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Ukraine war Bullshit.

#4,551
I would be surprised if the Russians go into this thinking that this treaty is going to be anything other than a pause to the conflict, much like 2014. NATO doesn't have the troops or assets to go in the way they want. And I suspect that some of this treaty has to do with Blackrock and others wanting to maintain at least some of the land that they have already put money into as well as any future rebuilding contracts. Ukraine was supposed to win and be the initial implementation base for the WEF/etc government initiatives. That isn't going to be given up if at all possible, even if it is just an abbreviated version.

rachelblevins.substack.com

Lt Col Daniel Davis: Putin in 'NO LOSE' and Trump in 'NO WIN' Situation Ahead of Alaska Summit

Trump and Putin are preparing for their highly anticipated in-person summit, coming up in Alaska on Friday. But will we see them agree to a deal?
rachelblevins.substack.com rachelblevins.substack.com
 
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#4,552
Eostech said:
Nah, Ukraine is still whining about 1991 boarders, including the Crimea. Trump doesn't have much in the way of sticks and I don't think he has enough carrots either.
The longer the war goes, the more favourable terms the Russian find themselves on due to battlefield conditions.
Click to expand...
I think that is accurate.

What I don't get here, is why they(the Ukraine) consider ceding any territory to Russia as a loss, or find it a non starter. The facts on the battle field as you mention are apparent. They were able to repel a full take over, in that regard they are successful. They have the shift west they wanted. Why risk all that they maintained, the 80% they kept, over the 20% they could not hold. They did break free of the hold the Kremlin had on them.

As messed up as this entire thing has been, to me that doesn't seem like the massive loss they play it as. Sounds like they for the most part got what they wanted.

So can we stop destroying every things and start rebuilding things.
 
#4,553
lariat said:
I would be surprised if the Russians go into this thinking that this treaty is going to be anything other than a pause to the conflict, much like 2014. NATO doesn't have the troops or assets to go in the way they want. And I suspect that some of this treaty has to do with Blackrock and others wanting to maintain at least some of the land that they have already put money into as well as any future rebuilding contracts. Ukraine was supposed to win and be the initial implementation base for the WEF/etc government initiatives. That isn't going to be given up if at all possible, even if it is just an abbreviated version.
Click to expand...

I don't think the region has much hope for lasting peace.

Ukraine is always going to be a a hobby horse for NATO, and Russia is always going to perceive that as a threat. Russia also has strong strategic interests in holding on to certain captured areas of Ukraine, which will long be a sticking point between the two countries.

Combine that with a faction of extreme ultra-nationalists in Ukraine that will always be willing to pick up arms on behalf of the West, and it's an ugly powder keg.

I do think that after any peace settlement is reached, that the ultra-nationalists in Ukraine will go "rogue" (sponsored by the west of course) and will continue a dirty war against Russia that more resembles terrorist campaigns.
 
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#4,554
GreenGO Juan said:
I think that is accurate.

What I don't get here, is why they(the Ukraine) consider ceding any territory to Russia as a loss, or find it a non starter. The facts on the battle field as you mention are apparent. They were able to repel a full take over, in that regard they are successful. They have the shift west they wanted. Why risk all that they maintained, the 80% they kept, over the 20% they could not hold. They did break free of the hold the Kremlin had on them.

As messed up as this entire thing has been, to me that doesn't seem like the massive loss they play it as. Sounds like they for the most part got what they wanted.

So can we stop destroying every things and start rebuilding things.
Click to expand...

I think many in Ukraine would consider it a form if victory, except for the ultra-nationalists that are already very outspoken about any prospective peace deal.
 
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#4,556
rmx.news

Western Europe wants war in Ukraine to continue, even without the Americans

A Polish political scientist and journalist, Prof. Adam Wielomski, has taken to social media to claim Western European leaders do not seek a ceasefire in Ukraine at all, while the U.S. and Russia have their terms set and ready to go. According to Wielomski, Trump and Putin have already made an...
rmx.news rmx.news
 
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#4,557
lariat said:
rmx.news

Western Europe wants war in Ukraine to continue, even without the Americans

A Polish political scientist and journalist, Prof. Adam Wielomski, has taken to social media to claim Western European leaders do not seek a ceasefire in Ukraine at all, while the U.S. and Russia have their terms set and ready to go. According to Wielomski, Trump and Putin have already made an...
rmx.news rmx.news
Click to expand...

Wholly unsurprising.

Even if a peace deal is reached, I guarantee Europe and the CIA will continue to sponsor an unofficial dirty war.
 
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#4,560
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#4,561
Snuby642 said:
The ultra nationalists? You talking about the grandpa's shaking their canes at the clouds?

Or the draft dodgers hiding in Poland? I don't see much of them .
They must be the true ghosts of Kiev.

I think a last minute scramble to upstage Trump is what's going on.
No real changes, just a show.
Click to expand...

I'm talking about 3rd Assault Brigade, Nachtingall unit, the "Da Vinci Wolves", C/S-14 and others.

The same ultra-nationalists that are currently threatening Zelensky right now over potential peace:

 
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#4,562
There is plenty of rotten people left remember the nazi death squads in spring 45 killing their own countrymen indiscriminately and it was well after the few years of carnage. Human swines always have a knack of standing in the shadows pushing others onto the conveyor belt. Remember how many escaped justice to either US army/services or to South America. Same with Ukrainian “diaspora” where they successfully poisoned western policies and wrecked havoc again in bad rerun of wwii. The denazification list is still long and there is a long way to go and i dont think this will end by one personal meeting between leaders. It will be nothing but a lot of words on how great it went, maybe a stunt or two a bit of theater and some sanctions more, how Putin bad and yada yada until Ukie front collapses completely which as it appears is in the process of.
 
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#4,563
all this is just more evidence that we should never had anything to do with this war. our various MIC,neocon,power hungry elites jumped on the chance to profit. black rock will keep trying to keep it going,prob with success. obvious that we should pull everything out of Europe and let it rot into the 3rd world shit hole it is becoming. their and our locked at the hip elites don't want that so look for more resources,mostly military,to keep get funneled there.
 
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#4,564
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#4,565
seems so. Ukraine is said to be very short of troops. if what i read is true,they don't have enough force to concentrate for a counter offensive. if they did,they would have to strip another area which would give the Russ another weak spot to hit. if an offense looks real,it could be let to advance then chopped off at the base for a big loss. like the 3rd battle of Kharkov in 1943?
looks like Ukraine has or is losing the air war. so,can't really hide what it is doing or it's strength at any spot.
looks like they are done for. just putting out a fire with gasoline.
 
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#4,567
You think West wants meeting because its winning? Situation is beyond fucked up for US let alone EU and only way out is to somehow avoid complete military defeat and try to spin it as agreement due to Russias weakness. Will it happen? I bet not Russia will not fall for it again and Trump will be politely informed that in areas of nuke control and bilateral issues we can and should talk but regarding Ukieland and Eurowhores he can fuck off and if adamant in pursuing same shit also the bilateral issues are off the table.
 
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#4,568
sharac said:
You think West wants meeting because its winning? Situation is beyond fucked up for US let alone EU and only way out is to somehow avoid complete military defeat and try to spin it as agreement due to Russias weakness. Will it happen? I bet not Russia will not fall for it again and Trump will be politely informed that in areas of nuke control and bilateral issues we can and should talk but regarding Ukieland and Eurowhores he can fuck off and if adamant in pursuing same shit also the bilateral issues are off the table.
Click to expand...

I suspect Putin will be a fair bit more diplomatic and give Trump a way to come out looking like he's the decent one and if it fails, it's because of Z and the Euro type.

Russia probably already knows what they are likely to achieve and what they would like to have happen in regards to US-Russia relations
My guess it goes along the line of let's call it a "deal" and we get what we were going to fight for but stop needing to fight anymore and we go back to playing nice again.
 
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#4,569

"Volodymyr Zelensky announced moments ago, that he will not accept the agreements made between Putin and Trump at the upcoming meeting in Alaska this Friday.

Zelensky has now said that the Armed Forces of Ukraine will not voluntarily leave Donbas. Instead, he says the Armed Forces of Ukraine must liberate the remaining parts of Donbas.

The same Donbas that his same troops were shelling and mortaring back in the year 2014, which resulted in about 13,000 civilians killed."
 
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#4,570
lariat said:

"Volodymyr Zelensky announced moments ago, that he will not accept the agreements made between Putin and Trump at the upcoming meeting in Alaska this Friday.

Zelensky has now said that the Armed Forces of Ukraine will not voluntarily leave Donbas. Instead, he says the Armed Forces of Ukraine must liberate the remaining parts of Donbas.

The same Donbas that his same troops were shelling and mortaring back in the year 2014, which resulted in about 13,000 civilians killed."
Click to expand...

Nice way of trying to piss Trump off by saying he won't do anything Trump tells him to do.


That might make it easier on Trump, he can come to a complete Peace agreement with Putin and walk away with victory and then if Z refuses to do as told, well Trump can wash his hands of it and Putin can go ahead and finish the job.
 
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#4,571
Putin wants his land, just like he fk'd Georgia, Putin will fk Ukraine.
Putin won't give anything up,,because he'll lose face.
War won't end unless Ukraine agrees to give up their land. I'm sure Putin will push for a larger land grab.
Ukraine has been the bread basket to Europe and Russia for Centuries. Russia wants that basket back.
It might get paused, Putin will continue a build up and boom, Putin will find another excuse to make a land grab.
Nato's fk'd. EU can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. Poland knows, poland is on it's own.

1755030514318.png
 
#4,573
You are pathetic in your “putin this putin that”. You are projecting your own “land grab” wet dreams as most westerners do as you are all about material property - shallow as fuck and in comparison with ancient cultures also young us fuck (baby part of your handle). “Putin” told you plainly and clearly that one of main goals is demilitarization aka “kill the fucks that started this shit” and you keep going on about some “land grab” like a broken record. They have managed to kill pretty much everything that got to the front willingly and whats left are remnants and poor sods stupid or poor enough to unable to escape. So far Russians have kept the diplomatic posture in the public however if you chihuahuas really try to bite (Kaliningrad for example as one of your braindead commanders hinted) we all will find out the purpose of universe really fast as planet Earth will be devoid of organic life. But really i think your kind is not prepared for that as you like your comfort way too much and its high time someone called your fucking bluff.
 
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#4,576
babyguppy said:
Putin wants his land, just like he fk'd Georgia, Putin will fk Ukraine.
Putin won't give anything up,,because he'll lose face.
War won't end unless Ukraine agrees to give up their land. I'm sure Putin will push for a larger land grab.
Ukraine has been the bread basket to Europe and Russia for Centuries. Russia wants that basket back.
It might get paused, Putin will continue a build up and boom, Putin will find another excuse to make a land grab.
Nato's fk'd. EU can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. Poland knows, poland is on it's own.

View attachment 8746135
Click to expand...
what exactly does anything that happens in Ukraine have to do with American nat'l interest? i don't refer to the MIC's weapons sales,black rocks land grabs or the bloviating talk from the Graham types who are in no danger of anything happening to them. well many more $s will go into their pockets but that doesn't count as a bad outcome for them.
but i guess you think the billions we have wasted there was a good investment to stop those evil Russians and protect our good friends in Europe.
 
#4,578
mosin46 said:
what exactly does anything that happens in Ukraine have to do with American nat'l interest? i don't refer to the MIC's weapons sales,black rocks land grabs or the bloviating talk from the Graham types who are in no danger of anything happening to them. well many more $s will go into their pockets but that doesn't count as a bad outcome for them.
but i guess you think the billions we have wasted there was a good investment to stop those evil Russians and protect our good friends in Europe.
Click to expand...
You are saying things that I never said.
You claim to be a mind reader, but the only thing you can read is what is written on the inside of your colon.
 
#4,580
babyguppy said:
You are saying things that I never said.
You claim to be a mind reader, but the only thing you can read is what is written on the inside of your colon.
Click to expand...
you sound like a typical "Putin will conquer Ukraine" whiner. my question,simplified for your ideas,was who cares?

but OMG! your brilliant intellectual riposte was devastating.
 
#4,583
Putin won't concede anything because he doesn't have to. Ukraine is getting meat ground into nothing.
Even if loses were 1-1, which no fucking way it's close to that, it's a battle Ukraine has shown it can't maintain.

Putin will probably keep going until he gets a complete demilitarization and agreement of no foreign deployments of any sort inside whatever remaining borders he allows them to have. He won't agree to anything less because he doesn't have to.
Fucking Z is only interesting in continuing the grift. He also doesn't care about loses. The shills have left this thread because it's undeniable. Fucking Trump needs to just fucking pull out. Stop wasting our tax dollars on this fucking scam.
 
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#4,585
GreenGO Juan said:
I think that is accurate.

What I don't get here, is why they(the Ukraine) consider ceding any territory to Russia as a loss, or find it a non starter. The facts on the battle field as you mention are apparent. They were able to repel a full take over, in that regard they are successful. They have the shift west they wanted. Why risk all that they maintained, the 80% they kept, over the 20% they could not hold. They did break free of the hold the Kremlin had on them.

As messed up as this entire thing has been, to me that doesn't seem like the massive loss they play it as. Sounds like they for the most part got what they wanted.

So can we stop destroying every things and start rebuilding things.
Click to expand...
The only thing that I can think of is that Ukraine really wanted this war. Sounds stupid right but they were being trained, equipped and supplied by NATO countries before the invasion in 2022, for the purpose IMO, to retake both break-away regions and Crimea. With how much they talk about Crimea, I suspect the US has some serious dough on the table for anyone who can deliver it from Russian occupation.

As much as I dislike Zelenskyy, he does have a figurative and literal gun pointed at his head from the people Putin wants to de-nazify. The first peace talks, that Boris Johnson fucked up were basically just Minsk 2, Russia wasn't prepared to gain control over LPR and DPR and it wasn't until late 2022 that these oblasts folded into Russia by "annexation".

mosin46 said:
looks like Ukraine has or is losing the air war. so,can't really hide what it is doing or it's strength at any spot.
looks like they are done for. just putting out a fire with gasoline.
Click to expand...
There was a Ukrainian source that described "new" model defences, which are basically physical barriers like trenches, wire and mines that are seemingly defended solely by drones. It looks like where Russia made this recent advance there was fuck all troops on the ground to actually do anything. If that's not an indication of Ukraine's manpower issues, I don''t know what is.

babyguppy said:
Putin wants his land, just like he fk'd Georgia, Putin will fk Ukraine.
Putin won't give anything up,,because he'll lose face.
War won't end unless Ukraine agrees to give up their land. I'm sure Putin will push for a larger land grab.
Ukraine has been the bread basket to Europe and Russia for Centuries. Russia wants that basket back.
It might get paused, Putin will continue a build up and boom, Putin will find another excuse to make a land grab.
Nato's fk'd. EU can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. Poland knows, poland is on it's own.
Click to expand...
Right at the start of the war there were peace talks where Russia's position was basically just Minsk 2, ie Russia keeps Crimea forever but Luhansk and Donbas remain independent until the Ukraine government wasn't so fucked in the head, didn't support large amounts of ultranationalists and stopped murdering civilians in the east like a bunch of fucking spastics.

Once this happened, Luhansk and Donbas would have been folded back into Ukraine and everyone could move on as one happy, boarderlined retarded nation.

Boris Johnson fucked these peace talks by telling Ukraine they would have full security gurantees (boots on the ground) from not just the UK but also the US.

Russia isn't taking more than 4/5/6/7 Oblasts and even that number depends on Ukraines willingness to negotiate.
 
#4,586
Troll or no troll you are writing nonsense and something that is more than clearly non factual. Above all you simply do not understand the core reasons for this war unlike your intelligence experts that started it - they damn well do. Unfortunately by you not understanding (and many of your compatriots) you open yourself (and me and others) to the same shit Ukies did - a suicide by cop. For most of us it’s unacceptable that due to idiots like you we all should be eventually forced into confrontation with people we do not hate, have done nothing to us and by that serving elites that we do hate, have done many things to us. Smart (and rich) Ukrainians have left their country well before conscription started but many had no means to do so and now they are dead - for what exactly?
 
#4,587
Eostech said:
The only thing that I can think of is that Ukraine really wanted this war. Sounds stupid right but they were being trained, equipped and supplied by NATO countries before the invasion in 2022, for the purpose IMO, to retake both break-away regions and Crimea. With how much they talk about Crimea, I suspect the US has some serious dough on the table for anyone who can deliver it from Russian occupation.

As much as I dislike Zelenskyy, he does have a figurative and literal gun pointed at his head from the people Putin wants to de-nazify. The first peace talks, that Boris Johnson fucked up were basically just Minsk 2, Russia wasn't prepared to gain control over LPR and DPR and it wasn't until late 2022 that these oblasts folded into Russia by "annexation".


There was a Ukrainian source that described "new" model defences, which are basically physical barriers like trenches, wire and mines that are seemingly defended solely by drones. It looks like where Russia made this recent advance there was fuck all troops on the ground to actually do anything. If that's not an indication of Ukraine's manpower issues, I don''t know what is.


Right at the start of the war there were peace talks where Russia's position was basically just Minsk 2, ie Russia keeps Crimea forever but Luhansk and Donbas remain independent until the Ukraine government wasn't so fucked in the head, didn't support large amounts of ultranationalists and stopped murdering civilians in the east like a bunch of fucking spastics.

Once this happened, Luhansk and Donbas would have been folded back into Ukraine and everyone could move on as one happy, boarderlined retarded nation.

Boris Johnson fucked these peace talks by telling Ukraine they would have full security gurantees (boots on the ground) from not just the UK but also the US.

Russia isn't taking more than 4/5/6/7 Oblasts and even that number depends on Ukraines willingness to negotiate.
Click to expand...
I think there is an argument that some wanted this war. It’s a long and complicated topic, more than I personally feel like tackling.
 
#4,588
How does the rest of the world ignore the fact this is unsustainable?

Greedy, culpable American criminals (democrats mostly) got this going with the sole purpose of graft. They should be hauled up for war crimes.

The fucking E U has got off their ass about as much as me. Not one bit of effort at all. Just a bunch of couch sitting mouth, expecting America to bail them out.

If this were going on in my country realistically I would probably be dead having taken as many insurgents with me as was possible. I don't kid myself.

I think the meat grinder is about out of fodder.
 
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