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I should have listened....

PBWalsh

PBWalsh

Preston Walsh Fitness
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 10, 2017
2,524
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Central AL
Should have listened to the woes of using a DIP 25 moa rail for the CZ455. Few weeks ago I thought my scope had lost zero and wasn’t tracking properly. Blamed the optic, foolishly I might add. Week ago I noticed my DIP rail was slid approximately .75” forward on the action and was missing at least one screw! Frustrating as I installed it per DIP’s instructions and used the recommended loc-tite.

So now I have a random DIP rail and am going to buy the Area 419 rail that I should have bought to begin with. Would’ve saved $40 buying the Area 419 rail first. Hopefully I’ll have better luck with it.

Buy once cry once applies so very well in this industry.

Anyone want a DIP rail for cheap, lol?
 
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Looked at the 419, very nice, lots of bells and whistles but I wanted as little stack-up height as possible so I went with another DIP. None of mine have ever moved.
 
I have a Area419 on my 455 and it is very solid, no movement at all.
 
accurate obsession said:
Looked at the 419, very nice, lots of bells and whistles but I wanted as little stack-up height as possible so I went with another DIP. None of mine have ever moved.
Click to expand...

This is the reason I went with the dip rail instead of anything else. Was out of loc-tite so used some vc-3 on the threads. Haven't had any issues yet and hope I don't.
 
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Just a little FYI for someone who may not know. You need to clean the parts that you wish to loctite. There will usually be oil on steel screws from black oxide process after manufacturing. Especially on something like the DIP rails with those tiny screws and perhaps only 3 or 4 threads engaged, there is no room for error. So break out the contact cleaner or acetone and make sure all are clean and dry.
 
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FYI: Many 22lr actions use a 11mm dove tail machined into the top of their actions (Sako, Anshutz and CZ in believe), Accuracy International dovetail scope mounts fit just fine. They can be had for 30mm and 34mm scope tubes. Additionally they are available with zero or an number of canted MOA built into the ring mount. If you look around you can find them at a affordable price.
 
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Maybe I'm prissy, I don't like grub screws holding a rail to my gun. I went with EGW heavy duty instead of the DIP. I like it. No movement. A bit high, but works fine for my needs. I really like the level in the 419 though. Has this been around a long time? When I was in the market for one, I didn't run across it.
 
I had a DIP and sold it and bought the 419 and it is tight going on and won’t move now that it’s torqued on...I wanted it because I bought a Sightron SIII 10-50x60 and with medium Vortex Precision Rings it just the right height.
 
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Just ordered the Area 419 rail and a new SWFA 10x42, hope to get then both in by this coming Saturday and shoot a bit on Sunday.

For those that use the Area 419 rail, what did y’all torque it at?
 
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EddieE said:
Maybe I'm prissy, I don't like grub screws holding a rail to my gun. I went with EGW heavy duty instead of the DIP. I like it. No movement. A bit high, but works fine for my needs. I really like the level in the 419 though. Has this been around a long time? When I was in the market for one, I didn't run across it.
Click to expand...

It came out late last year IIRC. I like the idea of the level, but in reality, I can't really see it under my Vortex Viper when I'm behind the rifle. The mount itself is extremely nice, though. In the photo you can see how it is tucked up under the optic, but not really usable... granted, that is a pretty big optic in low rings.


IMG_4128.jpeg
 
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Don't forget Murphy Precision if you don't like the 419 but want something more robust than the DIP

They will also do custom inclination on the rail (for a fee of course, and based off how many you order at that set up)
 
Ordered the Area 419 rail on Friday morning and received it on Monday. That's pretty damned good! It is a nicely made piece for sure. Going to Duracoat my barrel (Lilja) and action before putting the whole package together.
 
What if you just used regular RINGS on the RAIL on the gun?!

:eek:
 
natdscott said:
What if you just used regular RINGS on the RAIL on the gun?!

:eek:
Click to expand...

How would you get your MOA cant if you want to shoot out a little farther without holding over?

For a simpler set up where a cant isn't necessary, that would definetely be a cleaner look and fewer pieces to come loose. I still like using standard rings, though, so I can switch them around later when I want to change set ups from rifle to rifle.
 
I had the 419 and really liked that it seemed well built. I didn’t have the DIP before, but was happy my 455 already had the 419 when I bought it so I didn’t have to choose to pay up for it.
 
R.Markus said:
How would you get your MOA cant if you want to shoot out a little farther without holding over?

For a simpler set up where a cant isn't necessary, that would definetely be a cleaner look and fewer pieces to come loose. I still like using standard rings, though, so I can switch them around later when I want to change set ups from rifle to rifle.
Click to expand...

I don't. I bed the scopes into Kelbly rings, and use scopes with enough elevation to get where I want that rifle to go.
 
Got the rail and an SS 10x42 scope in today. Rail inspires much more confidence than the DIP rail. Very tight fit to the reciever. Had to spray a bit of WD40 and tap it on with a rubber mallet. Put blue locktite on the four screws and hand tightened them down (didn’t have an appropriate size hex bit). Will shoot it and do my sight it the Sunday after Easter, have zero issues thus far.

And yes... I did screw and tape a piece of wood to my sporter stock to try and get a vertical grip. Believe it or not it works extremely good and hasn’t budged. It’ll have to do until I can get a good aftermarket stock (KRG XRay most likely unless they offer a CZ 455 Bravo inlet). And yes, a bad JB weld bolt handle, that works great! Still need an Atlas bipod though... one day.
00F74360-F260-4606-97BE-FF87C6FC9215.jpeg
0F62C82A-630C-4251-9E8F-43723E56ADE9.jpeg
 
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Lonestar1027 said:
Takes the term "Custom Rifle" to a whole new level
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Is there some reason you ... feel the need to be snarky ...?

I don't disagree that there are some things with the stock setup above that are done very poorly, distance to the trigger being one (PBWalsh: just learn to shoot it the way it came...with the grip, you're doing more harm than good), but your [reply] adds NOTHING to the discussion more than a bully on a playground would.

If you've never been out shot by somebody running what appears to be beaten up equipment, I wish you the very best of a quiet interstate drive home after the first competition when ya do. If your work ethic looks like your internet egos, the beating is just around the bend.

-Nate
 
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Would have to say I agree with nate

Ive had my ass handed to me by someone with a rifle that looked ALOT like the one above. Devcon built up grip angle, taped on cheek rest, etc

The guy made it comfortable for him and shot it frequently ... and shot it well since he shot it frequently...

I understand making the guns pretty when you can, but he might care more how well he shoots it than how it looks
 
Nate... You completely misunderstood me. That is the hard part about writing instead of verbal communication, as tone is missed. I really did love the thought he put into it. My coworker were sitting here eating lunch and I was showing it off, as this is all we really do need. I really don’t need a $500 stock. That would serve my needs.
I get beat by everyone with a rifle, so I am not trying to come off better than anyone. You don’t see me getting on here and bragging about anything.
All of my comments are positive. You won’t find me bad mouthing people or bringing others down. That is not me and not what I do.
I do apologize to anyone and especially PBWalsh if that is how it came off.
 
To your point Plinkit, I don’t want fancy! I don’t want the attention drawn to an awesome rifle that others with real skill will beat regardless of the rifle. My uncle still shows me up all the time with his 50 year old Remingtons, so I see first hand how the fancy stuff doesn’t always help.
 
Skok3y said:
Nate... You completely misunderstood me. ...
Click to expand...
Roger that. Removed your quote from my previous post.

Internet tone is indeed a problem--always has been--which is why I come across as such a blunt asshole on a keyboard: I try to be extremely literal.
In other words: if I sound like an asshole in some post on one of several forums, I meant to! :)

Final add: I have also been beaten by people with seriously fancy gear, so I don't mean to come across as though fancy gear = poor shooter. Really good shooter + really good gear = a serious problem for competition. Been on both sides of that one...
 
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Agree with Skok3y on this one. I didn't convey my tone correctly. Not meant to be rude, but maybe a bit snarky. It's interesting to see the different rifles on SH: Some cost several months of rent to purchase all the parts and some are a bit more simple, like my best gun- A Savage.
 
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@Stok3y Haha no I took it all in fun! I definitely have a “particular” set of wanted eronomics when it comes to guns and basically have to modify everything to fit me the way I want it (even put grip tape on my Glock 26 to give me more grip on my support hand).

That grip seen above, though it may seem like a short trigger reach, allowed my finger to get a perfect 90* angle on the trigger. That stock worked much better than in the standard CZ sporter stock with a broken wrist angle. I’m 5’8 with a medium to larger frame (210 lbs) = short LOP (12.5-13”) and weird ergonomics compared to a lot of people.

I actually just got a smoking deal from a member here on a KRG Xray for the CZ. That stock is awesome, really looking forward to shooting this weekend with it. Ironically, with the large grip panels, it has roughly the SAME trigger reach as my taped up stock.

Thought the small grip panels would work better (I have medium sized hands), the large grip panells are more ergonomic for me with a same side thumb grip (just like I’d do with an A5/T4 style stock). Highly recommend the stock (or a W3 if I can get KRG to do a 12.5” LOP W3 buttstock) and will be using it for an upcoming centerfire build.
 
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PBWalsh said:
Got the rail and an SS 10x42 scope in today. Rail inspires much more confidence than the DIP rail. Very tight fit to the reciever. Had to spray a bit of WD40 and tap it on with a rubber mallet. Put blue locktite on the four screws and hand tightened them down (didn’t have an appropriate size hex bit). Will shoot it and do my sight it the Sunday after Easter, have zero issues thus far.

And yes... I did screw and tape a piece of wood to my sporter stock to try and get a vertical grip. Believe it or not it works extremely good and hasn’t budged. It’ll have to do until I can get a good aftermarket stock (KRG XRay most likely unless they offer a CZ 455 Bravo inlet). And yes, a bad JB weld bolt handle, that works great! Still need an Atlas bipod though... one day. View attachment 6888924View attachment 6888925
Click to expand...

What's funny is that I didn't even notice it was tape. I thought it was one of those cheek risers people use. I would have to do something similar. I've been so damn spoiled by vertical grips that the other day I was crying about my wrist hurting when shooting my hunter 700 stock. I think the non-vertical is great for hunting, but for me, prone or bench, it is uncomfortable as hell.

If I were you, I'd hold out for a Bravo when they become available. My buddy has one and damn, for the price it is one hell of a good stock and I love that palm swell.
 
I’m sure the Bravo is sweet, but as I mentioned in a previous post, this Xray fits me wonderfully.

And yeah, I might could use a A1-3/T3 (I actually like the HS stock seen on M24 rifles) style grip, but the traditional thye seen on many hunting rifles with zero palm swell are just uncomfortable. I prefer a vertical grip for all positions.
 
Last pic just as an update. Hopefully it still shoots as good as it did in the factory stock. Forend is flexible, but does not make contact with the sporter contour barrel. Need to eventually get an aluminum rail and buy an Atlas, sometime. For now I’ll just be happy shooting off a bag, barricades, obstacles, and a sling
0E7EFC71-9B40-4122-8C88-DCF511051482.jpeg
 
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sideburn said:
If I were you, I'd hold out for a Bravo when they become available. My buddy has one and damn, for the price it is one hell of a good stock and I love that palm swell.
Click to expand...

Are they actually going to make it for the 455? That may be the stock mine ends up with if they do.
 
PBWalsh said:
Last pic just as an update. Hopefully it still shoots as good as it did in the factory stock. Forend is flexible, but does not make contact with the sporter contour barrel. Need to eventually get an aluminum rail and buy an Atlas, sometime. For now I’ll just be happy shooting off a bag, barricades, obstacles, and a sling View attachment 6890927
Click to expand...

Yep, that looks pretty damn sweet.
 
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So the 419 has a recoil lug. The DIP does not. Does the EGW or Murphy have one?

Other than the recoil lug, I don't really see how the other rails do anything different than the DIP. Is it that their screws are bigger? I have a DIP on one CZ, and was about to buy another one for my kid's scout. Never had an issue with my sample of one, but if something really better exists...

I wish 419 had made the rail less expensive and simply didn't add the bubble. Seems useless to me on many levels, (bad) pun intended. Probably wouldn't save much money, but since it appears useless anyway, might as well save a few bucks.

No question the Vudoo is top of the line, and will prevent these types of discussions, but on a CZ, if you tighten the screws correctly, and loctite them correctly, and check them every great once in a while like you should with all rifle gear, are any of these rails really better or worse? Don't they all basically work on the same principle?
 
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Same principle sure, there is definitely more heft with the Area 419 rail and seems to be of a higher quality. The bubble is kinda useless as I can barely see it under the scope. I employ the bubble as a training aid as I am still relatively new to precision rifles.
 
PBWalsh said:
Same principle sure, there is definitely more heft with the Area 419 rail and seems to be of a higher quality. The bubble is kinda useless as I can barely see it under the scope. I employ the bubble as a training aid as I am still relatively new to precision rifles.
Click to expand...
I get the higher quality (always a good thing), but does the heft help it in some way? I'm trying to figure out if buying a rail that costs 2.5X my current one will work any better at all. I always thought the set screw approach to rail mounting was a poor idea. Mine just happens to work well enough so far. I have a NF 5-25 ATACR that is going on it shortly, and it currently has an F1 on it. Not lightweight scopes, probably like most of you.
 
If you can, BUY THE HIGHER QUALITY OPTION in pretty much everything. My DIP rail worked awesome until the 3rd range session...

Granted I didn’t bed it to the reciever, but DIP doesn’t ask you too either, they recommend just lock-tite on the screws.

Yes it might be 2.5x more expensive, but it would have saved me some headache. 2.5x equals about $60, which is well worth working 2-3 hours of overtime to get. We are not talking the difference between a $1000 Vortex PST vs. a $2500 NF ATACR, we’re talking $60.
 
I agree with buying higher quality. I just don't know that the 419 is higher function, given that it works in the same manner.

You mentioned that you hand tightened the screws on the 419 because you didn't have the right tool. Yet you loc tited them. You may need to re loc tite them when and if you torque them down correctly. Did you torque the DIP down properly? Loctite properly? Check it after the initial shooting session?
 
SLG said:
I agree with buying higher quality. I just don't know that the 419 is higher function, given that it works in the same manner.
Click to expand...

The Area 419 and DIP rails do not work in the same manner. The DIP uses set screws that run downward through the rail and apply tension to the receiver to hold the rail on. The Area 419 (and the EGW) use screws to pinch itself onto the rail similar to how scope rings are mounted.
 
R.Markus said:
The Area 419 and DIP rails do not work in the same manner. The DIP uses set screws that run downward through the rail and apply tension to the receiver to hold the rail on. The Area 419 (and the EGW) use screws to pinch itself onto the rail similar to how scope rings are mounted.
Click to expand...

That's very helpful, thanks very much! Looks like I'm going to try a 419 rail then...
 
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