Rifle Scopes Did The Research, Now The Decision, help?

[Blacktical]

So like a lot of posts in this subforum I am going to fall prey to the same common thread; optics.

I've done the searching through countless threads, reading on recommended scopes and the different brands and their reasons for the followings they have. So, hopefully this thread is more bearable than most; I've settled on 2 options.

Right now I have a SWFA SS 10x42 scope on order from SWFA but it is on back order and after speaking with SWFA they have no clue when it will be in.

This gave me time to do more research on the scope I have on order and may have been a blessing in disguise as I've learned quite a bit more about optics from this. In my digging through threads here I've come to the conclusion that a Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 scope might suit my needs better on my Savage 111 LRH .338 Lapua rifle than a simple 10x42 SWFA SS scope might. It costs a bit more but allows me a slightly higher quality piece of glass on a rifle that has a cartridge that is plenty capable of any distance the glass can display.

That being said, should I go with a FFP or SFP Viper PST should I decide to cancel the order and go with that scope instead? My main purpose for this rifle is to target shoot and possibly compete in competitions (much further on down the road).

So, cancel the order on the SWFA SS and go for the Viper PST? Or keep the SWFA SS and wait on it to come in and just use it for a while and move up as my skill level permits?

 

[scissorhands]

Depends.... its up to you.. fixed power or not. I like a lot of magnification, out of the two I would pick the Vortex. FFP vs. SFP? I like second focal plane scopes, so that is what I would get as well.

 

[Rob01]

Definitely the 6-24 Vortex over the SS 10x. More power and variable power is nice. Glass quality is very good with the Vortex and the scope has a lot of nice features not to mention the Vortex warranty.

FFP vs SFP is your choice. I would go FFP as I use the reticle a lot but it depends on your use in range you will be shooting that 338 and target size as well.

 

[Blacktical]

Definitely the 6-24 Vortex over the SS 10x. More power and variable power is nice. Glass quality is very good with the Vortex and the scope has a lot of nice features not to mention the Vortex warranty.

FFP vs SFP is your choice. I would go FFP as I use the reticle a lot but it depends on your use in range you will be shooting that 338 and target size as well.

Should I choose to use a SFP scope couldn't I use a spotting scope to calculate distances and sizes of targets?

I assume this scope has the longevity to grow with my rifle as my skill continues to grow?

Are there any other options to consider before I go after the Viper PST?

 

[Sniper Uncle]

The Vortex is a very good quality piece of glass. You won't regret having magnification with the 338LM. You might need it for the distance. Will it give you the kind of vertical adjustment you need? Not sure what mil or moa that particular scope has, but probably is enough. FFP v. SFP? Entirely your preference. I have both, I like both. Both have drawbacks. FFP----the reticle grows with the magnification----great for ranging, as the distance between marks is the same at all magnifications---bad for extreme distance, as the reticle can cover the POA. SFP----the reticle is the same size at all ranges---drawback, you need to use a certain magnification for ranging--on my NightForce, that is 22x.
Don't know if this helps at all....
Tim

 

[Rob01]

Should I choose to use a SFP scope couldn't I use a spotting scope to calculate distances and sizes of targets?

Just cut and pasted this from another thread I answered earlier.

That is one thing but the main reason is so you can use the reticle at any magnification. Use for more than ranging. For some reason people get hung up on ranging as the main reason to have FFP and it's not. It's way down the list today with the easy access to laser range finders that are much more accurate. Using the reticle for holds for elevation, wind and movers are far more useful than ranging. Also using the reticle as a ruler to adjust for corrections both on shots on target or zeroing the scope.

 

[Blacktical]

Just cut and pasted this from another thread I answered earlier.

That is one thing but the main reason is so you can use the reticle at any magnification. Use for more than ranging. For some reason people get hung up on ranging as the main reason to have FFP and it's not. It's way down the list today with the easy access to laser range finders that are much more accurate. Using the reticle for holds for elevation, wind and movers are far more useful than ranging. Also using the reticle as a ruler to adjust for corrections both on shots on target or zeroing the scope.

I read that in that thread which leads me to a question on that particular post.

Is this post saying that the SFP scopes are not suited for reticle holds? Or is it simply a bit more complex and/or different on a SFP.

Sorry, I should've clarified that I've read that post of yours.

 

[JB02]

No, it's just that the reticle holds are only valid at one magnification, usually at max power. At low powers (<3), it is difficult to see the reticle subtensions.

If you shoot several rapid strings, the heat from the barrel (as well as heat from objects far downrange on a hot day) will obscure your sight picture and this effect is most pronounced at high power. So, sometimes it's necessary to dial down the power to get a better picture of your target. When you have to do this, it's nice and convenient to have all of your reticle holds that you've doped your loads for remain the same.

I doubt that you would find yourself shooting several strings of 338 LM, and if you think that you will be dialed in at high power most of the time, a SFP scope will probably suit you just fine.

At the ranges that are achievable by your 338, you should get a scope with higher top end magnification than 10X. A descent SFP scope would be Nightforce's 8-32. For first focal plane I recommend either the Vortex Razor HD 5-20 or the Bushnell Elite Tactical 3-21. Just shell out the money for a good scope one time and be done with it. You'll be glad you did. If you really can't afford it, then go with the 6-24 Vortex PST, with either SFP or FFP based on what's available. Be sure not to skimp on a good rings and base set.

 

[vh20]

Blacktical - You should read this thread (linked below) while doing your research. My Savage .338LM destroyed my Viper PST in less than 100 rds. Another member went through three of them with the same problem as mine. The thread is about my frustration dialing in a load for this rifle. The part about the scope (which turned out to be the problem) comes in around post #27 if you don't want to read the whole thing. I came here researching for something else to replace mine with. I'm not making any comment against Vortex, or even the Viper PST in general. I'm just relating what happened to mine and someone else's. I will say their Customer Service is awesome.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/showthread.php?t=176102

 

[The Gump]

I will forever be a FFP guy due to the fact that my wind holds don't change with magnification.

 

[Crosshair]

Another direct competitor to the pst to consider is the sightron sIII 6-24x50
http://swfa.com/Sightron-6-24x50-SIII-30mm-Riflescope-P48418.aspx
If going with a second focal plane, I think it slightly better glass then the pst and can be had in mil/mil or moa/moa. For ffp, the pst will be great. Also, the Bushnell 6-24x50 has the G2DMR reticle which is excellent, and probably the most useful reticle of the bunch.
http://swfa.com/Bushnell-6-24x50-Elite-Tactical-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P51670.aspx

 

[Blacktical]

Those both seem like great optics but really really push my budget limits.

Thanks for pointing out your trouble with your PST, I'll be sure to read through the thread.

Should I look at a scope in the $1K mark would the Bushnell be the one to go with? I've read great things about it on here but at the time want considering a $1K scope.

 

[Crosshair]

If $1000 is pushing your budget too hard, you could check out the Burris 6.5-20x50 mtac. Its lightweight, got a nice reticle and seems like a good value.
http://swfa.com/Burris-65-20x50-MTAC-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P53424.aspx
In the end, it's all about what you can afford and getting the best you can for your current budget.

 

[Blacktical]

Crosshair - Did some digging on the internet for a price check on the Bushnell G2DMR and got a little confused after seeing these scopes listed on opticsplanet.com

http://www.opticsplanet.com/bushnell-elite-tactical-6-24x50-matte-mil-dot-argon-rifle-scope.html

http://www.opticsplanet.com/bushnell-elite-tactical-6-24x50mm-rifle-scope.html

When comparing to http://swfa.com/Bushnell-6-24x50-Elite-Tactical-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P51670.aspx the first link seems to match perfectly visually but the second link seems to match perfectly due to the G2DMR specs - which is right?

 

[Rob01]

Is this post saying that the SFP scopes are not suited for reticle holds? Or is it simply a bit more complex and/or different on a SFP.

Sorry, I should've clarified that I've read that post of yours.

Just more complex as the LCDR mentioned. It can be done and alot of people who use them get the halfway point between min and max magnification where the reticle can just be doubled and mark it on the ring. It's not always exactly half of the max power so it should be tested as the power rings aren't always perfectly marked.

I wouldn't sweat problems with the Vortex but if you wanted another direction you can look at the Bushnell line as well but the ones that are more affordable are SFP. As we talked about that's not a big problem on itself but it's up to you as it's your money. Here's a link to Liberty Optics Bushnell page. They do have a BUSET6245FG 6-24x50 in FFP with the excellent G2DMR reticle for $999. Give Scott a call tomorrow and talk to him about it. He's great to deal with.

http://www.libertyoptics.com/contents/en-us/d69.html#p147

 

[Crosshair]

Crosshair - Did some digging on the internet for a price check on the Bushnell G2DMR and got a little confused after seeing these scopes listed on opticsplanet.com

http://www.opticsplanet.com/bushnell-elite-tactical-6-24x50-matte-mil-dot-argon-rifle-scope.html

http://www.opticsplanet.com/bushnell-elite-tactical-6-24x50mm-rifle-scope.html

When comparing to http://swfa.com/Bushnell-6-24x50-Elite-Tactical-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P51670.aspx the first link seems to match perfectly visually but the second link seems to match perfectly due to the G2DMR specs - which is right?

That is confusing alright. The first link is the mil dot FFP model number (which is way cheaper apparently, and priced closer to swfa's SFP version) and the second is the g2dmr FFP - but with a picture of the brt-illuminated version! I don't know if the g2dmr reticle is licensed from Horus or not, I know the ones that are, are usually hundreds more. Geeze, the price on mil version is tempting if it is in fact FFP, but the g2 reticle may be worth the extra dough.

 

[Blacktical]

That is confusing alright. The first link is the mil dot FFP model number (which is way cheaper apparently, and priced closer to swfa's SFP version) and the second is the g2dmr FFP - but with a picture of the brt-illuminated version! I don't know if the g2dmr reticle is licensed from Horus or not, I know the ones that are, are usually hundreds more. Geeze, the price on mil version is tempting if it is in fact FFP, but the g2 reticle may be worth the extra dough.

Why is everyone after the G2DMR reticle?

I'm trying to figure out if that is a FFP model as well, I'll let you know if I get anywhere on that...

 

[Rob01]

The cheaper scope doesn't have an illuminated reticle and is SFP. The G2DMR 6-24 has an illuminated reticle and is FFP. FFP scopes usually cost more. The G2MR isn't a Horus reticle.

If you were looking at any of those call Scott for pricing before buying anywhere. It will be worth the phone call.

 

[Blacktical]

The cheaper scope doesn't have an illuminated reticle and is SFP. The G2DMR 6-24 has an illuminated reticle and is FFP. FFP scopes usually cost more. The G2MR isn't a Horus reticle.

If you were looking at any of those call Scott for pricing before buying anywhere. It will be worth the phone call.

Scott is the fella at libertyoptics.com I assume? I'll be sure to give him a call tomorrow morning and discuss the options with him.

I figured the first Bushnell was SFP because of the price, another thing that scared me is the turret units aren't listed as far as I can tell. I really don't want a Mil/MOA scope on my hands.

 

[Rob01]

Yup Scott is the man at Liberty Optics. He is also here on the Hide as Liberty Optics.

You are right it is MOA/Mil. Listed in the specs:

Click Value (in.@100yds./ mm@100m): .25 / 7

 

[scudzuki]

Those both seem like great optics but really really push my budget limits.

Thanks for pointing out your trouble with your PST, I'll be sure to read through the thread.

Should I look at a scope in the $1K mark would the Bushnell be the one to go with? I've read great things about it on here but at the time want considering a $1K scope.

There's a guy selling a Bushnell ET6245FG (FFP, G2DMR reticle) for $800 right now.
Very good scope at that price.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/showthread.php?t=176898

Joe

 

[Blacktical]

There's a guy selling a Bushnell ET6245FG (FFP, G2DMR reticle) for $800 right now.
Very good scope at that price.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/showthread.php?t=176898

Joe

Just saw this, problem is generating the funds at this point. I'd contact him in an effort to see if he could hold it for me but I know it's a first come first serve basis...

 

[Eric B.]

"The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the joy of a great price."

Wait, patiently save your money and get a Bushnell HDMR with an illuminated Horus 59 reticle. Coming out in April according to what a Bushnell rep told me a few days ago.
Getting both a Horus reticle AND an illuminated reticle (center dot) for the HDMR price and quality is the best quality and features you'll find for your money.

 

[Blacktical]

"The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the joy of a great price."

Wait, patiently save your money and get a Bushnell HDMR with an illuminated Horus 59 reticle. Coming out in April according to what a Bushnell rep told me a few days ago.
Getting both a Horus reticle AND an illuminated reticle (center dot) for the HDMR price and quality is the best quality and features you'll find for your money.

Any word on how much these will be going for?

How much better will this be than the 6-24x50 G2DMR?

 

[jerry1]

I am a big believer in saving up money and buying top quality. You can get into a used Nightforce for around 1200.00 if you are lucky and wait. If your interest is in the .338 Lapula then you probably want to shoot long distances. You will like the higher power scopes. Many people on this forum have gone the cheaper scope route and so have I. In the end you will wish you saved longer and bought more quality. I made that mistake a few times when I was young and foolish. Also think about the recoil you are asked the scope to contain. A big Lapula has real recoil and its ability to wreck scopes is well known. There is really no escape from quality. You do get what you pay for.

 

[Blacktical]

I am a big believer in saving up money and buying top quality. You can get into a used Nightforce for around 1200.00 if you are lucky and wait. If your interest is in the .338 Lapula then you probably want to shoot long distances. You will like the higher power scopes. Many people on this forum have gone the cheaper scope route and so have I. In the end you will wish you saved longer and bought more quality. I made that mistake a few times when I was young and foolish. Also think about the recoil you are asked the scope to contain. A big Lapula has real recoil and its ability to wreck scopes is well known. There is really no escape from quality. You do get what you pay for.

That is why I'm jumping up my budget a bit, id much rather get a scope that can grow with me and my rifle as well as take a beating and hold zero. From all that I've read it seems like the Bushnell 6-24x50 G2DMR is pretty damn good. As much as I'd like a NF I think I'm going to prefer a FFP scope at this point for possible ranging I may do down the road.

 

[Blacktical]

Spoke with Scott today and he said he thinks the Bushnell HDMR with G2DMR reticle is my best choice.

Apparently the HDMR has 120 MOA of elevation whereas the G2DMR has 60 MOA for elevation. He said he could foresee me out shooting the elevation on the G2DMR sometime later on as my skill grows and thinks the better buy would be the HDMR for that reason.

Anyone have anything else to chime in on before I make a final decision?

 

[scissorhands]

Just bite the bullet and get a NF, it will only make you cry once...LOL I had terrible quality issues with a Busnell Elite tactical scope and the customer service was not good either.. Nightforce on the other hand has good CS and a good product.

Rob

 

[HD1911]

The Bushnell Elite Tactical 3.5-21 w/ G2 reticle is an Amazing scope for the money. I love mine. You can't go wrong with it.

 

[Blacktical]

The Bushnell Elite Tactical 3.5-21 w/ G2 reticle is an Amazing scope for the money. I love mine. You can't go wrong with it.

I keep hearing the 3.5-21x50 G2DMR is better for me than the 6-24x50 G2DMR scope due to the fact that the 6-24 has a 30mm tube whereas the 3.5-21 has a 34mm tube which allows for a greater erector tube travel which leads to a greater range of MOA for elevation.

Is this correct? I really want to make sure that I am choosing the right scope here as this is a lot of dough to just toss out without serious consideration.

 

[Crosshair]

Everthing I've read on the HDMR sounds killer, but at about the same price point there is the SWFA 5-20x50 HD to look at too (it's got 100+moa elev). I know alot of guys have said that both of these scopes compare well with some over the $2000 mark. I'd be tuff to find a NF in ffp for what these cost, and I doubt they give up anything optically to the NF nxs's.

 

[steve123]

I keep hearing the 3.5-21x50 G2DMR is better for me than the 6-24x50 G2DMR scope due to the fact that the 6-24 has a 30mm tube whereas the 3.5-21 has a 34mm tube which allows for a greater erector tube travel which leads to a greater range of MOA for elevation.

Is this correct? I really want to make sure that I am choosing the right scope here as this is a lot of dough to just toss out without serious consideration.

The 3.5-21 is higher grade scope and costs more. You get what pay for and it's quite competitive with $3000 scopes except no illume. Not so with the mid grade Bushnell tacticals, they compete with the Vortex PST line in cost and quality level.

 

[Blacktical]

Everthing I've read on the HDMR sounds killer, but at about the same price point there is the SWFA 5-20x50 HD to look at too (it's got 100+moa elev). I know alot of guys have said that both of these scopes compare well with some over the $2000 mark. I'd be tuff to find a NF in ffp for what these cost, and I doubt they give up anything optically to the NF nxs's.

The 3.5-21x50 G2DMR has 120 MOA adjustment for elevation, not sure if I want to go with SWFA right now personally. I had a 10x42 SWFA SS on order from them for 6 weeks and every week I called to see if there were any updates on the back order I was met with uninformed and disorganized help.

Scott over at Liberty Optics seems to have his game together and is on the ball even with the current surge in demand.

 

[Individual1]

Out of these reticles on a FFP scope.. Which would be easiest for a newby like me.. Or one that I SHOULD get so I don't regret getting a different one down the road?

G2
TRMR
H59

 

[steve123]

G2 for primarily dialing. H-59 for primarily holding over.