This won’t be popular, but serious question for the Vets on disability

akmike47

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  • Feb 23, 2013
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    I keep seeing videos where people teach Vets how to get more disability, how is this open fraud tolerated? People get pissed off at government spending but every cook and supply guy has 100% disability. I’ve worked with guys claiming 100% but doing heavy manual labor and they talk about making claims of issues they don’t have for more money. Obviously you get a bad injury you get something, but it seems like it’s turned into another racket for people similar to how people treat welfare.

    There’s a financial channel on YouTube and every guest who’s a vet is “100%” disabled but most were POGs

    How do y’all feel about all the disability stuff?
     
    The system is extremely "YMMV" as far as I can tell-- really depends on the person that sees you at the VA. I know a guy that broke a bone in his hand and got a 100% rating, another that broke a finger and got 60%, and I know people that are almost completely broken (back, hips, knees, shoulders) with 0-20% ratings.

    I got 20% for hearing, back, and broken bones in my feet (really got off pretty light for injuries, honestly for being in the infantry) and I've had several people tell me that I could easily get more and there are very few things that I care less about, personally. If there wasn't a pipeline to get guys to the VA on EAS I probably wouldn't have a rating, and IMO the post-9/11 GI bill is an insane benefit. Most of my problems can be handled with stretching and a chiropractor. I think I've got more than enough and the process was pretty seamless in my situation. However, I know some old guys that had to fight for years and years to get anything after they got F'd up pretty bad. I'm happy for people that genuinely need it to get help, but the shitbag whiners will always milk the system. I don't know what you do about it.
     
    Yeah, but OP, go talk to any ground combat guy and they will tell you how hard it is to get the VA to recognize anything. Only about 20 percent of those guys actually have an easy time. The rest have to fight like hell for it.

    And the VA actively tries to fuck you over.

    I went in for my initial evaluation right as I got out and the doc pressed and prodded my knees and looked me dead in the eyes and said, "Your knees are COMPLETELY shot."

    At 26 years old.

    And immediately rated me at 0% because I could still move around. Didn't ask me if it hurt, which it sure as hell did. Just asked me if I could move. I said yes. He fucked me.
     
    I have a neighbor who is on 100% disability. He had the city paint handicap parking in front of his apartment building so he would have a designated parking spot.

    He works under his vehicles all the time in the rear garage and rides his bicycle all the time looking athletic for his age.
     
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    The system is extremely "YMMV" as far as I can tell-- really depends on the person that sees you at the VA. I know a guy that broke a bone in his hand and got a 100% rating, another that broke a finger and got 60%, and I know people that are almost completely broken (back, hips, knees, shoulders) with 0-20% ratings.

    I got 20% for hearing, back, and broken bones in my feet (really got off pretty light for injuries, honestly for being in the infantry) and I've had several people tell me that I could easily get more and there are very few things that I care less about, personally. If there wasn't a pipeline to get guys to the VA on EAS I probably wouldn't have a rating, and IMO the post-9/11 GI bill is an insane benefit. Most of my problems can be handled with stretching and a chiropractor. I think I've got more than enough and the process was pretty seamless in my situation. However, I know some old guys that had to fight for years and years to get anything after they got F'd up pretty bad. I'm happy for people that genuinely need it to get help, but the shitbag whiners will always milk the system. I don't know what you do about it.
    I don’t think you’re saying anything to me to preface this.

    Don’t get me wrong guys that get blown up or have other life changing injuries definitely deserve help, the fingers and shit are insane.
     
    Yeah, but OP, go talk to any ground combat guy and they will tell you how hard it is to get the VA to recognize anything. Only about 20 percent of those guys actually have an easy time. The rest have to fight like hell for it.

    And the VA actively tries to fuck you over.

    I went in for my initial evaluation right as I got out and the doc pressed and prodded my knees and looked me dead in the eyes and said, "Your knees are COMPLETELY shot."

    At 26 years old.

    And immediately rated me at 0% because I could still move around. Didn't ask me if it hurt, which it sure as hell did. Just asked me if I could move. I said yes. He fucked me.
    That’s part of the problem I’ve worked with guys who’ve been shot multiple times at close range and blown up, but the guy who fell acting retarded gets thousands a month for life.
     
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    I know people that are almost completely broken
    What is odd about the VA & spinal stuff is unless you have Ankylosis the most you’ll get is 10%. Thing is a person can have all kinds of shit wrong with their spine that makes life damn near unbearable but not have ankylosis.

    Ask any Aviator who wore a CVC helmet all the time how much fun cervical spinal shit is.
     
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    What is odd about the VA & spinal stuff is unless you have Ankylosis the most you’ll get is 10%. Thing is a person can have all kinds of shit wrong with their spine that makes life damn near unbearable but not have ankylosis.


    Yeah, their criteria for what counts is absolutely stupid for most things.
     
    I keep seeing videos where people teach Vets how to get more disability, how is this open fraud tolerated? People get pissed off at government spending but every cook and supply guy has 100% disability. I’ve worked with guys claiming 100% but doing heavy manual labor and they talk about making claims of issues they don’t have for more money. Obviously you get a bad injury you get something, but it seems like it’s turned into another racket for people similar to how people treat welfare.

    There’s a financial channel on YouTube and every guest who’s a vet is “100%” disabled but most were POGs

    How do y’all feel about all the disability stuff?

    Man, I get irritated about a lot of disability claims.

    I myself am 100%. It is for my back, knees, shoulders, ankle and wrist. I had 7 surgeries while I was in. That pales in comparison to some of my friends who are missing body parts etc... I am blessed, but there were 932 pages in my medical record when I hung it up.

    You also USED to (probably still do) get 50% for sleep apnea and PTSD. Those are the two biggest abuses in the VA as far as a disability rating IMO. The PTSD thing gets me... not because some don't deserve it, but because so many claim it and beat the system. Many young men claim this because you can fake it 'til you make it if you've done a single combat deployment. That's "combat deployment" too... not "I was in combat". Big difference.

    ^ There's a 75 year old man who comes into my wife's clinic and gets 50% disability for PTSD from his one deployment in 'Nam. His deployment? ... On an aircraft carrier miles off the coast the entire time. Man, that gripes my butt. He won't shut up about it either.

    Sexual assault-related PTSD is off the charts for females. Again, no proof is actually needed, and 80% were reported and the victim couldn't remember exactly where and when, and who... but it happened. That is the whole Brett Kavanaugh Supreme Court allegations thing again... but there is no Brett Kavanaugh, just a "victim", story and no witnesses to corroborate. There are also a large number of reports where the victim chose to leave out all of that information (they do actually have that option). ***This is not to take away from the actual cases... even one is one too many.

    ^ However, with a SA report comes a guarantee of 50% disability if PTSD is claimed. The women know that, and it is abused more than pregnancy to get out of a deployment. * Maybe some of this has changed in the last 7 years? Up until 2018, that was the standard though.

    Dudes usually start requesting sleep studies to get that 50% for sleep apnea.

    My M-I-L got 50% for a hysterectomy. She's 100% total too... and did all of one deployment to New Orleans for Katrina relief (She was USPHS).

    Been around long enough that I can share pages of examples of questionable ratings, but I'll cut it short with a 'that ain't right'.

    There are a lot of VA Facebook groups where coaching is done. I don't agree with it.

    *****

    So am I going to scrutinize every veteran with a second paycheck? No. I'll bet good money that the financial burden on the U.S. taxpayer from some questionable VA claims is a tiny little drop in the bucket compared to welfare, social security, and citizenship frauds... not together, but each individually. That's where the focus should go first. Then we can hunt down dudes on the golf course and revisit their claim paperwork.
     
    I don’t think you’re saying anything to me to preface this.

    I don't follow?

    I guess a more direct statement to the question in the OP is that I think it's extremely sleezy to chase disability rating by lying or faking injury or implying it's worse than it is (especially if a fucken YT video gives you the bright idea...). Also understand that the system at a baseline is a shotgun pattern of results for similar levels of injury.
     
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    What is odd about the VA & spinal stuff is unless you have Ankylosis the most you’ll get is 10%. Thing is a person can have all kinds of shit wrong with their spine that makes life damn near unbearable but not have ankylosis.

    Ask any Aviator who wore a CVC helmet all the time how much fun cervical spinal shit is.

    Believe it or not, I actually ended up with 40% for my spine IIRC. It was a combination from two discectomies, stenosis from trauma on both sides (I'm so lucky), and the development of traumatic scoliosis.

    I do understand that my rating is the exception.

    Now I am going to have to go dig to find my rating paperwork again, I'm curious.
     
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    I don't follow?

    I guess a more direct statement to the question in the OP is that I think it's extremely sleezy to chase disability rating by lying or faking injury or implying it's worse than it is (especially if a fucken YT video gives you the bright idea...). Also understand that the system at a baseline is a shotgun pattern of results for similar levels of injury.
    Just was making sure you knew I wasn’t being a dick or something
     
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    IMO it is like everything else these days, people feel that they are entitled to free stuff. My Dad was a WWII vet he refused to use the VA because he believed there were people that truly needed it and he did not want to reduce their benefits. He had good health insurance and felt he was taken care of and paid the bill.
    My BIL basically stubbed his toe and is at the VA every month and on disability always trying to get more out of the system.
    There are vets that need and deserve it and there are ones that abuse it as there is in every system. People are broken not the systems.
     
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    I keep seeing videos where people teach Vets how to get more disability, how is this open fraud tolerated? People get pissed off at government spending but every cook and supply guy has 100% disability. I’ve worked with guys claiming 100% but doing heavy manual labor and they talk about making claims of issues they don’t have for more money. Obviously you get a bad injury you get something, but it seems like it’s turned into another racket for people similar to how people treat welfare.

    There’s a financial channel on YouTube and every guest who’s a vet is “100%” disabled but most were POGs

    How do y’all feel about all the disability stuff?
    Good point. My old friend, Lee, served 3 combat tours in Vietnam, officially stationed out of Da Nang, but actually working in other locations. Anyway, so, he came back from all that with pins in his ankles, a pin in his right hip, and a replacement kneecap on his left knee (he graduated bud?S in 1964.) Anyway, he never applied for VA benefits, no disability, never had a placard. He did it as a patriot and would have done it for free but the Navy kept paying him.

    I agree, the guys that really need it should get it. But I have a soft spot in my heart for military veterans. I could not serve, I had a medical disqualification. Otherwise I would have been in the Army. (My version of the slogan is "Be all that you can be as long as it's what we want you to be.)
     
    I have a cousin that is out of the AF on 100% disability. When I asked his Mom what disability he had she told me he has an autoimmune disorder. I stated he had that before he went in did he not disclose that to the AF. Mom says, no he did not tell them. So Jr. decides he does not want to be in the AF anymore (after 1.5 years) because he knocked up his girlfriend just before he left for basic and now wants to be home with her. Manages to parlay his pre-existing condition into a 100% disability. Now he is divorced, of course the now ex wife is the POS, but he is the stellar daddy. He also made a statement to me about how cool it is to have a DV plate on his truck, said "it get's him out of tickets." I had respect for this little shit when he went in, but no more. Way more details to the story but that is the Readers Digest version.
    I aslo know 2 people (civilians) that are on SS disability, seems both can do anything but work.
     
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    I've had plenty of injuries that if service related, would be more serious than some I've seen that got va benefits and medical discharges. Had a good hand on our hill, accidentally cut his hand, lost feeling in his thumb. Hated to see him go, but he went back to the rear to get treatment, they sent him to Japan and then gave him a medical discharge. He was a good man. I did the exact same thing, long before I went int he service. Still to this day, 56 years later, still have no felling in my thumb. Completely usable, if I don't think about it, I never notice it. But the issue and point is,

    Around the army medical, it goes crazy. VA is worse. I have not made any attempt to use any VA services. As with typical government stuff, it was strings that are hard to cut. Plus, it's a hundred miles to the nearest VA facility. Basically a total waste.

    But then, being a Vietnam Veteran, it was decades, before I would even tell people I was in the U S Army, or any service. Now, everyone wants to be a Vietnam vet. Where the hell were you bluenthal, when the shit was hitting the fan.
     
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    I had two young brothers in wheelchairs. They were normal kids that would suffer and waste away in their teens- 20s. I was with the first one when he died. It was horrible. I could not get home fast enough for the second one, years later. I’ll never forgive myself.

    I guess I have a different idea about what “fully disabled” means.
     
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    I’m literally surrounded by “100% disabled” dudes — one is a BJJ instructor at a local gym. Another is an active firefighter. Another has a gardening obsession. Another has a small landscaping business.

    I stopped thinking about it years ago.
    I see your point.

    However when I was still in we had a soldier that was gang raped by several fellow soldiers (thanks Barrack Obama) after a set up detail he was sent to at Graf. CID arrested all the perpetrators. I was only made aware of this info due to the position I had at the time requiring all the background on all the Companies UCMJ type stuff. CDR and I had to accompany him to all his appointments to Landstuhl and CID interviews. Eventually we was to discharged because he was so fucked up in the head afterwards . I truly hope the VA gave him a high disability for the internal and mental trauma he suffered. By all external appearances he probably looked as normal as the individuals you mentioned. But inside he was completely destroyed. He never served a day in combat either.
     
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    Man, I get irritated about a lot of disability claims.

    I myself am 100%. It is for my back, knees, shoulders, ankle and wrist. I had 7 surgeries while I was in. That pales in comparison to some of my friends who are missing body parts etc... I am blessed, but there were 932 pages in my medical record when I hung it up.

    You also USED to (probably still do) get 50% for sleep apnea and PTSD. Those are the two biggest abuses in the VA as far as a disability rating IMO. The PTSD thing gets me... not because some don't deserve it, but because so many claim it and beat the system. Many young men claim this because you can fake it 'til you make it if you've done a single combat deployment. That's "combat deployment" too... not "I was in combat". Big difference.

    ^ There's a 75 year old man who comes into my wife's clinic and gets 50% disability for PTSD from his one deployment in 'Nam. His deployment? ... On an aircraft carrier miles off the coast the entire time. Man, that gripes my butt. He won't shut up about it either.

    Sexual assault-related PTSD is off the charts for females. Again, no proof is actually needed, and 80% were reported and the victim couldn't remember exactly where and when, and who... but it happened. That is the whole Brett Kavanaugh Supreme Court allegations thing again... but there is no Brett Kavanaugh, just a "victim", story and no witnesses to corroborate. There are also a large number of reports where the victim chose to leave out all of that information (they do actually have that option). ***This is not to take away from the actual cases... even one is one too many.

    ^ However, with a SA report comes a guarantee of 50% disability if PTSD is claimed. The women know that, and it is abused more than pregnancy to get out of a deployment. * Maybe some of this has changed in the last 7 years? Up until 2018, that was the standard though.

    Dudes usually start requesting sleep studies to get that 50% for sleep apnea.

    My M-I-L got 50% for a hysterectomy. She's 100% total too... and did all of one deployment to New Orleans for Katrina relief (She was USPHS).

    Been around long enough that I can share pages of examples of questionable ratings, but I'll cut it short with a 'that ain't right'.

    There are a lot of VA Facebook groups where coaching is done. I don't agree with it.

    *****

    So am I going to scrutinize every veteran with a second paycheck? No. I'll bet good money that the financial burden on the U.S. taxpayer from some questionable VA claims is a tiny little drop in the bucket compared to welfare, social security, and citizenship frauds... not together, but each individually. That's where the focus should go first. Then we can hunt down dudes on the golf course and revisit their claim paperwork.
    One thing about the sleep apnea, if they had it for a long time then a good possibility exists that the VA won’t have to be paying disability to the service member for to long, given the damage it does over time. Pulmonologist or Cardiologist could probably explain long term effects of it going untreated better than I.
     
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    How do y’all feel about all the disability stuff?
    Like all programs, the intended effect always gets gamed. Gaming the system has been an American pastime for so long most think it's their right & duty. Removing all the system gamers from America, would be a great start at cleaning up.
     
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    I would be more worred about hood rats on section 8 getting free rent and $3,000 a month EBT, you can see them doing EBT hauls on you tube and tic tok. edit to add hood rats also get free phones, free internet and few other free shit that no vet gets.

    I’d bet the VA vetting process is exponentially more invasive that welfare/snap/ebt, whatever.

    Don’t know if it is still the case, but in my day they told us during retirement out-processing to expect the first submission to be automatically rejected. Had a buddy fairly fucked up in VN. He was treated by the VA, but they wouldn’t give him disability.
     
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    The VA plays dirty games to fuck you over too. They try to tell you you have to see their doctors even if you already saw one and got all the documentation done because if you see their doctors then their doctors can write you up as if you are fine and deny you.

    I had to get a letter from an attorney to get the VA to stop lying to me telling me I had to go back and see their doctors before they would process my claim.

    It is just an endlessly dirty system that actively tries to screw you.

    Don't rush to blame the vets first before the VA.

    Both sides have their problems, but the VA causes most of the problems on both sides.
     
    My experience. It's harder for older veterans to claim disability. One reason is electronic vs paper documentation. Try and prove service connection and have no records to back it up. It's not like it didn't happen or you didn't go seek treatment, typically it's just not documented or the record retained.

    Modern era. Electronic records, you go to med it's documented. You document it, you retain copies of records. Much easier to prove service connection.

    Federal Gov, 25 years and I never successfully navigated workman's comp. I got no significant guidance from my agency other than contact DOL. Thats a crap show. Just got frustrated and used my own insurance.

    There are people that game the system. There is also a large percentage that have valid claims the government never assists.

    I do love it when I read a story of the VA nabbing someone for fraud after they post something on social media they claim they can't do and receive disability compensation for.
     
    I know plenty of people that brag about their disability that wasn’t service connected but they’re getting paid for it. Doing stupid shit as a teenager and getting paid. Perfect scam.

    I think there’s a lot of rubber stampers in the system and then there’s the others that think you need to be missing body parts for 10%.
     
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    I have a cousin that is out of the AF on 100% disability. When I asked his Mom what disability he had she told me he has an autoimmune disorder. I stated he had that before he went in did he not disclose that to the AF. Mom says, no he did not tell them. So Jr. decides he does not want to be in the AF anymore (after 1.5 years) because he knocked up his girlfriend just before he left for basic and now wants to be home with her. Manages to parlay his pre-existing condition into a 100% disability. Now he is divorced, of course the now ex wife is the POS, but he is the stellar daddy. He also made a statement to me about how cool it is to have a DV plate on his truck, said "it get's him out of tickets." I had respect for this little shit when he went in, but no more. Way more details to the story but that is the Readers Digest version.
    I aslo know 2 people (civilians) that are on SS disability, seems both can do anything but work.
    That boy needs an ass whippin
     
    My experience. It's harder for older veterans to claim disability. One reason is electronic vs paper documentation. Try and prove service connection and have no records to back it up. It's not like it didn't happen or you didn't go seek treatment, typically it's just not documented or the record retained.

    Modern era. Electronic records, you go to med it's documented. You document it, you retain copies of records. Much easier to prove service connection.

    Federal Gov, 25 years and I never successfully navigated workman's comp. I got no significant guidance from my agency other than contact DOL. Thats a crap show. Just got frustrated and used my own insurance.

    There are people that game the system. There is also a large percentage that have valid claims the government never assists.

    I do love it when I read a story of the VA nabbing someone for fraud after they post something on social media they claim they can't do and receive disability compensation for.

    When I first applied for medical (15 years post retirement), I was rejected…no record of service. Talked to someone on the phone and asked would this affect my pension check.

    Sent a copy of my DD214 and was eventually approved. Took quite a bit longer than the rejection.
     
    I was told that because of my exposure to Agent Orange in the 1960's, I could get some kind of VA benefit.
    No interest in going through whatever the VA process is, I'm not sick now, don't need any $$$.
     
    From what I understand years ago it was nothing but an uphill battle for everyone including those seriously injured or permanently handicapped in combat to get a realistic rating. People fought hard for years to fix that. However with fixing it, they made it far too easy for those that didn’t do anything to get a higher rating or even max it out. Nowadays you see crazy examples of people who don’t even finish initial entry training claiming ptsd or whatever they can and getting 60-100%.

    While I do think the system needs to be fixed to prevent as much of the fraud and abuse as possible, I’m glad it’s not what it was years ago. No system is ever perfect, currently I think it’s MOSTLY better than it has ever been.
     
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    Fifteen years ago I retired from the ANG. I wasn't going to bother with the VA because the war was on and lots of guys worse off than me. Unit recommended I get some stuff on a claim. 180 days later they denied I had ever served. 27 fucking years and this was how it started.

    It took ten years to finish the first part. The VA average was 568 days between replies. After they reply, the veteran has 30 days to appeal or they consider it settled. You appeal and they have another 5-600 days to respond. One day, a decade later, I was right and they paid part of the back pay and decided to recoup money the DOD never asked for from my pay.

    Two years to the fucking day later, on a random Saturday, the VA called to say, "Fuck you we are taking away your ratings". Again a fight and an appeal and after they took my ratings away. It was another fight. I went all the way to the US Court of Appeals and got everything back again, permanently. That took another two fucking years. On my case it says, " This ruling is not to be used as a precedent."

    I use some of their services and see plenty of fuck offs. I met an Army supply chick who had ptsd from too much BBC in the war zone, 90% rating. I had a buddy who I helped. He got 100% rating, he is a wildland firefighter and doing fine. His shoulder replacement made him rich. Its better than new.

    Coaching helps. Why? Because the fucking VA docs will lie to your face about what they need to see. They will twist you into crippling positions to deny you bennies.

    I also know two guys murdered by the VA. One was a paratrooper who had broken his neck landing in trees on a high wind day. After being medically retired he hobbled for 15 years. His neck plates and screws had worn and he went in for xrays. The radiologist refused to let him off the table, he was a millimeter from severing his spine. He was admitted and the VA agreed to pay for his surgery. Orthopedic docs saved him and the VA said, " Fuck him, we ain't paying shit." He ended up with $200,000 in medical bills for a 100% service connected injury.

    Bill collectors hounded him and the pain was bothering him and he couldn't even hike the woods without fear of re-injuring himself. He killed himself over it. Two weeks after the VA murdered him, they paid the bill.
     
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    I live in a military base town and have many military friends, both active and retired. It seems like every other vehicle in town has a DV plate. I'm thinking "There can't be that many disabled Vets". My soldier buddies say that people join the military and after a year or two claim PTSD and get a "minimum" of 4K/mo, and they can still work a full time job. I pass them every morning on the interstate at 4:30AM heading to work. Anyway, for the actual disabled Vets I say more power to you, that's what this disability is for. For the scammers/gamers I say shame on you. And I'm also aware that civilians do the same thing. I'm just a civilian tax slave taking my happy a$$ to work every day to support my weapons hobby :)
     
    I live in a military base town and have many military friends, both active and retired. It seems like every other vehicle in town has a DV plate. I'm thinking "There can't be that many disabled Vets". My soldier buddies say that people join the military and after a year or two claim PTSD and get a "minimum" of 4K/mo, and they can still work a full time job. I pass them every morning on the interstate at 4:30AM heading to work. Anyway, for the actual disabled Vets I say more power to you, that's what this disability is for. For the scammers/gamers I say shame on you. And I'm also aware that civilians do the same thing. I'm just a civilian tax slave taking my happy a$$ to work every day to support my weapons hobby :)

    $4K/month is a little extreme (but doable). Even if they got something else tacked on (knee injury etc...) and got, say, 60%, that would be between about $1,400 - 1,800/month. But yes, the fraudulent PTSD claim and payout is real. You actually can get 100% for PTSD nowadays. I think that they capped it at 50% for quite a while, but went to 100% possibility about a decade ago (I'm no expert, so if someone knows better, please chime in). For 100% you'd have to basically be in and out of the hospital or mental institution. For 50%, you can bullshit your way through pretty easily (claim nightmares and panic attacks, and state that you have a hard time with relationships).

    As you mentioned though, you CAN get $4K/month with a 100% rating. That is a very real payout. I am a member of a "disabled vet" Facebook group. 90% of what is posted are just stupid memes (I love stupid memes). But is always that 10% who is looking to get a leg up, and they always ask questions about how to get their rating bumped up.

    My best friend was 90% for quite a few years. He has two purple hearts, but one of those he earned out of stupidity (you can't turn around in the same spot on a mechanized patrol every time - that's where they know to put the landmine after you make your predictable turn around for the 6th time that day). He finally got his 100% after working with an advocacy group. He's basically a sign-language guy these days and got his brains scrambled well enough that it will affect him the rest of his life. He and I went through Recruit Training, MCT, and Assault Amphibious Schools together, and were in the same battalion for about 10 years of our careers, so I've known him since day 1.

    ^ I don't mind dudes like him. It is the guys like I had last week that called our clinic and wanted a "disabled veteran discount". The receptionist handed me the phone and by the time I got done just talking to the guy, he shared that he got a hernia in basic (Army), and elected to go home for surgery, and just never tried again. His version made him sound much tougher though... Apparently he still got a rating however. That one was an easy "no". :LOL: