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powder thrower

T

taseal

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 18, 2011
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My least favorite part of reloading is probably having to individually weight every damn charge....

I have an older RCBS electronic scale donated by a member from here to me (very generous!) it can actually take on a dispenser, but it's kind of pricey for me right now... (http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=RC98999)

so I was curious if there is a decent/repetitive thrower there to simplify things for me that you can reccomend

thanks!
 
Re: powder thrower

Powder "measures" <span style="font-style: italic"> throw </span> charges.

With that out of the way, the answer is it really depends on what powder you want to use. Some meter great, others ok, some like crap, and it has little to do with the measure itself.

For example, Varget meters poorly. 8208 meters ok, and 2000MR meters great. For Varget, figure +/- .5gr or so.

That said, about any measure will work pretty well. Meanwhile, some highend measures cost more than the dispenser you linked to.

Personally, I use an RCBS Uniflow, a Hornady LnL, and the Dillon measures. All work about the same, with the RCBS and Hornady being a bit better than Dillon.
 
Re: powder thrower

oops, forgot to mention I use H4350 but I'm looking into .308 stuff as well, which will probably end up being varget
 
Re: powder thrower

I was wondering if it was my lee pp thrower or varget, now I know. Was gonna try 8028 soon
 
Re: powder thrower

All measures do about the same. The longer and thicker the grains of powder, the worse the accuracy of the measure. Fine grains and ball powders work best through the mechanism. +/- .002 is doing very well.
 
Re: powder thrower

In my experience the harrells are as good as it gets. I had a premium harrells that could throw very consistent. It still required good technique. As far as + or -.1 you will have to weigh each charge.
 
Re: powder thrower

for the last 10+ years i have used a harrell. http://www.harrellsprec.com/. I throw my charges for 1,2, and 300 yrds and I throw and trickle my loads for mid and long range matches at 6,8,9,1000. If you want top of the line throw and go you have to get a prometheus. http://www.6mmbr.com/prometheus.html after you see the price using a trickler doesn't seem like that much of a task.

arborpro
 
Re: powder thrower

SO I guess, I will never find the accuracy of a charge from a thrower vs a trickler.
 
Re: powder thrower

I guess I could get this. I already have the matching scale for it so...

http://pact.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=126

would you guys say go ahead and get the PACT dispenser, or should I go for the RCBS one? that seems the most popular. but looks like it's mainly because of speed. since I already have the scale for the pact, and probably use a coupon from midway, I could get that one for around 120 bucks!
 
Re: powder thrower

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: taseal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SO I guess, I will never find the accuracy of a charge from a thrower vs a trickler.

</div></div>

The accuracy of the charge is a whole hell of a lot easier to achieve by throwing low and trickling up, but there are a few people who can just throw charges with extreme consistency, but not many, in this world we live in of electronic this and that, old school balance beam scales will always be far more consistent and accurate over time versus electronic scales, especially the consumer grade stuff like Chargemasters and what not. I am very lucky to able to afford a Gen 2 Prometheus, but if I couldn't I would measure my charges with a tuned balance beam scale from Scott Parker.
 
Re: powder thrower

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">in this world we live in of electronic this and that, old school balance beam scales will always be far more consistent and accurate over time versus electronic scales, especially the consumer grade stuff like Chargemasters and what not.</div></div>

I have a GD-503 and it is as accurate as a balance and faster, but it is also $1K. I think my next purchase will be a Prometheus, but it sucks to basically have to forgo a rifle to afford it. My back will thank me. I hate hunching over to throw and weigh charges.

The Sartorius AY-123 is ok. It drifts, but it will get you within a kernel or two for around $300.
 
Re: powder thrower

Again Turbo beats me to the punch with the thrower thing. I don't know why but I really don't like measures being called throwers.

Using a powder measure is an art not a science. I can throw Varget with my 25 year old Uniflow with surprising accuracy but I employ a few tricks. I do NOT use a baffle in my measure and I spend as much as 15 minutes setting it up. I throw charge after charge while tweaking to perfection, until my powder gets a uniform amount of settling in the hopper. Keep the hopper topped off to that level. I believe this also slickens things up a bit. You must be consistent in your motion, that is of utmost importance! The easier a powder measures the less setup time. Anything more coarse than Varget is a no go, simply throw light and trickle up but the more time you spend setting up, ebven with the long grain powders the less you will have to trickle and ultimately the time in setup will be repaid in faster trickle time and faster weighing with the balance beam. I wouldn't use a non lab grade digital, to weigh flour to bake a cake. I have used reloading grade digitals and I am not impressed. If you want to spend a couple grand and invest in serious climate controll and a 400lb marble table then get a lab grade scale. Better yet if you have that much coin get a Prometheus.
 
Re: powder thrower

that prometheus sounds awesome, but little too much for my budget. I am already saving $$ for a GAP-10 LOL

I think I'll go with the pact dispenser. I would like the RCBS chargemaster 1500 but 130 vs 350 is something to consider as well.

well at least I decided I want an electronic dispenser instead of a volumetric dispenser in this thread
smile.gif


that being said, I don't understand the hate for 'throwing' a charge.

When I said throwing, I meant that you are throwing the lever, not the throwing a charge into a bucket lol. oh well... now I know
smile.gif
 
Re: powder thrower

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: taseal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">that prometheus sounds awesome, but little too much for my budget. I am already saving $$ for a GAP-10 LOL

I think I'll go with the pact dispenser. I would like the RCBS chargemaster 1500 but 130 vs 350 is something to consider as well.

well at least I decided I want an electronic dispenser instead of a volumetric dispenser in this thread
smile.gif


that being said, I don't understand the hate for 'throwing' a charge.

When I said throwing, I meant that you are throwing the lever, not the throwing a charge into a bucket lol. oh well... now I know
smile.gif
</div></div>

You misunderstood. You DO throw a charge with a measure. It is only incorrect to call the "measure" a thrower
smile.gif
 
Re: powder thrower

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">in this world we live in of electronic this and that, old school balance beam scales will always be far more consistent and accurate over time versus electronic scales, especially the consumer grade stuff like Chargemasters and what not.</div></div>

I have a GD-503 and it is as accurate as a balance and faster, but it is also $1K. I think my next purchase will be a Prometheus, but it sucks to basically have to forgo a rifle to afford it. My back will thank me. I hate hunching over to throw and weigh charges.

The Sartorius AY-123 is ok. It drifts, but it will get you within a kernel or two for around $300. </div></div>

Mr Mayfield it's so worth it, I highly recommend picking it up in person, Brand is one of those few truly smart people who can dream something up and make it himself, which he does in his shop, it's takes him about 80 hours per machine to make, I waited many months for mine, and I expect the wait to be longer so if you want one order it now, and start saving your pennies.
 
Re: powder thrower

Is it half down when you order? My wife would kill me... I still have a bit of money left in the gun budget, but I will have to wait until next year to get it renewed.
 
Re: powder thrower

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">must i post THE picture again ? </div></div>
Please do.
 
Re: powder thrower

taseal,

You could get the dispenser for your scale, but know that the process is slow. A powder measure (cheap ass lee) and a Omega powder trickler will be a lot faster and have the same accuracy with your scale. I have moved away from my chargemaster because of the speed and overthrow problem. I am loading more accurately and much faster.

I certainly wouldn't knock the Prometheus, some of the very best shooters that I know of load with one, but for many of us it is just not an option.
 
Re: powder thrower

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Again Turbo beats me to the punch with the thrower thing. I don't know why but I really don't like measures being called throwers.

Using a powder measure is an art not a science. I can throw Varget with my 25 year old Uniflow with surprising accuracy but I employ a few tricks. I do NOT use a baffle in my measure and I spend as much as 15 minutes setting it up. I throw charge after charge while tweaking to perfection, until my powder gets a uniform amount of settling in the hopper. Keep the hopper topped off to that level. I believe this also slickens things up a bit. You must be consistent in your motion, that is of utmost importance! The easier a powder measures the less setup time. Anything more coarse than Varget is a no go, simply throw light and trickle up but the more time you spend setting up, ebven with the long grain powders the less you will have to trickle and ultimately the time in setup will be repaid in faster trickle time and faster weighing with the balance beam. I wouldn't use a non lab grade digital, to weigh flour to bake a cake. I have used reloading grade digitals and I am not impressed. If you want to spend a couple grand and invest in serious climate controll and a 400lb marble table then get a lab grade scale. Better yet if you have that much coin get a Prometheus. </div></div>

I saved you the trouble! :)

I agree 100% that technique is HUGE to achieve consistent results with a measure. I also have an old, OLD RCBS Uniflow, and have thrown thousands and thousands of charges of Varget with it.

Recently I performed a statistical study with th uniflow and Varget.

One test run, I "wasted" the thrown charge, thus allowing the hopper to deplete throughout the 40-sample test.

The other test run, I returned the charge back to the hopper after weighing it, thus keeping a constant hopper level throughout the test.

To my amazement, allowing the hopper to drain produced STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT better result!

I don't have my data in front of me at the moment, but IIRC, the difference was an extreme spread of ~.4 (draining) and .55gr (constant level).
 
Re: powder thrower

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: taseal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess I could get this. I already have the matching scale for it so...

http://pact.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=126

would you guys say go ahead and get the PACT dispenser, or should I go for the RCBS one? that seems the most popular. but looks like it's mainly because of speed. since I already have the scale for the pact, and probably use a coupon from midway, I could get that one for around 120 bucks! </div></div>

ta,
You're getting alot of advice here, and I'm not going to try sway your decision on which method to go with.
But I will tell you not to buy the RCBS dispenser you linked to in your op. It was made by Pact, and discontinued a number of years ago. I can't believe they are still for sale. The Pact system you linked to, and the RCBS system are a "POS". I'm sure someone will try and debuke this, but RCBS quit marketing it and brought out the chargemaster for a reason.
In a conversation I had with an RCBS tech when I was considering buying the chargemaster, I mentioned they should have a trade in program for us idiots that bought the old system, and he totally agreed. He admited it too, the link up devices sucked.
So my advice is to save your coin until you can get a decent setup. I doubt H4350 is going to meter well out of "any" brand dispenser, unless you throw under and trickle up, which is fine.

And a set of scale check weights are paramount with a digital scale, just to make sure you know where it is at.
 
Re: powder thrower

So what it's this Omega trickler? I'm looking from my phone, and it looks to be a manual trickler
 
Re: powder thrower

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: taseal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess I could get this. I already have the matching scale for it so...

http://pact.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=126

would you guys say go ahead and get the PACT dispenser, or should I go for the RCBS one? that seems the most popular. but looks like it's mainly because of speed. since I already have the scale for the pact, and probably use a coupon from midway, I could get that one for around 120 bucks! </div></div>

ta,
You're getting alot of advice here, and I'm not going to try sway your decision on which method to go with.
But I will tell you not to buy the RCBS dispenser you linked to in your op. It was made by Pact, and discontinued a number of years ago. I can't believe they are still for sale. The Pact system you linked to, and the RCBS system are a "POS". I'm sure someone will try and debuke this, but RCBS quit marketing it and brought out the chargemaster for a reason.
In a conversation I had with an RCBS tech when I was considering buying the chargemaster, I mentioned they should have a trade in program for us idiots that bought the old system, and he totally agreed. He admited it too, the link up devices sucked.
So my advice is to save your coin until you can get a decent setup. I doubt H4350 is going to meter well out of "any" brand dispenser, unless you throw under and trickle up, which is fine.

And a set of scale check weights are paramount with a digital scale, just to make sure you know where it is at. </div></div>

Thanks man... Good info. Haven't heard anyone hating on the pact though.I'm looking into the omega.

I just hate individually weighing each charge with scoops.
 
Re: powder thrower

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Turbo. Do you run a baffle in the hopper? </div></div>

Nope, sure don't!

Another point on measure technique:

My statistical study began with my uniflow set where I always had it, for throwing 45.5gr Varget. It was set at my "eyeball" average, meaning the average seemed to be 45.5gr.

Well, after throwing 40 charges and calculating the ACTUAL mean, I learned it was 45.7gr.

If you're going to set a measure to throw a lot of charges, I think it's worthwhile to set your measure by throwing & weighing 10-20 charges and calculating your mean, and adjusting as necessary.

Math works!
 
Re: powder thrower

The critical question we have that no one seems to have an answer to is: Does +-0.1 grain (extreme spread of 0.2grain), which is achievable with the inexpensive electronic scales (and probably balance beam scales as well), does this much variance matter in group size? Or do the "other factors" swamp the difference?

IOW, is it worth the effort to get more accurate on weight?
 
Re: powder thrower

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniperaviator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The critical question we have that no one seems to have an answer to is: Does +-0.1 grain (extreme spread of 0.2grain), which is achievable with the inexpensive electronic scales (and probably balance beam scales as well), does this much variance matter in group size? Or do the "other factors" swamp the difference?

IOW, is it worth the effort to get more accurate on weight? </div></div>

I have no interest in a pissing contest here, really I don't. What inexpensive scale gives an actual honest +/-0.1 accuracy? I know a good balance beam will even with a 10deg temp swing in the loading room. I don't think a cheap electronic scale can do that. Call me a crusty old throwback that doesn't trust new fangled modern conveniences if you like. I still fail to see the convenience of an electronic scale over a balance beam and I know I can trust a good tuned, properly cared for balance beam.
If you have properly tested your load for OCW then .2 will not matter much depending on some changing factors. Obviously .2 means far more to the 300AAC than it does to the 338Lapua. Your distance you use the ammo is also another factor. Long range ammo for me must be trickled precise within .1 and if you know how to read a balance beam you know what .1 looks like on the pointer.
I throw my IHMSA charges of Varget for half scale directly from the Uniflow. My shootoff charges are trickled and weighed. Maximum distance for IHMSA is 200M...with a pistol. With these loads I have tuned them specifically for 200M not for their maximum range potential. I shoot 40x40 on a consistent basis.
 
Re: powder thrower

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get a Balance Beam Scale! </div></div>

I'm willing to give up .1 +/- to sacrifice not to use a beam.

just easier to electronic scales. especially now that I'm looking at these jewelery scales... That wasn't something I thought of

a jewelery scale with a omega trickler sounds pretty good right now.

but the automation of the dispensers might make my life easier. however, I see that the pact is off as much as .2 which is not too big, but not too small. with OCW .2 is tolerable since I'm not a bench rest shooter...
 
Re: powder thrower

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/US1FsUiFNgU"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/US1FsUiFNgU" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
 
Re: powder thrower

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/US1FsUiFNgU"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/US1FsUiFNgU" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object> </div></div>

don't get it...

 
Re: powder thrower

As mentioned earlier i use a RCBS 10/10 scale with a rcbs hand trickler with a harrell thrower. when setup correctly you can crank out very cosistent loads. now i dont know what the best scale in the world will tell about what the acutal wieght is, or how consistent they are. in reality i don't realy care. i use the information for my scale for a reference point for future use. But the following must be achieved. Is the load safe (pressure) is the velcoity at the speed i need. can i open the bolt esaily. and are the results at distance to my satisfaction. the best powder measure out there may just be a good chronogragh, so get one.
i can get all the above with the tools i have. and i belive i can get those loads without wasting much time at the bench.
arborpro
 
Re: powder thrower

I just use a RCBS Powder measure and a Gempor 500 scale. The scale reads to .05 grains. Close enough for me. The Gempro works good enough, way more repeatable than the Dillon, Pact (PosingAsCertifiedTrash) or the RCBS scale.

Not as expensive as some of the others but works great!

If you buy one of the Gempro scales, they have a lifetime warranty. Save your paperwork because they only last about a year and a half.
 
Re: powder thrower

<span style="font-style: italic">"My back will thank me. I hate hunching over to throw and weigh charges."</span>

Carter, et al, build a sturdy wood box or shelf for your beam scale and trickler to set them about chin high AND back maybe 16" from the bench front for your normal working position, then you can see it easily see and reach it without bending over at all. And have your measure's stand firmly mounted near the right side of the scale too; your back will thank you and precisely dealing with powder will be faster too! (The only place worse for placing a beam scale than ON the bench top is UNDER the bench top.)
 
Re: powder thrower

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">must i post THE picture again ? </div></div>
Please do.</div></div>
ScottyinPrometheusHeavenjpg3.jpg
 
Re: powder thrower

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: taseal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My least favorite part of reloading is probably having to individually weight every damn charge....

I have an older RCBS electronic scale donated by a member from here to me (very generous!) it can actually take on a dispenser, but it's kind of pricey for me right now... (http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=RC98999)

so I was curious if there is a decent/repetitive thrower there to simplify things for me that you can recommend

thanks! </div></div>

I just sold the powder thrower you referenced along with the scale. It served me well for about 15 years but in the end it was too slow. I now have a chargemaster which is much better. Neither one measures large extruded powder well (H4350, H4831sc), but the smaller extruded powders like Vihtavouri N110, ball and flake meter very well.

The older version would take about three minutes to throw a 90 grain charge, where the chargemaster takes about 25 seconds.

Also, you may want to rethink your tolerances: even in a case as large as .338 Lapua, .1 grain can equate to a 9 fps difference in your average velocity.
 
Re: powder thrower

I did what fuzzball suggests; built a 'beam' out of 2x6. Now my scale and trickler are about 10" above my bench top. My back is much happier and it speeds up the process considerably.
 
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