Ultimatum Precision Gen2 with IBI 24” 1-7.5” twist 2.810 OAL.
41.2gr H4350
CCI BR-4
Lapua brass
41.2gr H4350
CCI BR-4
Lapua brass
6.5 Creedmoor
- Thread starter Sportin Wood
- Start date
Well, it just so happens my "pet" load for my 26" 6.5cm Savage with 147gr ELD-M is 43.1gr of StaBall 6.5 at 2730 fps.
This is the load I used last year in a long range precision rifle course with Frank and Marc and was getting centerline hits at 1240 yds and consistent 1st round hits at distances from 400 to 1000 yds.
With the 147s, H4350 wasn't quite as accurate as StaBall but this year I used 140gr ELD-Ms with 42.4gr of H4350 at 2840 fps and got the same results.
I have lots of pet loads for a 6.5, several of which worked great in my MPA in 6.5 (since rebarreled to 6GT). Problem is what works great for me may be terrrible in your rifle. Further, MPA builds enough rifles and barrels that they do replace reamers which I feel is a good thing. Probably the reamer in my 2022 barrel has likely been replaced many times since. And we are not even getting into the tools used to drill and rifle barrels.
Point, don’t use other people’s loads, get some good reloading manuals and have some fun finding out what YOUR barrel’s pet loads are.
Just trying to get a good baseline. Ive seen that the max charges run from 40.3 to 41.8 max depending on which manual you look at. And some guys are running much hotter than that. I just seem to have a problem finding a CONSISTENT load. 38.8 worked just fine (around half moa) but i get weird changes in group size and spikes in es/sd from time to time
Last edited:
Just for fun since I tried looking it up and didn’t see any data on if mixing lots of Lapua Brass matters. I have 400 Lapua srp, 2 different lots that has all been fireformed and was trying to determine if it was worth the pain of keeping it separated. Lot 1 is about .5gr lighter than the lot 2 brass. So I took 5 of each and loaded them up with the exact same load and round robin’d them. Not a huge sample size, was just curious.
40.0gr H4350
140gr eld-m
CCI 450
Group size was slightly better on Lot 2. I will probably end up mixing them after the next firing.
40.0gr H4350
140gr eld-m
CCI 450
Group size was slightly better on Lot 2. I will probably end up mixing them after the next firing.
Attachments
I just made a thread about this maybe a month ago. I didn't count, but I think I had about an even split on replies.
I would say try 20 shot groups with each to determine.
Dang I’ll have to look for that. That is around the time I actually did this, after I actually searched. Probably depends on the specific lots too.
I’m fine with mixing these numbers, for what I need it will work just fine. This was just the first load I picked after a POI ladder when I got the barrel. I shot it for 4 local 1 days so it has 400 down it now and have a node that I think is at ~2810fps so going to try that compared to the 2695 I am getting here and try a few seat depths quick.
Hey all,
What should I expect for MV out of a 24" with 144 bergers and h4350?
I'm gonna start fresh and try to see if I can find a load that shoots. I don't want to push these too hard or be near max pressure, just something decent and comfortable.
What should I expect for MV out of a 24" with 144 bergers and h4350?
I'm gonna start fresh and try to see if I can find a load that shoots. I don't want to push these too hard or be near max pressure, just something decent and comfortable.
20 shot groups? lol can’t tell anything without 100 shot groups! Got to burn that barrel out trying to find “the load”.
Seriously 20 shots is crazy imho. Key is not to just sit at 100 yards and burn powder trying to find the best LONG RANGE load.
Seriously 20 shots is crazy imho. Key is not to just sit at 100 yards and burn powder trying to find the best LONG RANGE load.
20 shot groups? lol can’t tell anything without 100 shot groups! Got to burn that barrel out trying to find “the load”.
Seriously 20 shots is crazy imho. Key is not to just sit at 100 yards and burn powder trying to find the best LONG RANGE load.
Or 4x 5 shot groups. I just don't think one 5 shot group is indicative of how that brass/load will perform.
Remember, once he mixes those 2 lots, he'll never be able to tell them apart.
If his groups start to open up or have random fliers, he might be questioning his decision to mix them. At least I would lol. It would drive me crazy knowing I mixed them without doing a bit more extensive testing other than one 5 shot group with each brass.
That's the point of view I have. Though he already mentioned that for his needs, mixing them won't matter.
With the difference in his shots I wouldn’t sweat it at all. I’d load some and shoot them at longer ranges, at least 300 yards, and see how the groups are and how they waterline.
Is that weight the weight of the case or the water weight of internal capacity as that is what matters. Actual case weight doesn’t really tell you much.
Is that weight the weight of the case or the water weight of internal capacity as that is what matters. Actual case weight doesn’t really tell you much.
I really wanted this to be true but, I developed a few different loads with 123s and 130s in my Tikka, even had 130elds doing 2950fps at one stage.
But nothing was ever as good as my 147s ELD-M load doing 2680.
The 147s were also stupid easy to find a load for and really accurate.
I've picked up a new 6.5CM that I'll try the lighter bullets in, might even try some 100-108gr bullets to play the recoil game.
Is anyone using 108gr Scenars?
I know Frank and Chris like the 100gr ELD-M, but the BC on that is terrible.
The 108 Scenar on the other had is fairly respectable and should be more than enough for middle distance comps (700-800yard max).
I know Frank and Chris like the 100gr ELD-M, but the BC on that is terrible.
The 108 Scenar on the other had is fairly respectable and should be more than enough for middle distance comps (700-800yard max).
Interesting observation. Not that long ago, anyone who even gave the 6.5 Creedmoor a glacé was considered the leading Gay Wimp in the entire internet. Now all the cool kids are talking about it again as well as a whole bunch of us regular fellows.
Next thing you know we’ll all be driving Subarus.
Next thing you know we’ll all be driving Subarus.
No it was all the wimps who were/are frightened by it replacing their favorite round and had to talk it down. Actual shooters looked at it and saw its potential. That’s why I have been shooting it since Jan 2008
I keep forgetting that exists.
Some BC numbers:
100 eldm .385
107 smk .430
107 tmk .445
108 scenar .465
123 smk .510
123 scenar .527
123 eldm .493
130 eldm .554
130 smk .584
The two scenars seem like the best options in this lower weight range.
Last edited:
The 123 smk has a really good BC too but I don't recall it's value or where it sits on that list.
Today I shot some 130 AR Hybrids on the grendel since I use them on creedmoor and thought about trying them out.
In my creedmoor, they've been awesome.
Incredible group at that distance.Ultimatum Precision Gen2 with IBI 24” 1-7.5” twist 2.810 OAL.
41.2gr H4350
CCI BR-4
Lapua brass
Mike
Anybody have any tips on getting this carbon ring off. Rifle is right at 399 rounds with one cleaning in between. I don't remember how many rounds when I first cleaned it. I've left a patch soaking overnight multiple times already and no luck. I've been using boretech eliminator.
I just went through this.
Cleaning Carbon ring / barrel with Thorolean - Some Questions
So I got the cleaning kit and wondering how clean is too clean.. Should I completely get rid of the carbon ring or just a mild scrub.. I did 2 x 20 passes with the Thoroclean system and got rid of a lot of carbon. BArrell looks much cleaner. Should I keep going? I think I will do one more...
www.snipershide.com
What issues are they causing? They don’t look too bad. Do you use a bronze brush when cleaning after a soak with a good bore solvent?
I do use a bronze brush. I think this last soak from last night until right now helped getting some of it off.
I've been having clickers and poor accuracy. After speaking to a few members here, one very knowledgeable member has advised me it might be a pressure issue. So just to eliminate one thing at a time, as a process of elimination, I wanted to rid my barrel of this carbon ring.
I was not successful doing so, and since I'm only in town until tomorrow, I will go try some new loads tomorrow and see what happens. The carbon ring, coupled with a potentially dirty chamber, may have been the root cause. I know if the chamber is dirty, it'll cause the case to want to stick due to friction. My suppressor has become pretty dirty. As a result, some small chunks sometimes end up making their way to my chamber and bolt face. My idea was to get everything as clean as possible and start a new load workup. If my issue persists, I now know I can look somewhere else.
I'm also gonna try some loads tomorrow with h4350 instead of r16.
More on Scenar 139 and H4350.
Colder slower node at 40.7 identified in GRT, so I loaded some at 40.7 gr and 2.805" COAL. These turned out nicely but my trigger and rear bag work were lazy on 2 of the 3 sets of 5. The better set produced this:
For the full 15 rds with this 40.7gr load, velocity was 2709.2 fps AVG and SD was 7.0 fps.
I plugged that result into GRT for OBT truing and was suggested 40.6gr. So today I tested 40.6 gr in 20 rds. 10 were loaded at the same 2.805" COAL already underway. The other 10 I tested at the Lapua web site's suggested 2.717" COAL. The seating depth differences were pretty big on paper.
For these 10 rd sets, the 2.805" COAL went 2671.8 fps AVG with 12.4 fps SD. The 2.717" COAL went 2662.1 fps AVG and SD was 13.9 fps.
Colder slower node at 40.7 identified in GRT, so I loaded some at 40.7 gr and 2.805" COAL. These turned out nicely but my trigger and rear bag work were lazy on 2 of the 3 sets of 5. The better set produced this:
For the full 15 rds with this 40.7gr load, velocity was 2709.2 fps AVG and SD was 7.0 fps.
I plugged that result into GRT for OBT truing and was suggested 40.6gr. So today I tested 40.6 gr in 20 rds. 10 were loaded at the same 2.805" COAL already underway. The other 10 I tested at the Lapua web site's suggested 2.717" COAL. The seating depth differences were pretty big on paper.
For these 10 rd sets, the 2.805" COAL went 2671.8 fps AVG with 12.4 fps SD. The 2.717" COAL went 2662.1 fps AVG and SD was 13.9 fps.
I shot 139L in 6.5cm for years for short range accuracy. They are stupid accurate, their just a football so not the best at distance compared to Berger Hybrids..
Out of my 26" Bartlein my load was 42gr H4350. 2768. Base to Ogive 2.291" i dont record coal but if I recall this was in the 2.815-2.825" range.. I know i was 2.835" to the lands in that rifle.
Held the top spot of the SH 6x5 100yd challenge for a while with the 139L and H4350
Out of my 26" Bartlein my load was 42gr H4350. 2768. Base to Ogive 2.291" i dont record coal but if I recall this was in the 2.815-2.825" range.. I know i was 2.835" to the lands in that rifle.
Held the top spot of the SH 6x5 100yd challenge for a while with the 139L and H4350
Bronze or brass chamber brush ,ISN'T going to harm anything . Best chemical cleaner and recommended is ;
ARMAKLEEN™ M-100 BCR (Baked on Carbon Remover) is a specially formulated low pH cleaner that performs like a caustic cleaner without the use of free caustics. M -100 BCR is a safer aqueous cleaner designed to attack and remove baked on carbon and other heavy soils from steel and soft metals like cast aluminum engine blocks and other aluminum alloy components.
Also : C4 Carbon cleaner . Either product works really well by doing two things .
A : make yourself a rack to hold your rifle or rifles with muzzle down . B : Buy a Viton ,Neoprene or EPDM either tapered or as I prefer pull plug . Stop muzzle end ,add cleaner via chamber end slowly and carefully ,so as NOT to spill it on your rifles finish . Use a flashlight or strong light and stop at chamber lede . When finished drain from muzzle end ONLY ,into a large enough container . You can reuse cleaner over and over ,simply via a small funnel return it to it's container . You can even filter using paper towel or coffee filter ,ceramic if you have one . I recommend wearing Nitrile or rubber gloves ,when draining as it avoids hand contact which is inevitable given how one has to pull the plug inside a bowl or container .
Either type work ,I simply prefer a pull plug ,so muzzle crown remains protected and sets down onto the plug .
Below strictly illustration purposes only . Various supply houses sell normally #25-1K packages ,you can check other sources
Pull plug ,if you're not familiar : https://viadon.com/products/caps-plugs-and-corks/epdm-pull-plugs
https://store.mocap.com/mocap_en/mep.html?Item=MEP.250/437
Once a Year I clean ALL MY fired Rifles chemically and then neutralize solutions before proceeding to use bore solvent a mop and nylon brush ,along with patches to dry and ensure cleanliness . IF I'm not using a particular rifle for awhile ,I'll swab with a 50% mixture of Hoppe's and BoeShield T9 . Fyi : I've some safe queens which I've swabbed the bores and applied Boeshield T9 too outer metal and 2-58 years not a spot of rust on any of those . Before Boeshield became available , I used to use Mil bore solvent and Weapons oil and the Safes wreaked of foul smelling concoctions .
padom -- they are plump little pellets, and they don't look like long range wizards to my eye. The 123 Scenar, which I've shot in 6.5 Grendel, looks more suitable based on shape/looks alone.
I don't think I'd try it for PRS, but I did want to work up a load just as part of my learning. I got some Bergers to try, 130 AR Hybrid, 140 Hybrid, when I get confident in my repeatable brass sizing and my powder charges seem consistent. The powder seems okay now, but my brass sizing needs more work.
I don't think I'd try it for PRS, but I did want to work up a load just as part of my learning. I got some Bergers to try, 130 AR Hybrid, 140 Hybrid, when I get confident in my repeatable brass sizing and my powder charges seem consistent. The powder seems okay now, but my brass sizing needs more work.
Similar threads
