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Sidearms & Scatterguns CCW for Novice female shooter.

H

HathcockProtege

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 20, 2010
356
2
34
Central PA
Hey all,
I'm looking to buy a handgun for my fiance to carry in the near future. My prerequisites are:

9mm
Small enough to carry comfortably all day, every day.
No external safeties.
Preferably DAO; I'm a revolver guy myself.
Durable enough to practice with fairly frequently.

She is not an experienced shooter, but since dating me has learned quickly. She is quite petite, but has done well handling the recoil of several full-size .40 SW, .45 ACP, and .357 Mag handguns, so I'm confident she can learn to handle a compact 9mm...especially if I reload some nice light plinking loads for her. I am not thrilled about the idea of her carrying in a purse, but it's better than nothing, so slightly bulky pistols may be an option.

My short list currently includes:

G26
Kel-Tec PF9

PF9 is what I'm planning on right now.

Got any suggestions? Surely there must be other options out there of which I am not thinking.

-The Kid.
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

Take her shooting with more different handgungs. Let her become comfortable with something. Then let her choose what she wants. As her fiancee, asking her "What do you think?" and "Which one would you want?" will pay political dividends in the future.
wink.gif
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

No double stacks. Look at the Kel-tec and the Ruger. Make sure she practices, as those guns are a BITCH to shoot.
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

honestly my wife had a glock compact and hated it, she has a g19 now and loves it. so much so i have to buy one for myself now cuz she wants it coated pink, lol
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

If you are a revolver guy why not take her there?

Most have smaller grips, light enough for all day carry and they have a track record of going bang with boring reliablity. A used Smith will be cheap and have better sights than a wonder gun.

Go .38 with some mid range loads that are a joy to shoot and learn on.

The tactical concerned will moan about the "terminal ballistics or wound channel statistics" but what does it matter if a more powerful caliber means a miss. .38's have stopped many aggressors short of drug hopped up Phillipino Moros.

Get her a K22 and a steel J model of her own. Watch some old Charlies Angels shows so she can see 70's era hot chicks used revolvers.
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

If she will be carrying in a purse I say give the Glock 19 a hard look.

My wife shoots my Glock 19 pretty well but she really prefers the Kahr PM9 except that the slide is hard for her to manipulate. Also, you may look at the new Shield that Smith and Wesson just released. It looks like it may be a hit in the small, slim, carry 9mm game.

Jeremy
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

I Carry the HK P30 In 40 cal. it also comes in 9mm . with changeable grips to suit the small hands. But I agree with the above if your a revolver guy get her a 38 special it's compact and easy to shoot as well .merlin45kout
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

I see it all the time. Men that try to push semi-autos on their ladies.
Most times they are way better off with a S&W 642.
Hell, I know some guys who would be better off with one.
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

I would not go over a 9mm for a new shooter and don't purchase a handgun that is too small. They are "cute" but remember the smaller gun is much harder to shoot, especially for a newer shooter.
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Take her shooting with more different handgungs. Let her become comfortable with something. Then let her choose what she wants. As her fiancee, asking her "What do you think?" and "Which one would you want?" will pay political dividends in the future.
wink.gif
</div></div>

+10000

Trying to pick a gun for someone else is difficult at best. I took my wife to Ladies Night (free range time and gun rentals) at the local range and let her try every 9mm and 380 in the cabinet. The very LAST gun I expected her to pick was a Glock 19 but that was the gun she shot best and wanted. Later on she switched to an EMP but both were a far cry from the Kahr, Bersa, or Walter that I was prepared to buy her.

Let her pick her own. Gives her some ownership and it's more likely to keep her interested in going out to shoot. The 500-600 rounds a month my wife chews up certainly leads me to believe that.
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

Thanks so much for the constructive feedback! I will do my best to get her a chance to shoot my friend's Ruger LC9 and a G19. My only hesitation about the G19 is that I want her to be able to carry it in other ways like when she jogs or isn't carrying her purse for whatever reason.

I happen to think safeties on handguns are gay, but if she really loves a handgun that happens to have one of those silly things, I might be willing to acquiesce that point since it's for her, not me.

Ideally, I would love to get her interested in revolvers, but I believe she will practice more and carry with greater frequency a gun she has selected vs. what I have decided is best. (BTW, thanks for the pointer Graham.) I'll also try to get her interested in a J-frame, but but I know she seems to prefer pistols over revolvers at this point.

-The Kid.
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

I see a trend here with a few of us. I got a Kahr K9, wife loved it and it more or less became hers. Then I got a G19... until she shot it. She liked it even better, so again it’s hers. I came across a G26 for a price I could not pass. She hasn’t shot it... yet. The downside to the G26 is the grip length, most everyone who has shot one vs. a G19 would pick the G19 for controllability and comfort. I am running it with G19 mag's with one of those mag sleeves and it fits me just about perfect now.

The polymer framed Kahr are worth a look. I have had two with steel frames and the only thing I don't like about them has been the weight. The polymer frame would alleviate much of that. FWIW, the K9 is one of the most accurate handguns I have owned excluding my scoped deer pistols.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Take her shooting with more different handgungs. Let her become comfortable with something. Then let her choose what she wants. As her fiancee, asking her "What do you think?" and "Which one would you want?" will pay political dividends in the future.
wink.gif
</div></div>

+1 to the above for more than one reason.
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

+1 For the Smith and Wesson J-frame. I own two, and they're great revolvers. Mine both have 2&1/8" barrels, are extremely compact, 5-shot, and built like a tank. I also own a few 1911's, and truly enjoy them. But, for maximum fun it's hard to beat a revolver.

My Smith's are model 60's in .357 magnum which allows me to shoot .38 specials with no problem. DA or SA. Recoil is pleasant, accuracy is very surprising, and I truly enjoy them. They even make a "Lady Smith" that is designed for women, in many configurations.

Either way, the weapon has proved itself among the LE community for a very long time. It's a great platform, and very easily concealed when compared to a Glock, (or similar, such as XD) which are among the "thickest" when the slide is compared to other pistols, even with some other striker fired pistols. This is very noticeable to me when carrying IWB. Much like a fat wallet is different than a money clip.

Glock, and a few others, with no external safety? Carrying condition one in a purse is just asking for trouble IMHO. Many LE personnel have discharged while coming out of the holster. I personally would stay away from something like that if it's going to be a purse gun..

With the revolver, It's much more difficult to have a ND incident. The model 60 for reference is about a 12-14lb, (best guess), trigger pull, making the chances of a negligent discharge nearly moot, as the gun in DA has to do a lot of work to fire accidentally. Just my $.02
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

I really like the Ruger LC9 but it does have a thumb safety, although you don't need to use it since it's a DAO. Fun to shoot, easy on the budget, thin and easy to carry, accurate for a really small gun.

Others I would consider

J-frames (really easy for new shooters plus it teaches good trigger control)

Glock 19 (I carry one myself) Best bang for buck, more difficult to hide and carry. great accuracy and fun to shoot for new shooters, simple for a semi-auto.

Smith and Wesson Shield (hardly any experiance but feels good and easy to hide
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

If she wants a semi compact enough for jogging, Sig p238 all day long. Compared to these pocket Nines, that's the only pocket-rocket I believe she will actually enjoy to shoot. Saw a wife buy a Ruger LC9, and won't ever shoot it after watching hubby & friend shoot.

Pocket Nine's are great and all, but she's gonna have to shoot it comfortably. Yes 9mm is almost twice the firepower of .380, but which is she ACTUALLY going to reach for <span style="text-decoration: underline">after</span> firing for the first time?

6+1 rds. of TAP .380 is more than needed to extinguish a threat or two. People place this giant requirement of 9mm or higher, which in sub-sub-subcompact form gets too squirrly for some people to control.



The recoil of a Glock 19 is FAR different than the recoil of a Ruger LC9.....
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

I will agree that the Sig P238 is an outstanding weapon. I am a huge fan of the 1911, own 2 of them currently, one's a Sig, other's a Colt, and I used to have a Kimber. I actually came very close to the P238 for an ankle gun, because of my familiarity with the 1911. It just made sense. In fact, I'll probably be picking one up in the near future. No other platform, imo, is easier or faster to deploy when it's time get work done, than the 1911. I'm sure others will disagree, but that's my stance.

And having said that… IMHO, a new shooter has no business with a single action semi-automatic. Like I said. Just my opinion. I can only say that I wouldn't trust my significant other to understand and remember that she cannot de-cock that weapon when it's loaded. I've seen experienced shooters do it… and they almost paid for that mistake with their lives. I would either train her to death on it, or pass it up as an option at this point with her limited experience.

As far as the Glock goes, I can just see that thing stuck in her purse, with a tube of lipstick managing it's way into the trigger guard, and the first good nudge to the purse causing a negligent discharge. I would let her shoot as many DA revolvers as possible, hoping she'd pick one over an automatic, if it's going in her purse. As for jogging… get her a can of mace, and the fastest Nike's money can buy.

My $.02
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

I would suggest a Kahr PM9 or CM9.

Both pistols have been very accurate and reliable in my experience. Also, it is small enough that it can be easily carried.

I went out shooting a while ago with some friends. One of the guys brought a female coworker that had never fired a pistol. She shot a glock 19, glock 26, beretta 92, walther p99, springfield XDM, Kahr P9, and a couple other 9mm pistols. Her favorite pistol was the Kahr.

I frequently carry my PM9 and shoot it regularly and have not experienced any malfunctions yet.

If you fiancé is uncomfortable with a semi auto, I would suggest a S&W .38 bodyguard.
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Luv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Having said that… IMHO, a new shooter has no business with a single action semi-automatic. Like I said. Just my opinion. I can only say that I wouldn't trust my significant other to understand and remember that she cannot de-cock that weapon when it's loaded. I've seen experienced shooters do it… and they almost paid for that mistake with their lives. I would either train her to death on it, or pass it up as an option at this point with her limited experience.</div></div>

I agree to a degree. Should a totally "green to firearms" person look to a SA for a first purchase? Maybe, maybe not. I think each individual's mechanical ability & reaction to duress determine that. Do I think a SA is right for all? No, but judging by her previous shooting experience(.40 SW, .45 ACP, and .357 Mag), I am assuming the .45 ACP was more likely than not: SA

Does it make you shudder to think of all those novices who got a SA, got a CC permit, and carry having only shot the 50rds required for the qualifier? It makes me shudder thinking there are some people carrying who took 1 hour to load 1 magazine to qualify with.......





<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Luv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As far as the Glock goes, I can just see that thing stuck in her purse, with a tube of lipstick managing it's way into the trigger guard, and the first good nudge to the purse causing a negligent discharge. I would let her shoot as many DA revolvers as possible, hoping she'd pick one over an automatic, if it's going in her purse. As for jogging… get her a can of mace, and the fastest Nike's money can buy.

My $.02 </div></div>

I also agree a revolver would be the ideal cantidate, but the OP has said she prefers a semi. Maybe more range time with other cantidates would help.....

As far as an AD in a purse, holster selection <span style="font-style: italic">should</span> nullify that.




My only other suggestion to the OP would be to try to rent all the suggestions everyone here has given. I've seen far to many people be walked into a pocket-rocket without even considering shootability for that particular shooter. Yes, even a snubby .38 can be hard to handle for some, but at least with a wheel you don't have to worry about limp-wristing.
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

I think there are some very good points on both sides of the SA argument. And I will concede that it is ultimately based on the shooter's ability, and proficiency with any given platform. Also, I would agree that some very good choices have been laid out in this thread, and OP definitely has some great options now.

I hope you didn't think I was coming after you in any personal way.. It's just that I noticed OP was pretty set on double action only, and that it would be mainly a purse gun. I honestly never even considered that she'd holster it in the purse.
smile.gif

I just assumed the weapon would be floating around amidst makeup, cellphone, etc. And that made me worry a bit about some of the options that were discussed.

Great thread by the way. Always something to be learned from different views on CCW, and new shooters as well. I'm very interested in what she'll pick. Color me curious...
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Luv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I hope you didn't think I was coming after you in any personal way.. It's just that I noticed OP was pretty set on double action only, and that it would be mainly a purse gun. I honestly never even considered that she'd holster it in the purse.
smile.gif

</div></div>


Not at all brutha! By the way, I musta read right past the DAO part in the OP's requirements!
crazy.gif
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

At supper tonight she randomly informed me "I don't like double action [only] revolvers. I want to be able to cock it." Well...I tried to explain to her some of the advantages of carrying a DAO handgun; snag-reduction, liability of pointing a cocked revolver at a possible threat, etc, but she is not likely to change her mind. I'm not sure what to do, but I know I want to make her feel as though she is making the choice for herself. On the positive side, she did seem open to the idea of a revolver in general. lol. So I'm not sure what to do other than find a lot of guns for her to try and let her pick out of the options.

I am realizing from research that though the KT PF9 and other sub-compact 9mm's may be great deep concealment options for me, their sharp recoil may well make them a poor option for a woman that needs to be able to train extensively with her carry weapon. I did not realize just how sharp the recoil pulse was on these very light-weight 9's. She may like semi's, but I know she won't like or shoot well a sub-compact semi if the recoil is very sharp. A mid-weight J-frame revolver might answer this dilemma as well as give the highest possible level of reliability and remain small enough to be carried with a very high percentage of consistency. If she insists on something that is not DAO, then I will certainly work with that! I prefer her armed with Something verses leaving the "ideal" weapon home more often than not. She is a good enough shot shooting SA with my revolvers that she might even learn to enjoy shooting her CCW with light reloaded 38's..and that would be a huge advantage. She is very much wanting to get her CCL, so I'm not too worried about discouraging her from that idea, but she may not be interested in training enough to be good with her CCW if she does not have a shootable weapon. -sigh- Women.

Talked to my local gun shop owner who has (surprisingly) proved to be a very knowledgeable shooter, reloader, and decent amateur gunsmith, and he pointed out to me again that a gun really cannot be both carry-friendly and a joy to shoot, so decide where you are going to compromise and then...train with it. He reminded me that many smaller women also have a lot of trouble operating a slide even on a small gun. I know this is true in the case of my fiancee and sister shooting even an LCP.

My thoughts are turning to shrouded hammer (?) revolvers as a possible solution.

I'm not sure if I have my termanology right, so here's a link to a model that exemplifies that of which I am speaking.

http://www.taurususa.com/product-details...crumbseries=CC2

Virtually snag free, but would give the option of manually cocking hammer when on the range. I still prefer DAO for a dedicated carry gun, but this will be her weapon; not mine. She needs to like it.

The hunt continues.

-The Kid.
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

My wife carries a Taurus model 85 w/crimson trace grips. Which is exactly like the one in your link except the 85 is hammer less and DAO. She loves the gun and her only complaint is that when practicing with +P loads the recoil bothers her after 15-20 rounds. If shooting "light reloads" I bet your GF would probably like the 851.

I have heard many times about women having trouble working the slide of an auto. I'm sure you know, but revolvers offer the least amount of failure points in a defensive gun both from operator and mechanical failures.

Also, my wife didn't even want to talk about a "dinky revolver" when I brought it up. Took her to our local GS and let the "Sales Lady" (very knowledgeable and personable)do her thing. Went home with a brand new Revolver and never looked back. LOL.
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HathcockWannebe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am realizing from research that though the KT PF9 and other sub-compact 9mm's may be great deep concealment options for me, their sharp recoil may well make them a poor option for a woman that needs to be able to train extensively with her carry weapon. I did not realize just how sharp the recoil pulse was on these very light-weight 9's. She may like semi's, but I know she won't like or shoot well a sub-compact semi if the recoil is very sharp. A mid-weight J-frame revolver might answer this dilemma as well as give the highest possible level of reliability and remain small enough to be carried with a very high percentage of consistency.... and he pointed out to me again that a gun really cannot be both carry-friendly and a joy to shoot, so decide where you are going to compromise and then...train with it. He reminded me that many smaller women also have a lot of trouble operating a slide even on a small gun. I know this is true in the case of my fiancee and sister shooting even an LCP.

My thoughts are turning to shrouded hammer (?) revolvers as a possible solution.
</div></div>

Your gunsmith's quote is true to an extent.

My concern would be, if it's a beast to shoot, will it cause hesitation or flinching at the moment it's most needed? Buying a pocket-rocket and shooting 10rds. a year because it's painful is not being armed. There's a balancing act between shootability and concealibility, and I believe for most females it must lean a little more to the shootability side. I believe the difference in sexes allows men to comfortably lean much more to the concealibility side.

I have found that women who have a hard time manipulating slides find either the Sig P238 or Bersa Thunder(I think) to be the easiest slides to manipulate. But for the size & weight of the Bersa, you could probably have a 9mm.


I haven't shot an LCR .357, but it is VERY light and very concealable. Hard to find, but stuff it with light loaded .38's and she's golden. Can't remember if it had an exposed hammer or not, it may have.

Concealed hammers(hammerless) won't let garbage get in like a shrouded hammer could. I would think if it's rolling around a purse, even in a holster, it can potentially accumulate a lot of gunk in the channel of a shrouded hammer.
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

I agree that women ought to ideally carry the more shootable gun, but I also know that almost every woman that I know carries concealed complains about the inconvenience of carrying even tiny little guns. The women CCL holders I know are only going to consistently carry a tiny gun; end of story. Women don't think "I need the biggest, most accurate weapon I can carry with a high percentage of consistency. In case I ever need it; I want it to kill bad guys in a hurry!" They think(perhaps very reasonably): "I need A gun to carry just in case I ever really need one. Find me a gun that won't inconvenience me."

Therefore, I believe it must first be very small/convenient and then shootable. In the case of a j-frame, loading it with very light reloads featuring ~100 grain bullets will make it very comfortable to shoot even for a fairly extended practice session. I think maybe we are unconsciously lumping "hard to shoot accurately" and "painful to shoot" both under the same banner of "shootability" or lack thereof? There are lots of guns that can be shot comfortably in practice that are stinking hard to shoot accurately regardless of recoil level; Small frame revolvers. Sub-compact semi's are no harder or easier to shoot accurately (for me), but certainly have a lot more perceived recoil and you can only reduce power so much with a semi (if you still want it to function semi-automatically.).

Thanks for all the constructive discussion!

-The Kid.
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HathcockWannebe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey all,
I'm looking to buy a handgun for my fiance to carry in the near future. My prerequisites are:

9mm
Small enough to carry comfortably all day, every day.
No external safeties.
Preferably DAO; I'm a revolver guy myself.
Durable enough to practice with fairly frequently.

She is not an experienced shooter, but since dating me has learned quickly. She is quite petite, but has done well handling the recoil of several full-size .40 SW, .45 ACP, and .357 Mag handguns, so I'm confident she can learn to handle a compact 9mm...especially if I reload some nice light plinking loads for her. I am not thrilled about the idea of her carrying in a purse, but it's better than nothing, so slightly bulky pistols may be an option.

My short list currently includes:

G26
Kel-Tec PF9

PF9 is what I'm planning on right now.

Got any suggestions? Surely there must be other options out there of which I am not thinking.

-The Kid. </div></div>

PF9 is an OK choice. I would also consider a Khar PM9 or CM9. The trigger on the Khar Pm9 is very smooth, feels much better than the PF9 or the very long pull of the Ruger LC9. My Khar PM9 is easy to shoot because of the trigger. I think it's the best DAO trigger I have come across in a slim sub compact 9mm so far. The accuracy with this small pistol is amazing.
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silver_Bullet_00</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The trigger on the Khar Pm9 is very smooth, feels much better than the PF9 or the very long pull of the Ruger LC9. My Khar PM9 is easy to shoot because of the trigger. I think it's the best DAO trigger I have come across in a slim sub compact 9mm so far. The accuracy with this small pistol is amazing. </div></div>

+1 - I absolutely agree with Silver_Bullet_00 on this.
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Take her shooting with more different handgungs. Let her become comfortable with something. Then let her choose what she wants. As her fiancee, asking her "What do you think?" and "Which one would you want?" will pay political dividends in the future.
wink.gif
</div></div>

Been there, done that.

I'm an NRA-certified instructor in pistol/personal protection. I've trained a LOT of women in pistol basics; I've run several classes with 17-30 women at a time (with lots of RSO help) and many many one-on-one sessions.

Most women seem to like revolvers. Simple. Can be very light. Unless they are driven, they just won't "get" semi-auto mechanics and Glock grips and ergonomics lead to "short finger syndrome" (small hands) and "limp wresting" (too little grip and forearm strength) with lots of FTF and stove piping of empty cases with women shooters. They just do. Like I said, unless they're motivated. (And for the Glock defenders, take it somewhere else).

The best piece of advice was what Graham said.

Find a range, find several ranges (make a couple of day trips out of it, include some lunch), have her try as many different makes and models of gun. Have HER find the one(s) that fit her best - grip, sight picture (close her eyes, grip gun, bring up to face, open eyes, where are the sights?) and make a choice from the smallest, lightest, largest caliber gun that she has chosen and can and will shoot comfortably, reliably and accurately.

I usually bring at least a dozen different pistols when I teach (S&W, SIG, Kahr, Keltec, CZ, Colt, among others). Small differences in grip circumference and angle of incidence with the frame/slide can add up to big differences in how well they're shot or liked. My wife's favorite is a S&W model 60, 2" SS in .357 mag. Go figure.

One woman I taught from the ground up had never shot a gun before in her life. She started with airsoft in the morning, then a S&W model 63, a K-22 (both .22 LR), then a Ruger SP101 in .38 special, a Model 36 (J-frame) in .38 SPL and , Model 19 (K-frame), a Model 29 was just too large for her and she didn't like semi-autos much. But by the end of the day she was shooting the Model 19, a sexy 2" with rosewood grips with full-power .357 Mag loads like Jerry Miculek. She wound up buying one.

Is that YOUR short list or hers? Let her choose. From a wider variety of pistols. She might surprise you.
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

I would recommend a Kahr. they are reliable, increddibly accurate and easy to control. they are also small and incredibly concealable. and last but not least, USA owned and made.
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

Just for an added FYI, the J-frame is a double action revolver but can be cocked and shot single action. In fact, the single action trigger pull on mine breaks quite nicely. It is considerably more difficult to shoot double action. But that's the beauty of it if she's carrying it in her purse. It would be nearly impossible to accidentally pull the trigger.

Check out the Smith website for the "Lady Smith". It's offered in shrouded, and exposed configurations. Based on a J-frame, with a slightly smaller feel to it specifically for female shooters. I know I keep going on and on about the J-frame, but I just love mine and would recommend it to anyone who doesn't have monster hands.

I wish I had pictures of the targets I shot two days ago. It really is a surprisingly accurate weapon. It's more accurate than I can shoot it, and that's with the 2 1/8" barrel. No problem shooting consistently on a 10 inch target from 25 yards in single action. Double action is a bit tougher to be consistent with though. My friend brought along his 1911, and was very impressed… almost shocked… at the accuracy that my little revolver is capable of.
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

Luv, thanks. I am in the midst of researching all the various configurations of J-frames and my brain is spinning. I would be Very happy if she settled on a J-frame like the 637 or 638. I know these guns can be crazy accurate, nearly 100% reliable, and actually fun to shoot. No need to apologize...it's an excellent option. If she purse carries, then the gun will also be in a holster.

Tell me something, do the modern SW's have any sort of internal locking safety mechanism? If so, can it be removed or permanently disabled? I can't tell you how fundamentally repulsive and offensive I find the idea.
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

From what I've read, internal locks started going on the Smiths in 2001/2002, depending on the model. Anything prior to that should be g2g.

Mine has the internal lock. I've put about 700 rounds through it, without any issues. Cleaning the weapon regularly seems to alleviate the issue. That being said….I guess it could be an issue either way, and one would not want to bet their life on it. You've got me thinking now about removing mine…ha.

Video of how to disable the lock.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RVPYgohVCNM

The video is very dry, but completely explains and demonstrates the procedure necessary to remove/disable the internal lock using simple tools.

Also, according to information I found on a different forum, based on S&W customer service inquiry… The following are available factory new, without locks:

M&P340
M&P340CT
340PD
442
632 Pro
640 Pro
442 Pro
Bodyguard 38
also 40, 42, 351C, & 43C

Don't hold me to it though. I personally only have experience with my two model 60's, both with the internal lock. Hope that helps. Anyone please feel free to correct me on the models listed above…
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

Got a gun shop with an indoor range and a selection to rent? Even if it is a hike to get there, it will be worth it. Maybe even a good time for the 2 of you to do together!

The only one that is right for her is the one she is comfortable shooting.

Best of luck to the 2 of you,
DS
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

Here's my opinion:

It's crucial you don't force your choice on her. Get whatever she likes, even if it's ALL wrong. Later, when she recognizes it's all wrong, sell it and try again. She'll resent you and be a bitch forever if you force the choice, or say "told ya so".

The J frame is a great gun. Carried mine for years. Mine is a 442 in 38+P. I'm a big able-bodied guy, and can certainly "handle" it, but it's stout. Every woman that has used it think's it's too much. I loaded some low-pressure 90gr cartridges for it, and women seem to like that better, but still think it's a bit abrupt.

Any pistol SHOULD be holstered when carried. I don't care what anyone says, it needs to be inside it's own little happy pouch, with it's trigger protected. No way should any pistol, even one with a 10+lb DA trigger be bouncing around in a purse. Huge no-no in my opinion.

The Kahr PM9 and/or CW9 (depending on what overall size you're going for) are great choices. The recoil is by far the LEAST out of all the "little 9s" that I've tried. The Keltec PF9 is the worst.
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's my opinion:

It's crucial you don't force your choice on her. Get whatever she likes, even if it's ALL wrong. Later, when she recognizes it's all wrong, sell it and try again. She'll resent you and be a bitch forever if you force the choice, or say "told ya so".

The J frame is a great gun. Carried mine for years. Mine is a 442 in 38+P. I'm a big able-bodied guy, and can certainly "handle" it, but it's stout. Every woman that has used it think's it's too much. I loaded some low-pressure 90gr cartridges for it, and women seem to like that better, but still think it's a bit abrupt.

Any pistol SHOULD be holstered when carried. I don't care what anyone says, it needs to be inside it's own little happy pouch, with it's trigger protected. No way should any pistol, even one with a 10+lb DA trigger be bouncing around in a purse. Huge no-no in my opinion. </div></div>
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

If I could convince my wife to carry I would probably point her toward a Ruger LCR, maybe a S&W J frame.

If you want her in a semi auto, I would incourage you to find a place to let her try a Walther PPS 9mm. I have one and I love it.
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

+1 for the M&P Shield, With some of my direction she put back one of these AND a Pink grip S&W .38. So I suppose we are on similar brainwaves. Plus my Dad has a sub-compact Glock that she doesn't like the feel of. Double-stack is a bit much for her hand, without taking the wind out of Glock's sails. Just a prefernce in this case.
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

By "direction",I mean I wanted her to get a comfortable semi-auto she could use for her CHL, however was more than happy with her alternative Revolver choice. Seeing as how I bought it, I may keep it if she finds it doesn't suit her. But would still like her to pratice with it so she always has the option of carrying semi-auto.:)
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

Some women have a hard time manipulating the slide on the small semi auto 380's and 9mm handguns. Also, take into consideration manipulating the gun in a stressful situation to clear a failure to feed, misfire etc...

Ponder this snerario keeping in mind some people are not as gun trained as other's.

1. Reach for the gun in a STRESSFUL DEADLY situation.

A. Pull revolver from purse, aim, Pull the trigger.

B. Pull semi auto from purse, disengage manual saftey (if they remember), aim, pull the trigger

Just my opinion.
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I see it all the time. Men that try to push semi-autos on their ladies.
Most times they are way better off with a S&W 642.
Hell, I know some guys who would be better off with one.
</div></div>

The 642 is about as bad a gun as you can find for a new shooter. They recoil heavily, have the worst sights of anything you can buy (niche guns without sights excepted) hold only five rounds and have a trigger that women can't always reliably pull.
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

In ancient china dough rollers were utilized extensivly as weapons. they somtimes were like 20 lbs of hardwood and 36"

woodenrollingpin.jpg


I would guess the only thing safe for purse carry firearm would be a auto condition 3. i dont know xd? glock? cz po7? with extra grooves machined into the slide to get it in action from condition 3?
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

My better half loves her 642 with CT grips
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

SW M&P. Let her shoot the full size, compact and Shield and see what she likes best. All are customizable for grip size and have nice triggers that can be made even better with Apex parts.

For inside the purse carry, use Dale Fricke Zack holster tethered to the inside.
 
Re: CCW for Novice female shooter.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WhiteCliffsOfDover</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Some women have a hard time manipulating the slide on the small semi auto 380's and 9mm handguns. Also, take into consideration manipulating the gun in a stressful situation to clear a failure to feed, misfire etc...

Ponder this snerario keeping in mind some people are not as gun trained as other's.

1. Reach for the gun in a STRESSFUL DEADLY situation.

A. Pull revolver from purse, aim, Pull the trigger.

B. Pull semi auto from purse, disengage manual saftey (if they remember), aim, pull the trigger

Just my opinion.

</div></div>

Truth. Couldn't agree more. If I'm not mistake, handguns with safeties were invented by and for homosexuals. Maybe someone can fact check that for me.
wink.gif


As to whoever mentioned 642 as "worst gun for new shooter", I would respectfully disagree. She shoots my GP100 in double action mode very effectively so trigger pull would not be a problem, though I intend to get her a DA/SA revolver if she is willing to go with a revolver. Five shots, nearly guaranteed every time, of +P .38 is likely to solve any issues she encounters short of a full scale fire fight with multiple threats...in such case, she is likely dead regardless of firearm.

Here is a female's perspective on shooting the 637. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI9MYsnDGts Note that she shot +P loads and didn't whine too much even about that. The recoil of a light loaded 38 even in a 15 oz gun is going to be pretty much negligible, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. Get yourself a good set of ear plugs and muffs and maybe the blast won't bother you so much? I know with a lot of shooters, including myself, the noise is the biggest cause of flinching; not the actual recoil of the weapon.

My thinking has come to the point where I believe that there is no gun that is easy to shoot that is also easy to carry ALL the time. Whatever she carries will not be easy to shoot. With a J-frame, my lightest reloads will allow her range time to be pleasant and she will learn to shoot well what she carries due to putting in the time necessary to master Any gun small enough to fit her lifestyle. She is pretty insistent on exposed hammer, and I'm ok with that since it will make her range time more enjoyable.

-The Kid.
 
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