Yeah, no prob. I am sort of a freewheeling guy, I had no goal other to brainstorm and talk, and you’re right about the placement of my little analysis.
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Rifle Scopes March 5-42 Gen 2 PRS Edition
- Thread starter Shayne Ward
- Start date
The way March illuminates reticle requires them to be slightly thicker than the non illuminated variants are which is likely why the sizing is increased in the illuminated versus non-illuminated.
What is re-zeroing like? Does this use set screws on a brass knob inside the turret a-la viper pst/Nightforce/Steiner M, etc?
Will swapping between rifles eventually leave divets?
All I can find is the zero stop and locking features, not how to set zero.
Will swapping between rifles eventually leave divets?
All I can find is the zero stop and locking features, not how to set zero.
The zero is set using set screws like most other scopes on the market. If you don’t misuse the optic you won’t have issue rezeroing it over and over. Torque matters!
Not the same model but I have the 4.5x28 with the LDK reticle. It’s a nice piece of glass, fov is amazing. They ship it with this ring that fits between the sun shade and the scope that does excellent at cutting mirage. I have the shuriken turrets and I’m not in love with the clicks but the visibility and spacing is really good, no guessing if you dialed a tenth over under. I did a tall target test and it was spot on 6 mils up and back down. It fell out of the rack into a cement floor, gave a pretty nasty mark, knocked it of zero. I repeated the tall target test and it tracked perfectly up 6 mils and back to zero. I keep wanting to find something wrong with this scope but it’s really good and the glass is excellent. Not quite as sharp as my zco’s but really good.
The ring to which you refer is called a Modifier Disk (MD). What is does is reduce the size of the aperture (objective) by 50% and thus increases the depth of field viewed through the riflescope. The objective lens diameter is 52MM, and it makes for a handy riflescope. I have one on an AR-10, a rifle which is heavy enough as it is without plunking a heavy riflescope on it.
How do you like the LDK reticle?
I find the clicks on the shuriken turrets to be very positive and extremely accurate. I have the same turrets on my Majesta sitting on top of my match rifle and I really like them. However, I would like to know what you do not like about them.
I have not banged up my scopes like you have, yet, so I'm glad to hear about your torture test experiment. Those 4mm thick tubes can really take some punishment.
OP states this is amazing and great but gives zero context to his experience and familiarity of high end glass. If he's coming from a bushy or Mk5hd I can imagine there could be a lil wow factor. But what about a 7-35 TT, ZCO 5-27, razor gen3 6-36? You can't just say this is the fastest best handling car out there for production road racing, when all you've ever driven are a cavalier and a geo metro.
It would take you about 18 seconds on Google to see his accomplishments and realize he is somebody worth listening to.
It makes a big difference. I really like the LDK, it’s clean .2 mil holds are a must for me. The experiment definitely wasn’t intentional, but I’m clumsy. I’m really glad it held up as well. I will do another one when I get time just to confirm windage adjustments are correct as well. They did a great job with this optic.
Okay so he's an accomplished shooter. But you know how many guys are sponsored by XXX and then cannot comment of brand X VS brand Y due to possible loss of entry fees, gear, whatever. Kinda sucks there's no relevance. It's unfortunate guys can lose their rides due to some positive constructive criticism.
I don’t shoot for any Optics company. My opinion was completely unbiased. That being said it’s an opinion none the less. Believe me I have had plenty of time behind every major player in the games optics. This March checks all of the boxes. I am not asking you to believe everything I said. Get behind one and tell me where I was wrong though
If you have any questions you think I might not want to exactly answer in a public manner feel free to reach out. I’m happy to help anyway I can.
What's so funny about people that can't hit the broad side of a barn and have never shot a PRS match telling a national champion that would give you the shirt off his back that he isn't reputable?
Hilarious isn’t it!! Shayne’s got more time behind a rifle than the vast majority of people and he’s shot literally every reputable brand on the planet it should speak volumes when a national champion takes time to say something is good.
This is some stupid shit to say.
Ive had my run ins with Shayne on this site over the years but he is undisputed one of the BEST shooters in the world right now. Rimfire Golden Bullet and is consistently finishing top 5-10 at centerfire matches including a point back from 1st place last weekend at Coal Canyon. His opinions have MUCH more value than most people here. None of these guys are going to risk points shooting anything they don't think will give them the best chance to win.
You don't have to agree with everything he says but to dismiss him as some sponsored guy (Show us on the doll where the jersey shooter touched you....) is absolute retard level thinking. There are very few highly accomplished shooters on this site who even post in these forums (Most just use EE to sell stuff), and people like you are why.
You aren't the only one moving to March. I was talking to another guy yesterday (top 20 shooter) and he is leaving his long time brand to shoot March. Looks like they are picking up some traction. Sounds like the 5-42 does not have the downfalls of the new Kahles wide angle which has historically been the issue with March (DOF, Tight Eyebox and finicky parallax). I need to get behind one and shoot it side by side with a Tangent and ZCO.I don’t shoot for any Optics company. My opinion was completely unbiased. That being said it’s an opinion none the less. Believe me I have had plenty of time behind every major player in the games optics. This March checks all of the boxes. I am not asking you to believe everything I said. Get behind one and tell me where I was wrong though
If you have any questions you think I might not want to exactly answer in a public manner feel free to reach out. I’m happy to help anyway I can.
There are quite a few folks who have swapped to the March and many more orders are in awaiting arrival. I won’t bad mouth other brands as a March representative but I can tell you go look for yourself I can promise you the first words outta your mouth will go something like this…
Damn the glass is good in this scope…
Man the FOV is great…
I like the reticle it’s very clean and quick…
Oh wow the turrets are really really good on this scope, why are they silver? … writable … damn…
Dang I don’t really touch the parallax from 400-1000 yards…
Oh wow this things 42x…
Ask me how I know… its happened OVER AND OVER already
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It’s really remarkable how well it does this. I have 3 zco’s and owned bunch of atacr’s s&b pm2’s kahles 5-25 mark 5 hd’s and I would say this has the best glass short of the zco’s. I was shooting a small little buffalo target this morning at 545 yards, maybe 4 inches tall and 8 inches long not painted. In the mark 5 it’s just a grey blob the march is crystal clear, fov is nuts. I don’t find the eye box finicky at all at 28x which is top end for my model. I really didn’t think this scope would be as good as it is.
March has very good optical properties and cuts mirage very well, many have indicated it’s leading the the market in cutting mirage. @Denys I’m sure can elaborate extensively on the topic but March has some very very experienced people making sure light path, coatings, lens shape, finishing practices and overall designs are absolutely second to none in optical horsepower.
Everyone’s eyes are different but many folks who own Thetas, ZCO, and the new 540 have all indicated to me in person side by side that the march simply is better glass quality…. That isn’t my opinion being stated it’s actual users who have shot all sorts of optics.
The march is one of the best offerings on the planet for prs use and brings a very strong offering in all the categories.
The guy who won coal canyon, was shooting a leupold, and everyone knows that's a mid level, not so durable scope at best. So your logic is super sound as always. Obviously Ward is a high level shooter, I respect the fact he doesn't take optics sponsors cuz it pisses me off to hear people plug shit that's inferior in moderate to severe degree.
I've never been diddled by a jersey boy to have any ill entention towards them. I guess next time I see one at a match I'll ask for a reach around once he's done with you.
The guy that won is also one of the best in the world... Im mediocre on a good day lmao... Maybe the March is worth some points?? Im not wearing a Jersey anymore though now because of these comments
The jersey comment was 1000% at deathbeforeintellect, yes Morgun is one the best, your performance shows your skills are on par, or at minimum this last weekend they were. Equipment makes mininal gains in hands of top level guys. It's not difficult to best a Mk5hd, I'm sure the March is well ahead in most/all categories.The guy that won is also one of the best in the world... Im mediocre on a good day lmao... Maybe the March is worth some points?? Im not wearing a Jersey anymore though now because of these comments
I shoot F-class exclusively. At 70 years old, that discipline suits me just fine. I shoot a 308 caliber F-TR rifle of my own design. I did make NRA High Master at 1000 yards with it, not with an F-Open gun. Dealing with mirage in high powered optics is a way of life in F-Class, especially in South Texas, where I shoot matches year-round. I have tried many different optics over the decades of competition. As the magnification increased, mirage intensified; that's axiomatic you might say, but there are mitigating factors.
Around 2012, I was using an NF NSX 12-42X56, which was pretty much the standard for F-Class in those days. I would start the day at 42X and as the day wore on and the mirage would come out and play, I would dial back the magnification, all the way to about 25X or so by 11:00AM. The F-class target is a big aiming black with a diameter of 44 inches with concentric rings down to a 5-inch diameter X-ring. In mirage conditions at greater than 30X, the round aiming black would start pulsating like an amoeba on crack and the rings would be invisible, lost in the quagmire of the blob. That was just a fact of life.
Around that time, I got a March-X 5-50X56. I noticed that it was brighter in the early late fall mornings and that helped me. I had set the riflescope at 40X, which was the same as the NSX, and left it there. After a while, it dawned on me that I never changed the magnification, it was always at 40X, every match, all the time, regardless of where I was shooting. Several years later, I sent it back to Japan to get the reticle swapped to the MTR-5, because I was growing older and my eyesight was diminishing. I got it back within a month and at the subsequent match, I was very pleased with the new reticle.
A little while later, I got a March-X 10-60X56 High Master. Where the 5-50X56 had an ED element in the optical formula, the 10-60X56 has 2 big pieces of Super ED glass in the objective bell. As a life-long, avid photographer, I knew about ED and Super ED, and fluorite crystal glass. I realized that DEON was the first riflescope manufacturer to use ED glass in riflescopes and is currently the only one using Super ED glass. This type of glass is used to control dispersion of the wavelengths in optical devices. This is what people refer to as CA (Chromatic Aberration) or color fringing. This allowed DEON to produce high magnification riflescopes with minimum or no detectable CA, without the weight inherent in other designs.
I noticed that I was at 50X all the time with my 10-60X56 HM. I remember vividly several events where the mirage was very intense and everyone else had to dial down to the 20s and I stayed at 50X. Atterbury was one of those places. That really underlined to me that something was helping me with mirage. I formulated a hypothesis and submitted it to DEON. The basis if my hypothesis is the use of ED, and especially Super ED glass in the riflescopes. I discussed this at length on AccurateShooter about 5 years ago. DEON did not believe me at first. But I was insistent, and others started to report the same thing. So, DEON went out and tested this and to their great surprise, discovered than I was not completely out to lunch. They refer to it as shimmer resistance. They even wrote a news article about it and posted it at their site.
I am not going to delve into the details of the hypothesis here, but suffice it to say that the Super ED lenses in the March-X 10-60X56 HM , and the March-FX 5-42X56 HM (the one being discussed on this thread) have greater shimmer resistance than optics with ED or non-ED glass. In F-class, the 10-60X56 HM has long been regarded as the gold standard for high magnification, mirage cutting view. It therefore is no surprise that the 5-42X56 HM would behave the same way as it has the same Super ED glass as the 10-60X56 HM.
Now, before you jump to the conclusion that mirage disappears in such an optic, that is not the way reality operates. Mirage is a disturbance in the air between your riflescope and the target. The IQ (image quality) will decrease because of that. However, the IQ diminishes less rapidly with these two optics. The image will not win any photographic awards, but for an F-class shooter, the rings remain distinct, and we use the rings to hold on target. If we dial down too much, we can't see the rings, and if the mirage (shimmer) hides the rings, we can't use them.
Another effect of the Super ED glass (and pure fluorite crystal spotters, such as Kowa) is that it will detect mirage sooner compared to other glass. I can detect twinges of mirage when other shooters can't see it. It doesn't mess up the target and I can still see the rings, but I also see the ripples of the mirage.
I do not shoot PRS, I tried it once and realized that I was way too old and arthritic to shoot it. I could not even finish the competition that one time. I understand people shoot it at about 20-25X or so, for various reasons. I would think the IQ of the March-FX 5-42X56 HM Gen 2, with its Super ED glass and 26° AOV must be glorious and present a superb, shimmer free image and yet still be able to detect whatever mirage is out there.
Sorry for the long rambling post.
Around 2012, I was using an NF NSX 12-42X56, which was pretty much the standard for F-Class in those days. I would start the day at 42X and as the day wore on and the mirage would come out and play, I would dial back the magnification, all the way to about 25X or so by 11:00AM. The F-class target is a big aiming black with a diameter of 44 inches with concentric rings down to a 5-inch diameter X-ring. In mirage conditions at greater than 30X, the round aiming black would start pulsating like an amoeba on crack and the rings would be invisible, lost in the quagmire of the blob. That was just a fact of life.
Around that time, I got a March-X 5-50X56. I noticed that it was brighter in the early late fall mornings and that helped me. I had set the riflescope at 40X, which was the same as the NSX, and left it there. After a while, it dawned on me that I never changed the magnification, it was always at 40X, every match, all the time, regardless of where I was shooting. Several years later, I sent it back to Japan to get the reticle swapped to the MTR-5, because I was growing older and my eyesight was diminishing. I got it back within a month and at the subsequent match, I was very pleased with the new reticle.
A little while later, I got a March-X 10-60X56 High Master. Where the 5-50X56 had an ED element in the optical formula, the 10-60X56 has 2 big pieces of Super ED glass in the objective bell. As a life-long, avid photographer, I knew about ED and Super ED, and fluorite crystal glass. I realized that DEON was the first riflescope manufacturer to use ED glass in riflescopes and is currently the only one using Super ED glass. This type of glass is used to control dispersion of the wavelengths in optical devices. This is what people refer to as CA (Chromatic Aberration) or color fringing. This allowed DEON to produce high magnification riflescopes with minimum or no detectable CA, without the weight inherent in other designs.
I noticed that I was at 50X all the time with my 10-60X56 HM. I remember vividly several events where the mirage was very intense and everyone else had to dial down to the 20s and I stayed at 50X. Atterbury was one of those places. That really underlined to me that something was helping me with mirage. I formulated a hypothesis and submitted it to DEON. The basis if my hypothesis is the use of ED, and especially Super ED glass in the riflescopes. I discussed this at length on AccurateShooter about 5 years ago. DEON did not believe me at first. But I was insistent, and others started to report the same thing. So, DEON went out and tested this and to their great surprise, discovered than I was not completely out to lunch. They refer to it as shimmer resistance. They even wrote a news article about it and posted it at their site.
I am not going to delve into the details of the hypothesis here, but suffice it to say that the Super ED lenses in the March-X 10-60X56 HM , and the March-FX 5-42X56 HM (the one being discussed on this thread) have greater shimmer resistance than optics with ED or non-ED glass. In F-class, the 10-60X56 HM has long been regarded as the gold standard for high magnification, mirage cutting view. It therefore is no surprise that the 5-42X56 HM would behave the same way as it has the same Super ED glass as the 10-60X56 HM.
Now, before you jump to the conclusion that mirage disappears in such an optic, that is not the way reality operates. Mirage is a disturbance in the air between your riflescope and the target. The IQ (image quality) will decrease because of that. However, the IQ diminishes less rapidly with these two optics. The image will not win any photographic awards, but for an F-class shooter, the rings remain distinct, and we use the rings to hold on target. If we dial down too much, we can't see the rings, and if the mirage (shimmer) hides the rings, we can't use them.
Another effect of the Super ED glass (and pure fluorite crystal spotters, such as Kowa) is that it will detect mirage sooner compared to other glass. I can detect twinges of mirage when other shooters can't see it. It doesn't mess up the target and I can still see the rings, but I also see the ripples of the mirage.
I do not shoot PRS, I tried it once and realized that I was way too old and arthritic to shoot it. I could not even finish the competition that one time. I understand people shoot it at about 20-25X or so, for various reasons. I would think the IQ of the March-FX 5-42X56 HM Gen 2, with its Super ED glass and 26° AOV must be glorious and present a superb, shimmer free image and yet still be able to detect whatever mirage is out there.
Sorry for the long rambling post.
Thanks for that Deny. I wonder if the glass is similar to the floride Ed that Kowa uses, which is known to be among the best money can buy.
I spent a summer at atterbury before going to Iraq and that place is brutal that time of year. Mirage in an ACOG was nasty at 300m so I can only imagine at distance.
I have a new ZCO 840 getting delivered next week but it sounds like I need to snag one of these new March PRS scopes to give a spin. The mirage was horrible last weekend with a zco527.
I spent a summer at atterbury before going to Iraq and that place is brutal that time of year. Mirage in an ACOG was nasty at 300m so I can only imagine at distance.
I have a new ZCO 840 getting delivered next week but it sounds like I need to snag one of these new March PRS scopes to give a spin. The mirage was horrible last weekend with a zco527.
Kowa uses glass that has more floride that most rifle scopes would allow due to being more brittle but it is one the reasons the Kowa lenses in spotting scopes are so good.
No difference in glass between the two ZCO models as far as I know.
Kowa is unique it the spotter world because they grow their own pure fluorite crystal glass (CaF2, one calcium and 2 fluorine atoms.) CaF2 glass is somewhat fragile and subject to environmental conditions (heat and cold). The Super ED glass used by DEON has a lot of fluorite crystal in the formula but is also formulated to resist changes in the environmental conditions. This is explained in detail in news items at the marchscopes.com website. The Super ED glass in the 5-42X56 HM, the 10-60X56 HM, the 4.5-28X52 HM and the Majesta is made with that glass.
The F-Class Nationals at Atterbury were an eye opener in terms of mirage at 1000 yards. My 10-60X56 HM stayed at 50X that morning and I scored a 198-10X, highest X-score for that match, but only good enough for fourth place. Sigh. Only way to do that was with the 10-60X56 HM.
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I will also add that Kowa makes the best spotters if detecting and dealing with mirage is important to you. I tried to explain how much mirage is part of the F-class discipline when your target is 5 inches in diameter at 1000 yards. This past weekend, I shot a 1000-yard match at Bayou with my .308 F-TR rifle. I shot a 199-11X on the first match and that lone 9 was so close to the line, a heartbreaker. Surprisingly enough for this time of year, mirage was not a factor that day, and I missed having it, because the wind was twitchy and the mirage was flaccid, the b*tch. Not having my mirage caused me some problems for the next two matches and the flags were lying, as they always do. Sigh. Before you ask, yes I was at 80X on my Majesta.
how forgiving is the parallax with such a short length? I do love how I rarely need to adjust the parallax on my Gen3 razor during stages with vastly varying distances.
This mirage business is very interesting in that I have several different theories on what helps you see through the mirage and I do not have any sort of a good way to reconcile how it works theoretically. I found some academic materials on interaction between beam propagation and turbulence. Perhaps, it will shed some light.
Of all of the scopes I tested over the years, Tangent Theta and March help you with mirage the most. Yet, in terms of how they are optimized, they are very different from each other. At the moment, I do not know how to reconcile it all together.
ILya
Of all of the scopes I tested over the years, Tangent Theta and March help you with mirage the most. Yet, in terms of how they are optimized, they are very different from each other. At the moment, I do not know how to reconcile it all together.
ILya
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You don’t need to touch parallax from 400-1000 in prs shooting applications once thd optic is setup correctly and the correct parallax is identified. Obviously there’s always an adjustment with distance changes but in the application of prs there is no need with the March to adjust mid stage its usable on a single setting in virtually every stage application distance.
A guy who shoots at my club (and who always has the latest Gucci shit lol) had the March when I was there the other day… Going back and forth between my ZCO527 and his March the glass was neck and neck, IDK if my eyes are good enough to even say which looked better but the March sure didn’t seem like any kind of a step down.
Since I’m fancy enough to afford one but maybe not quite two without getting in trouble (if I were to have to buy a backup), the only thing keeping me away now is the lack of US-based support.
Since I’m fancy enough to afford one but maybe not quite two without getting in trouble (if I were to have to buy a backup), the only thing keeping me away now is the lack of US-based support.
I've had a march 3-24 ffp and one the more recent 4.5-28s. Both good scopes for their applications. One my disappointing findings, is the very soft tube. Both scopes have noticeable indentations in the tubes from the scope rings. One was in ARC mbrace rings, the other in NF ultralite, both torqued to spec.
There are many optics companies that require optics to be sent back to outside of the US, for example kahles and theta go outside of the us for repair work.
March is also working with me to get some optics stateside to use as needed to support shooters who need an optic should they have an issue. Either way the best warranty is the one you don’t have to use and most optics at tier 1 level take weeks to repair regardless of where they end up going for said repair.
I’d hardly call Canada leaving the country. 
I’d hardly call Canada leaving the country.
Lol so true. Big difference between sending a scope to Canada and sending a scope to Austria.
They paid my shipping both ways, too.
6 weeks to look over my tangent. Supposedly nothing was wrong, but erector and parallax assembly was replaced. It holds zero now! I'm happy. Shipping and service was free of charge. I guess that near 6k price tag does come with some benefits.I’d hardly call Canada leaving the country.
Same. It was like a week from house to Armament and back. They paid both ways and that includes time for customs inspections. They set the bar very high for Customer service, and Should for a product that costs what it does. Other than the product, its one of the reasons I recommend a Theta to people. Everything goes down eventualy, is how they handle it that sets companies apart.
I have three Tangent's with the first one being one of the earliest they made. I've done some deeply uncivilized things to them and They've all gone back for service once (one for cleaning, one for an abuse related failure and the other was from an early 7-35x batch that had several scopes with focus cell issues). They took care of shipping and all were turned around promptly.
They asked if I needed a loaner, which I declined, but it was nice of them anyway.
Anything and everything does break if you put enough effort into it.
For all of the rifles that I would want to use in a match or on a hunt, I have backup scopes set up and sighted in, all in repeatable mounts.
ILya
They asked if I needed a loaner, which I declined, but it was nice of them anyway.
Anything and everything does break if you put enough effort into it.
For all of the rifles that I would want to use in a match or on a hunt, I have backup scopes set up and sighted in, all in repeatable mounts.
ILya
I back ordered a 5-42x56 with WBR reticle from Euro, they say 4-8 weeks, we'll see. I'll be comparing it to zco 527, g3 Rzr 636, TT 7-35, ATACR 7-35 and Minoz zp5 as they're the highest level glass I have.
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The March 3-24X42/52 has a 30mm tube, with the walls being 2mm thick. Conversely, all of the X and FX series, including the 5-42X56 HM have 34mm tubes, witth the walls of the main tube being 4mm thick. These scopes are immensely strong.
Yep, exactly my experience as well. Premium products demand premium service; Armament provides that.
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