Gunsmithing Any Melonite updates
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Re: Any Melonite updates
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JL1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How much corrosion protection does it give vs other processes and baked on coatings? </div></div>
It renders the metal almost completely impervious to corrosion inside and outside from what I understand.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JL1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How much corrosion protection does it give vs other processes and baked on coatings? </div></div>
It renders the metal almost completely impervious to corrosion inside and outside from what I understand.
Re: Any Melonite updates
no,..it actually lessens the corrossion protection as it leaves the metal extremeley porous. It just makes it very very hard and slippery!
no,..it actually lessens the corrossion protection as it leaves the metal extremeley porous. It just makes it very very hard and slippery!
Re: Any Melonite updates
Is MMI still in business or possibly changed their website? I followed the link and got to a "page marker" site. If not, my Google-fu is weak and my apologies.
ETA: I found this website http://www.trutecind.com/isonite_q.aspx
Is this the right company? If so, what city is Joel in? Thanks!
Is MMI still in business or possibly changed their website? I followed the link and got to a "page marker" site. If not, my Google-fu is weak and my apologies.
ETA: I found this website http://www.trutecind.com/isonite_q.aspx
Is this the right company? If so, what city is Joel in? Thanks!
Re: Any Melonite updates
It's been over three months and no new comments. Will somebody start it going again and tell us the results after your treatment. I for one am very interested in your comments. thanks. MM
It's been over three months and no new comments. Will somebody start it going again and tell us the results after your treatment. I for one am very interested in your comments. thanks. MM
Re: Any Melonite updates
http://www.burlingtoneng.com/corrosion_resistance.html as featured here...
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http://www.burlingtoneng.com/corrosion_resistance.html as featured here...
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8QjbOZAx2mw"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8QjbOZAx2mw" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
Re: Any Melonite updates
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mexican match</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's been over three months and no new comments. Will somebody start it going again and tell us the results after your treatment. I for one am very interested in your comments. thanks. MM </div></div>
Maybe you should melonite something and report back...
Josh
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mexican match</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's been over three months and no new comments. Will somebody start it going again and tell us the results after your treatment. I for one am very interested in your comments. thanks. MM </div></div>
Maybe you should melonite something and report back...
Josh
Re: Any Melonite updates
This thread is why I love this forum. Lots of great factual info.
This thread is why I love this forum. Lots of great factual info.
Re: Any Melonite updates
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MinorDamage</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mexican match</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's been over three months and no new comments. Will somebody start it going again and tell us the results after your treatment. I for one am very interested in your comments. thanks. MM </div></div>
Maybe you should melonite something and report back...
Josh </div></div>
I'm sending in a Remington 700 action and my Stevens build next week.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MinorDamage</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mexican match</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's been over three months and no new comments. Will somebody start it going again and tell us the results after your treatment. I for one am very interested in your comments. thanks. MM </div></div>
Maybe you should melonite something and report back...
Josh </div></div>
I'm sending in a Remington 700 action and my Stevens build next week.
Re: Any Melonite updates
If I need to send one barrel, who do I contact? Can someone give an updated email or phone number for the person I need to talk to.
If I need to send one barrel, who do I contact? Can someone give an updated email or phone number for the person I need to talk to.
Re: Any Melonite updates
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steelcomp</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsydlooknin75</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have AR's with Melonite coating inside and out. I love it for the durability but the barrels work loose on some if they're "completely" coated. I guess it's just that slick! </div></div>
How does an AR barrel work loose when there is a gas tube run thru the teeth on the barrel nut to keep it from happening ?
</div></div>Not all barrel nuts or handguard assys are the same, but I will say this...the barrel nut on an AR would have to back out far enough to allow the barrel to disengage from it's indexing pin in order to twist free of the receiver.
If someone is shooting an AR with the barrel nut backed off that far and didn't know it, they shouldn't be any where hear a firearm, or anything electrical, or sharp objects for that matter.
JMO
On Melonite, it's a very cool process. We use it extensively in racing engines on high stress/high wear parts and for friction reduction. I can see a definite application in firearms for the same reason, but I can also see that whoever is doing the process would have to know something about firearms. This has me thinking about my current 7mmRM build (knowing they can be hard on barrels) and looking into the process.
I would venture a guess that if someone did a heat comparison between ten shots through an untreated barrel, and ten fired through a Melonited barrel, there would be a measurable heat reduction on the treated barrel. </div></div>
I have had to fix several M16's and M4's that had this happen to them over here. Usually it is the barrel coming out of the extension after a soldier removed the barrel by putting a tanker bar through the front sight base to turn the barrel. Some think, for some reason, that to install their favorite free float tube they have to remove the barrel themselves. I did have one come in that was properly torqued and put together but it was missing the index pin all together. Most of these are new infantry soldiers but I do get the occasional FOB hound that wants his weapon to be the baddest on the block. My favorite is the cook that traded whatever he had for a beat up old gemtech can from somebody and used while he was here (he was a little upset when he tried to get it home).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steelcomp</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsydlooknin75</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have AR's with Melonite coating inside and out. I love it for the durability but the barrels work loose on some if they're "completely" coated. I guess it's just that slick! </div></div>
How does an AR barrel work loose when there is a gas tube run thru the teeth on the barrel nut to keep it from happening ?
</div></div>Not all barrel nuts or handguard assys are the same, but I will say this...the barrel nut on an AR would have to back out far enough to allow the barrel to disengage from it's indexing pin in order to twist free of the receiver.
If someone is shooting an AR with the barrel nut backed off that far and didn't know it, they shouldn't be any where hear a firearm, or anything electrical, or sharp objects for that matter.
JMO
On Melonite, it's a very cool process. We use it extensively in racing engines on high stress/high wear parts and for friction reduction. I can see a definite application in firearms for the same reason, but I can also see that whoever is doing the process would have to know something about firearms. This has me thinking about my current 7mmRM build (knowing they can be hard on barrels) and looking into the process.
I would venture a guess that if someone did a heat comparison between ten shots through an untreated barrel, and ten fired through a Melonited barrel, there would be a measurable heat reduction on the treated barrel. </div></div>
I have had to fix several M16's and M4's that had this happen to them over here. Usually it is the barrel coming out of the extension after a soldier removed the barrel by putting a tanker bar through the front sight base to turn the barrel. Some think, for some reason, that to install their favorite free float tube they have to remove the barrel themselves. I did have one come in that was properly torqued and put together but it was missing the index pin all together. Most of these are new infantry soldiers but I do get the occasional FOB hound that wants his weapon to be the baddest on the block. My favorite is the cook that traded whatever he had for a beat up old gemtech can from somebody and used while he was here (he was a little upset when he tried to get it home).
Re: Any Melonite updates
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">no,..it actually lessens the corrossion protection as it leaves the metal extremeley porous. It just makes it very very hard and slippery!
</div></div>
It slightly reduces the stainless but greatly increaces the chromemoly.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">no,..it actually lessens the corrossion protection as it leaves the metal extremeley porous. It just makes it very very hard and slippery!
</div></div>
It slightly reduces the stainless but greatly increaces the chromemoly.
Re: Any Melonite updates
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I spoke with the owner at MMI trutec and he stated that he can do both barrels and actions with no loss in heat treat of the core material.</div></div>
-a quote snipped from page one by someone. Take this for what it's worth. I personally believe it.
Just yesterday I was having a conversation with the owner of the shop that manufactures the Badger Ordnance M2008 receivers. A very well established shop owner had sent two of these actions in for the Mellonite process.
Both came back 3 full points SOFTER than when they'd left.
Like I said, take it for what it's worth. I believe it because I know the guy personally and I trust his judgement 110%.
Also know this: Chromoly and various grades of SS (be it 400 series or 15-5ph) are probably the two most common materials used for making receivers and bolts. This isn't new or rocket science. All one has to do is look at the heat treat and tempering charts to see whether the material will anneal/normalize from the Mellonite process.
My limited knowledge on it is that the salt bath cooks at around 900*F.
Barrels are typically around 29-32 Rockwell. Button barrels being the softer, cut barrels being harder.
Receivers tend to run in the low to mid 40's with bolts starting at around 35 and ending up around 37.
Generally speaking you want at least 5 points of hardness differential between the bolt/receiver. 7 is even better.
So, while it may be great to have ONE of the parts treated, the simple engineering basics points towards eventual problems if both are done to the same surface hardness level.
This is just my opinion based on a little personal experience and a lot of verbage from folks I know and trust. I'm not trying to start a crusade or bad mouth anyone.
I think barrels are fine because they are low enough in hardness to begin with that it doesn't hurt them. Some claim they shoot better, last longer. I've only had it done to one gun and the owner has had really good performance.
Hope this helps.
C.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I spoke with the owner at MMI trutec and he stated that he can do both barrels and actions with no loss in heat treat of the core material.</div></div>
-a quote snipped from page one by someone. Take this for what it's worth. I personally believe it.
Just yesterday I was having a conversation with the owner of the shop that manufactures the Badger Ordnance M2008 receivers. A very well established shop owner had sent two of these actions in for the Mellonite process.
Both came back 3 full points SOFTER than when they'd left.
Like I said, take it for what it's worth. I believe it because I know the guy personally and I trust his judgement 110%.
Also know this: Chromoly and various grades of SS (be it 400 series or 15-5ph) are probably the two most common materials used for making receivers and bolts. This isn't new or rocket science. All one has to do is look at the heat treat and tempering charts to see whether the material will anneal/normalize from the Mellonite process.
My limited knowledge on it is that the salt bath cooks at around 900*F.
Barrels are typically around 29-32 Rockwell. Button barrels being the softer, cut barrels being harder.
Receivers tend to run in the low to mid 40's with bolts starting at around 35 and ending up around 37.
Generally speaking you want at least 5 points of hardness differential between the bolt/receiver. 7 is even better.
So, while it may be great to have ONE of the parts treated, the simple engineering basics points towards eventual problems if both are done to the same surface hardness level.
This is just my opinion based on a little personal experience and a lot of verbage from folks I know and trust. I'm not trying to start a crusade or bad mouth anyone.
I think barrels are fine because they are low enough in hardness to begin with that it doesn't hurt them. Some claim they shoot better, last longer. I've only had it done to one gun and the owner has had really good performance.
Hope this helps.
C.
Re: Any Melonite updates
Chad, I'm with you 99%. Not 100% because I don't know about the necessary hardness differential between bolt and receiver. Not disagreeing - I just literally don't know ...but would like to. Care to expound?
Anyway, Melonite is even more than 900°F. More lije 1000-1050°. That said, there is no steel alloy out there that won't temper at these temperatures. Steel is thru-hardened by taking it to 1575°F, soaking, allowing grain growth, then quenching to freeze the grains. The steel comes out HARD. Too hard for any/many practical purposes, so it is tempered to draw it back to a reasonable compromise of hardness and toughness. Tempering is temo/time dependent, kinda like annealing brass. A typical temper would be 450°F for 4 hours, or maybe 600°F for 3 hours. Point being, ANY further processing above the tempering temperature will draw the steel further.
Thats the theory.
Nitride/melonite shops will likely say the core hardness you lose from further tempering will be made up for by increased surface hardness...
Well, my latest build, an FN SPR, had the receiver, bolt, shroud and firing pin melonited. After 500 rounds, the leading edge of the cocking finger of my cocking piece is peened a little...I've never seen that, even on OLD and well used Win70s/SPRs. And before anyone asks...NO, my firing pin travel does not allow the finger to crash into the cocking cam.
So, my cocking piece was softened/tempered, and a but of increased surface hardness did NOT make up for it.
That is the practice.
Chad, I'm with you 99%. Not 100% because I don't know about the necessary hardness differential between bolt and receiver. Not disagreeing - I just literally don't know ...but would like to. Care to expound?
Anyway, Melonite is even more than 900°F. More lije 1000-1050°. That said, there is no steel alloy out there that won't temper at these temperatures. Steel is thru-hardened by taking it to 1575°F, soaking, allowing grain growth, then quenching to freeze the grains. The steel comes out HARD. Too hard for any/many practical purposes, so it is tempered to draw it back to a reasonable compromise of hardness and toughness. Tempering is temo/time dependent, kinda like annealing brass. A typical temper would be 450°F for 4 hours, or maybe 600°F for 3 hours. Point being, ANY further processing above the tempering temperature will draw the steel further.
Thats the theory.
Nitride/melonite shops will likely say the core hardness you lose from further tempering will be made up for by increased surface hardness...
Well, my latest build, an FN SPR, had the receiver, bolt, shroud and firing pin melonited. After 500 rounds, the leading edge of the cocking finger of my cocking piece is peened a little...I've never seen that, even on OLD and well used Win70s/SPRs. And before anyone asks...NO, my firing pin travel does not allow the finger to crash into the cocking cam.
So, my cocking piece was softened/tempered, and a but of increased surface hardness did NOT make up for it.
That is the practice.
Re: Any Melonite updates
Imagine if you well sticking two pieces of chewing gum in your hands. Now rub them together.
We know what happens right? They gum up and stick to one another. They "plasticize" a bit and gall.
It's essentially the same thing with bolts/receivers. Make the hardness identical and they want to tear each other to pieces. It'll do this regardless of whether its 28 rockwell or 60+.
Other things like material properties come into play. Put enough nickel, chromium, vanadium in the steel and it'll get really slick when you heat treat it. Chromoly is like this.
Actions like the Nesika stuff are especially susceptible to this. BUT there was a solution so don't let it scare you from buying one.
The grade and heat treat on the Nesika actions makes it difficult to get the 5 points of differential. As I said, 7 would be better. 15-5ph SS is kinda gummy even at 40HRC. (I forget what the proper Brinnel # is)
As a result the lugs beg to gall on the action. You have a lot of shear and pressure being exerted at the initial point of lockup on the bolt/receiver lugs. it's focused to the leading edges of each lug.
If the action wasn't designed as a "cock on open only" they wouldn't last very long. If it climbed the ramps the way Remington/Winchester actions do, they'd gall almost immediately. What was done was to alter the timing so that the load is applied later in the rotation when the lugs have already obtained a purchase on the lug abutments of the receiver.
Just a different way to skin the cat. The achilles heal is that if the guy tinkering with the action doesn't know this, he'll likely screw it up when putting it together. The timing is absolutely critical to get right. I've fixed/repaired a ton of these actions for just this reason. It's not the actions' fault. It's the nut armed with a set of allen wrenches.
Going home. Got the last stock in base coat for tomorrow.
C.
Imagine if you well sticking two pieces of chewing gum in your hands. Now rub them together.
We know what happens right? They gum up and stick to one another. They "plasticize" a bit and gall.
It's essentially the same thing with bolts/receivers. Make the hardness identical and they want to tear each other to pieces. It'll do this regardless of whether its 28 rockwell or 60+.
Other things like material properties come into play. Put enough nickel, chromium, vanadium in the steel and it'll get really slick when you heat treat it. Chromoly is like this.
Actions like the Nesika stuff are especially susceptible to this. BUT there was a solution so don't let it scare you from buying one.
The grade and heat treat on the Nesika actions makes it difficult to get the 5 points of differential. As I said, 7 would be better. 15-5ph SS is kinda gummy even at 40HRC. (I forget what the proper Brinnel # is)
As a result the lugs beg to gall on the action. You have a lot of shear and pressure being exerted at the initial point of lockup on the bolt/receiver lugs. it's focused to the leading edges of each lug.
If the action wasn't designed as a "cock on open only" they wouldn't last very long. If it climbed the ramps the way Remington/Winchester actions do, they'd gall almost immediately. What was done was to alter the timing so that the load is applied later in the rotation when the lugs have already obtained a purchase on the lug abutments of the receiver.
Just a different way to skin the cat. The achilles heal is that if the guy tinkering with the action doesn't know this, he'll likely screw it up when putting it together. The timing is absolutely critical to get right. I've fixed/repaired a ton of these actions for just this reason. It's not the actions' fault. It's the nut armed with a set of allen wrenches.
Going home. Got the last stock in base coat for tomorrow.
C.
Re: Any Melonite updates
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">no,..it actually lessens the corrossion protection as it leaves the metal extremeley porous. It just makes it very very hard and slippery!
</div></div>
crack is bad!....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">no,..it actually lessens the corrossion protection as it leaves the metal extremeley porous. It just makes it very very hard and slippery!
</div></div>
crack is bad!....
Re: Any Melonite updates
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I need to send one barrel, who do I contact? Can someone give an updated email or phone number for the person I need to talk to.</div></div>
http://www.blacknitride.com/
ask for shade... tell him russ sent you from the forums... he will make you a deal
reviews..
https://sites.google.com/site/freeballisticcalculator/black-nitride-melonite-and-qpq
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I need to send one barrel, who do I contact? Can someone give an updated email or phone number for the person I need to talk to.</div></div>
http://www.blacknitride.com/
ask for shade... tell him russ sent you from the forums... he will make you a deal
reviews..
https://sites.google.com/site/freeballisticcalculator/black-nitride-melonite-and-qpq
Re: Any Melonite updates
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Going home. Got the last stock in base coat for tomorrow.
C. </div></div>I got a Defiance Machine Rebel action (Rem 700 footprint) for my 7mm SAUM build. No bolt fluting. I plan to get the barrel melonited when I get it.
Should I have the action or the bolt done at the same time?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Going home. Got the last stock in base coat for tomorrow.
C. </div></div>I got a Defiance Machine Rebel action (Rem 700 footprint) for my 7mm SAUM build. No bolt fluting. I plan to get the barrel melonited when I get it.
Should I have the action or the bolt done at the same time?
Re: Any Melonite updates
When I got my Defiance action I asked about having the bolt Melonited, mainly to reduce the possibility of galling, they told me it was ok to have the bolt done but they did not recommend having the receiver done.
You should contact them on your own just to verify.
When I got my Defiance action I asked about having the bolt Melonited, mainly to reduce the possibility of galling, they told me it was ok to have the bolt done but they did not recommend having the receiver done.
You should contact them on your own just to verify.
Re: Any Melonite updates
When I called Defiance they told me that the only place they would recommend using to melonite their actions (and still stand behind them if there were any warranty issues) was MMI. They saw no reason not to melonite the action and bolt. I have several done and I have yet to see anything issues with this.
When I called Defiance they told me that the only place they would recommend using to melonite their actions (and still stand behind them if there were any warranty issues) was MMI. They saw no reason not to melonite the action and bolt. I have several done and I have yet to see anything issues with this.
Re: Any Melonite updates
[quote[/quote]
http://www.blacknitride.com/
ask for shade... tell him russ sent you from the forums... he will make you a deal
reviews..
https://sites.google.com/site/freeballisticcalculator/black-nitride-melonite-and-qpq [/quote]
Please dont take offense to this but I've heard most prefer MMI and they seem to have the most experience doing it so I would feel more comfortable going with them. I just don't have the funds for another barrel if something were to happen by going with another shop.
[quote[/quote]
http://www.blacknitride.com/
ask for shade... tell him russ sent you from the forums... he will make you a deal
reviews..
https://sites.google.com/site/freeballisticcalculator/black-nitride-melonite-and-qpq [/quote]
Please dont take offense to this but I've heard most prefer MMI and they seem to have the most experience doing it so I would feel more comfortable going with them. I just don't have the funds for another barrel if something were to happen by going with another shop.
Re: Any Melonite updates
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Please dont take offense to this but I've heard most prefer MMI and they seem to have the most experience doing it so I would feel more comfortable going with them. I just don't have the funds for another barrel if something were to happen by going with another shop
.</div></div>
H&M built and owned MMI till they sold it to the jap's
H&M is the OEM for S&W AR barrels, and M&P slides, LWRC, AAC, Spikes Tactical, Beretta, KRISS, Robinson arms, Barrett...
just sayin....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Please dont take offense to this but I've heard most prefer MMI and they seem to have the most experience doing it so I would feel more comfortable going with them. I just don't have the funds for another barrel if something were to happen by going with another shop
.</div></div>
H&M built and owned MMI till they sold it to the jap's
H&M is the OEM for S&W AR barrels, and M&P slides, LWRC, AAC, Spikes Tactical, Beretta, KRISS, Robinson arms, Barrett...
just sayin....
Re: Any Melonite updates
I will give them a look then. Do you know turn around time right now? I google search and it stated in another thread they clean after treating to get all the residual salt out, is this true? I'll give him a call for price, thanks Ring.
I will give them a look then. Do you know turn around time right now? I google search and it stated in another thread they clean after treating to get all the residual salt out, is this true? I'll give him a call for price, thanks Ring.
Re: Any Melonite updates
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will give them a look then. Do you know turn around time right now? I google search and it stated in another thread they clean after treating to get all the residual salt out, is this true? I'll give him a call for price, thanks Ring. </div></div>
H&M quoted me "a few days", which ended up being about a month.
All parts were immaculate EXCEPT for inside my bolt, and inside the barrels' bores - which were super duper filthy, and exceptionally difficult to get 100% clean.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will give them a look then. Do you know turn around time right now? I google search and it stated in another thread they clean after treating to get all the residual salt out, is this true? I'll give him a call for price, thanks Ring. </div></div>
H&M quoted me "a few days", which ended up being about a month.
All parts were immaculate EXCEPT for inside my bolt, and inside the barrels' bores - which were super duper filthy, and exceptionally difficult to get 100% clean.
Re: Any Melonite updates
So who are the go to folk for this?
MMI i,m told is no longer doing work for JOe public due to Gov contracts
So who does process without a minimum charge?
i was given this info but have yet to see any one validate quality of work etc
Rodney at R+T customs, a in-house guy that is talking care of it all. 870-565-2589. Cost $60 per barrel with $20 return shipping cost. Turn around time is less then a week.
Any input?
So who are the go to folk for this?
MMI i,m told is no longer doing work for JOe public due to Gov contracts
So who does process without a minimum charge?
i was given this info but have yet to see any one validate quality of work etc
Rodney at R+T customs, a in-house guy that is talking care of it all. 870-565-2589. Cost $60 per barrel with $20 return shipping cost. Turn around time is less then a week.
Any input?
Re: Any Melonite updates
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will give them a look then. Do you know turn around time right now? I google search and it stated in another thread they clean after treating to get all the residual salt out, is this true? I'll give him a call for price, thanks Ring.</div></div>
no idea, im local, so i just drop it off and pick it up in 2 or 3 days..
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will give them a look then. Do you know turn around time right now? I google search and it stated in another thread they clean after treating to get all the residual salt out, is this true? I'll give him a call for price, thanks Ring.</div></div>
no idea, im local, so i just drop it off and pick it up in 2 or 3 days..
Re: Any Melonite updates
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will give them a look then. Do you know turn around time right now? I google search and it stated in another thread they clean after treating to get all the residual salt out, is this true? I'll give him a call for price, thanks Ring. </div></div>
H&M quoted me "a few days", which ended up being about a month.
All parts were immaculate EXCEPT for inside my bolt, and inside the barrels' bores - which were super duper filthy, and exceptionally difficult to get 100% clean.</div></div>
so was my barrel from MMI....
i reviewed MMI and H&M work here..
https://sites.google.com/site/freeballisticcalculator/black-nitride-melonite-and-qpq
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will give them a look then. Do you know turn around time right now? I google search and it stated in another thread they clean after treating to get all the residual salt out, is this true? I'll give him a call for price, thanks Ring. </div></div>
H&M quoted me "a few days", which ended up being about a month.
All parts were immaculate EXCEPT for inside my bolt, and inside the barrels' bores - which were super duper filthy, and exceptionally difficult to get 100% clean.</div></div>
so was my barrel from MMI....
i reviewed MMI and H&M work here..
https://sites.google.com/site/freeballisticcalculator/black-nitride-melonite-and-qpq
Re: Any Melonite updates
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ring</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will give them a look then. Do you know turn around time right now? I google search and it stated in another thread they clean after treating to get all the residual salt out, is this true? I'll give him a call for price, thanks Ring. </div></div>
H&M quoted me "a few days", which ended up being about a month.
All parts were immaculate EXCEPT for inside my bolt, and inside the barrels' bores - which were super duper filthy, and exceptionally difficult to get 100% clean.</div></div>
so was my barrel from MMI....
i reviewed MMI and H&M work here..
https://sites.google.com/site/freeballisticcalculator/black-nitride-melonite-and-qpq
</div></div>
Ring, whenever I post the "straight dope" about what I experienced with H&M, you seem to get rather defensive. Am I imagining this?
I feel that I have been 100% objective, and I don't believe I've been undeservingly negative about them. I certainly haven't put any kind of spin on my dealings, or results.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ring</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will give them a look then. Do you know turn around time right now? I google search and it stated in another thread they clean after treating to get all the residual salt out, is this true? I'll give him a call for price, thanks Ring. </div></div>
H&M quoted me "a few days", which ended up being about a month.
All parts were immaculate EXCEPT for inside my bolt, and inside the barrels' bores - which were super duper filthy, and exceptionally difficult to get 100% clean.</div></div>
so was my barrel from MMI....
i reviewed MMI and H&M work here..
https://sites.google.com/site/freeballisticcalculator/black-nitride-melonite-and-qpq
</div></div>
Ring, whenever I post the "straight dope" about what I experienced with H&M, you seem to get rather defensive. Am I imagining this?
I feel that I have been 100% objective, and I don't believe I've been undeservingly negative about them. I certainly haven't put any kind of spin on my dealings, or results.
Re: Any Melonite updates
I had a barreled action done by H&M and can back up the fact that there is a powdery substance that gets into every crevice. I didn't have much in the barrel, but in my ejector hole, and a couple other places on the bolt, it was thick. I used a drill bit to get it out of the ejector hole once I figured out what it was.
Would I use H&M again? Absolutely. Shade was great to deal with and easy to get ahold of when I had questions. Everything came back flawless and so far nothing has blown up on me since I've had it done. (Knock on wood.) I wouldn't hesitate to use MMI either, based on the may positive reviews. These are the only two companies I feel comfortable using though.
As of right now, all of my rifles from here on out will have it done.
-Dan
I had a barreled action done by H&M and can back up the fact that there is a powdery substance that gets into every crevice. I didn't have much in the barrel, but in my ejector hole, and a couple other places on the bolt, it was thick. I used a drill bit to get it out of the ejector hole once I figured out what it was.
Would I use H&M again? Absolutely. Shade was great to deal with and easy to get ahold of when I had questions. Everything came back flawless and so far nothing has blown up on me since I've had it done. (Knock on wood.) I wouldn't hesitate to use MMI either, based on the may positive reviews. These are the only two companies I feel comfortable using though.
As of right now, all of my rifles from here on out will have it done.
-Dan
Re: Any Melonite updates
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ring</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will give them a look then. Do you know turn around time right now? I google search and it stated in another thread they clean after treating to get all the residual salt out, is this true? I'll give him a call for price, thanks Ring. </div></div>
H&M quoted me "a few days", which ended up being about a month.
All parts were immaculate EXCEPT for inside my bolt, and inside the barrels' bores - which were super duper filthy, and exceptionally difficult to get 100% clean.</div></div>
so was my barrel from MMI....
i reviewed MMI and H&M work here..
https://sites.google.com/site/freeballisticcalculator/black-nitride-melonite-and-qpq
</div></div>
I'm in Mount Vernon Might have to give him a call...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ring</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will give them a look then. Do you know turn around time right now? I google search and it stated in another thread they clean after treating to get all the residual salt out, is this true? I'll give him a call for price, thanks Ring. </div></div>
H&M quoted me "a few days", which ended up being about a month.
All parts were immaculate EXCEPT for inside my bolt, and inside the barrels' bores - which were super duper filthy, and exceptionally difficult to get 100% clean.</div></div>
so was my barrel from MMI....
i reviewed MMI and H&M work here..
https://sites.google.com/site/freeballisticcalculator/black-nitride-melonite-and-qpq
</div></div>
I'm in Mount Vernon Might have to give him a call...
Re: Any Melonite updates
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ring</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will give them a look then. Do you know turn around time right now? I google search and it stated in another thread they clean after treating to get all the residual salt out, is this true? I'll give him a call for price, thanks Ring. </div></div>
H&M quoted me "a few days", which ended up being about a month.
All parts were immaculate EXCEPT for inside my bolt, and inside the barrels' bores - which were super duper filthy, and exceptionally difficult to get 100% clean.</div></div>
so was my barrel from MMI....
i reviewed MMI and H&M work here..
https://sites.google.com/site/freeballisticcalculator/black-nitride-melonite-and-qpq
</div></div>
Ring, whenever I post the "straight dope" about what I experienced with H&M, you seem to get rather defensive. Am I imagining this?
I feel that I have been 100% objective, and I don't believe I've been undeservingly negative about them. I certainly haven't put any kind of spin on my dealings, or results.</div></div>
not at all... if u had issues, then u had issue.. i dont debate that... just saying the inside of the barrel will come back and need MAJOR cleaning no matter who you send it to...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ring</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will give them a look then. Do you know turn around time right now? I google search and it stated in another thread they clean after treating to get all the residual salt out, is this true? I'll give him a call for price, thanks Ring. </div></div>
H&M quoted me "a few days", which ended up being about a month.
All parts were immaculate EXCEPT for inside my bolt, and inside the barrels' bores - which were super duper filthy, and exceptionally difficult to get 100% clean.</div></div>
so was my barrel from MMI....
i reviewed MMI and H&M work here..
https://sites.google.com/site/freeballisticcalculator/black-nitride-melonite-and-qpq
</div></div>
Ring, whenever I post the "straight dope" about what I experienced with H&M, you seem to get rather defensive. Am I imagining this?
I feel that I have been 100% objective, and I don't believe I've been undeservingly negative about them. I certainly haven't put any kind of spin on my dealings, or results.</div></div>
not at all... if u had issues, then u had issue.. i dont debate that... just saying the inside of the barrel will come back and need MAJOR cleaning no matter who you send it to...
Re: Any Melonite updates
how about this?...
after 11,000 documented rounds.
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3795644.0
some posts from there...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Some have been wondering about the usefulness of barrel nitriding (meloniting, QPQ, salt bath nitriding). I can report some results based upon my barrel.
I shoot Across the Course competitively. The barrel on my spacegun is a cut rifle barrel, in 223, 26" long, with a 7.7 twist. The barrel has been shooting well since it was put on the rifle, and is still shooting well today after 11,000 documented rounds.
I wanted to see the condition of the bore, since most competitive barrels are long gone after this many rounds. A bench rest shooter friend has a bore scope, so we decided to take a look. I brought along a new barrel from the same manufacturer, chambered the same way as a comparison. What we found was astonishing (to us).
The 11,000 round barrel showed some wear and very minor pitting in the first half of the lead in area. In the new barrel, there was a small step where the rifling started for the lead in. That step was worn smooth in the 11,000 round barrel. After that, there was no visible signs of wear, pitting, firing cracking, or any other signs of defects. After the lead in, the rifling was sharp all the way to the muzzle which appeared in perfect condition compared to the new barrel. Unfortunately, I didn't measure how the seating depth has changed since new.
Most of the loads used were mild, with 55gr bullets. The rifle has also had many rounds of max loads 90gr bullets at 2800fps.
We looked at another non-nitrided 17Rem barrel after 7,000 full power rounds. This barrel had stopped shooting, meaning the bullets were hitting sideways. This barrel had no rifling for the first 1"-2", was severely firecracked for the first half of its length and had chunks of torn metal away. It was clear why this barrel wouldn't shoot.
This is merely one data point. My results are not scientific. I didn't have a control barrel, and didn't measure the throat as time progressed. I used mild loads with relatively light bullets which may have contributed significantly to the good barrel life.
Barrel nitriding has been available to shooters for the past several years, but I haven't seen much data on long term results. Perhaps others can share their experiences so we can determine if this process has merits for the shooting community. My results thus far are positive.
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will second that. I have only a 5,000 round PPC barrel to talk about. I have others and am still shooting them.
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great to know 1st hand documented info on nitrated bbls. A pal had 3 new bbls nitrated for his Rugers.
I documented 40K+ rounds in a .223 bbl. before it gave up the ghost using a moly coated 50g vmax @ 3300 fps since day one and all I got was jumped on for being a liar when I posted my personal experiance with moly.
I looking to have 2 bbls nitrated for my varmint rigs and that helps what you posted.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was the Armorer for the Army Reserve Shooting Team for over a decade so I do have quite a bit of experience with both processes.
As I am sure you know, most G.I. barrels are made from chrome molly steel which is more susceptible to corrosion than stainless steel. Chrome lining is used on G.I. bores both to extend their shooting life and to protect them from corrosion that can be a problem in battlefield conditions where maintenance is sometimes sporadic or insufficient. Chrome lining does a pretty good job of protecting battlefield weapons. One of the objections to chrome lining is that it is thought to decrease accuracy. This seems to be a valid criticism and is backed up by machine rest tests I have conducted of identical barrels (same manufacturer but half chrome lined and half not).
As you are aware most barrel "wear" is in the throat area. So eventually the hot gasses from the burning of the gunpowder will eat thru the chrome lining at the throat. It is rumored that at this point accuracy will plummet but I have not found that to be true. (Or if true, it is overstated or maybe only occurs for that short period when there is both chrome and bare steel in the throat simultaneously - just at the point of initial break thru.) Chrome lined barrels can continue to shoot well for thousands of rounds after the bare barrel steel at the back of the barrel (throat) has been exposed due to erosion of the chrome lining. Another criticism of chrome lining is that it can flake off later in the life of the barrel resulting in poor accuracy. Obviously, this could also cause maintenance problems if the user is depending on the chrome to ward off corrosion and thus is careless in his bore cleaning. If corrosion is allowed to occur pitting will result and that will ruin accuracy for sure.
Barrel pitting was one of the reasons I got involved in Salt Bath Nitriding. I was loosing nearly as many expensive match grade barrels to improper maintenance (causing pitting) as I was to wear out. This was under the relatively benign target shooting conditions. Obviously given the reputation of degraded accuracy, using chrome lining wasn't an option. So for the past couple of years I have been Salt Bath Nitriding all of my match barrels and haven't had a single one exhibit any pitting. During that 2 yr. period shooters have put anywhere from a few hundred rounds to thousands of rounds on said barrels. I don't know how long the coating will persist so at this point I am still evaluating it as a preservative. I don't know what will happen in another year or two when these barrels get more wear on them. Salt Bath Nitriding goes on both inside of the bore and on the outside surface. So, instead of 2 manufacturing steps you have combined them into one. Salt Bath Nitriding doesn't degrade accuracy one iota, unlike chrome lining. This was the first thing that I verified when I began using the process. I broke in a bunch of barrels and then machine rest tested them for group. I recorded and kept the targets, cleaned up the barrels, and sent them to MMi TruTec for the Isonite process. When they came back I reassembled them on the same receivers with the same torque settings, same bolt carrier assemblies, same flash suppressors, etc. Then they were retested with the same ammo lots. NO degradation in accuracy and about a 1% increase in muzzle velocity.
Chrome lined barrels seem to clean up rather easily after a range session. I found the ease of cleaning of Isonite coated barrels to be similar to chrome lined barrels. The Isonite barrels clean up the easiest of any non chrome lined barrels I have ever used. Isonite can be applied to either stainless or chrome molly but the factory needs to know what steel you are sending them because the application process varies a bit. Again, I only have about 2 yr. of cleaning experience with Salt Bath Nitrided barrels. I don't know if the ease of cleaning will continue as the barrels get more rounds on them. Generally speaking, most non coated barrels get harder to clean later in life. Although stainless has a reputation of being corrosion resistant it isn't corrosion proof (I have had plenty of them return pitted) so I coat both my C.M. and my SS barrels. The Isonite on the outside of the stainless barrels cuts reflection down so my shooters like it.
I mentioned flaking of chrome lining inside the bore. Joel Kendrick is my contact at MMi TruTec, the company in Arkansas that does my Salt Bath Nitriding (they call it Isonite). He was mentioning using the Salt Bath Nitriding inside the bore prior to chrome lining it to get a better adhesion. He is currently working with one of the military contractors (maybe F.N., but don't quote me on that) relative to this process. He has given me permission to give out his contact information so I have cc'd him in my reply to you. He can give you the specifics of any testing and evaluation that has been done relative to this process and can give you quotes, etc. should you just be interested in the Isonite by itself as I use it.
One last quick note on chrome lining. Such barrels have the reputation of changing point of impact when heated up. I have found this to be very true. It may be due to the way the different metals (chrome molly and chrome) expand inside the bore. What ever the reason, it does happen and, again, this was verified on a state of the art machine rest. Isonite doesn't exhibit this characteristic.
I am sure you are well aware of some of the things I covered. Lacking specific questions, I just sort of used a shotgun approach which ended up being fairly long. If I left anything unanswered please feel free to get back to me. I have enabled my Spam Blocker to allow your e-mails to come in with out the automated hate responses that Earth Link sends out. I am sure Joel would also be glad to clarify the technical aspects of the Salt Bath Nitriding process. So far I am very pleased with it.
Best of luck!
At the present Mimi Trutec is not doing receivers as they do not have their FFL. They will do your non serialized parts.</div></div>
how about this?...
after 11,000 documented rounds.
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3795644.0
some posts from there...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Some have been wondering about the usefulness of barrel nitriding (meloniting, QPQ, salt bath nitriding). I can report some results based upon my barrel.
I shoot Across the Course competitively. The barrel on my spacegun is a cut rifle barrel, in 223, 26" long, with a 7.7 twist. The barrel has been shooting well since it was put on the rifle, and is still shooting well today after 11,000 documented rounds.
I wanted to see the condition of the bore, since most competitive barrels are long gone after this many rounds. A bench rest shooter friend has a bore scope, so we decided to take a look. I brought along a new barrel from the same manufacturer, chambered the same way as a comparison. What we found was astonishing (to us).
The 11,000 round barrel showed some wear and very minor pitting in the first half of the lead in area. In the new barrel, there was a small step where the rifling started for the lead in. That step was worn smooth in the 11,000 round barrel. After that, there was no visible signs of wear, pitting, firing cracking, or any other signs of defects. After the lead in, the rifling was sharp all the way to the muzzle which appeared in perfect condition compared to the new barrel. Unfortunately, I didn't measure how the seating depth has changed since new.
Most of the loads used were mild, with 55gr bullets. The rifle has also had many rounds of max loads 90gr bullets at 2800fps.
We looked at another non-nitrided 17Rem barrel after 7,000 full power rounds. This barrel had stopped shooting, meaning the bullets were hitting sideways. This barrel had no rifling for the first 1"-2", was severely firecracked for the first half of its length and had chunks of torn metal away. It was clear why this barrel wouldn't shoot.
This is merely one data point. My results are not scientific. I didn't have a control barrel, and didn't measure the throat as time progressed. I used mild loads with relatively light bullets which may have contributed significantly to the good barrel life.
Barrel nitriding has been available to shooters for the past several years, but I haven't seen much data on long term results. Perhaps others can share their experiences so we can determine if this process has merits for the shooting community. My results thus far are positive.
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will second that. I have only a 5,000 round PPC barrel to talk about. I have others and am still shooting them.
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great to know 1st hand documented info on nitrated bbls. A pal had 3 new bbls nitrated for his Rugers.
I documented 40K+ rounds in a .223 bbl. before it gave up the ghost using a moly coated 50g vmax @ 3300 fps since day one and all I got was jumped on for being a liar when I posted my personal experiance with moly.
I looking to have 2 bbls nitrated for my varmint rigs and that helps what you posted.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was the Armorer for the Army Reserve Shooting Team for over a decade so I do have quite a bit of experience with both processes.
As I am sure you know, most G.I. barrels are made from chrome molly steel which is more susceptible to corrosion than stainless steel. Chrome lining is used on G.I. bores both to extend their shooting life and to protect them from corrosion that can be a problem in battlefield conditions where maintenance is sometimes sporadic or insufficient. Chrome lining does a pretty good job of protecting battlefield weapons. One of the objections to chrome lining is that it is thought to decrease accuracy. This seems to be a valid criticism and is backed up by machine rest tests I have conducted of identical barrels (same manufacturer but half chrome lined and half not).
As you are aware most barrel "wear" is in the throat area. So eventually the hot gasses from the burning of the gunpowder will eat thru the chrome lining at the throat. It is rumored that at this point accuracy will plummet but I have not found that to be true. (Or if true, it is overstated or maybe only occurs for that short period when there is both chrome and bare steel in the throat simultaneously - just at the point of initial break thru.) Chrome lined barrels can continue to shoot well for thousands of rounds after the bare barrel steel at the back of the barrel (throat) has been exposed due to erosion of the chrome lining. Another criticism of chrome lining is that it can flake off later in the life of the barrel resulting in poor accuracy. Obviously, this could also cause maintenance problems if the user is depending on the chrome to ward off corrosion and thus is careless in his bore cleaning. If corrosion is allowed to occur pitting will result and that will ruin accuracy for sure.
Barrel pitting was one of the reasons I got involved in Salt Bath Nitriding. I was loosing nearly as many expensive match grade barrels to improper maintenance (causing pitting) as I was to wear out. This was under the relatively benign target shooting conditions. Obviously given the reputation of degraded accuracy, using chrome lining wasn't an option. So for the past couple of years I have been Salt Bath Nitriding all of my match barrels and haven't had a single one exhibit any pitting. During that 2 yr. period shooters have put anywhere from a few hundred rounds to thousands of rounds on said barrels. I don't know how long the coating will persist so at this point I am still evaluating it as a preservative. I don't know what will happen in another year or two when these barrels get more wear on them. Salt Bath Nitriding goes on both inside of the bore and on the outside surface. So, instead of 2 manufacturing steps you have combined them into one. Salt Bath Nitriding doesn't degrade accuracy one iota, unlike chrome lining. This was the first thing that I verified when I began using the process. I broke in a bunch of barrels and then machine rest tested them for group. I recorded and kept the targets, cleaned up the barrels, and sent them to MMi TruTec for the Isonite process. When they came back I reassembled them on the same receivers with the same torque settings, same bolt carrier assemblies, same flash suppressors, etc. Then they were retested with the same ammo lots. NO degradation in accuracy and about a 1% increase in muzzle velocity.
Chrome lined barrels seem to clean up rather easily after a range session. I found the ease of cleaning of Isonite coated barrels to be similar to chrome lined barrels. The Isonite barrels clean up the easiest of any non chrome lined barrels I have ever used. Isonite can be applied to either stainless or chrome molly but the factory needs to know what steel you are sending them because the application process varies a bit. Again, I only have about 2 yr. of cleaning experience with Salt Bath Nitrided barrels. I don't know if the ease of cleaning will continue as the barrels get more rounds on them. Generally speaking, most non coated barrels get harder to clean later in life. Although stainless has a reputation of being corrosion resistant it isn't corrosion proof (I have had plenty of them return pitted) so I coat both my C.M. and my SS barrels. The Isonite on the outside of the stainless barrels cuts reflection down so my shooters like it.
I mentioned flaking of chrome lining inside the bore. Joel Kendrick is my contact at MMi TruTec, the company in Arkansas that does my Salt Bath Nitriding (they call it Isonite). He was mentioning using the Salt Bath Nitriding inside the bore prior to chrome lining it to get a better adhesion. He is currently working with one of the military contractors (maybe F.N., but don't quote me on that) relative to this process. He has given me permission to give out his contact information so I have cc'd him in my reply to you. He can give you the specifics of any testing and evaluation that has been done relative to this process and can give you quotes, etc. should you just be interested in the Isonite by itself as I use it.
One last quick note on chrome lining. Such barrels have the reputation of changing point of impact when heated up. I have found this to be very true. It may be due to the way the different metals (chrome molly and chrome) expand inside the bore. What ever the reason, it does happen and, again, this was verified on a state of the art machine rest. Isonite doesn't exhibit this characteristic.
I am sure you are well aware of some of the things I covered. Lacking specific questions, I just sort of used a shotgun approach which ended up being fairly long. If I left anything unanswered please feel free to get back to me. I have enabled my Spam Blocker to allow your e-mails to come in with out the automated hate responses that Earth Link sends out. I am sure Joel would also be glad to clarify the technical aspects of the Salt Bath Nitriding process. So far I am very pleased with it.
Best of luck!
At the present Mimi Trutec is not doing receivers as they do not have their FFL. They will do your non serialized parts.</div></div>
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