Agreed. I'm not reaching out. Just hopeful it passes. Demand would skyrocket.
Thunderbeast RR end cap adapter group buy - 338 ultra and magnus
- Thread starter Archimedes
- Start date
If they aren’t able to produce their own adapter or make a suppressor that has changeable end caps I feel like they should just release the predications of the thread pitch and tapers. It would make the whole thing a lot easier
It’s not like they’re releasing any genuinely proprietary information since any machinist can figure it out and it’s just a taper and threads. It would make it a whole lot easier for the end user to make an adapter on a product they aren’t wanting to produce so no revenue loss either.
It’s not like they’re releasing any genuinely proprietary information since any machinist can figure it out and it’s just a taper and threads. It would make it a whole lot easier for the end user to make an adapter on a product they aren’t wanting to produce so no revenue loss either.
No they can’t do that. It would be a legal nightmare for TBAC. It would be seen as complicity if the ATF goes after this product and they are the deep pocket player. Leave them out of this, their legal team has already made their position clear.
I do not have inside information from TBAC so this is my own speculation. I think the advice TBAC received is based partly on a letter ATF published on June 19, 2006, which said “[h]owever, any silencer components parts sold to unlicensed persons must be marked and serialized individually, as all such parts must be registered, identified, and transferred pursuant to NFA requirements.” On November 20, 2023 ATF doubled down on that old position in a discussion about solvent traps by mentioning end caps in the context of a “combination of parts” and “any part intended only for use” in assembling or fabricating a silencer. These quotes are from the letter, but also are in the definition of a silencer in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(25).
Trade groups have asked for clarification that as far as I know has not been given. The PARTS Act was reintroduced this congressional session but so far has gone absolutely nowhere in either the House or Senate (not even a committee hearing). If the act passed it would specifically authorize sale of component parts like end caps by redefining a silencer as the outer tube/primary housing.
I get where TBAC is on this. I would probably protect my business this way, too, until the dust settles on the current regulatory wishy-washy overreach.
Well, this is an important wrinkle in my situation and maybe I should cancel my Magnus RR and my 338 GEN 2RR
I surely don’t want to be holding a $2000 piece of titanium that is outdated six months after I receive it because the big beautiful bill passed and removed silencers from the purview of NFA and now we can mix and match parts as we please
I surely don’t want to be holding a $2000 piece of titanium that is outdated six months after I receive it because the big beautiful bill passed and removed silencers from the purview of NFA and now we can mix and match parts as we please
IMHO, there are a lot of positives for having the TBAC RR cans in hand now.. IF suppressors are removed from the NFA, they will be even more demand for them, making them even harder to obtain. With the removable Brake, there is the potential for TBAC or other, third party replacement end caps in all kinds of configurations. Might even be a robust secondary market for them, especially the HUB RR cans. All speculation on my part,but a few positives to consider.
And in my case our communist state may just outlaw their sale or impose some huge tax on them
That’s a bit melodramatic, what, is the atf going to go after silencerco because they have the HUB threads published? Anyone can get this information with the right tools or paying a machinist a couple hundred bucks. Plenty of these thread pitches and tapers are freely published and are standardized. Publishing specs is under the realm of free speech like 3d printed gun files.
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That’s is true! What was said is that TBAC should enable the creation of an object that their legal team said not to create. If you go out and find the data yourself, TBAC has not facilitated the action.
I still don't see a difference between SiCo publishing the HUB standard and TBAC publishing this thread standard, not that I ever think they would even if their legal team gave them the green light.
The only ones who know the engineering or legal technicalities associated with their designs is TBAC. I suspect there is a reason but I never need to know it. It could be that their lawyers are just more conservative. Again that is their business and they have made their position clear.
I had a local lined up but he has the regular not the RR so still need one in hand for the engineering. Will need to be shipped FFL to FFL.
Ok I now have an RR in my books for cleaning, I have a few thoughts to consider.
My first is to make a flat end cap the same design as the RR break.
The second option is to make a solid end cap that seats somewhere other than the taper that the stock RR break uses. There is a lot of surface in there to use to seat a solid cap that will not effect the stock configuration. Of course making the stock design will require 2 parts and the snap ring and be more time and money (more details to machine). I will start with the solid and see how the comments go, I will also work towards making the 2 piece stock design but I'm thinking the solid will look and work just fine. Then you can swap back and forth and clean while your in there.
With that being said I cant see why a few of you would want an adapter locked in there and not just switch back and forth from the RR to a flat cap??? These things getting dirty so you would want to clean that thing out anyway.
I can certainly make and adapter to accept the dead air cap style but just off hand I dont see getting the adapter to accept the RR break and the dead air in one unit. Plus now your stacking more and more parts to the can. When i get some cad files made ill post up and get some input.
My first is to make a flat end cap the same design as the RR break.
The second option is to make a solid end cap that seats somewhere other than the taper that the stock RR break uses. There is a lot of surface in there to use to seat a solid cap that will not effect the stock configuration. Of course making the stock design will require 2 parts and the snap ring and be more time and money (more details to machine). I will start with the solid and see how the comments go, I will also work towards making the 2 piece stock design but I'm thinking the solid will look and work just fine. Then you can swap back and forth and clean while your in there.
With that being said I cant see why a few of you would want an adapter locked in there and not just switch back and forth from the RR to a flat cap??? These things getting dirty so you would want to clean that thing out anyway.
I can certainly make and adapter to accept the dead air cap style but just off hand I dont see getting the adapter to accept the RR break and the dead air in one unit. Plus now your stacking more and more parts to the can. When i get some cad files made ill post up and get some input.
Personally I like the solid end cap idea. One piece that screws down nice and tight and takes the length of the brake off. That's just me though.
the dead air end caps use a socket to screw and unscrew, the cap can be recessed inside the adapter and it would not interfere with the RR brake at all. It’s a small diameter end cap and the rr brake is very large in diameter. This would allow maximum configuration and if you have an end cap strike you can just switch it out.
For the two piece one, I don’t think that would be required. On the adapter itself, can you not simply replicate the taper surface and the threads in a solid formulation without that snap spring? The adapter should be on there more or less permanently. Those areas don’t need to be cleaned. The female threads on the adapter where the rr brake go will need to be cleaned. This way it can be one solid piece
I have often wondered, why manufacturing companies don't have a threaded extension on the suppressor endcap so you can choose any muzzle device/brake.
Other than it would look odd, but wouldn't it work the same?
Other than it would look odd, but wouldn't it work the same?
No need to overcomplicate this. One piece that screws on the end to turn a RR can back into a regular can. One op in a lathe with a cutoff or 2 if you have a sub you can transfer to. Zero need to have adapters on adapters for an endcap.
Im in same boat as you on this! Now if a separate piece to slide inside and protect the taper is available then that's fine too. Otherwise a flat cap is all I need. I know how to clean things!
Ill draw something up for what Archimedes is looking for as well, visual works much better for me.
I’m in favor of just a cap to take off the break and reduce the length if I want to
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On the left is the top of the can, the red surface is the interface taper for the stock cap, due to this being a screw on I avoided that to avoid galling. Also if you notice the slot needed to clear the this wall that would get smaller and would not be machinable.
There are two options for mating surfaces in green, if the inside green surface is used the cap would be as you see it, if the outside surface in green is used the center cone section can be shortened up a bit giving more of a chamber. The outside green surface would interface with the shoulder on the outside of the can which is covered up by either the RR cap or this Flat one.
The simplest way is the outside shoulder but I believe I could machine either one. Of course there will be slots for the stock wrench.
There are two options for mating surfaces in green, if the inside green surface is used the cap would be as you see it, if the outside surface in green is used the center cone section can be shortened up a bit giving more of a chamber. The outside green surface would interface with the shoulder on the outside of the can which is covered up by either the RR cap or this Flat one.
The simplest way is the outside shoulder but I believe I could machine either one. Of course there will be slots for the stock wrench.
I also want a minimalistic end cap that also matches the taper for the brake
You’re right I haven’t, maybe the taper surface is too close to the internally threaded cap and it just wouldn’t be possible because of the distances.
Yeah that looks pretty good, I would say if you could make one where it interfaces with the taper even partially, that would be preferable but if not possible and there’s adequate friction with the flat surface on the outside to keep the adapter locked in place then that’s ok too.
For the dead air end cap, it’s pretty small diameter wise and not that thick when it comes to the cross section and there’s a good amount of meat left to have a recessed cap so you can switch between calibers and then on the outside you can have the RR thread section for the brake portion.
Tighten down the adapter, use a little rocksett and you can take on or off the brake as you see fit while having a flat cap remaining.
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Its so easy to swap the brake for the flat cap its essentially the same thing. Another consideration is leaving the flat face and adding the brake after it would create another chamber basically which may or may not help or hurt the pressure flow. As well as the stack up, adding another 1.5 inches to the length. The only way to use the taper is with the two piece design.
The flat cap pictured removes 1.5 inches off the length over the brake.
Ill model the two piece using the taper also, and get on an aluminum test part.
honestly, I feel like the shoulder on the outside provided adequate friction if you use a wrench to get it on and with some rocksett it won’t be going anywhere. The taper interface isn’t needed and I’m just over thinking it.
For the second thing, the rr brake you can just remove the end cap and then attach the rr brake. That way there’s no second chamber.
My preference would be for the RR brake to be attachable personally and I’d pay a bit more.
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