is all you need...

I did receive Athlon new 1-10 ETR to test out but with having a baby this month I havent had much time to play with it... I took it to the range one time to zero and shoot a little at 200yd and I really like it. Threw it on my 20" Bartlein DMR... will get to play with it a little more shortly.

 

[nn8734]

My mk12 mod 1 has a NF 2.5-10x42 mil-r and Trijicon rmr at 1 o’clock. It’s set up for point blank out to 800m which is as far as I typically shoot it.

LPVO is also fine but on an 18” id prefer a little more mag as I wouldn’t be running it on 1x/low mag setting ever anyway unless my RDS shit the bed.

 

[wade2big]

You’re the one that is going to have to decide what your primary purpose is for a designated marksman type rifle (technically a 5.56mm DMR has a 20” barrel and a 5.56mm SPR has an 18” barrel). I have Aimpoints and LPVOs in 1-4X and 1-6X on AR-15s with barrels that are shorter than 18”, so for me personally, I want a scope that has a higher magnification than those options on a DMR type rifle, but not as high of a magnification that I would be using on something that is strictly a “target rifle” or “long range” rifle.

Since my AR-15s with shorter barrels than 18” have optics set-up for 1X magnification, having 1X magnification on my DMR type rifle is not the priority for me. For the higher end of magnification on a DMR type rifle 10X magnification has worked well for my personal criteria. Scopes with 10X magnification on the high end (and not 1X on the low end), tend to have 2.5X – 3X magnification on the low end. I also definitely want adjustable parallax for this type of application. With those aspects in mind on of my current favorites for use with a DMR type rifle is Nightforce NXS 2.5 - 10 X 42 Compact.

This scope is available with MOA or mil turrets, with MOA or mil reticles and it has a ZERO-STOP elevation turret. It has side-adjustment parallax that is adjustable from 25 yards to infinity. It comes with a factory magnification-ring throw-lever that is removable.

The scope has user switchable red and green illumination. Naturally, this scope has the excellent glass, durability and precisely repeatable turret adjustments on which Nightforce has built its reputation.

This scope has all of the above features along with the benefits of a 42mm objective, all while having a smaller footprint than traditional 10X scopes, such as the Leupold shown below on my 18” Noveske SPR barreled AR-15.

…

Which stock is this?

 

[roostercogburn98]

@wade2big
Looks like the Magpul ubr

 

[diggler1833]

My 18" DMR is an FN DMR II. It is my current ranch rifle that I use to kill everything that needs it around here.

Depending on your needs/use will make a huge impact on the optic you would be best suited with.

I run a 1-8x on mine. I believe it to be a near perfect balance of speed on the low end for jumping off a 4-wheeler or SxS and shooting something running. 8x on top is plenty good for coyotes to 300, which would be the max distance I'd take a shot at anything and expect the bullet to perform as intended (64gr Speer Gold Dot).

Most if the stuff I've killed with mine have had the optic on 3-4x, and been in the 50-150 yard range.

I don't get caught up in running high magnification. Not that it is bad, but I have other rifles that are better suited for it.

 

[wade2big]

@wade2big
Looks like the Magpul ubr

It does but I thought the Magpul ubr stocks were enclosed and didn't have the see through cut out.

 

[padom]

It does but I thought the Magpul ubr stocks were enclosed and didn't have the see through cut out.

Appears the storage compartment doors are removed

 

[roostercogburn98]

It does but I thought the Magpul ubr stocks were enclosed and didn't have the see through cut out.

 

[ArchibaldShoebuckle275]

Ive used primary arms 4-16x and a 2.5-10x. I like the 4-16 better honestly. I copied the concept of the MK12 with the 2.5-10 but ended up putting my 4-16 on there and it’s superior in my opinion. But the 2.5-10 is good too for the flexibility. I just don’t have much interest in CQB ability for my 18”. I guess simply put the 4-16 allows me to put a round exactly where I want at 500 versus the 2.5-10 being somewhat limiting with smaller targets at 500. I say 500 because I had a chance to run my new build and that’s all the room I had to play with. I pushed the 2.5-10 to 600 on a silhouette and it was good I just couldn’t be as precise.

 

[Vivacious Stallion]

I have a seekins precision 18" build that is kinda what you're describing. I went with the 2-12 Athlon BTR for it. I'm pretty impressed with it and it is a good optic for human targets 600m and closer. If this is a Spr/Dmr type build I would add more magnification to help stretch its capabilities. I find this rifle is a great option to help teach people to shoot longer range on (as modeled by my buddy below). No recoil and not so much magnification that they are cranking the scope to 25x everytime I turn away and then can't find the target.

 

[BCP]

I've tried a few scopes with the 1-X and they always end up on X so I'd vote a 3-15 of some sort.

I run my 18" DMR with a 3.5x10 mark 4 easy hits on target out to 800. I don't shoot indoors so I am sure it would be overkill inside at short distances

I have a couple of those old mark 4s with the M3 dials hoarded away, one is the 3-9 and the other 3.5-10. They work great on 223 ARs.

 

[MontanaMan]

You’re the one that is going to have to decide what your primary purpose is for a designated marksman type rifle (technically a 5.56mm DMR has a 20” barrel and a 5.56mm SPR has an 18” barrel). I have Aimpoints and LPVOs in 1-4X and 1-6X on AR-15s with barrels that are shorter than 18”, so for me personally, I want a scope that has a higher magnification than those options on a DMR type rifle, but not as high of a magnification that I would be using on something that is strictly a “target rifle” or “long range” rifle.

Since my AR-15s with shorter barrels than 18” have optics set-up for 1X magnification, having 1X magnification on my DMR type rifle is not the priority for me. For the higher end of magnification on a DMR type rifle 10X magnification has worked well for my personal criteria. Scopes with 10X magnification on the high end (and not 1X on the low end), tend to have 2.5X – 3X magnification on the low end. I also definitely want adjustable parallax for this type of application. With those aspects in mind on of my current favorites for use with a DMR type rifle is Nightforce NXS 2.5 - 10 X 42 Compact.

This scope is available with MOA or mil turrets, with MOA or mil reticles and it has a ZERO-STOP elevation turret. It has side-adjustment parallax that is adjustable from 25 yards to infinity. It comes with a factory magnification-ring throw-lever that is removable.

The scope has user switchable red and green illumination. Naturally, this scope has the excellent glass, durability and precisely repeatable turret adjustments on which Nightforce has built its reputation.

This scope has all of the above features along with the benefits of a 42mm objective, all while having a smaller footprint than traditional 10X scopes, such as the Leupold shown below on my 18” Noveske SPR barreled AR-15.

…

I'm of the same mindset as Molon, but since I can't afford several of the NF NXS's, I generally go with the 3-10x SHV.

This is a Viltor MUR upper with an 18" WOA, fluted 18" barrel.

MM

 

[SMTGWKD]

I find that the weight of the optic both follows and determines use for me. If I have a rifle with a lightweight dot or lpvo I often choose that over a longer-barreled rifle with a heavier optic to run a course - both do the job, but one does so more easily and with less fatigue. If the weight of both optics is similar (thinking pst gen 2 line here as an example) it's tough not to grab the one with 2ish power on the low end for the better clarity and ID on the top end. I really wish there was a better reticle in an optic like the recent Leupold Mark lpvo - great glass and super lightweight!

In short, either option would be great, but if this is a "designated" rifle to perform a different task than your all around 14.5 or 16, then I would make it different enough that you have a reason to choose it and not the other given the particular course of fire.

I'd go 2 or 2.5 to 10 or 12

 

[ArchibaldShoebuckle275]

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/spr-dmr-matches-what-are-you-running.7027557/#post-8841840

Check out this thread too of guys talking about DMR setups for matches.

 

[502Chevelle]

You are already looking at an Athlon, so take a look at the Ares 1-10. Run 1x for the cqb and turn it up to reach out a little. You WILL want a straight 1x if you are going to be running matches. 2X or even 1.5 messes with my eyes very bad, and 1x is the way to go. I’m currently running a 1-6, purchased before more power was made available on the top end. I would upgrade to the Ares in a minute, but I have several rifles already that cover that territory so I’m just not spending the money right now when the 1-6 is doing ok.

 

[Billiam1211]

I have the PLX 1-8x Griffin MIL on my 18” AR. My only negative on that optic is the lack of zero stop, but with the Griffin MIL you’ll be using hold overs. Depends what you want to do. It’s pretty good up close on 1x, I’m definitely a bit faster with my 12.3” pistol and red dot. That is most certainly due to practice.

Smaller targets can be challenging with only 8x magnification. At 600 yards hitting a 66% is no problem. Once targets get smaller than that, things get interesting. I set up an 8" circle at 400 yards to practice PRS barricade with my bolt gun. Tried it with my AR on 8x and it was really challenging, so set your expectations properly. You likely won't be shooting 1 MOA targets at distance with that optic.

 

[Longrangeprecision762]

18" Noveske N4 with a Gen 1 pst 2.5x10x32

 

[MK20]

Athlon Ares ETR 1-10.

 

[MK20]

In 5.56/.223 -- 1-10 , 1-8 with a minidot. I run an RMR / Razor Gen3 on my Criterion 18" build

You know they make 20 round mags, right?

 

[hlee]

You know they make 20 round mags, right?

Maybe he's in one of those restricted states and is limited to 10 round mags...

 

[The22Man]

Vortex Strike Eagle SE-1624-1 (1-6x24 30mm tube) compared to the Crimson Trace CSA-3108 (1-8x25 34mm tube) scopes
Compared at 1x, 3x and 6x the Crimson trace is clearer at distance with one eye closed at 110 and 272 yards.
At 1x doing a snap up to target, both eyes open the Vortex was easier, quicker and clearer.
The reticle on the Strike Eagle made it more difficult to precision aim at a bird. It was covered by the reticle.
Weight, on my postal scale, the Crimson trace weighs in at a hefty 23.3 Oz and the Strike Eagle at 18.7 oz. Neither are light.

I bought but have not tested the Leupold VX- Freedom 1.5-4x20, thought it probably does not meet your distance needs.
I do have a Nikon 2-8x32 M-223 on my daughters AR. It was inexpensive and meets her needs.

 

[TacticalPlinker]

You know they make 20 round mags, right?

Not for people stuck in Socialist States. Fortunately Red State freedom is in my future

 

[Schleifalot]

Some thougts from Germany...
My first DMR was a 16" German Made AR with folding ironsights and an old Hensoldt FERO Z24 4x24. This rig was an excellent rifle out to 600m. First round hits at 16x16" targets from "rucksackprone" in under 20 seconds were the norm. Start standing with backpack slung, signal, pack down, go prone, shoot.
Then my eyes got worden, I could no longer focus the reticle.
Sold the Z24, bought a used Swarovski 1,5-6x42 reticle 4. OUTSTANDING SCOPE! I can observe impacts in the dirt at 500m with it.
With a similar scope on my AR10 I shot at a driven hunt three boars at under 50m in under 10 seconds. So this setup works perfekt for me from 0-600.

My actual go AR15. Just completed, has to be shot properly in next weekend.

 

[AleksanderSuave]

Need to decide on a few things, since you said you're a bolt gun guy, are you planning on shooting this as a bench rifle? or a run and gun setup? The gear needs to fit the purpose, and with that, you have a 2 important distinctions here.

1. If its a run and gun rifle, you need to put emphasis on a comfortable weight. I have a 1-6x LVPO on a 16" combat rifle, and plan on removing it to shift to a flip up magnifier + 1x optic combo. https://www.eurooptic.com/Trijicon-...ticle-w-20-MOA-Dot-Full-Co-Witness-AC320.aspx. I ran this rifle without the LVPO (irons only) in my last course and was really impressed by how much more comfortable it was to use in a 10 hour setting, with various movements, and prone shooting. The goal moving forward was to try to get as close to that irons-only weight as possible. That came down to either this Trijicon combo, or a dedicated acog 4x (again, weight reduction being crucial).

2. if its a bench gun, you may want higher power magnification. My 18" SPR just went through some upgrades as well and got a carbon fiber fore-end (in case I do need to ever try run and gun with it) and magpul PRS lite stock but at 18", its more of a "mid range AR" that will likely live as a bench gun more than any run and gun scenario. In that setting, I found a 1-6 to be too low magnification (spend most time in 6x) and would likely go to a 3-15x as towerofpower93 previously mentioned.

 

[BoulderE89]

Need to decide on a few things, since you said you're a bolt gun guy, are you planning on shooting this as a bench rifle? or a run and gun setup? The gear needs to fit the purpose, and with that, you have a 2 important distinctions here.

1. If its a run and gun rifle, you need to put emphasis on a comfortable weight. I have a 1-6x LVPO on a 16" combat rifle, and plan on removing it to shift to a flip up magnifier + 1x optic combo. https://www.eurooptic.com/Trijicon-...ticle-w-20-MOA-Dot-Full-Co-Witness-AC320.aspx. I ran this rifle without the LVPO (irons only) in my last course and was really impressed by how much more comfortable it was to use in a 10 hour setting, with various movements, and prone shooting. The goal moving forward was to try to get as close to that irons-only weight as possible. That came down to either this Trijicon combo, or a dedicated acog 4x (again, weight reduction being crucial).

2. if its a bench gun, you may want higher power magnification. My 18" SPR just went through some upgrades as well and got a carbon fiber fore-end (in case I do need to ever try run and gun with it) and magpul PRS lite stock but at 18", its more of a "mid range AR" that will likely live as a bench gun more than any run and gun scenario. In that setting, I found a 1-6 to be too low magnification (spend most time in 6x) and would likely go to a 3-15x as towerofpower93 previously mentioned.

I have an 11.5 that is my true run and gun but I still view this rifle as more run and gun, field and practical use than a bench gun like my AR10 which is heavy and built towards the prs gas gun side of things

 

[AleksanderSuave]

I have an 11.5 that is my true run and gun but I still view this rifle as more run and gun, field and practical use than a bench gun like my AR10 which is heavy and built towards the prs gas gun side of things

Yeah I'd look at that eotech 4x, if you do plan on running and gunning at all, or the trijicon combo. Just really comes down to figuring out how far you wanna shoot.

 

[LRRPF52]

Most times I see questions about DMR, what the person is actually looking for is a semi-auto light target rifle.

For me, a DMR is something that allows a soldier in a Rifle Squad to be able to shoot, move, communicate like a Rifleman duty position, but then provide better SA to the Squad with good optics for target detection and PID at longer ranges, as well as being able to provide accurate fire on those targets.

That basically makes exposed turrets a liability for that role, as they get bumped, shear off (have seen it on Mk IV Leupold), and are snag hazards with easy-to-lose zero.

Those scopes are great for the bench and prone on a clean range where the maneuver scheme only involves moving from the car to the bench or firing line, but you really have to watch them in the field.

Exit pupil and eye relief forgiveness are more of a priority for me on a practical lightweight carbine for DMR use, as is the reticle. If it’s hard to get into the sight picture from positions while wearing gear, then it isn’t well-suited.

I’m at a point where I’m looking for scope manufacturers to make the lowest profile capped knobs as possible on a really clean tube, with large Exit Pupil and long eye relief. Drop and wind compensation all being done in the reticle for a practical rifle.

 

[Anderhammer52]

I have a home built 18” 223 wylde rifle. I am looking to put a scope on it. I am mainly a bolt gun guy so I am not looking to drop serious money on something I won’t frequently use. I am torn between 2 scopes and therefore, 2 approaches to a DMR. Both scopes are nearly identical in price to that’s a wash

1. Athlon helos 2-12 scope. It has a good reticle, but it is more geared towards the longer range side of using this weapon. Wouldn’t be the most handy in quick shooting or would be overkill in an indoor range. 12x on a dmr is nice to have.

2. Primary arms 1-8 FFP with a griffin mil reticle. This is more geared towards close up shooting with a 1x power, but has the mil system in the reticle if I do take shots out to distance. Definitely not ideal but useable at that mag range out to 600 ish

What would you choose? What is your preferred emphasis with a DMR rifle?

I literally just had this same dilemma. I have an 18in solgw upper with a spr barrel. It was riding on a lower with a prs stock and had an Athlon 3-18 on top. Great bench gun but that's all it was good for. Shooting it offhand was a nightmare and lugging it around was not fun either. I had the idea to make it a practical rifle or a "mountain gun". So I put it on a lower that has an a5 tube and a bcm stock. But most importantly I took my primary arms platinum 1-8 griffin mil and dropped it on there and it's amazing. Night and day from the setup before. I have only played from 0-400. I shot the previous set up to 1000 but enjoy its current configuration so much more. Wouldn't ever go back to the old one. Plan on playing put to 800 soon

 

[W54/XM-388]

Most times I see questions about DMR, what the person is actually looking for is a semi-auto light target rifle.

For me, a DMR is something that allows a soldier in a Rifle Squad to be able to shoot, move, communicate like a Rifleman duty position, but then provide better SA to the Squad with good optics for target detection and PID at longer ranges, as well as being able to provide accurate fire on those targets.

That basically makes exposed turrets a liability for that role, as they get bumped, shear off (have seen it on Mk IV Leupold), and are snag hazards with easy-to-lose zero.

Those scopes are great for the bench and prone on a clean range where the maneuver scheme only involves moving from the car to the bench or firing line, but you really have to watch them in the field.

Exit pupil and eye relief forgiveness are more of a priority for me on a practical lightweight carbine for DMR use, as is the reticle. If it’s hard to get into the sight picture from positions while wearing gear, then it isn’t well-suited.

I’m at a point where I’m looking for scope manufacturers to make the lowest profile capped knobs as possible on a really clean tube, with large Exit Pupil and long eye relief. Drop and wind compensation all being done in the reticle for a practical rifle.

Chances of the OP ever using this rifle on a 2 way range probably = 0

 

[W54/XM-388]

I have a home built 18” 223 wylde rifle. I am looking to put a scope on it. I am mainly a bolt gun guy so I am not looking to drop serious money on something I won’t frequently use. I am torn between 2 scopes and therefore, 2 approaches to a DMR. Both scopes are nearly identical in price to that’s a wash

1. Athlon helos 2-12 scope. It has a good reticle, but it is more geared towards the longer range side of using this weapon. Wouldn’t be the most handy in quick shooting or would be overkill in an indoor range. 12x on a dmr is nice to have.

2. Primary arms 1-8 FFP with a griffin mil reticle. This is more geared towards close up shooting with a 1x power, but has the mil system in the reticle if I do take shots out to distance. Definitely not ideal but useable at that mag range out to 600 ish

What would you choose? What is your preferred emphasis with a DMR rifle?

Here is my thoughts based on what I have setup.

If you actually want this rifle to be setup as a self defense close range rifle, with going to the range and doing some speed drills at 50 yards to 300 yards, AND don't might the weight, the Primary Arms Platinum series with either the MIL or the BDC reticle is a good choice. I would actually say the BDC reticle is better if you actually plan this to be the rifle you grab to defend your house and immediate property or vehicle with, and want more than just 1x magnification available.

If you want this rifle to be a target rifle and gaming rifle that you mostly want to go shoot groups with, have fun with some shooting games and generally play around on the range while dreaming about the day you'd be actually taking any long shots against targets, then you should give a serious look to the
Vortex RAZOR HD LHT, 4.5-22X50 It will come in close in weight to the Primary Arms and if you get a good deal, close in price. For the money, it is an excellent scope to put on an AR.

Now if you are trying to make this a very light AR, then you'll need to change your optics ideas to fit the light category.

I wouldn't get all hung up in the "DMR" label, pick the scope for what you intend to do with the rifle mostly.
Odds are you'll be dead of something else before you ever actually had to use the rifle against humans.

 

[LRRPF52]

Chances of the OP ever using this rifle on a 2 way range probably = 0

The most relevant area where I see a lot of the desired features for a true field-worthy DMR translate to the civilian side is when it comes to hunting.

I don’t want exposed target knobs on a hunting rifle that will be carried in the field if I can help it. I want it to be light, accurate, user-friendly, easy to shoot from positions, and robust to drops, impacts, strapped to a 4-wheeler, bumped along the way up into a blind, and weather-resistant.

There are a lot of opportunities for a hunter to benefit from the major performance enhancements that have happened because of the SPR and SDMR programs.

 

[drewthebrave]

My lightweight 18" 5.56 AR started out with a Leupold 3-9x VX-R Patrol to keep weight down while still supporting long-range effectiveness. It's a great optic and 9x was a very capable magnification for everything out to 600 yards (where my range topped out). But I ultimately shot that rifle mostly from supported positons (bench, bipod, tripod) and decided to put a 2.5-15x Ares BTR on it for the FFP reticle & more magnification. Now that I've been using it for a while, I absolutely love the extra magnification and have no desire to go back down to 9x. So I'd say an 18" deserves as much magnification as you can (reasonably) put on it.

I have since moved my 3-9x VX-R to my 14.7" Recce where its low weight & mag range suits the more maneuverable rifle really well. If you're only shooting targets at an indoor range, any LPVO (or even a red dot) will get the job done. If you're using your bolt guns primarily for long range, and this AR is intended to be more of a versatile tool, the 1-8x can be an effective "do everything" optic for you. But I'd still lean towards the 2-12x for higher top-end magnification & larger objective lens - especially since 2x on the low end is plenty fast & capable for an 18" rifle. You may find you like that 12x on the top end more than you realize...

 

[912173]

I have an atacr 4-16x42 on my SPRish gun and I don't mind it at all. If I ever needed to use it for fast shooting, I would add a red dot on top. Hands free transition between zero mag and 4x would be nice. I had a swfa 1-6 and I hated cranking magnification back and forth. However, my gun is a light semi auto precision rifle first and the quick shooting is an afterthought. The 1-6x makes more sense if you are occasionally stretching out a carbine.