Francis picked him and placed him to vet/select Bishops. He's more or less a centrist but with progressive views so the worst of both worlds.
Pope Death Watch... WITH A PRIZE!!! Quart of Maple Syrup to the winner!
- Thread starter sirhrmechanic
- Start date
Francis picked him and placed him to vet/select Bishops. He's more or less a centrist but with progressive views so the worst of both worlds.
5th.
Francis did select him for some things Don't know if he's as close to Francis' mantra, but we'll see.
Well, the new pope is at least American born. Not that I care about Catholicism, but hey it's news at least. Christ is King!
Obedience! Not works. God does the work Through the NAME of Jesus and HE does the work not YOU! You can not be saved by works but you can be saved by obeying! Acts 2:38 is the key and again this is a promise to you and your kids and so on.
The Catholic Church was created from Pagan religions . No the FATHER SON AND SPIRIT are NOT 3 seperate beings in the form of man. No mother mary or hail mary for that matter... The Council of Nicaea is where Baptism was changed and the Deity in 3 seprate beings which the bible does not support.I disagree. Jesus taught to respect hierarchy as it is God's will to appoint leaders and kings over you (also his will to overthrow and end them). Who he despised were any who claimed righteousness or holiness, and used that falseness to claim power.
Paul has quite a bit to say about Christians criticizing other Christians and judging their practices and/or their souls. All Catholic Dogma is rooted in the Bible. It's just that huge parts of it have been erected over time by the church based on small phrases that are mis/over interpreted, IMHO. Most of the Catholic practices that we/I don't believe in are there for the purpose of focusing the congregant on Jesus. There is also a good reason that many Christians avoid these wrote practices, because they can become so routine that instead of focusing on Jesus the ritual itself becomes the point. They are a double edged sword, but the longevity of the Catholic Church would suggest that they are effective if not strictly biblical. The funniest one is the whole fish on Friday thing, because Paul actually uses that as an example of how Christians are specifically not to criticize each other's differing practices. So while I am not a Catholic I have deep respect for their church, and the faith in Jesus of Catholics. Yea, they do a lot of things I don't agree with, but saying they are not Christians is simply ignorance of what it means to be a Christian, and you could just as easily cast the same stones at half the people sitting in the pews in your own church... so just don't. You are commanded not to by Jesus Christ.
Catholics are fully Christian. Anyone who says they aren't is the real blasphemer.
This guy was pretty smart and knew the Bible. Don't listen to me, listen to him:
Billy Graham: 3 Warning Signs That a Church Is Actually a Cult
There are three important questions to consider when determining whether or not a church is actually a cult, according to the Rev Billy Grahamwww.christianpost.com
1 God Father of all in you all.
Jesus said the Father was in him and he in the Father. He also said I and the Father are 1. Ephesians says 1 body and 1 spirit ( which makes a corporal being). Catholicism wasnt around during the new testament or old testament.... Fabrication of Deity...
Catholics are fully Christian. Anyone who says they aren't is the real blasphemer. Who is the Father the Father of? The Holy Ghost overshadowed Mary and she conceived ( that makes the Holy Ghost the Father) So who ius the Father the Father of? Ill wait.
Pm if you would like.
Wut? That's simply not true. Jesus referred to God as his or The "father", and to himself as the Son; see the "I AM" statements (liar, lunatic, or Lord). I don't understand what you are trying to get at.
What Catholics believe is virtually identical to what protestants believe.
If they didn't I agree it would be a big problem. Who told you they don't believe in the Trinity?
You need to get out your bible and read what Paul has to say to some Romans about differences on all the bullshit vs the big things.
We'll have the discussion public so maybe other people can learn something. Not that I'm some great theologian, but I've lived with Catholics my whole life. You can't swing a dead cat where I live and not hit one.
What Catholics believe is virtually identical to what protestants believe.
The Trinity: A Catholic Explanation of Father, Son and Holy Spirit
The Trinity is a central Dogma in the Catholic faith. Here is an explanation of how the Catholic Church understands the Trinity in an easy to understand way
www.aboutcatholics.com
If they didn't I agree it would be a big problem. Who told you they don't believe in the Trinity?
You need to get out your bible and read what Paul has to say to some Romans about differences on all the bullshit vs the big things.
We'll have the discussion public so maybe other people can learn something. Not that I'm some great theologian, but I've lived with Catholics my whole life. You can't swing a dead cat where I live and not hit one.
The Trinity never existed before the council of nicaea. The Trinity does not exist. There is only one God his name is Jesus.Wut? That's simply not true. Jesus referred to God as his or The "father", and to himself as the Son; see the "I AM" statements (liar, lunatic, or Lord). I don't understand what you are trying to get at.
What Catholics believe is virtually identical to what protestants believe.
The Trinity: A Catholic Explanation of Father, Son and Holy Spirit
The Trinity is a central Dogma in the Catholic faith. Here is an explanation of how the Catholic Church understands the Trinity in an easy to understand waywww.aboutcatholics.com
If they didn't I agree it would be a big problem. Who told you they don't believe in the Trinity?
You need to get out your bible and read what Paul has to say to some Romans about differences on all the bullshit vs the big things.
We'll have the discussion public so maybe other people can learn something. Not that I'm some great theologian, but I've lived with Catholics my whole life. You can't swing a dead cat where I live and not hit one.
Plz explain again to me who the trinity exists in the Bible. The word is not in the Bible and there is the SPIRIT of the Old Testament and a body in the New Testament . Very simple.. since we are made in his image GODS? How could we be made in the image of God? God is a spirit. So when that baby was born of the HolyGhost (Father). Is. Is tranferred by the blood of the male (Adam). The babies blood comes from the Dad and Adam’s sin was passed down.
Eph 4:4-6 one body (like you with flesh and spirit).
2 Corinth 5:19 God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself.. hmm God the spirit was in Christ?
Who the hell was Jesus praying to and talking to? Saying Jesus is God, but there was no God in Heaven when he was on earth, and not believing that the holy spirit that is also part of makes you what?
For me “The Trinity” is a way to explain something in a not wrong way, but certainly not a complete understanding by any stretch. But it doesn’t have to make perfect scientific sense, because a lot of it doesn’t.
Since you know more than any Christian theologians (these aren’t my original ideas, ha) explain to me how God is outside of time? When you can explain that I’ll explain precisely how God can be in more than one place and be perceived by us as more than one being.
I suspect that you think this is clever, and only you are a true Christian because you only consider Jesus God, but to me it’s a distinction without a difference, and it isn’t supported, because sometimes two things that would seem to conflict can both be true, and that’s one of the keys to glimpsing part of the answer to some of these mysteries.
But, I’m glad you think anyone who believes in or thinks about it in terms of a Trinity isn’t a Christian, because that only puts you in the cult. Not the largest and oldest sect of Christians.
Adam’s sin IS consciousness, or self awareness if you will. The fruit in the garden was on "The Tree of Knowledge". It’s our understanding of good and evil, like God understood it, not some physical pathogen in blood. Satan even tells Eve that she can be like God if she eats! Our original sin is our loss of innocence and the ability to choose evil over good when we (even innately) know the difference.
You need to go to Bible Study.
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Also Remember that All are sinners and no one is good. Paul said when he would do good evil is present. in the old testament the tabernacle plan was the plan of salvation... so please explain the tabernacle if you would and what each item represented and that the world was separated from god by the veil .... The vail was rent and broken (like his flesh) and the Holiest of holies was done away with. If you start with the Sacrifice and the washing of the sacrifice then you will have a good start on salvation..
Cult lol.. Speaking from experience or Out your backside? lol
Jesus was showing us how to Pray. Our Father which is in heaven and so on. What does the first scriptures say.. God Created the Earth and Heavens after the Council of his own will.
So when Jesus said he was hungry? Tired? The Flesh talking not the spirit as the spirit doesnt get tired. The flesh (body of the new testament). Spirit of the old. The Old testament was a school master to bring us to Christ.
In the Beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the Word was God. The word is the Spirit of God.
So please explain where are all the parts ? Father Son and Holy Ghost... We can start with the Titles of God.. No Name is given in the old Testament and the name was whispered to the high priest before the old on passed....
So please Show me in the bible where the Trinity exist? When it says there is one body and one spirit... Are you saying its different than what the bible says? One body and one spirit.
So we can start with the basics. Who is The Father the father of what?
How do you reconcile that God was manifest in the flesh and justified in the spirit seen of angels and preached unto the gentiles... So where was God manifested in the Spirit? How was God in Christ reconciling the world unto himself. How was God in Christ? (the Spirit). Simple
I understand that there's nuances and reasons why people are otherwise 'excited' having the 1st Cardinal elected Pope from the US but... idk- guess the responsible answer is to give it time and see if it's of any value to what I'm interested in personally over time.
I'm just a bit surprised that the new Pope was selected as quickly as he was (more so than him being from the US).
-LD
I'm just a bit surprised that the new Pope was selected as quickly as he was (more so than him being from the US).
-LD
The word trinity isn’t in the Bible, because it is just a word that means a way of thinking about the God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, who are all in the Bible as distinct, yet ARE one. Apprarently you can’t hold two seemingly contradictory things in your mind that are both true, meaning you will never progress in wisdom past where you are.
Just as you think the name of God is some secret only your cult knows, making you the only true Christians.
Paul has a lot to say about people like you. Jehovah’s witness is exactly where you belong.
Just as you think the name of God is some secret only your cult knows, making you the only true Christians.
Paul has a lot to say about people like you. Jehovah’s witness is exactly where you belong.
What is the Westminster Confession of Faith?
To determine if your beliefs are actually biblical, and that you are indeed a "Christian" i.e. believer in Christ, believer in the Bible without adding or subtracting anything, and follower of His Church, they came up with this in the 15th century. It is an excellent distillation of Biblical truth, and remains an excellent yard stick by which to measure your understanding of the Bible and your own faith. Coming up with your own theology, after it's been studied for more than a thousand years, is no better idea than inventing your own moral code. It simply has the worst possible track record of any idea man ever had. The WMCF certainly doesn't answer any mysteries or solve any disagreements about minutia among the sects of Christianity, but it does put forth those basic beliefs, that are very clear in the Bible, that all versions of the Christian faith have in common. There are and always have been non-Christian cults that use the Bible and the name of Jesus to justify their teaching, and the WMCF is a good place to start to identify them, because all of them mix apostacy with the truth to mislead you.
The Trinity is a doctrine, or a way of thinking about the Bible. The idea of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is fraught with mystery. It's just a way of thinking about the concepts the bible puts forth as truth, while organizing them in a simple and easy way to understand, what we are not capable of understanding in this reality, that is "not wrong".
Short Version of the Catechism
It is very safe to say that if you don't agree with these central tenants you are not a "Christian". You may be something close to one, or approximating one, but you clearly don't understand or believe in the words written in the Bible. The Catholics believe stuff that I don't believe, but it is because they have chosen to consider some verse of the Bible literally rather than figuratively, and probably vice versa. On the big things "we" all agree. Were my understating to change slightly I could easily become a Catholic. As it is I'm very comfortable with the small amount of wisdom I've been graced with, and consider them my brothers in Christ, as they consider me. Same thing for almost every main line or evangelical church.
Sometimes people think The Bible is an engineering manual or a wiring diagram. To read it that way is to almost automatically misunderstand and misinterpret it. It's not an engineering manual. It is full of deeper meaning but written simply so any goat herder can understand the basics. I like to say that in the deeper mysteries, like explaining how a being can be in three places at once, or outside of time, the words the Bible uses are not wrong, but certainly don't try to explain it using quantum physics or string theory. These are mysteries, and intentionally so. Shallow enough so that you won't drown, and deep enough so that you can never find the bottom. It's a symphony, and you have to teach yourself to read music to understand it. We have to have faith that after this reality is over for us, and we're no longer confined to The Fourth Dimension, we will understand completely. The choice is to be in the presence of God, or to be separated from Him.
To determine if your beliefs are actually biblical, and that you are indeed a "Christian" i.e. believer in Christ, believer in the Bible without adding or subtracting anything, and follower of His Church, they came up with this in the 15th century. It is an excellent distillation of Biblical truth, and remains an excellent yard stick by which to measure your understanding of the Bible and your own faith. Coming up with your own theology, after it's been studied for more than a thousand years, is no better idea than inventing your own moral code. It simply has the worst possible track record of any idea man ever had. The WMCF certainly doesn't answer any mysteries or solve any disagreements about minutia among the sects of Christianity, but it does put forth those basic beliefs, that are very clear in the Bible, that all versions of the Christian faith have in common. There are and always have been non-Christian cults that use the Bible and the name of Jesus to justify their teaching, and the WMCF is a good place to start to identify them, because all of them mix apostacy with the truth to mislead you.
The Trinity is a doctrine, or a way of thinking about the Bible. The idea of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is fraught with mystery. It's just a way of thinking about the concepts the bible puts forth as truth, while organizing them in a simple and easy way to understand, what we are not capable of understanding in this reality, that is "not wrong".
Short Version of the Catechism
It is very safe to say that if you don't agree with these central tenants you are not a "Christian". You may be something close to one, or approximating one, but you clearly don't understand or believe in the words written in the Bible. The Catholics believe stuff that I don't believe, but it is because they have chosen to consider some verse of the Bible literally rather than figuratively, and probably vice versa. On the big things "we" all agree. Were my understating to change slightly I could easily become a Catholic. As it is I'm very comfortable with the small amount of wisdom I've been graced with, and consider them my brothers in Christ, as they consider me. Same thing for almost every main line or evangelical church.
Sometimes people think The Bible is an engineering manual or a wiring diagram. To read it that way is to almost automatically misunderstand and misinterpret it. It's not an engineering manual. It is full of deeper meaning but written simply so any goat herder can understand the basics. I like to say that in the deeper mysteries, like explaining how a being can be in three places at once, or outside of time, the words the Bible uses are not wrong, but certainly don't try to explain it using quantum physics or string theory. These are mysteries, and intentionally so. Shallow enough so that you won't drown, and deep enough so that you can never find the bottom. It's a symphony, and you have to teach yourself to read music to understand it. We have to have faith that after this reality is over for us, and we're no longer confined to The Fourth Dimension, we will understand completely. The choice is to be in the presence of God, or to be separated from Him.
You seem to believe in the deception
that your salvation hinges on what you believe about the trinity doctrine. You will be proven wrong either in this life or when you stand before the righteous judge. Salvation is given by grace alone, through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone for the glory of God alone.
It would be much better for you if you discover your errors in this life and seek to make corrections. Go to Christ in true meek repentance and He will in no wise turn you away. Or continue in your current direction and be one of those to whom He says "... I never knew you."
I was given a bunch of gifts for my birthday.
I did nothing to deserve them, they were gifts.
I did nothing to accept them or apply them to myself (one of them smells like aftershave).
They sit on the living room floor, unwrapped, untouched.
Do they do anything for me? Are they really mine?
If I don't unwrap them and do something with them, do I really appreciate the gifts?
What do the gift givers think of my lack of appreciation?
Should I expect any more gifts?
I did nothing to deserve them, they were gifts.
I did nothing to accept them or apply them to myself (one of them smells like aftershave).
They sit on the living room floor, unwrapped, untouched.
Do they do anything for me? Are they really mine?
If I don't unwrap them and do something with them, do I really appreciate the gifts?
What do the gift givers think of my lack of appreciation?
Should I expect any more gifts?
You didn’t read anything, and while you’re right about salvation you are a child in your faith, and in my experience it will wither and die if it doesn’t grow with wisdom. None are more blind. Good luck with your own made up theology.
@CaptNkllm, who obviously has The Gift of Proselytization, and cleaves to the passage, "Go forth as an doctor of Christian theology (even though you've barely read the Bible), refusing to look deeper than your own made up theology. Reject any wisdom and knowledge that came before you, replacing it with your own ignorant interpretations and feelings, and claim that you know Christ better than anyone else, so that only you may enter the kingdom of Heaven."
Man, it really bothers me when people who don't know shit bag on Christianity, but it really is about a thousand times worse from someone claiming wisdom and holiness whose mouth is an open grave and drives people away from Christ with bullshit like this idiot.
Maybe there is a hiarchy of sin, because I imagine this asshat pisses Jesus off something fierce!
Man, it really bothers me when people who don't know shit bag on Christianity, but it really is about a thousand times worse from someone claiming wisdom and holiness whose mouth is an open grave and drives people away from Christ with bullshit like this idiot.
Maybe there is a hiarchy of sin, because I imagine this asshat pisses Jesus off something fierce!
You're not clever. Accusing other Christians of being apostates for basic biblical truths and basic theology does not come from God. Mixing apostacy with truth is a trick you did not learn from Jesus. You need to read, and go to a bible study led by someone mature in their faith before you try to correct other people with your own made-up theology and drive people away from Christ. You are not doing the Lord's work AT ALL. You're right. The discussion is over because you're immature, ignorant, and a lost cause. Worse, you are boring. There is no point anymore.
Still waiting for the Answer.. Can you explain it to me? Its a basic belief in Catholicism but no one has answered. Who was the Father OF JESUS?
Now that you say I have accused anyone of something which I am not I am saying the Bible doesnt support your beliefs.
I will call myself the wayward son looking for enlightenment ... Can you help?
I believe God is Jesus in the flesh The Son is God. So lets start with the basics.
Who is the Father? maybe I am confused... Show me were I am flawed in the scriptures.
Dont take anything personal as its just a belief and not sure why what I believe makes anyone upset... America is full of Religion. Right or wrong it is what it is.
1 Timothy 3:16
King James Version
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.Manifest? Seen and preached? Where did God do this?
I could answer that easily, but it's way more fun to see where this discussion is going to go without offering the correct answer to that.
(But I'm sure some folks who are studious probably know what my answer would be).
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Matthew 28:19- go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Which is Matthew recording what Jesus said in Galilee.
This is literally Jesus acknowledging the holy trinity, while speaking to the disciples in Galilee.
Council of Nicaea was about 300 years after this.
Just as a note, if you want to wade into this conversation, you best first make sure you have a clear picture of where you stand in relation to the nature of God / Trinity / Godhead etc. Otherwise you are going to be in for a wild ride as you find out folks have very specific ideas attached to certain terms and you best understand what different folks think about the nature of how various names relate to others.
It's not as simple as one might think at first go.
Not touching this.
One thing is clear. Each day that passes i have less wonder about how the antichrist will convince everyone except a small remnant, that he is messiah, the mahdi, the krishna, the vishnu, the buddha, etc, ad nauseum.
John 1
Let me preface this with the fact I am not a Catholic, but a Bible believing Christian.
He is probably a Oneness Pentecostal or Apostolic. Either way his heresy is modalism and was condemned at Nicaea in 325 and outright rejected at Constantinople in 381. There are several wrong things have been said so here we go:
First, you are appealing to the fallacy of specificity. Yes the word Trinity does not appear in the Bible, but you know what other word doesn’t? Monotheism. Does that mean that the Christian faith isn’t monotheistic? Absolutely not. What it means is we sometimes give categorical names to theological truths we see in scripture.
Next Nicaea was not called to establish the doctrine of the Trinity, as it has its roots in ancient Judaism and the New Testament. Even the patristic fathers spoke of the Trinity. The counsel was called to address heresies that had popped up, mainly Arianism but also this heresy of modalism. The Nicene Creed was produced to officially codify into writing the long held belief of the Trinity. Ask yourself why would non-trinitarian heresies exist prior to Nicaea if the Trinity was invented at Nicaea? The fact is it goes all the way back to Jesus and had its roots in the Jewish understanding of the “Two powers in heaven” doctrine (go read up on that). Example Gen 19:24 “YHWH God rains down fire from YHWH out of heaven”
This leads to the next point you bring up, the name of Jesus. God already was named in the Old Testament and his name is YHWH (I am that I am). Since I am guessing you are a KJV only person too, everywhere in the OT where it says LORD in all capitals, that is because in Hebrew it is the divine name YHWH.
What’s funny is Jesus in Hebrew is actually Yeshua (יֵשׁוּעַ) or sometimes Yehoshua (יְהוֹשֻׁעַ) which literally means YHWH is salvation. So sorry Jesus isn’t somehow the revealed name of God.
Next let’s touch on some trinitarian Bible verses. Aside from the aforementioned great commission verse in Matthew 28:19, here are some more.
2 Corinthians 13:14. This verse includes a blessing that mentions the "grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit," again explicitly mentioning all three persons.
John 1:1-5 This passage describes Jesus as the Word, stating that "the Word was with God, and the Word was God." This verse emphasizes Jesus's divine nature and his co-equality with the Father
John 10:30 Jesus declares, "I and the Father are one," further reinforcing the unity of the Godhead and the divine nature of Jesus
Hebrews 1:1-4 This passage emphasizes the supremacy of Jesus, who is the "bright reflection of God's glory and the exact representation of his being
1 Corinthians 8:6 this says there “one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.” showing the diversity and unique personhood in the Godhead
And the list goes on and on…
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Contemplate this a bit more.
Not suggesting that to be a smug asshole either.
Are you familiar with the term “ Godhead”
One thing to remember is that different people can read the same scriptures and come away with very strong opinions, on saying hey this scripture says plainly xxx while the other person, says how could you possibly think that, the scripture obviously states yyy
Folks forget a lot of what is "settled Christianity" was actually simply "settled" by who had the most swords on their side and it was accept our interpretation or die.
Hence the need to read the scriptures carefully, pray and seek understanding for yourself from Heavenly Father and His son Jesus Christ as to what the truth is.
Here is a story from 200 years ago about a young man who was similarly confused by how so many different folks could read the same scriptures and come up with such vastly different ideas that they were dogmatic about:
"5 Some time in the second year after our removal to Manchester, there was in the place where we lived an unusual excitement on the subject of religion. It commenced with the Methodists, but soon became general among all the sects in that region of country. Indeed, the whole district of country seemed affected by it, and great multitudes united themselves to the different religious parties, which created no small stir and division amongst the people, some crying, “Lo, here!” and others, “Lo, there!” Some were contending for the Methodist faith, some for the Presbyterian, and some for the Baptist.
6 For, notwithstanding the great love which the converts to these different faiths expressed at the time of their conversion, and the great zeal manifested by the respective clergy, who were active in getting up and promoting this extraordinary scene of religious feeling, in order to have everybody converted, as they were pleased to call it, let them join what sect they pleased; yet when the converts began to file off, some to one party and some to another, it was seen that the seemingly good feelings of both the priests and the converts were more pretended than real; for a scene of great confusion and bad feeling ensued—priest contending against priest, and convert against convert; so that all their good feelings one for another, if they ever had any, were entirely lost in a strife of words and a contest about opinions.
7 I was at this time in my fifteenth year. My father’s family was proselyted to the Presbyterian faith, and four of them joined that church, namely, my mother, Lucy; my brothers Hyrum and Samuel Harrison; and my sister Sophronia.
8 During this time of great excitement my mind was called up to serious reflection and great uneasiness; but though my feelings were deep and often poignant, still I kept myself aloof from all these parties, though I attended their several meetings as often as occasion would permit. In process of time my mind became somewhat partial to the Methodist sect, and I felt some desire to be united with them; but so great were the confusion and strife among the different denominations, that it was impossible for a person young as I was, and so unacquainted with men and things, to come to any certain conclusion who was right and who was wrong.
9 My mind at times was greatly excited, the cry and tumult were so great and incessant. The Presbyterians were most decided against the Baptists and Methodists, and used all the powers of both reason and sophistry to prove their errors, or, at least, to make the people think they were in error. On the other hand, the Baptists and Methodists in their turn were equally zealous in endeavoring to establish their own tenets and disprove all others.
10 In the midst of this war of words and tumult of opinions, I often said to myself: What is to be done? Who of all these parties are right; or, are they all wrong together? If any one of them be right, which is it, and how shall I know it?
11 While I was laboring under the extreme difficulties caused by the contests of these parties of religionists, I was one day reading the Epistle of James, first chapter and fifth verse, which reads: If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
12 Never did any passage of scripture come with more power to the heart of man than this did at this time to mine. It seemed to enter with great force into every feeling of my heart. I reflected on it again and again, knowing that if any person needed wisdom from God, I did; for how to act I did not know, and unless I could get more wisdom than I then had, I would never know; for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible.
13 At length I came to the conclusion that I must either remain in darkness and confusion, or else I must do as James directs, that is, ask of God. I at length came to the determination to “ask of God,” concluding that if he gave wisdom to them that lacked wisdom, and would give liberally, and not upbraid, I might venture."
Folks forget a lot of what is "settled Christianity" was actually simply "settled" by who had the most swords on their side and it was accept our interpretation or die.
Hence the need to read the scriptures carefully, pray and seek understanding for yourself from Heavenly Father and His son Jesus Christ as to what the truth is.
Here is a story from 200 years ago about a young man who was similarly confused by how so many different folks could read the same scriptures and come up with such vastly different ideas that they were dogmatic about:
"5 Some time in the second year after our removal to Manchester, there was in the place where we lived an unusual excitement on the subject of religion. It commenced with the Methodists, but soon became general among all the sects in that region of country. Indeed, the whole district of country seemed affected by it, and great multitudes united themselves to the different religious parties, which created no small stir and division amongst the people, some crying, “Lo, here!” and others, “Lo, there!” Some were contending for the Methodist faith, some for the Presbyterian, and some for the Baptist.
6 For, notwithstanding the great love which the converts to these different faiths expressed at the time of their conversion, and the great zeal manifested by the respective clergy, who were active in getting up and promoting this extraordinary scene of religious feeling, in order to have everybody converted, as they were pleased to call it, let them join what sect they pleased; yet when the converts began to file off, some to one party and some to another, it was seen that the seemingly good feelings of both the priests and the converts were more pretended than real; for a scene of great confusion and bad feeling ensued—priest contending against priest, and convert against convert; so that all their good feelings one for another, if they ever had any, were entirely lost in a strife of words and a contest about opinions.
7 I was at this time in my fifteenth year. My father’s family was proselyted to the Presbyterian faith, and four of them joined that church, namely, my mother, Lucy; my brothers Hyrum and Samuel Harrison; and my sister Sophronia.
8 During this time of great excitement my mind was called up to serious reflection and great uneasiness; but though my feelings were deep and often poignant, still I kept myself aloof from all these parties, though I attended their several meetings as often as occasion would permit. In process of time my mind became somewhat partial to the Methodist sect, and I felt some desire to be united with them; but so great were the confusion and strife among the different denominations, that it was impossible for a person young as I was, and so unacquainted with men and things, to come to any certain conclusion who was right and who was wrong.
9 My mind at times was greatly excited, the cry and tumult were so great and incessant. The Presbyterians were most decided against the Baptists and Methodists, and used all the powers of both reason and sophistry to prove their errors, or, at least, to make the people think they were in error. On the other hand, the Baptists and Methodists in their turn were equally zealous in endeavoring to establish their own tenets and disprove all others.
10 In the midst of this war of words and tumult of opinions, I often said to myself: What is to be done? Who of all these parties are right; or, are they all wrong together? If any one of them be right, which is it, and how shall I know it?
11 While I was laboring under the extreme difficulties caused by the contests of these parties of religionists, I was one day reading the Epistle of James, first chapter and fifth verse, which reads: If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
12 Never did any passage of scripture come with more power to the heart of man than this did at this time to mine. It seemed to enter with great force into every feeling of my heart. I reflected on it again and again, knowing that if any person needed wisdom from God, I did; for how to act I did not know, and unless I could get more wisdom than I then had, I would never know; for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible.
13 At length I came to the conclusion that I must either remain in darkness and confusion, or else I must do as James directs, that is, ask of God. I at length came to the determination to “ask of God,” concluding that if he gave wisdom to them that lacked wisdom, and would give liberally, and not upbraid, I might venture."
To an extent this is true; however, that does not mean that just because someone comes up with an interpretation makes it valid. In other words, just because someone reads a passage a certain way does not make it equally as valid. What you are getting at is the question of hermeneutics.
Everything in the Bible was written by man inspired by the spirt. As such, this author had an intent for writing and had a message they wished to convey. This is the term authorial intent. Think about it like this: you write a letter with which you intend to give instruction. You then give that letter to 10 people and have them interpret said letter. What you get back is 10 different interpretations. No one would say that each of these interpretations are equally as valid. What you would do is say that some are more correct then others based on how close they came to your authorial intent. This is the same for scripture, the interpretation that is closest to the author’s intent is the most valid.
Now we do have the issue in that we cannot just go and ask the biblical authors their intent like my above example. However, we can better get at the biblical authors intent by understanding context. This includes the immediate literary context, the contemporaneous literary context, the philosophical/epistemological context, and the cultural context/ milieu of the author. This is why scholarship is so important. If someone just goes at interpretation by themselves disconnected from the context of the author, or worse reads in (eisegete) their own bias or ambitions, interpretation goes astray. So an interpretation is only valid in so far as it approximates the authors intent. Having an interpretation for the sake of an interpretation does not make it valid.
This leads to your quotation from Joseph Smith the founder of the Mormon church. He was completely removed from any kind of biblical scholarship. Additionally he carried a post Enlightenment hermeneutic that is not compatible with the ancient text of the scriptures (ever wonder why off the wall denominations like 7th day adventists and oneness Pentecostals, as well as heretical Christian adjacent faiths like Mormonism and Jehova witness pop up around that same time?) Third he had ambition as motivation for his interpretations. Finally, he made claims that very much contradict the historical realities of scripture. For example his whole idea that scripture was corrupted over time was absolutely blown out of the water with the Dead Sea Scrolls. That isn’t even mentioning his created theology that has no grounding in scripture or Judaism; things like god did good works on a different planet as a man and became a god here, or if we do good works we will become gods of our own planets, or things like wisdom are outside of god and pre-existed him. Smith’s interpretations were rooted in polytheism and Gnosticism, and not the Bible or historical faith. With all that being said, Joseph Smith’s interpretations are not as equally valid as the historic faith and the interpretations of the Apostolic fathers (the guys right after the apostles), because Joseph smith was far far away from the biblical context and the author’s intent
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Also gun control seems to be on his list.
Here's what Pope Leo XIV has posted about politics — and the Trump administration — on social media
Hints as to what postures Pope Leo XIV, formerly Cardinal Robert Prevost, might take on some of the most controversial issues roiling the U.S. may come from his recent activity on social media.
www.cbsnews.com
