Range Report ZU-23`s in Afghanistan

[Forgetful Coyote]

So Ive seen a lot of videos and pictures showing Soviet 23mm autocannons, 14.5mm KPV`s, etc in the hands of Afghan insurgents.

Obviously nobody is going to volunteer to stand in front of one, but how accurate are these weapons? Or how far could they be expected to reliably hit a man-sized target? For instance, would these be a more formidable weapon than a good marksman with a .50 BMG bolt action?

It seems that you dont hear too much about our troops being shot at by these big weapons, but yet the Taliban and their ilk take every opportunity to show them off. So for those that have faced them or know more on the subject, are these weapons more intimidating than actually useful as far as long range antipersonnel weapons?

Thanks.

 

[bogeybrown]

ZSU-23-4 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The only time I ever saw them here was as part of a "display" on a camp or whatever where one had been seized or abandoned. I don't have any personal knowledge of them being utilized, although I don't suppose it's beyond possibility that a few may have used sporadically during the early days of the conflict.

Way back when I went through the Armor I.D. course these were highly regarded as things you didn't want to have shooting at you, as well as their big brothers the ZSU-57-2. They were seen as a threat to light/medium-skinned vehicles. Fortunately I never found out.

The biggest machine guns I ever had any personal dealings with were the DShK's, which are the soviet version of our M2 .50 cal. Although, these things would drown-out the noise of our .50's when both were shooting. You can thank our "allies" the Pakistanis as well as our buddies the Chinese for sending brand new ones into the fight so that the insurgents weren't forced to use old USSR leave-behinds.

DShK - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm sorry I don't have any first-hand knowledge of the 23-4, all I knew about it was that is was widely accepted as something you didn't want to be on the receiving end of. I adopted that view of pretty much EVERY weapon if I had the choice.

 

[EasyGravy]

They are very good in city environments. Granted the cave man operating them off the back of the technical pickup is not operating at the weopons full potential. That 23mm auto cannon will blow 2' holes in block or cased walls. So when you got 15 or 20 hadj blind firing from a wall, that 23mm will work great. Same thing for the smaller heavy mg. With a decent operator and platform those weapans can be real hammers. Though haj and terry barely meet the criteria for a trained crew served weopons crew. Hell, youtube has a video of a guy on back of truck open up too early and cuts down his own guys. Cant fix stupid. From my experiance, very few of them cant be honestly trained to fight, and an even greater few can excel in combat environments. I remember in diwanyia during a raid, dropping the ramp and having to my crewman physically push IDF cavemen outa our amtrack.

 

[KM375]

LiveLeak.com - ZU-23-2 AA gun own goal super slow mo
zu-23 in Syria

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

ZSU-23-4 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The only time I ever saw them here was as part of a "display" on a camp or whatever where one had been seized or abandoned. I don't have any personal knowledge of them being utilized, although I don't suppose it's beyond possibility that a few may have used sporadically during the early days of the conflict.

Way back when I went through the Armor I.D. course these were highly regarded as things you didn't want to have shooting at you, as well as their big brothers the ZSU-57-2. They were seen as a threat to light/medium-skinned vehicles. Fortunately I never found out.

The biggest machine guns I ever had any personal dealings with were the DShK's, which are the soviet version of our M2 .50 cal. Although, these things would drown-out the noise of our .50's when both were shooting. You can thank our "allies" the Pakistanis as well as our buddies the Chinese for sending brand new ones into the fight so that the insurgents weren't forced to use old USSR leave-behinds.

DShK - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm sorry I don't have any first-hand knowledge of the 23-4, all I knew about it was that is was widely accepted as something you didn't want to be on the receiving end of. I adopted that view of pretty much EVERY weapon if I had the choice.

LOL that video is priceless KM. EasyGravy is right you cant fix stupid.

Bogey, did you ever get to shoot the DShK? I know the 12.7x108 has a little more case capacity than the .50 BMG; probably 350gr versus 290gr or so for the BMG. Would you say the Com-bloc 12.7mm ammo was any more or less accurate/consistent than the .50 BMG ammo?

Im guessing the jihadis would mostly rather have the 14.5s and 23mm autocannons in Syria rather than risk them being taken out by an airstrike anywhere American forces are.

 

[bogeybrown]

My impression of it was the same as with most of the Com-bloc stuff: it was made to work, and it was designed to be mass-produced whether that be the weapons or the ammo. With the exception of 2 different "snipers" who would routinely shoot at us, I never saw any of the local nationals even attempt accuracy whether they be ANSF or insurgents.

With the ANSF that often worked in our favor, because they thought nothing of shooting a belt of ammo at people that were well outside our ROEs.

The report and muzzle blast was truly impressive though, even if they never hit anything. As I said, we had two 50s going and a bunch of small arms and RPGs and when the DShK opened up I literally stopped what I was doing for a second and was like "WTF is THAT". It may have had something to do with that huge square muzzle brake that our 50s of course don't have, but that bitch got everyone's attention.

 

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

Is lack of accuracy the only reason you can think of why an unsophisticated and largely unmechanized militia with limited artillery and completely lacking in air support wouldn't have any use for a one ton towed anti-aircraft cannon in its fight against a state-of-the-art professional military force with dedicated artillery, drones, and both fixed wing and rotor-winged close air support, all armed with laser-guided precision munitions?

Hint: One of the principal rules of combat is: Don't look conspicuous, it draws fire.

Blowing AAA to hell and back is a CAS pilot's wet dream. And when all your buddies are armed with AKs, you and your ZU-23 are gonna look real damned conspicuous.


IMHO, this thread has no business in the external ballistics forum.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Is lack of accuracy the only reason you can think of why an unsophisticated and largely unmechanized militia with limited artillery and completely lacking in air support wouldn't have any use for a one ton towed anti-aircraft cannon in its fight against a state-of-the-art professional military force with dedicated artillery, drones, and both fixed wing and rotor-winged close air support, all armed with laser-guided precision munitions?

Hint: One of the principal rules of combat is: Don't look conspicuous, it draws fire.

Blowing AAA to hell and back is a CAS pilot's wet dream. And when all your buddies are armed with AKs, you and your ZU-23 are gonna look real damned conspicuous.


IMHO, this thread has no business in the external ballistics forum.

If you know of a better place, be my guest.

I really was wondering more about the performance of the weapon and ammunition itself than anything else.

 

[Beiruty]

Shilka proved to be more deadly anti-air and anti-matter. ZPU-14.5 are nice as x1, X2 or X4.
ZPU - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
ZSU-23-4 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia