What would be a slight step up from .
- Thread starter ohlongarm
- Start date
Athlon Ares ETR and Delta Javelin 4.5-30x56 are the next logical step up. Telson TM 5-25x56 might be as well, but I need to spend more time with it.
ILya
how do we ban someone??? What the fuck are you talking about with these suggestions? I would normally let Athlon slide, but these others are just senseless, no-name companies.
go buy anyting else. especially from vortex - are you just trying to validate a por purchase?
Yea, let's ban the guy who knows more about optics and has tested more than anyone else? Are you serious? You are NOT new.
While I might not know those brands either, and am way too much of a snob with poor eyesight to mess with budget scopes at this stage of my life, ILya does, and knows what he's talking about.
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Reviews and discussions of shooting and hunting related optical devices, such as rifle scopes, spotters, binoculars, etc. We will also on occasion review cameras, rifles, pistols, knives and other shooting and outdoor related equipment that interests us.
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He tests high end too, but for those starting out he is probably the best resource on the web, period.
Who are you again?
If the mods banned people for dumb comments, you would be first in line with this banger. Wow... lol
Right, cause they all start out at the top.
I think someone is bumping their add too often in the px. You should check it out.
Before you really make a complete fool of yourself, you should step back a bit and do some research about who you are talking about and how much he knows and the wide range of optics that he regularly has access to and the testing companies he runs and how long he has been giving solid scientific reviews on scopes from an actual understanding of how they work perspective.
Or you could double down and really be in for the full bear pit treatment for a long time.
Plenty of legitimate companies out there making quality scopes to not recommend unknown and unproven optics.
How many of you own a….. telson (whatever the fuck that is) if he’s so wise and trusted??? Interested to know how many will put your money up for this one.
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I can only tell you to stop digging. I can’t take the shovel out of your hands.
What qualities are you looking to improve over the DNT? Just wondering because I have heard good things about them for the price and was wondering where they were lacking.
So the one meets all your criteria, yet you start a thread on what would be a step up, then when you get suggestions it's no thanks I'm good with the one? Was there a reason for this thread?
A few comments.
Vortex does not currently make a 56mm objective scope in the $1000-ish price range, which is more or less where you need to be in order to offer some sort of an improvement over DNT The One. The closest Vortex has at the moment is the Strike Eagle 5-25x56, which is a nice scope, but DNT probably has a bit of an edge over it. Next step up from Vortex is the Gen2 Razor, which is quite a bit more money.
Athlon ERS ETR 4.5-30x56 and Delta Javelin 4.5-30x56 are very similar scopes made by the same OEM, but with different turrets and reticles. Reticles are individual, so it is good to look at both. Delta Optical has been around for a while. I think they started in early 2000s, which makes it older than Athlon, Vortex (I think), Maven, Tract, GPO, March. etc. It is not a big company, but they are growing and are pretty well known in Europe. They are slowly growing here as well.
Telson is indeed new.
Athlon is, indeed, a very recognizable name in the US market.
As far as small companies go, I remember back around 2006-2007 or sometime around then, a few people took a chance on a new optics company. They had no name recognition, a limited product line and iffy future. I distinctly remember someone asking me why I would get a scope from some new outfit instead of a well established brand with known support and reputation, like Leupold or Bushnell. My basic line of thought at the time was that the guys at that company seemed like nice people and if noone ever takes a chance small companies will never become big companies. Competition is a healthy thing and big players need an occasional wake up call. Apparently, I was not the only one who thought they were worth a shot, since that little optics company grew, iterated their product line, developed new products and eventually became the largest player (by a solid margin) in the riflescope world. If you havn't yet figured out who I am talking about, the company is Vortex.
Some people are willing to take a chance on a new company. Some are not. That's why we have options.
ILya
Vortex does not currently make a 56mm objective scope in the $1000-ish price range, which is more or less where you need to be in order to offer some sort of an improvement over DNT The One. The closest Vortex has at the moment is the Strike Eagle 5-25x56, which is a nice scope, but DNT probably has a bit of an edge over it. Next step up from Vortex is the Gen2 Razor, which is quite a bit more money.
Athlon ERS ETR 4.5-30x56 and Delta Javelin 4.5-30x56 are very similar scopes made by the same OEM, but with different turrets and reticles. Reticles are individual, so it is good to look at both. Delta Optical has been around for a while. I think they started in early 2000s, which makes it older than Athlon, Vortex (I think), Maven, Tract, GPO, March. etc. It is not a big company, but they are growing and are pretty well known in Europe. They are slowly growing here as well.
Telson is indeed new.
Athlon is, indeed, a very recognizable name in the US market.
As far as small companies go, I remember back around 2006-2007 or sometime around then, a few people took a chance on a new optics company. They had no name recognition, a limited product line and iffy future. I distinctly remember someone asking me why I would get a scope from some new outfit instead of a well established brand with known support and reputation, like Leupold or Bushnell. My basic line of thought at the time was that the guys at that company seemed like nice people and if noone ever takes a chance small companies will never become big companies. Competition is a healthy thing and big players need an occasional wake up call. Apparently, I was not the only one who thought they were worth a shot, since that little optics company grew, iterated their product line, developed new products and eventually became the largest player (by a solid margin) in the riflescope world. If you havn't yet figured out who I am talking about, the company is Vortex.
Some people are willing to take a chance on a new company. Some are not. That's why we have options.
ILya
Holy fuck. You got dumber since the last thread.
Mate, I like this forum, and I try not to argue about shit with strangers on the internet, but I swear you are collecting the infinity stones of retarded posts in the last fortnight.
Normally the dogshit takes are shared between a few posters on here, but somehow you’ve had a monopoly on them lately
Also I would bet my ass, the Athlon and the Delta fall out of the same production line. Over here in europe the Delta can be had cheaper than the Athlon.
Quality of the (japan made) Delta scopes is very good. I don't think the chinese made scopes are better or worse than the same models from other companies.
Quality of the (japan made) Delta scopes is very good. I don't think the chinese made scopes are better or worse than the same models from other companies.
You buying a telson?? Put your money where your mouth is.
This guy just said a DNT is better than a vortex strike eagle. I stand by what I said - that’s a horrible recommendation.
Lots of people angry about my comment - yet not one of you is using a delta or whatever a telson is…….
I'm not like these other guys that always seem to be on cocaine with how hard and fast they react, but I do have to say, that guy you are talking about, is a guy that brand name scope companies sometimes go to, to help THEM design shit in their scopes lol. He's by no stretch a newbie in optics lol. If there was anyone on here that you'd disagree with about optics on here, that would be the LAST guy here to discard what info he has to put out. If you disagree with it, just mentally discard it and move on. Of course some attributes are purely subjective, some are not. But if he says 'so and so' is what it's supposed to be, it's probably correct.
Vortex > teslong and delta.
If you find that controversial I disagree with you whole heartedly. And I’ll point out not one of you has claimed to own that shit.
Sending out one singular test scope to a guy known for reviewing scopes doesn’t make someone a good company. Being a substantial player in the space with robust qc and cs does. Recommending a scope company that probably won’t be around in 3 years over the reliable giant known as vortex is insane (or leupold, Nightforce, even Burris - I’m not vortex loyal at all)
Disagree if you want, but I won’t value your disagreement until you go spend money on a delta or teslong. If this guy knows so much you should be beating down the door to guy buy a 1k optic that’s better than vortex.
If you find that controversial I disagree with you whole heartedly. And I’ll point out not one of you has claimed to own that shit.
Sending out one singular test scope to a guy known for reviewing scopes doesn’t make someone a good company. Being a substantial player in the space with robust qc and cs does. Recommending a scope company that probably won’t be around in 3 years over the reliable giant known as vortex is insane (or leupold, Nightforce, even Burris - I’m not vortex loyal at all)
Disagree if you want, but I won’t value your disagreement until you go spend money on a delta or teslong. If this guy knows so much you should be beating down the door to guy buy a 1k optic that’s better than vortex.
The Athlon Ares 4.5-30 is precisely what I was looking when deciding between the "One" and something else. They were similar performers in my eyes, but the DNT won out due to price. Though there is the Bushnell match pro and the burris XTR 3 as well.
I can't say you're wrong; if a person is willing to suggest something they dont even own themselves, it is a little odd, BUT, look at how Element started (i think) as one of those no name European bb gun scope companies that hoped to catch on in the biggest firearms market in the world. No one gave them a second look until recently. Now their Theos line of scopes are doing pretty well. I have one myself and it's my favorite scope now. I get what you're saying, that someone shouldnt suggest an up and coming company that they dont even own, over an already established, proven scope, but new scope companies need a chance too. I'm super happy DNT and Element got big enough, because I am really happy with them for the use case that I employ them in. I took a chance and was pleasantly surprised.
Optically, yes the DNT is probably nicer than the strike eagle.
Considering who OEMs for Delta, yes they are nicer scopes than anything that isn't a Razor from Vortex and they trade blows with Razors since again, if I understand correctly, Deltas and Razors use much of the same OEM in Japan.
You clearly haven't done a lot of research.
Arken is also doing very well. Probably selling more scopes than dnt, theos and telsong put together.
I don’t think that makes them a good scope.
Vortex reputation for QC has never been great. Especially in everything below the razor, which is clearly what was being discussed. This is not a brand discussion, this is about a specific tier of scopes that have a particular set of features.
Hey now, don't be bad mouthing Teslong. I do happen to own a Teslong scope and like it. I will admit it is a bit of a short range scope and the field of view is limited, but it fills a niche. I've learned a lot about rifle cleaning using that scope.
“Optically, yes the DNT is probably nicer than the strike eagle.”
Show me you own both a DNT and a higher end scope and I’ll consider your opinion.
This also negates the value in qc, and cs in the space. If optical clarity was the only thing that mattered leupold would never sell a mk5, but yet they’re the second most popular scope in prs….. https://precisionrifleblog.com/2025...g-range-precision-shooting-what-the-pros-use/
All scope companies put out scopes that fail even zco and TT. How they handle that failure is everything and vortex is routinely cited among the best in handling cs.
I didn't say a word about CS. You dealt with Delta, DNT, and teslog CS. I didn't think so....
I didn't say a word about CS. You dealt with Delta, DNT, and teslog CS. I didn't think so....
That would make two of us. If they’re around long enough for it to matter - which is my point.
What’s the difference between those and arken?? You gonna argue for that scope company you also don’t own too?
Once you adopt the policy of doing the opposite of anything Maury says, it's far easier to see him for the soggy bottom troll he is.Yea, let's ban the guy who knows more about optics and has tested more than anyone else? Are you serious? You are NOT new.
While I might not know those brands either, and am way too much of a snob with poor eyesight to mess with budget scopes at this stage of my life, ILya does, and knows what he's talking about.
OpticsThoughts
Reviews and discussions of shooting and hunting related optical devices, such as rifle scopes, spotters, binoculars, etc. We will also on occasion review cameras, rifles, pistols, knives and other shooting and outdoor related equipment that interests us.opticsthoughts.comDarkLordOfOptics
Connect with ILya and other members of DarkLordOfOptics community
He tests high end too, but for those starting out he is probably the best resource on the web, period.
Who are you again?
No you're right. Sheer numbers alone is OBVIOUSLY not an indicator of clarity or overall durability/fit & finish. If that was the case, tasco would beat out everyone lol. What I meant by doing well is, popularity plus a lot of good reviews. You wont get super popular (at least around here) without some good reviews. That Theos wouldnt have rose up if every person on here thought the picture was shit, and the tracking sucked.
I've owned, looked through and shot with scopes from all over the price spectrum and I've been around long enough to know who's who in optics manufacturing, thanks in no small part to Koshkin's work.
Clearly you haven't.
This thread has been a great reminder for all of us to take lead exposure seriously. Be sure to wash your hands thoroughly after finger fucking your gear or shooting, and opt for ventilated ranges if you have to shoot indoors. Lead exposure can have lasting effects on your brain, and once cognitive decline sets in, it’s hard to reverse. You don't just sober up from it.
Indeed. I’m quite alarmed at people backing knock off garbage with no experience with it.
The arken boys are growing.
