Ukraine war Bullshit.

[mosin46]

resp re #1848
so the billions spent on containing them (which you have denied) is well worth "trading" with entities that have allowed our (yes neocon is the commonly used and understood term) neocons to profit from in a scheme where we pay for all the gear,personnel and bases to keep them safe
and the money goes to our def co elites and stock holders. add in the payments which find their way into the coffers of congress,our def bureaucracy and yes many of our retired 08s and higher. great deal for the tax payer. we get to spend over there instead of here on people that hate us and that we have bailed out 3Xs in the 20th.
another qualification for being a neocon is getting into these juvenile dick measuring contests with the Russians and now the Chinese. you all keep blathering about the Russians and Chinese are stupid have shitty nucs and missiles and ours are just the cat's meow. great! we can kill 300 or 400 mil of them and they can only kill 100mil of us. Germans killed Russians at about 3 to 1 in ww2. think the Japs killed at about that rate in China from '37 on. how did that work out for them in '45? for sure we don't need to spend any money in Maui,FL,So.Car,LA when we can better use it to defend our friends in Europe and help Z by a few mansions. not saying that we don't need overwhelming deterrence for DEFENSE of America,which i am not sure we have as of Clinto & Obiden et al. another neocon qualification is having no fucking clue what being broke and 30+ tril in debt means. can always jack up the tax slaves for more by making up a new boogey man.
at least 1 thing you are right about is the treason of 90% of congress,quite a few our recent presidents,the universities and many corp elites. and,the infiltration and subversion of our society at multiple levels by the Russians and now the Chinese and ongoing by the Isralis. BTW,despite what you might think,that is old news which has never been,nor will it ever be,addressed. common knowledge for anyone that can read and think for themselves.

 

[LRRPF52]

I’ve never denied billions of aid have been sent. You said trillions.

Most of the value is accounted for weapons we already made in the 1980s and 1990s though, not true high-value current production systems. Any profits made on those demil scheduled munitions was made in the 1980s and 1990s defense budgets.

You want to see MIC profits that are actually current, look at FMS to Japan, Australia, UK, Germany, Finland, Saudi Arabia, and other nations who are at the top of the industrialized nation list with large militaries and regional rivals to justify them.

Ukraine is a weak side-show way down the line in terms of monetary figures, and the Europeans are sending a ton of weapons value to Ukraine, much of it outdated as well, already bought decades ago. The old school F-16As from MSIP partner nations is a perfect example of that. The US hasn’t had any profit potential from those in generations.

 

[theLBC]

Did you listen to Putin’s broadcast and announcement of the SMO? This is a guy who said his forces were simply conducting military drills for 10 days in Feb 2022, before he announced the SMO.

Feb 19, 2022: Putin leads sweeping nuclear exercises as tensions soar

The real conversations within his FSB were that they could rapidly seize Kiev because each city already had 2000 trained civilians who were ready to overthrow Zelensky and fight for Putin. Distances to Kiev from Belorussia were much shorter than 3 days, but waiting for the convoys from

The FSB assessed that Ukrainian factions would then fight among themselves to win favor with Putin.

“Do you want a laugh?”, says the source.

“We were expected to be the arbitrators for crowning Ukrainian politicians who were supposed to start tearing each other apart competing for the right to be called aligned with Russia.”

The source mentioned several times that three days was time timetable given to Putin for the capture of Kyiv.

"'What if it doesn't work?' This question was left unanswered when they planned to take Kiev in three days," said Wind of Change in one reference.

Similarly the source says if Putin's Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu was asked before the war, he would have replied "we will take Kiev in three days", using the Russian spelling for the city.

If you look at the map, and you’re among the Russian General staff, one of the main questions Putin is going to ask is, “How long?"

Based on the average travel speed of armored columns, taking resistance into consideration, 3 days gives you a lot of time to push armored columns from the Belorussian border to Kiev. That distance is only 62 miles/100km.

So even if you only cover 40km/hr, stopping at times for tactical pauses, refueling, resting, passage of forces to keep the front elements fresh, you are easily going to be at least at the perimeter of the city in 3 days.

And guess what? It took them.......3 days to reach the outskirts of Kiev. Those units departed friendly lines on Feb 24, and arrived outside of Kiev on the 27th.

Only problem for them was the columns were stalled due to lack of fuel and food, their armor elements were attrited for sport with Javelins and Soviet-era ATGMs, and their attempt at seizing the air head at Hostomel was repelled.

It was one of the most decisive repels of an invasion in military history, because Russia stacked the deck so heavily in their favor as to give no excuse for such a loss.

you seem like a foreigner (not an american) but you lap up cia/mic talking points and propaganda like an obedient democrap.

/odd

 

[theLBC]

I’ve never denied billions of aid have been sent. You said trillions.

Most of the value is accounted for weapons we already made in the 1980s and 1990s though, not true high-value current production systems. Any profits made on those demil scheduled munitions was made in the 1980s and 1990s defense budgets.

You want to see MIC profits that are actually current, look at FMS to Japan, Australia, UK, Germany, Finland, Saudi Arabia, and other nations who are at the top of the industrialized nation list with large militaries and regional rivals to justify them.

Ukraine is a weak side-show way down the line in terms of monetary figures, and the Europeans are sending a ton of weapons value to Ukraine, much of it outdated as well, already bought decades ago. The old school F-16As from MSIP partner nations is a perfect example of that. The US hasn’t had any profit potential from those in generations.

lol, who gives a fuck if they were old shit or the new shiznit?
we basically paid to fund a war that didn't have to happen, and many many people (mostly christians have died).
why do you support the mass death of christians?

 

[mosin46]

correct meant billions to Ukraine. should have been $20.00. OUR DEBT IS TRILLIONS. but like i said you neocons can get more with inventing a new boogey man. so,fuck America and it's rotting infrastucture,disfunctional schools,legions of homeless and poisoned land. i mean,maybe the VC will threaten to invade again like Johnson said they could in "65. so the money WAS spent and profit WAS made. so,getting them off inventory sending them to Ukraine with (free) transport cost us nothing? the MIC replaced them free? your claim that Europe has sent much to Ukraine is denied many places and make a much better case than you have.. Saudi,Germany,UK,Australia are top industrialized nations with large militaries? are you kidding? Australia has no enemies except likely China. they gonna protect themselves from that? noooo that is another one for us to protect,with BTW,a fair amount of reason to do so. we are stuck with Saudi,despite most terrorists attacking us have been Sunnis being being funded thru them and Qatar. 9/11ers were Saudis not Iraquis. i guess you think that invasion was a good deal for us? look how good the end game was. we can deal with Saudi because we have to being tied up with them with oil. doesn't sound much like you mind spending big $ on Fascist regiemes Australia,UK,Germany and a big YES Ukraine are now are at least as bad in Germany 1940. i have to wonder whether they are worth dealing with at all educate yourself on what is going in those places and the rest of w.Europe. sounds like you believe Putin wants to conquer all of Europe. i just see no evidence that he wants to or really could. he can't possibly be stupid as Obama,Miley,Biden,Bush 2,Clinton,Austin,Graham,Mcconnel,so many,many more. he is corrupt but not even close to Clinton and Obiden.
wonder if you have sons,or daughters even. if so,you gonna be happy to send them off to die or get maimed for the likes of Ukraine or anywhere else in Europe? you war mongers are all happy to get other people's kids killed for the God of showing how great your delusions are. of course you think you will help the deep state attain great military glory with no shedding of Americn blood.
that shit hasn't had a thing to do do with defending America since probably the mid/late 19th century.

 

[dino67]

you seem like a foreigner (not an american) but you lap up cia/mic talking points and propaganda like an obedient democrap.

/odd

You should be able to smell the Finnish Vodka!

 

[dino67]

What is wrong with our recent crop of Military advisors? (at least the ones who are being listened to)

Enemies the USA will roll up in months.

Vietnam X
Afghanistan X
Russia X

A few contributors on this forum wishing they were in that train snorting lines with the depraved, woke, Globalists.

I'm still waiting to hear from the Finn about the Non-Nato countries that would roll up Russia! (I couldn't come up with any and asked him to name them, response as expected was 'I'm not going to tell you, it's up to me to research and find them)

I'm not sure what you call his style of discourse.

 

[mosin46]

you seem like a foreigner (not an american) but you lap up cia/mic talking points and propaganda like an obedient democrap.

/odd

nah,i think he is an American. is typical of those acoytes that worship at the feet of the MIC,deep state and profit from same. the breadth of his info and data,while likely open source,is far too broad reaching for any casual fool on here like most of us to chase down. he is no doubt fed the data which are mostly lies contains large amounts of truth as per normal in this type of propoganda. just a bit too smug and self touching to be real effective. he over does it in the condesention dept and dispensing of his gems of knowledge. much more euridite and seemingly real than 2 or 3 others around lately that are just obviously Ukrainian trolls.

 

[mosin46]

What is wrong with our recent crop of Military advisors? (at least the ones who are being listened to)

Enemies the USA will roll up in months.

Vietnam X
Afghanistan X
Russia X

A few contributors on this forum wishing they were in that train snorting lines with the depraved, woke, Globalists.

I'm still waiting to hear from the Finn about the Non-Nato countries that would roll up Russia! (I couldn't come up with any and asked him to name them, response as expected was 'I'm not going to tell you, it's up to me to research and find them)

I'm not sure what you call his style of discourse.

call it garbled foreign propaganda driven by a few $ to post a bunch of blather just to stir the pot.

 

[theLBC]

nah,i think he is an American. is typical of those acoytes that worship at the feet of the MIC,deep state and profit from same. the breadth of his info and data,while likely open source,is far too broad reaching for any casual fool on here like most of us to chase down. he is no doubt fed the data which are mostly lies contains large amounts of truth as per normal in this type of propoganda. just a bit too smug and self touching to be real effective. he over does it in the condesention dept and dispensing of his gems of knowledge. much more euridite and seemingly real than 2 or 3 others around lately that are just obviously Ukrainian trolls.

maybe he was trained by usaid?

 

[mosin46]

well within the possible. funded by same?

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

2. That wasn't Ukraine national Guard. That was NATO mercs.

3. The only thing that stalled the armored colums was blown bridges and flooded wet lands. The area surrounding Kiev is low lying wet lands. North of the city is a massive reservoir. They blew bridges and opened the spill way, armored columns can't move through flooded wet lands. Thats why Bucha was destroy and about the furthest the west part the Russia advance made it. And they fucked that place up.

Try to toss it to the Russians ran out of gas is fucking retarded.
View attachment 8687450

Kiev's Geography makes it a very hard city to storm. It be akin to trying to take New Orleans through a swamp. Especally when you flood the area with very few Roads in... you ain't getting shit through that.

THAT IS WHAT SAVED KIEV. NOT RUSSIA INCOMPETENT OR TrUmP giving them a couple so Anti tank missiles.

4. Biden N Co are not in Cahoots with Putin. Please stop with that insanity.

Are you really going to counter CIA propaganda with facts?
Remember the saying, "Facts don't matter. We have our truth". That's what we're dealing with here.

 

[GreenGO Juan]

Are you really going to counter CIA propaganda with facts?
Remember the saying, "Facts don't matter. We have our truth". That's what we're dealing with here.

He's got a bit of an Alexander Smirnov vibe about him.

Alexander Smirnov (FBI informant) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[GreenGO Juan]

Speaking of Propaganda. If you are following the news you might see western media making a big deal that Putin did not show up in Istanbul. Well neither did Zelensky, he landed in Ankara, not were the meet was supposed to take place.

More twisting of the facts to suit the narrative.

Its almost like they are trying to shit public opinion of this meeting down the drain before it even happens.

Pretty sad they are this averse to a peace process. The bullshittery is thick on all sides.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

Speaking of Propaganda. If you are following the news you might see western media making a big deal that Putin did not show up in Istanbul. Well neither did Zelensky, he landed in Ankara, not were the meet was supposed to take place.

More twisting of the facts to suit the narrative.

View attachment 8687659

Its almost like they are trying to shit public opinion of this meeting down the drain before it even happens.

Pretty sad they are this averse to a peace process. The bullshittery is thick on all sides.

The Russian boogieman is a great tool to manipulate the masses

 

[kthomas]

Speaking of Propaganda. If you are following the news you might see western media making a big deal that Putin did not show up in Istanbul. Well neither did Zelensky, he landed in Ankara, not were the meet was supposed to take place.

More twisting of the facts to suit the narrative.

View attachment 8687659

Its almost like they are trying to shit public opinion of this meeting down the drain before it even happens.

Pretty sad they are this averse to a peace process. The bullshittery is thick on all sides.

I'm not reading any Russian media, so I'm not sure what they are saying on that side, but our side is surely trying to paint a picture of a lot of barriers to peace, as if it just isn't possible.

Its almost like they don't want peace. Weird.

 

[sloporsche]

I'm not reading any Russian media, so I'm not sure what they are saying on that side, but our side is surely trying to paint a picture of a lot of barriers to peace, as if it just isn't possible.

Its almost like they don't want peace. Weird.

i put the green ese on ignore his expertise is COD in his mommies basement

 

[Threadcutter308]

Speaking of Propaganda. If you are following the news you might see western media making a big deal that Putin did not show up in Istanbul. Well neither did Zelensky, he landed in Ankara, not were the meet was supposed to take place.

More twisting of the facts to suit the narrative.

View attachment 8687659

Its almost like they are trying to shit public opinion of this meeting down the drain before it even happens.

Pretty sad they are this averse to a peace process. The bullshittery is thick on all sides.

zelensky never had any intention of showing up. Vlad knew that and wasn't going to get played by the little weasel. Vlad wasn't going to subject himself to the same bullshit that zelensky pulled at the White House.

I find it mildly interesting that the Trump administration is a lot quiter these days about getting zelensky to the table. I think true to their word, they've finally had it with zelensky's bullshit and have backed away. They just haven't been vocal about it.

I guess zelensky still hasn't figured out that he has very few, if any cards left to play. His "fan" list is shrinking and I think a greater and greater percentage of world leaders are becoming even more fed up with his childish bullshit.

I can't help but think that someone, somewhere is going to whack him. I won't shed a tear. I don't think many other people will either.

 

[GreenGO Juan]

I'm not reading any Russian media, so I'm not sure what they are saying on that side, but our side is surely trying to paint a picture of a lot of barriers to peace, as if it just isn't possible.

Its almost like they don't want peace. Weird.

It is a little weird ain't it.

What I have seen from their media I have watched is basically saying, the people we sent are not low level nobody's but selected as the people they want to deal with this issue. Also that they feel as though Ukraine is jerking them around stalling, or a least that is what I have noticed.

zelensky never had any intention of showing up. Vlad knew that and wasn't going to get played by the little weasel.

I find it mildly interesting that the Trump administration is a lot quiter these days about getting zelensky to the table. I think true to their word, they've finally had it with zelensky's bullshit and have backed away. They just haven't been vocal about it.

All about optics, I don't think I have seen anything legit that supported Putins intentions to go. The man leading the Russia side is the same one who was there in 2022, and according to RU media has the power to handle this.

 

[sloporsche]

zelensky never had any intention of showing up. Vlad knew that and wasn't going to get played by the little weasel. Vlad wasn't going to subject himself to the same bullshit that zelensky pulled at the White House.

I find it mildly interesting that the Trump administration is a lot quiter these days about getting zelensky to the table. I think true to their word, they've finally had it with zelensky's bullshit and have backed away. They just haven't been vocal about it.

I guess zelensky still hasn't figured out that he has very few, if any cards left to play. His "fan" list is shrinking and I think a greater and greater percentage of world leaders are becoming even more fed up with his childish bullshit.

I can't help but think that someone, somewhere is going to whack him. I won't shed a tear. I don't think many other people will either.

To stage a successful coup the group has to have the backing of the US , just wacking him you might get more of the same from his # 2

 

[Threadcutter308]

It is a little weird ain't it.

What I have seen from their media I have watched is basically saying, the people we sent are not low level nobody's but selected as the people they want to deal with this issue. Also that they feel as though Ukraine is jerking them around stalling, or a least that is what I have noticed.


All about optics, I don't think I have seen anything legit that supported Putins intentions to go. The man leading the Russia side is the same one who was there in 2022, and according to RU media has the power to handle this.

Yes, but zelensky felt slighted, being pretty well assured that Putin wasn't going to be there (on this go around). zelensky had his petty little feelings hurt.

It's pretty obvious to me that Vlad has no respect for zelensky. Can't say as I blame him.

Vlad will probably show up for a face to face, once zelensky has adequately capitulated (in Vlad's eyes) to make it worth Vlad bothering with. Once again, can't say as I blame him (Vlad).

zelensky should have taken Trump/Vance's advice about having no more cards left to play and acted/behaved accordingly. Vlad is giving zelensky the opportunity to make peace, or to appear to the whole world as the petulant little child that he is. So far, he/zelensky has done nothing but chosen the latter.

 

[kthomas]

Isn't it pretty common for these negotiations to be made up of teams of delegations that represent their countries, that doesn't include the very top heads of state?

I'm not sure if I understand all the drama around Zelensky or Putin not being there - isn't that normal?

 

[Threadcutter308]

Isn't it pretty common for these negotiations to be made up of teams of delegations that represent their countries, that doesn't include the very top heads of state?

I'm not sure if I understand all the drama around Zelensky or Putin not being there - isn't that normal?

I think that yes, it is fairly common. I think it's more for optics than anything else.

The teams do most of the heavy lifting as far as the negotiations are concerned. Once a peace agreement is committed to paper, then the bigwigs come in for the signing.

Only, zelensky isn't the bigwig that he thinks he is. At least not in Vlad's eyes.

 

[GreenGO Juan]

zelensky should have taken Trump/Vance's advice about having no more cards left to play and acted/behaved accordingly. Vlad is giving zelensky the opportunity to make peace, or to appear to the whole world as the petulant little child that he is. So far, he/zelensky has done nothing but chosen the latter.

His response to that comment was we are not playing cards, as he is not fluent in english, he may still have no idea what Trump/Vance were talking about. Trying to communicate in English is not a wise move on his part. He should use a translator, as he obviously is not fluent in it.

I don't think he was selected to choose the latter.

Regardless of the bull shit around this. The conflict has been basically a stalemate for nearly 3 years and kicked off 11 years ago. For multiple reasons IMO it is far past time to end it.

 

[Darayavaus]

you seem like a foreigner (not an american) but you lap up cia/mic talking points and propaganda like an obedient democrap.

/odd

he's from finland. he used to troll the other threads

 

[Darayavaus]

lol, who gives a fuck if they were old shit or the new shiznit?
we basically paid to fund a war that didn't have to happen, and many many people (mostly christians have died).
why do you support the mass death of christians?

he has a pathological hatred of Russians. After Finland was owned by Sweden, it was owned by Russia. If you think it's bad now, thank God the Russians never made them pick cotton or you'd never hear the end of it.

 

[Darayavaus]

looks like the Russians shot down another F-16. So one S400, one air to air shootdown, and one "unknown causes"

 

[theLBC]

he has a pathological hatred of Russians. After Finland was owned by Sweden, it was owned by Russia. If you think it's bad now, thank God the Russians never made them pick cotton or you'd never hear the end of it.

i don't blame anyone for hating the soviets, but the people fighting in this proxy war are not them.
sympathy ends when the victims of past atrocities work to justify the slaughter of innocent people that had nothing to do with it.

this unreasonable hostility towards "russians" is akin to black people murdering white people and using slavery as justification.

 

[sloporsche]

looks like the Russians shot down another F-16. So one S400, one air to air shootdown, and one "unknown causes"

and our resident beaner thinks A10 's and AC 130'S will lead the ukes to moscow lmao

 

[GreenGO Juan]

Prisoner exchange, fighting continues.

 

[375fan]

His response to that comment was we are not playing cards, as he is not fluent in english, he may still have no idea what Trump/Vance were talking about. Trying to communicate in English is not a wise move on his part. He should use a translator, as he obviously is not fluent in it.

I don't think he was selected to choose the latter.

Regardless of the bull shit around this. The conflict has been basically a stalemate for nearly 3 years and kicked off 11 years ago. For multiple reasons IMO it is far past time to end it.

True, it needs to end. It would/should be easy to end, stop sending money and equipment to Ukraine. However , the neocons and MIC owned politicians will not allow that to happen.

 

[Snuby642]

The F-16's aren't what they were.
When they were built in Fort Worth they were pretty bad ass.

But still a little supprised one got popped.

Who was flying it? Probably has more to do with it than anything else .

 

[SNB]

That wasn't Ukraine national Guard. That was NATO mercs.

There were several operational units of the Martian space fleet there.
Well, the Ukrainians couldn't have knocked out the entire elite of the Muscovite airborne troops with territorial self-defense units, that's not possible .Even with Trump's Javelins, which should have been lying in the west in warehouses near Lviv all the time. According to the conditions under which they were given.
And the target designation was not given by the cadets of the Rivne Military School (whose commander died there, as they say), but by the intergalactic command of the star fleets.

 

[kthomas]

There were several operational units of the Martian space fleet there.
Well, the Ukrainians couldn't have knocked out the entire elite of the Muscovite airborne troops with territorial self-defense units, that's not possible .Even with Trump's Javelins, which should have been lying in the west in warehouses near Lviv all the time. According to the conditions under which they were given.
And the target designation was not given by the cadets of the Rivne Military School (whose commander died there, as they say), but by the intergalactic command of the star fleets.

Space Nazis from Schwarze Sonne and New Swabia teamed up with neo-Nazis in Ukraine (Azov, C/S-14, etc) to stop the communists

 

[SNB]

THAT IS WHAT SAVED KIEV. NOT RUSSIA INCOMPETENT OR

Not even Syrsky, the current chief of the general staff, who then commanded the defense of Kyiv and gave the order to blow up the dam of the Irpin River twice.Then neutralize the enemy in the trap with artillery.
He would not have been able to think of such a thing, because he is Ukrainian and against him stood the elite of the Russians - the second army in the world.
Kyiv was saved by galactic troops, firing pointwise with invisible lasers.

 

[kthomas]

Not even Syrsky, the current chief of the general staff, who then commanded the defense of Kyiv and gave the order to blow up the dam of the Irpin River twice.Then neutralize the enemy in the trap with artillery.
He would not have been able to think of such a thing, because he is Ukrainian and against him stood the elite of the Russians - the second army in the world.
Kyiv was saved by galactic troops, firing pointwise with invisible lasers.

It was space and terrestrial Nazis that teamed up to defeat the communists, you are missing a huge plot line here.

 

[SNB]

The F-16's

Who was flying it?

I already said it.
Martians.

It was space and terrestrial Nazis

That's right. And not just Nazis but very cunning Nazis, so that no one would guess that they were Nazis, they elected a Jew as president in truly independent elections.
There are synagogues operating throughout Ukraine, a Muslim by faith, a Crimean Tatar, the Minister of Defense, was also chosen for cover.
They did not even officially ban the Moscow Patriarchate of the Orthodox Church, for the same purpose.

 

[kthomas]

I already said it.
Martians.

That's right. And not just Nazis but very cunning Nazis, so that no one would guess that they were Nazis, they elected a Jew as president in truly independent elections.
There are synagogues operating throughout Ukraine, a Muslim by faith, a Crimean Tatar, the Minister of Defense, was also chosen for cover.
They did not even officially ban the Moscow Patriarchate of the Orthodox Church, for the same purpose.

You do know that the ultra-nationalists in Ukraine have openly threatened Zelensky's life, right?

 

[SNB]

Good news from Crimea.
"Peacefully sleeping" Russian bombers (c)
unexpectedly attacked by the Ukrainian Armed Forces by Martians with unknown weapons.
It is reported that the military base of the 126th Separate Guards Coastal Defense Brigade and the 8th Separate Artillery Regiment were hit. There is information about the dead servicemen who were on duty at the warehouse.

 

[DirtyHarris]

I already said it.
Martians.

That's right. And not just Nazis but very cunning Nazis, so that no one would guess that they were Nazis, they elected a Jew as president in truly independent elections.
There are synagogues operating throughout Ukraine, a Muslim by faith, a Crimean Tatar, the Minister of Defense, was also chosen for cover.
They did not even officially ban the Moscow Patriarchate of the Orthodox Church, for the same purpose.

The Martian space fleet was featured in a 1992 documentary, I forget the title.
You can Google 1992 Space Movie if you want to know more.

 

[GreenGO Juan]

I already said it.
Martians.

Yeah because Ukraine is known for for its good pilots…