Zero Compromise Optic MPCT3 reticle

CSTactical

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ZERO COMPROMISE OPTIC is excited to announce a new reticle to our already highly popular MPCT line. The MPCT3 reticle takes several steps forward in reticle design with newly developed features by ZCO.

Please check out the MPCT3 reticle at SHOT Show, booth number 3562.

We have heard the request from numerous shooters across the world for a tree style reticle option utilizing dots instead of solid lines. The dot design has several advantages with less image obstruction being the biggest advantage. Shooters using our MPCT line of reticles have also requested some other modifications which the MPCT3 has incorporated.
Advancements in reticle design include the Fatal Funnel quick ranging concept that was developed over two years ago by our staff. Our quick ranging Fatal Funnel design is the most comprehensive design on the market by being able to provide a direct range readout on four different sized target widths with only one system. These target widths encompass 100% IPSC, 66% IPSC, 50% IPSC, and any other targets with 18, 12, 9, or 6-inch widths.

Other advancements reside in the tree portion of the reticle where we utilize a series of open circles at the whole-mil locations thus speeding discrimination of reticle hold points but keeping the reticle as “open” as possible. No longer are marginally different sized dots the distinguishing factor which can be a strain to the shooters eye.

We have also integrated engraved wind hold values for both 3 mils right and left throughout the tree. These tree reticle designs provide the most advantage when holding for both elevation and wind. By incorporating an engraved 3R and 3L indicating a 3 mil hold either Right or Left, counting dots has nearly become obsolete for a proper wind hold, especially at increased elevation holds. Making an accurate wind hold just became so much faster.

Of course, we have retained all other design parameters from the MPCT line such as the center section and maintaining an uncluttered view down to two mils below center. The all new MPCT3 reticle enhances the ZCO reticle portfolio significantly with enhancements on our current reticle designs and newly developed concepts to make operator usage much easier and faster in the field.
 

wjm308

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Thank you ZCO for incorporating dots, but is there a better image of the reticle, those tiny images make it hard to discern, at first glance the reticle actually looks busier than the MPCT2 which I was hoping to get away from, almost looks more HORUS like or GR2ID which I'm not a huge fan of.
 
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Gil P.

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Where can I find a better picture of the reticle?
Nevermind, it's on Facebook.
 
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A&8's

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Eh! I like my Mcpt2 better. Only thing I like about the 3 is the vertical stopping at 2 mil hold under. That, I do like.
 
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jinxx4ever

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some resemblance to the Kahles AMR? initial impression, don't see me buying it, but i'm sure others will like it. I am in line to get the 2
 

Winny94

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Ehh...Hopefully the MCPT2 isnt being discontinued. The only pro for me would be the hold under stopping at 2 Mil, but then its negated by the funnel (which im sure is helpful to some, but id never have a use for it). The MCPT2 is a fantastic reticle
 
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kthomas

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some resemblance to the Kahles AMR? initial impression, don't see me buying it, but i'm sure others will like it. I am in line to get the 2
Doesn't seem to extend down and to the side as much as the AMR reticle.

IMO, the AMR reticle is the best ELR reticle out there.

Not sure how I feel about the circles on the MPCT3 reticle. Would have to get behind one and shoot with it to have any opinions about it.
 

Gil P.

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The reticle makes me a little sad, but I'll get over it.
I wish the center dot was 5 hundredths, I wouldn't get any use out of the speed ranging feature for Ipsc targets. It would be nice if it wasn't there.
 
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Guthwine

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Looks like the Mil4+ and AMR had a baby. Imho the rings make the 0.2 subtensions harder to read. But with these kinds of reticles you always have to see it through the scope to truly judge it.
 
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CSTactical

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Ehh...Hopefully the MCPT2 isnt being discontinued. The only pro for me would be the hold under stopping at 2 Mil, but then its negated by the funnel (which im sure is helpful to some, but id never have a use for it). The MCPT2 is a fantastic reticle
The MPCT2 is not being discontinued, it's just another option :)
 
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gebhardt02

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Greetings everyone! I wanted to wait a few hours for people to see it, get some initial impressions, and make comments before I posted anything else.

These are just the drawings and we all know that the reticle drawings always look different than the actual view through the scope. I can honestly tell you that the image is significantly less obstructed with the new MPCT3 than it is with the MPCT2 due to the dots and the size of them.

Our goal with the MPCT3 was to increase speed and efficiency for holding while opening up the image. Not much point in designing a new reticle if it doesn't give an advantage, so that was our goal, and I believe the MPCT3 does that. Let me explain.

We utilized open circles at the whole mil points throughout the reticle. There leaves absolutely no doubt where the whole mil is, your eye finds it super fast. End users also wanted dots for the tree, for good reason, they are less obtrusive. So implementing open circles at whole mils with dots at the 0.2 points keeps things very symmetric to the eye. You also aren't looking for a fatter dot or some other design for the whole mils. So back to speed and efficiency, you aren't spending as much time locating your hold point.

As customers have already noticed with our MPCT2, since the tree doesn't start until 2 mils down, your eye doesn't even notice the tree unless you need it. We kept the same concept here. The beginning of the tree starts at 2 mils down but some customers still wanted some reference point within the first mil, so instead of having a single dot at some value, to keep consistency, we used an open circles at the whole mil.

The rest of the full dot matrix starts at 3 mils down. This reticle is designed for holding both elevation and wind when needed, but be highly functional to dialing as well, so that is why we put the whole matrix at 3 mils down. Incorporating both horizontal as well as vertical 0.2 mil spaced dots greatly aids precise holds especially when holding for lots of wind. We didn't include a dot at the 1/2 mil locations as we didn't feel it added any benefit but would only add clutter.

When I had our first prototype MPCT3 right next to the MPCT2, seriously, the total image obstruction was quite a bit less with this new reticle. IMO, if you like having a tree for only a few shots but dial the majority of the time, your eye will dig this reticle once you see it through the scope and use it.

Regarding the Fatal Funnel, it is also positioned at 3 mils up, so will be completely out of the way if you don't need it. But it is still available if you need a rapid ranging function for milling a target. And it's functionality is much higher than any other rapid ranging feature from any other manufacturer that I'm aware of. Most of those are some form of stair step arrangements along the horizontal crosshair.

If you are coming to SHOT, please stop by and see the MPCT3 in person. I know you'll actually be very pleased with the usability and feel of the image.

Oh, we absolutely will NOT be discontinuing the MPCT2! I also agree, it is a super reticle and our best seller. The MPCT3 is an addition to our line up.

Thanks!
 

RS14

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I definitely prefer my mpct2. However I see the benefit of this new one. And believe many people will benefit from it. Just not me. But it makes me happy to see y’all coming out with more options so soon. Keep up the great work.
 

samb300

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@gebhardt02 I'll say that based on the images, I prefer the MPCT2. However, if the MPCT2 had the "reference points" that the MPCT3 has at the -1 MIL mark, it would make it just about perfect. I like doing holdovers to save time on stages where the elevation is only 1 or 2 mils different between targets, so not having the tree start at all until -2 MILS is a drawback for my style of shooting.
 

goosed

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I actually like the stadia line better than any of their reticles to date. Having all of the .2's stay on one side of the line and the .5 on the opposite side is far more natural and faster for my eyes/mind than previous options. The mil-dots definitely draw my eyes to them, which I like. Would need to look through the actual scope at targets to see if the dots become obtrusive and block out too much of the target or not. Was a mixed bag way back when mil-dots were common.

The part I don't like is the tree starting at 1 mil. Those two dots are the first thing my eye is drawn to and that's certainly not where I want my eyes drawn. Maybe through the scope would be different than the photo, but initial impression is I wish they would go away and just start the tree at 2 mils as that part doesn't draw my eye unless I want to be looking there. The rest of the tree is well thought out and will work very fast. Though, I will still prefer to dial whenever time permits.

Funnel on top is... well... I'm sure someone somewhere will like and use it. I'm not that guy.
 

dbransco

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I love the MPCT2, but also welcome options. I was just using my 4-20 with MPCT2 to hold a total of 38.X mils and 3+/- mils of wind. It was not a dynamic situation, but the reticle was very clear and usable!!
I love the complete package both the 4-20 and 5-27 provide.
 

wjm308

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I am nicknaming this the geyser reticle because it looks like a diagram of a geyser ;)

Like Nick mentioned, we have to wait to see it in person, but just looking at this diagram I am not liking the plethora of vertical dots connecting each horizontal tree line. Not sure I agree that the circles are easier to identify than thicker dots, I have had no issues with the MR4 reticle and the thicker dots at the full mil points. I suppose my hope for the MPCT3 was that it would be as unobtrusive as the MR4 and Gen III XR, all the circles in the tree seem distracting and all the vertical dots give it a very busy look. This "looks" a lot busier than the MPCT2 and I do not like it based on the design but I will try my best to reserve conclusions until I see it.
 
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rydah

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Swing and a miss mate.
Seems like instead of listening to people and just adding dots to the MPCT1 reticle in a similar pattern to the MPCT2, which is all people wanted you tried to do something new. I would have expected something like the MILXT/MR4 reticles. This look busier than the MPCT2 and that ranging widget thing, I won’t even comment on that.
 

Threadcutter308

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gebhardt02 I would like to relate a story about my experiences with one of your competitors and offer some un-solicited advice, which is not something that I normally do.

I had purchased multiple copies of an Alpha Scope manufacturer's products in the range of 2 to 2.5 years ago. They have a well deserved reputation for offering some of the best, top tier glass in the world. They were all the rage back when I bought mine and there was a waiting list, the wait being protracted because they were/are manufactured in Germany and have to be imported.

When I purchased mine, I did so with an authorized distributor with impeccable credentials. I have no beef with them whatsoever. The fundamental problem comes about because of one of the most idiotic and ridiculous "sales/marketing" ideas that I have ever seen. When I bought my scope(s), I paid damned near retail for them. There were (and via the hangover effect, even today) complaints about the "first to second revolution bump", mushy-ness of the clicks", etc. Over time, they appeared to have resolved these issues, but as I had what had become "older" units, my scopes now were perceived (real or imagined) as being "less desirable". Self-admittedly, I made no effort to contact the US sales arm of the manufacturer for resolution/upgrade, as those particular complaints never really bothered me, at least in the manner in which I was using the scopes.

In order to boost sales, the US sales organization (I assume, but wherever the decision was made inside the organization is of no consequence to me) decided it would be just a dandy idea to give 50% off of retail price of their scopes, if customers purchased one of their sister company's rifles. With the snap of a finger, my scopes were worth less than 50% of what I paid for them, and even less than that, given that mine were "used" and of an older, less desirable vintage. So, my very significant investment in this manufacturer's product was worth in the neighborhood of 35 to 40 percent of what I paid for them, literally, in the blink of an eye.

I cannot fathom how anyone could struggle to understand how that move on their part wouldn't severely and intensely dilute their brand and severely piss off their older, more loyal customers, myself included. As a side note, Dillon Precision has done something similar in terms of bone headed moves with the recent obsolescence of their XL-650 and introduction the XL-750. The 650 has been a fine machine for over 20 years. Dillon just diluted their 650 customers value in their quest for greater sales of the "new and improved" 750.

I was pretty well disgusted with the scope manufacturer and not real happy with Dillon. I swallowed hard and sold the scope(s) for very significant loss, in order to partially fund purchase(s) of your product. Upon initial introduction to the marketplace, I was intrigued by your product. Having taken delivery of multiple copies of your product, I am delighted with them.

My caution to you is to protect your customer's investment. You are selling a Mercedes Benz like product into the top (financial) tier of the marketplace. Do not make the same mistake of diluting your brand by offering ridiculous prices, or frequently obsoleting mature products that your customers have paid top dollar (and then some) for.

As far as the other scope manufacturer ? I will never purchase another product of theirs, ever again. I don't want to find myself in the same position with ZCO. Some may respond to this post and say that I did not have to sell at such a significant loss. They wouldn't be wrong, but that is missing the point. The value of the other brand of scopes that I had will never recover because the market has since become flooded with the 50% off scopes. The sales/marketing 50% off decision is probably viewed as a success inside of their sales organization, but that success was bought at mine and many other customer's expense. And, to top things off, the distributors (that I'm sure were also holding stock) got screwed because they had no mechanism provided to them to compete with the factory direct 50% off program.

As far as I'm concerned, the other manufacturer can go fuck themselves. I'm done with them. Forever. I'm not a fan of the astronomical prices that are being charged for Alpha class scopes, but I'm much less of a fan of being screwed by the manufacturer that I paid handsomely for their product. I can't imagine that the distributors that got screwed by them feel much different.

Protect your brand, protect your customers.
 

hk dave

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The MPCT-2 is an absolute winner. I can't see someone needing beyond the MPCT-1 or MPCT-2.

Unless we're talking some more uncommon shooting practice.

This new reticle is certainly serviceable. I can see how it would be less obstructive. Personally never liked the AMR squares.

Personally would go with the MPCT-2 over this in any application I can personally think of.

Not to say this won't work, I just know I wouldn't buy it.
 
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goosed

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gebhardt02 I would like to relate a story about my experiences with one of your competitors and offer some un-solicited advice, which is not something that I normally do.

I had purchased multiple copies of an Alpha Scope manufacturer's products in the range of 2 to 2.5 years ago. They have a well deserved reputation for offering some of the best, top tier glass in the world. They were all the rage back when I bought mine and there was a waiting list, the wait being protracted because they were/are manufactured in Germany and have to be imported.

When I purchased mine, I did so with an authorized distributor with impeccable credentials. I have no beef with them whatsoever. The fundamental problem comes about because of one of the most idiotic and ridiculous "sales/marketing" ideas that I have ever seen. When I bought my scope(s), I paid damned near retail for them. There were (and via the hangover effect, even today) complaints about the "first to second revolution bump", mushy-ness of the clicks", etc. Over time, they appeared to have resolved these issues, but as I had what had become "older" units, my scopes now were perceived (real or imagined) as being "less desirable". Self-admittedly, I made no effort to contact the US sales arm of the manufacturer for resolution/upgrade, as those particular complaints never really bothered me, at least in the manner in which I was using the scopes.

In order to boost sales, the US sales organization (I assume, but wherever the decision was made inside the organization is of no consequence to me) decided it would be just a dandy idea to give 50% off of retail price of their scopes, if customers purchased one of their sister company's rifles. With the snap of a finger, my scopes were worth less than 50% of what I paid for them, and even less than that, given that mine were "used" and of an older, less desirable vintage. So, my very significant investment in this manufacturer's product was worth in the neighborhood of 35 to 40 percent of what I paid for them, literally, in the blink of an eye.

I cannot fathom how anyone could struggle to understand how that move on their part wouldn't severely and intensely dilute their brand and severely piss off their older, more loyal customers, myself included. As a side note, Dillon Precision has done something similar in terms of bone headed moves with the recent obsolescence of their XL-650 and introduction the XL-750. The 650 has been a fine machine for over 20 years. Dillon just diluted their 650 customers value in their quest for greater sales of the "new and improved" 750.

I was pretty well disgusted with the scope manufacturer and not real happy with Dillon. I swallowed hard and sold the scope(s) for very significant loss, in order to partially fund purchase(s) of your product. Upon initial introduction to the marketplace, I was intrigued by your product. Having taken delivery of multiple copies of your product, I am delighted with them.

My caution to you is to protect your customer's investment. You are selling a Mercedes Benz like product into the top (financial) tier of the marketplace. Do not make the same mistake of diluting your brand by offering ridiculous prices, or frequently obsoleting mature products that your customers have paid top dollar (and then some) for.

As far as the other scope manufacturer ? I will never purchase another product of theirs, ever again. I don't want to find myself in the same position with ZCO. Some may respond to this post and say that I did not have to sell at such a significant loss. They wouldn't be wrong, but that is missing the point. The value of the other brand of scopes that I had will never recover because the market has since become flooded with the 50% off scopes. The sales/marketing 50% off decision is probably viewed as a success inside of their sales organization, but that success was bought at mine and many other customer's expense. And, to top things off, the distributors (that I'm sure were also holding stock) got screwed because they had no mechanism provided to them to compete with the factory direct 50% off program.

As far as I'm concerned, the other manufacturer can go fuck themselves. I'm done with them. Forever. I'm not a fan of the astronomical prices that are being charged for Alpha class scopes, but I'm much less of a fan of being screwed by the manufacturer that I paid handsomely for their product. I can't imagine that the distributors that got screwed by them feel much different.

Protect your brand, protect your customers.
It's not uncommon for things to drop 50% in value or more. Example: AI AW used value went from $6000 to $2500 or less over night when AT dropped. So did my pre-14 ax, it happens.

If you can't stand getting burned stay further away from the flame of the shiny hottness.

No sense dragging ZCO into this...
 

jwknutson17

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gebhardt02 I would like to relate a story about my experiences with one of your competitors and offer some un-solicited advice, which is not something that I normally do.

I had purchased multiple copies of an Alpha Scope manufacturer's products in the range of 2 to 2.5 years ago. They have a well deserved reputation for offering some of the best, top tier glass in the world. They were all the rage back when I bought mine and there was a waiting list, the wait being protracted because they were/are manufactured in Germany and have to be imported.

When I purchased mine, I did so with an authorized distributor with impeccable credentials. I have no beef with them whatsoever. The fundamental problem comes about because of one of the most idiotic and ridiculous "sales/marketing" ideas that I have ever seen. When I bought my scope(s), I paid damned near retail for them. There were (and via the hangover effect, even today) complaints about the "first to second revolution bump", mushy-ness of the clicks", etc. Over time, they appeared to have resolved these issues, but as I had what had become "older" units, my scopes now were perceived (real or imagined) as being "less desirable". Self-admittedly, I made no effort to contact the US sales arm of the manufacturer for resolution/upgrade, as those particular complaints never really bothered me, at least in the manner in which I was using the scopes.

In order to boost sales, the US sales organization (I assume, but wherever the decision was made inside the organization is of no consequence to me) decided it would be just a dandy idea to give 50% off of retail price of their scopes, if customers purchased one of their sister company's rifles. With the snap of a finger, my scopes were worth less than 50% of what I paid for them, and even less than that, given that mine were "used" and of an older, less desirable vintage. So, my very significant investment in this manufacturer's product was worth in the neighborhood of 35 to 40 percent of what I paid for them, literally, in the blink of an eye.

I cannot fathom how anyone could struggle to understand how that move on their part wouldn't severely and intensely dilute their brand and severely piss off their older, more loyal customers, myself included. As a side note, Dillon Precision has done something similar in terms of bone headed moves with the recent obsolescence of their XL-650 and introduction the XL-750. The 650 has been a fine machine for over 20 years. Dillon just diluted their 650 customers value in their quest for greater sales of the "new and improved" 750.

I was pretty well disgusted with the scope manufacturer and not real happy with Dillon. I swallowed hard and sold the scope(s) for very significant loss, in order to partially fund purchase(s) of your product. Upon initial introduction to the marketplace, I was intrigued by your product. Having taken delivery of multiple copies of your product, I am delighted with them.

My caution to you is to protect your customer's investment. You are selling a Mercedes Benz like product into the top (financial) tier of the marketplace. Do not make the same mistake of diluting your brand by offering ridiculous prices, or frequently obsoleting mature products that your customers have paid top dollar (and then some) for.

As far as the other scope manufacturer ? I will never purchase another product of theirs, ever again. I don't want to find myself in the same position with ZCO. Some may respond to this post and say that I did not have to sell at such a significant loss. They wouldn't be wrong, but that is missing the point. The value of the other brand of scopes that I had will never recover because the market has since become flooded with the 50% off scopes. The sales/marketing 50% off decision is probably viewed as a success inside of their sales organization, but that success was bought at mine and many other customer's expense. And, to top things off, the distributors (that I'm sure were also holding stock) got screwed because they had no mechanism provided to them to compete with the factory direct 50% off program.

As far as I'm concerned, the other manufacturer can go fuck themselves. I'm done with them. Forever. I'm not a fan of the astronomical prices that are being charged for Alpha class scopes, but I'm much less of a fan of being screwed by the manufacturer that I paid handsomely for their product. I can't imagine that the distributors that got screwed by them feel much different.

Protect your brand, protect your customers.
It's a new recticle.... better sell your scope now so you dont take a hit years from now. You make an informed decision at the time of sale and at the time you were probably very happy with that decision. I dont worry about what the market does unless you bought it for strictly an investment. And scopes arent one of those things that go up in value.

You got two and a half years out of an alpha scope and are upset the value went down? What do you think would happen?
 
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Dthomas3523

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It's a new recticle.... better sell your scope now so you dont take a hit years from now. You make an informed decision at the time of sale and at the time you were probably very happy with that decision. I dont worry about what the market does unless you bought it for strictly an investment. And scopes arent one of those things that go up in value.

You got two and a half years out of an alpha scope and are upset the value went down? What do you think would happen?

As far as the 50% off deal and those companies.. you still had to buy a 700 dollar rifle. The resellers of said rifles are the ones who dropped those down to 399.. not the company. So for the folks doing that deal, they still had to buy a 700 dollar minimum rifle to be able to buy a scope for 1850 something. So being into it for 2500+ total. Which is what they were selling for from some vendors if you called and asked. I know I bought a few in that price range. Heck even for under 2k years ago from a certain reseller.

I was upset for a few when I bought an AXMC for 8k and two months later they went to $6,250. And then some even at $4999. Talk about taking a hit! But when I bought it, it was worth it at the time and I made the decision.
Many of the rifles were sub $500.

People were either buying the rifle and selling the cert or selling the rifle and keeping the cert.

It effectively made the price of a $3200 optic about $2100 or less. Did the math several times on that deal.
 

jwknutson17

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Many of the rifles were sub $500.

People were either buying the rifle and selling the cert or selling the rifle and keeping the cert.

It effectively made the price of a $3200 optic about $2100 or less. Did the math several times on that deal.
Yes it was a good deal and many folks were able to get into those optics. The rifles went to sub 500 but it was because of the retailers. The manufacture just supplied the coupon with proof of purchase. But yes, the rifles could be had for less.
 
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Dthomas3523

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Yes it was a good deal and many folks were able to get into those optics. The rifles went to sub 500 but it was because of the resellers. The manufacture just supplied the coupon with proof of purchase. But yes, the rifles could be had for less.
Are you considering retailers as “resalers”?
 
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Cascade Hemi

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gebhardt02 I would like to relate a story about my experiences with one of your competitors and offer some un-solicited advice, which is not something that I normally do.

I had purchased multiple copies of an Alpha Scope manufacturer's products in the range of 2 to 2.5 years ago. They have a well deserved reputation for offering some of the best, top tier glass in the world. They were all the rage back when I bought mine and there was a waiting list, the wait being protracted because they were/are manufactured in Germany and have to be imported.

When I purchased mine, I did so with an authorized distributor with impeccable credentials. I have no beef with them whatsoever. The fundamental problem comes about because of one of the most idiotic and ridiculous "sales/marketing" ideas that I have ever seen. When I bought my scope(s), I paid damned near retail for them. There were (and via the hangover effect, even today) complaints about the "first to second revolution bump", mushy-ness of the clicks", etc. Over time, they appeared to have resolved these issues, but as I had what had become "older" units, my scopes now were perceived (real or imagined) as being "less desirable". Self-admittedly, I made no effort to contact the US sales arm of the manufacturer for resolution/upgrade, as those particular complaints never really bothered me, at least in the manner in which I was using the scopes.

In order to boost sales, the US sales organization (I assume, but wherever the decision was made inside the organization is of no consequence to me) decided it would be just a dandy idea to give 50% off of retail price of their scopes, if customers purchased one of their sister company's rifles. With the snap of a finger, my scopes were worth less than 50% of what I paid for them, and even less than that, given that mine were "used" and of an older, less desirable vintage. So, my very significant investment in this manufacturer's product was worth in the neighborhood of 35 to 40 percent of what I paid for them, literally, in the blink of an eye.

I cannot fathom how anyone could struggle to understand how that move on their part wouldn't severely and intensely dilute their brand and severely piss off their older, more loyal customers, myself included. As a side note, Dillon Precision has done something similar in terms of bone headed moves with the recent obsolescence of their XL-650 and introduction the XL-750. The 650 has been a fine machine for over 20 years. Dillon just diluted their 650 customers value in their quest for greater sales of the "new and improved" 750.

I was pretty well disgusted with the scope manufacturer and not real happy with Dillon. I swallowed hard and sold the scope(s) for very significant loss, in order to partially fund purchase(s) of your product. Upon initial introduction to the marketplace, I was intrigued by your product. Having taken delivery of multiple copies of your product, I am delighted with them.

My caution to you is to protect your customer's investment. You are selling a Mercedes Benz like product into the top (financial) tier of the marketplace. Do not make the same mistake of diluting your brand by offering ridiculous prices, or frequently obsoleting mature products that your customers have paid top dollar (and then some) for.

As far as the other scope manufacturer ? I will never purchase another product of theirs, ever again. I don't want to find myself in the same position with ZCO. Some may respond to this post and say that I did not have to sell at such a significant loss. They wouldn't be wrong, but that is missing the point. The value of the other brand of scopes that I had will never recover because the market has since become flooded with the 50% off scopes. The sales/marketing 50% off decision is probably viewed as a success inside of their sales organization, but that success was bought at mine and many other customer's expense. And, to top things off, the distributors (that I'm sure were also holding stock) got screwed because they had no mechanism provided to them to compete with the factory direct 50% off program.

As far as I'm concerned, the other manufacturer can go fuck themselves. I'm done with them. Forever. I'm not a fan of the astronomical prices that are being charged for Alpha class scopes, but I'm much less of a fan of being screwed by the manufacturer that I paid handsomely for their product. I can't imagine that the distributors that got screwed by them feel much different.

Protect your brand, protect your customers.
Scopes and reloading presses are not investment tools. They are, in fact, consumable products in a commodity market. The only way not to lose money on either is to not buy either in the first place.
 

koshkin

Dark Lord Of Optics
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Feb 22, 2006
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www.opticsthoughts.com
Not sure how Minox and Dillon ended up in a thread on the new ZCO reticle, but let' see if we can get it back on track.

ZCO is on my list to visit on day 1 of the show, so I do not want to make too many conclusions without seeing the new reticle in the scope.

In principle I like it and I will probably like it more than MPCT2. I liked S&B's GR2ID reticle, but it is conceptually a very different design ideal for different kind of shooting.

The grid is around the center there for quick reticle corrections. That is closer to the way I like to shoot. I do not dial everything. I use the reticle around the center a lot, but I very seldom use the part of the tree that is more than 4-5 mrad away from center.

That having been said, Nick's explanation makes sense to me and I think this will prove their most popular reticle over time.

I have used this kind of a tree pattern in Kahles' AMR, March's FML-T1 and S&B's GR2ID and it has really grown on me over time.

ILya
 

gebhardt02

Sergeant
Belligerents
Jan 18, 2006
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www.zcompoptic.com
Not sure how Minox and Dillon ended up in a thread on the new ZCO reticle, but let' see if we can get it back on track.

ZCO is on my list to visit on day 1 of the show, so I do not want to make too many conclusions without seeing the new reticle in the scope.

In principle I like it and I will probably like it more than MPCT2. I liked S&B's GR2ID reticle, but it is conceptually a very different design ideal for different kind of shooting.

The grid is around the center there for quick reticle corrections. That is closer to the way I like to shoot. I do not dial everything. I use the reticle around the center a lot, but I very seldom use the part of the tree that is more than 4-5 mrad away from center.

That having been said, Nick's explanation makes sense to me and I think this will prove their most popular reticle over time.

I have used this kind of a tree pattern in Kahles' AMR, March's FML-T1 and S&B's GR2ID and it has really grown on me over time.

ILya
Thank you Ilya, and as always, we look forward to speaking with you and showing you the new reticle. Would love to hear your thoughts after you get to look at it through the scope. See you soon!
 

j-dubya

Dapper Dan Man
Belligerents
May 10, 2011
387
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Atlanta area
I for one am happy to see this design. All of my long term scopes have the H2CMR or Gen 2XR, so it’s what I know and like. Since S&B won’t put the Grid in a 3-20x, and TT won’t put the the 3XR in the 3-15x, I might actually deviate from my Premiers/Thetas to this one for my gas gun useage.
 
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wjm308

Send it!
Belligerents
Nov 30, 2012
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Black Forest, CO
So if this IPSC below was 12in it'd be 475yds away, if it was 18in it'd be 700 yds away? (Approx)?


View attachment 7228304
I don't think so, I think it's not centered but off the centerline, so in the below image, I would estimate a full 100% IPSC at 18" wide on the right side would be 500 yards based on this image, and the 66% IPSC is showing on the left at about 650 yards. For 50% IPSC you would double the yardage on the right, and for 6" target you would double the yardage on the left. Nick, please verify if I understood this and displayed it correctly.

Edit: removed image to avoid confusion
 
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