Whats the big deal with TacOps rifle?

[Aries64]

Tactical Operations: When you care enough to send your very best...

I will preface this statement with the fact that I have not handled one of these rifles, so cannot comment on whether the price is worth it or not.

I'll preface this reply by stating that what Lowlight posted really nailed all points, and that what I'm about to say is truly said without malice and absolutely devoid of emotional and monetary investment. I speak from very long experience. That said, it's fair to say that since you haven't handled or shot a Tac Ops rifle that you can't comment on whether the price is worth it or not. The reality is that anyone who hasn't personally handled and/or shot a Tac Ops rifle has no basis for comparison with other rifles. There are lots of little refinements on Tac Ops rifles that most people never notice until those details are pointed-out to them. These include, but are not limited to the smoothly-radiused edges on the Tac Ops Bottom Metal, Tac Ops Recoil Lug, leading edges on the bolt and bolt lugs, the “timing” the screws of Anschutz Rails, and the extra thought and execution of the Tac Ops Bolt Knob Conversion.

Soft, smooth-radius edge on Tac Ops Recoil Lug. Mike was kind enough to radius the edge of my Receiver too (thanks Mike!):


Soft radiuses on 303 Stainless Tac Ops Bottom Metal. Mike doesn't bitch about 303 being a PITA to machine and a bitch on tooling:



Here are a couple of photos showing the radiuses on leading edge of the bolt as well as the bolt lugs:





Tac Ops "times" the screws that fasten the Anschutz Rail to the underside of the stock. A 10" Anschutz Rail has four screws:


Unlike most "tactical" bolt knobs, when properly-installed, the TOBKC strengthens the handle shank, and can increase clearance between the scope and stock:



Those are just a few touches that are visible on the outside - when you move beyond the surface there are about 20 other things that Tac Ops does differently to their rifles. Some of these things are proprietary while others are step-based. Together as a system, they are why Tac Ops rifles are so smooth, reliable, and consistently-accurate. For instance, the POI of Tac Ops rifles doesn’t change from Cold Bore to Warm Bore. Aside from the extremely precise machining to square-up the receiver face, threads, bolt face, lugs, and chamber - two other things directly related to Tac Ops rifle’s CB to DB zero POI shift that I can mention is that Tac Ops uses a special receiver-to-barrel fit. What?

The barrel torque used by most gunsmiths’ ranges between 50-60 ft./lbs. - sometimes 100 ft./lbs and the torque is only borne by the first three (3) threads (standard barrel-to-receiver fit). The problem here is that the barrel and receiver heat-up and expand during firing at different rates. This causes the receiver-to-barrel fit to loosen, resulting in POI change.

The special receiver-to-barrel fit on Tac Ops rifles provides load-bearing on 100% of the mating threads, allowing Tac Ops barrels to be torqued much, much higher (between 220-280 ft./lbs. depending upon the rifle and caliber). The perfectly-machined receiver-to-barrel thread fit combined with very high torque do not allow any slop to develop between the receiver and barrel as the two heat-up, resulting in consistent POI from CB to WB/HB.

That being said, I think the OP's question is a legitimate one from the context of getting the best bang for the buck for your intended purpose.

In terms “of getting the best bang for the buck for your intended purpose” the OP (nightwolf0215)’s question would be a legitimate one IF it was innocuous. However, like 18Echo and Lowlight I recognize trolling. A loaded, beaten-to-death question asked by a low post count “member” who just slunk quietly away after posting.

Thru the years, I have had over 8 custom rifles built by such gunsmiths as R Bros, SSG, Montour County Rifles, Centershot Rifles. All were different calipers, and all were tack drivers. All were 1/2 MOA rifles out to 800 yards, and some, like my 7 Rogue and 338 built by R Bros were shot out to 1300 yards, and were still 3/4 or less MOA rifles.
All of these rifles were built for $3500 or less with custom actions and top notch components.

Again, Lowlight nailed the OP’s question, as well as your and other questions in this thread. I like the fact that Lowlight said these things, since his words tend to carry much greater weight than what most others - including myself, say. Once again, custom actions aren’t necessarily better (and don't not magically make a rifle more accurate) than a rifle built on a trued Remington action. That’s a function of picking the right gunsmith. Sure, out-of-the-box a custom action is typically machined to much tighter tolerances, but it’s not like they’re all perfect. Off the top of my head I can think of custom actions from four (4) manufacturers’ held in very high esteem that I’ve personally seen that had been finished poorly, had insufficient lug contact, incorrect timing, and a few other issues. Buying a custom receiver does not guarantee everything is perfectly square, well-finished, or that a rifle built off of it will be more accurate and more dependable than a rifle built off of the lowly Remington 700. I’d go with a “polished turd” Remington 700 built by Tac Ops over a custom action screwed-together by Joe Bob gunsmith any day of the week.

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't these TacOp rifles in the $4500 range?
My point of this post is that I have not found it necessary to spent an additional $1-1,500 for my needs.
I think the jist of the OP's question was what is to be gained with the extra money on these rifles over other custom builds.
No disrespect intended to those that own these rifles, as I can appreciate quality work based on the fact that I have gone the custom route on many occasions.

Depending upon the model of Tac Ops rifle and the features that one is looking at said Tac Ops rifles might be in the $4,500.00 range. You may not have found it “necessary” to spend what you perceive as an additional $1,000.00-$1,500.00 for your needs. And as far as the OP’s question of what is to be gained with “the extra money” on Tac Ops rifles over “custom builds” (besides the extreme near bench rest accuracy out of a tactical rifle, fit and finish of a Holland & Holland Custom, the confidence that you’ll make the shot if you do your part, and the satisfaction of knowing you own the best I really can’t quantify it.

Furthermore, no matter how dependable, consistently accurate, or how finely crafted and obsessively finished Tac Ops rifles are there are people who are less discerning and/or who place less importance on refinements, or just don’t know enough to realize that there really are differences and to appreciate those differences. But it’s impossible to see, feel, and experience those differences when you haven’t handled and fired one. Me, I’m into it.

As Lowlight said “It’s a long term investment, it’s a collector’s piece, and it’s a shooter”.


Keith

 

[scudzuki]

"Soft radiuses on 303 Stainless Tac Ops Bottom Metal. Mike doesn't bitch about 303 being a PITA to machine and a bitch on tooling"

Really. I use 303 stainless for my firearms projects because it is the easiest machining stainless I can get. It's not tough at all to machine. Now 304 or 316, those are a bitch.

Joe

 

[Black Ops]

"Soft radiuses on 303 Stainless Tac Ops Bottom Metal. Mike doesn't bitch about 303 being a PITA to machine and a bitch on tooling"

Really. I use 303 stainless for my firearms projects because it is the easiest machining stainless I can get. It's not tough at all to machine. Now 304 or 316, those are a bitch.

Joe

The guy gets one number off and gets his nuts handed to him , come on Joe cut him some slack

The First and second run on the Tac Ops BM’s were in 304 SS and the 3rd and 4th have been in 303. I have no doubt Keith heard me being a PITA on the 1st & 2ND production and that’s why his posts reflects that. Of Course he is not a machinist and had no idea that 303 is easy to work with and 304 is never fun...

Mike
Tac Ops

 

[Aries64]

Don't knock em' til' you've tried em'

It seem disingenuous to say that because you can't afford one, you don’t know what true quality is.
While I can afford one, I don't see the need to spend more money for one. At some point the extra cost gives you very little return
on your money in perceived accuracy or quality.

Is that what you read into what some of the replies here have stated? I've gone back and read ALL of the posts in this thread a couple of times, and I suppose that one could take it that way if they are so inclined. While I don't believe that any one has implied that "because you can't afford one, you don’t know what true quality is", as I said in my first reply to you, "The reality is that anyone who hasn't personally handled and/or shot a Tac Ops rifle has no basis for comparison with other rifles". If you really want to talk about a disingenuous statement, you should consider that your assumption and assertion that "the extra cost gives you very little return on your money in perceived accuracy or quality" is rather glaring based on your admitted lack of experience. You said "I have not handled one of these rifles, so cannot comment on whether the price is worth it or not".

It is human nature to defend a product you spent a lot of money on, whether it be a scope,rifle,ect. If you didn't, it would bring into doubt your decision to buy it in the first place.
It is true that the people that buy these are discriminating buyers, and are looking for something special. But I also wonder if maybe some of them buy them just to say they own one.
Most of my custom rifle builds came with targets,( proving there accuracy) along with load data and dummy rounds showing ogive measurements for the bullet used on the target.
I think most good gunsmiths would want to do this to prove the accuracy of their build.

I don't know the reasons for every civilian who buys a Tac Ops rifle, but there are plenty who buy multiples. I've been shooting for 40 years now, and have handled and shot a lot of rifles over those years including many built by world-renowned gunsmiths, including several rifles built by well-known builders here on the Hide'. Mike Rescigno has been building rifles for thirty (30) years now, and my relationship with him has afforded me the priviledge and opportunity to shoot of weapons all types with him. And while I've known Mike about 20 or so years, it wasn't until 2008 that I figured I should buy my own Tac Ops instead of "demo'ing them. I'd say I did more than enough "research", and feel that I made the best decision by buying a Tac Ops rifle.

Oh, and the 700+ TEAMS worldwide that use Tac Ops platforms use their hard, and recommend Tac Ops to other TEAMS based on their Tac Ops platforms and experience with them. After demo'ing Tac Ops platforms TEAMS never doubt their performance or the Brass' decision to buy them.


Keith

 

[usafabrad]

Mike, this may be a breach of protocol, but what is your take on the Obermyer 5R rifling that krieger is offering, and would you ever consider that rifling pattern in your builds?

 

[okiefired]

Ha! I've got way behind I guess, I still thought George was THE man on this site to build rifles. For years if you didn't deal with GAP, you were an idiot here. Guess I'll just continue to shoot ragged holes w my few factory guns that will do it. Can't wait to see who'll be the next sheriff in this town.

Okie

 

[Black Ops]

For years if you didn't deal with GAP, you were an idiot here

Hmmm, and if you didn't buy from me you were into Black Men with Big Dogs, I undertsand you completly. BTT

Mike, this may be a breach of protocol, but what is your take on the Obermyer 5R rifling that krieger is offering, and would you ever consider that rifling pattern in your builds?

If you’re looking for extreme accuracy I would stay with the 4L&G all day long Though the 5R from Krieger is not a bad choice as it cleans easily but definitely NOT as accurate.


Mike
Tac Ops

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Mike your a crazy little man, lol. Now don't flake next week and come have lunch with mike and I

 

[Black Ops]

Mike your a crazy little man, lol. Now don't flake next week and come have lunch with mike and I

Joe I will do my best as Bush told me your going down range for several month Brother and you won't be on the block for a while. I'm just finishing a Special Project for an Alphabet Agency and promise to do my best and show up. I'll bring the Tac Ops FN240 and M2 if you don't mind just finished a Can for it ( M2 ) so we can put some rounds down range at distance

Mike
Tac Ops

 

[Bluejazz]

Aries64
All well stated points.
Most of my comments to the OP were to show that it has not been necessary for ME to spend the additional money in order to end up with very accurate rifles built with high quality parts, by top notch gunsmiths.

Now, if the OP was a troll, it's just wasted time posting on here.

 

[den42]

So after reading the post about TacOps rifles, I have a question for the OP of this thread, how is you have not gone out and sold one of your nuts, called Mike and ordered one of these works or art yet??

 

[Flyingbullseye]

Keith nice pictures. I am curious about something maybe either you, LL or Mike can answer so pardon my ignorance. The 4th picture of your bolt the anti binding rail has a small corner filed out of it. What purpose does doing that add? I've never seen anyone do that and have not idea what that small area filed out would help. Its just something that seemed to stick out to me.

 

[dddoo7]

Like lowlight said, custom actions are not all they are cut out to be. I bought a new top name custom action for my latest build. I talked to several gun builders and finally settled on TacOps to put my rifle together. Every other gun builder told me that my custom action would not need any work-- just screw the barrel on and go. Mike told me up-front that most custom actions are not up to his standards. When he started putting the rifle together, the custom action needed to be trued because it only had 30% lug contact. I really wish I had saved my money and just let him build on a 700 action.

This goes to show though the attention to detail that Mike puts into these builds. The other big name smiths were not even going to check the action to see if it was true.

Are the tac-ops rifles more expensive? yes, but you truly get what you pay for. My factory r-700 sps-v barreled action is shooting under 1/2". I would be depressed to spend $3500+ to have someone else build me a custom rifle and then it only shoot as well as my $600 SPS-V.

 

[Iggy]

Here is the order in which I value my TacOps:

1. It's ability to shoot.
2. The quality of the craftsmanship.
3. Mike's commitment to his products.
4. Price.

I really don't care one way or the other on a custom action, at the end of the day I want to the rifle to shoot light out. Having the gun look pretty is just an added bonus. But in the case of TacOps rifles, you can have your cake and eat it too when it comes to form and function. TacOps rifles have a signature look that everyone can recognize. They look great, but more important they shoot.

Like Lowlight mentioned, Mike remembers every rifle that has left his shop. He knows his product intimately and stands behind it with the best rifle guarantee out there. When you really dig into the price it's not that much more for another rifle with this much work into it. To me the hardest part was the wait, because at the time it was my only rifle.

I see where some are coming from, but at the same time the questions are asked without knowing or having seen the work first hand. The best example I can think of related to this is cars. You can buy a Honda, dump a lot of money into it, and it could go as fast as Ferrari for a lot less, but in the end it's still a Honda. With a TacOps you are buying a Ferrari and everything that makes a Ferrari a Ferrari. It's tuned for speed and looks right out off the factory floor.

 

[okiefired]

Hmmm, and if you didn't buy from me you were into Black Men with Big Dogs, I undertsand you completly. BTT




If you’re looking for extreme accuracy I would stay with the 4L&G all day long Though the 5R from Krieger is not a bad choice as it cleans easily but definitely NOT as accurate.


Mike
Tac Ops

Well Mike, not sure what you ment but I certainly don't know you and have never even seen one of your builds but I'm sure they're top notch and I didn't mean anything personal in my post. I'm actually tickled that you're making such great builds with factory receivers.....believe it or not, many of us here have thought that was totally doable for years. Fact is, this place is really bad about having "flavor of the day". There's a lot of great builders on this site and I have no doubt your one of them but I promise you brother within the next year or two you'll be shuffled off to the side and there'll be another who is the latest and greatest.......even though you'll still be building high quality rifles like you probably always have. BTW, I got no interest in your big black friends.

Okie

 

[Shooter McGavin]

If $4500 is to much don't look here: Rifles | Surgeon Rifles

Now they have expensive rifles. I am always hesitant about calling Mike because I always end up ordering something from him. Last time I taked to him I ordered 5.56 can. My personal favorite right now is my .260 Tango that Tac Ops made me. However, that might change once the ATF is done with my paper work and I get my Green Hornet home. I will always keep my 6.5x55 Swede that thing just shoots lights out every time. I need to start taking pics like Keith. Those are just awesome, Keith. You really have an eye for photography.

 

[nightwolf0215]

Sweet to see this thread got so much attention. Glad to see yall enjoying it.

My question intention was simply to see what people think about the TacOps rifle. No doubt they are like pieces of arts and I respect that. The amount of work put into one rifle is amazing and the result shows that. But it peaked my curiosity when I see that TacOps are such fine rifles, yet none of the competitive shooter listed in the sticky thread somewhere on the forum uses Mike's rifle. Why is that? Heres a link to it.

Again, no one is doubting the quality of TacOps. I actually still am kicking myself for not getting that Tango51 for sale locally. :/

 

[Shooter McGavin]

Sweet to see this thread got so much attention. Glad to see yall enjoying it.

My question intention was simply to see what people think about the TacOps rifle. No doubt they are like pieces of arts and I respect that. The amount of work put into one rifle is amazing and the result shows that. But it peaked my curiosity when I see that TacOps are such fine rifles, yet none of the competitive shooter listed in the sticky thread somewhere on the forum uses Mike's rifle. Why is that? Heres a link to it.

Again, no one is doubting the quality of TacOps. I actually still am kicking myself for not getting that Tango51 for sale locally. :/

Here's why I don't: 1st You end up hitting your rifle against cement barriers or metal ladders and the rifle gets scuffed up. My barrel and stock are pretty scratch up on my TRG 22. 2nd The other thing is detachable magazine are really a must at Tactical matches. It's not because they look cool. It's because when ever you move you need mag out and bolt up. This shows the ROs the weapon is empty and your a safe to move. Without a detachable mag you would need to unload and reload for every movement on certain stages at a competition. Since, competitions are timed events that would slow you down and hurt your chances of winning. Also, it is more important to be able to read wind and know your rifle and caliber for a tactical match then being able to shoot one hole groups. One nice thing would be for cold bore shots, if that is a stage at competition, because Tac Ops are the same no matter what. Still for me it just better to record your cold bore shot and use a rifle you're willing to scuff up. Mike and his guys have made a rifle in an AI chassis before, so I don't think it would be out of the question to use a Tac Ops for competitions.

 

[dddoo7]

The 260 he is building for me will have a surgeon bottom metal. He will do dbm's, it is just not the norm.


--Daniel

 

[Lowlight]

Well Mike, not sure what you ment but I certainly don't know you and have never even seen one of your builds but I'm sure they're top notch and I didn't mean anything personal in my post. I'm actually tickled that you're making such great builds with factory receivers.....believe it or not, many of us here have thought that was totally doable for years. Fact is, this place is really bad about having "flavor of the day". There's a lot of great builders on this site and I have no doubt your one of them but I promise you brother within the next year or two you'll be shuffled off to the side and there'll be another who is the latest and greatest.......even though you'll still be building high quality rifles like you probably always have. BTW, I got no interest in your big black friends.

Okie

Nobody is telling you to buy one, and for what most people do on this site, a Tac Ops rifle is not necessarily the right answer.

For years most people try to butt their heads against anything they read, like GAP, George has been a member of this site since the beginning and for better than 10 years thousands of people have been using his rifles. Not just a vocal few on SH. Same with Tac Ops, they have been in business since the 1980s, so hardly a "new sheriff" in town. But some people just learn about certain makes so it peaks their interest.

The mission for the rifle should come first... if you have no idea what you plan do with it, then there is no way to spec out a rifle to suit your needs.

Nobody is saying you have to have ANYTHING, what people who have them are saying is, "yes they are worth the money" and here is why....

If your reading comprehension sucks, or if you see an agenda in everything, then you might make posts like above. Where everything is shiny and new and everyone has to have it, meanwhile, you are ignoring history. Like the track record of GAP, not just on this site, or the fact Tac Ops has been making rifles for longer than most.

To each their own, but mission first.

 

[Night Eagle]

ive read through this post a few times here and maybe i missed it, but it has occured to me that these weapons such as tac-ops rifles and gap rifles and such can be compared to samari swords. there are many makes and models of samari type swords out there...everything from decoration, to acutall battle swords. ive heard some of these swords take months to build.

the end result is the answer. when you spend that much time on a weapon, and are essentially building/specing it to the closest atom, as opposed to the closest millimeter, or even the closest quarter inch...closest atom is gonna win every time 100% of the time. especially if your job is to go out and actually use that weapon in battle, on a daily basis, and you know that every day, the way that weapon functions will either save your life and your buddies life, or possibly get you and your buddies killed...then the cost is a no brainer. i will save and scrounge and do whatever i have to do to weild that weapon... and correct me if im wrong, it would seem that is just one of tac ops/gap target market.

if you want a weapon, that will do as above...ie close to perfection as you can get ie magical...lol, pay the man his money, and pray the wait time isnt too long. you will end up with an investment / weapon you can pass on to your grandchildren, and they to theirs. if you dont need / want that much weapon, then there are many other ways to go.



night eagle

 

[okiefired]

I'll admit, I haven't made my point very well. I'll try one more time and then I'm done, think what you will. I know I don't have to buy one, thank God. I'm not a pro, so I don't have to spend this kind of money but I'd have no problem doing it if need be. My point was and is...these sites (inclusive but not exclusive to SH) seem to go through periods where they tought one builder above all others. IMHO, there's only so much one can do to make a rifle shoot "right" and all of the top tear builders know how to do that. I have very little dought that Mike knows what he's doing....just as i have very little dought that George, Terry, David, the boys at Sergeon and several others I've talked to on this site know how to do it also. I don't think there's any one of these kind of people who's head n shoulders above the rest......well, maybe Tubbs has a lgitmate claim. (;

 

[clmayfield]

Conventional wisdom is that you go with a custom action because resale value will be better and the actions tend to be of high quality. That is true for pretty much everything but a Tac Ops. I saw a Tango go up for sale here and it was gone in 45 minutes. Don't worry about the resale value of a Tac Ops. They are not exactly a dime a dozen.

Years ago, we had this debate that Mike's guns were so accurate because they sacrificed accuracy for reliability... basically, his tolerances were too tight. The real key is that his stuff is square and concentric. These things have never created reliability issues. His headspace is tight, through I understand he has loosened that up a bit. People were writing on here years ago that the tight headspace makes it so that a spec of dust will prevent you from chambering a round. Utter nonsense. A spec of dust is far smaller than a thou. Most people who are anal about handloading know a dirty little secret... that you can run a headspace of negative 2 thou without problems in a lot of cases. Zero or one thou is plenty reliable. Mike runs greater than that. The naysayers were flat wrong. They just didn't understand how Mike does what he does. The answer is that he has years of experience and he is a maniac about quality. Personally, I am not sure that I would want to work for a perfectionist like him, but I sure would want him to build my gun. Or my anything for that matter.

Why a Tac Ops? Accuracy, fit, and finish. That simple. You can get close to Tac Ops accuracy from other smiths with handloads. You will not get better fit and finish anywhere. Period. Maybe on an individual rifle to individual rifle basis. But every rifle Mike turns out is guaranteed to be solid. I have never heard of anyone having an issue with a poorly made Tac Ops. It is right or it doesn't leave his shop. This might make the wait frustrating as he will be almost there and decide he doesn't like something about the build. But it is right. Every time.

 

[Edds]

What does Tac Ops do to a 700 action that Chad Dixon doesn't do?

 

[clmayfield]

Not part of the action, but Mike uses a proprietary reamer designed specifically for FGMM. If he uses class 3 threads for the suppressor, I think he probably uses that or better for the barrel tenon (I don't know for a fact). Threads are another place where tighter tolerances equal better reliability, not poorer reliability. The Birdsong finish yields a very smooth action that does not require lubrication (grease is great, but it will attract dust/dirt particles). He cryo treats. This is just the non-proprietary stuff that I can find on the Internet. I imagine there are a few tricks he doesn't talk about. I found an interesting thing or two by examination, but he didn't really want me to publicize them. Trust me, the dude is smart, he has been doing this a while, and he has it figured out in a way that most don't.

Many would argue that these things aren't necessary... but that is what you get with a Tac Ops. It is not necessary to time all the screws and bolts, but he does it anyway. He is a nut.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Not part of the action, but Mike uses a proprietary reamer designed specifically for FGMM. If he uses class 3 threads for the suppressor, I think he probably uses that or better for the barrel tenon (I don't know for a fact). Threads are another place where tighter tolerances equal better reliability, not poorer reliability. The Birdsong finish yields a very smooth action that does not require lubrication (grease is great, but it will attract dust/dirt particles). He cryo treats. This is just the non-proprietary stuff that I can find on the Internet. I imagine there are a few tricks he doesn't talk about. I found an interesting thing or two by examination, but he didn't really want me to publicize them. Trust me, the dude is smart, he has been doing this a while, and he has it figured out in a way that most don't.

Many would argue that these things aren't necessary... but that is what you get with a Tac Ops. It is not necessary to time all the screws and bolts, but he does it anyway. He is a nut.

I find threads like this and gap threads funny with people TRYING to find reasons to hate. Nobody is saying surgeon, kmw, chad, roscoe, or anyone else can't build u a accurate, reliable gun. The negative people say "I know I don't have to buy one" them stop talking. It's been explained all the extra work and detail in Mike's guns. Guys like Mike, Terry, etc build more for departments and operators anyways. I'm sure they would rather build 20 guns for a seat team then deal with 20 different people online and i don't blame them. This same argument has to happen over and over again with why is a aw, DTA, surgeon, kmw, Tac ops, gap worth it. It's ALL personal preference and what u want out of your gun. Buy and be happy.

 

[pawprint2]

This is an interesting thread. I did not realize that custom actions needed extra work similar to a factory Remington. It makes sense though if you are chasing extreme tolerances and accuracy.

It makes me feel better about using a factory Remmy for my 1st custom. Next task - become rich and buy a Tac Ops.

Very good point! I asked the question not that long ago, regarding the "trueness" of the various "custom" actions. Note: by custom, I don't mean a one off, made to the customers specs, but rather a "small" shops 700 "clone", etc. I don't think there are that many true custom actions around, a few but few. I would like to know how many of these actions are actually checked for "trueness" by the various smiths that build with them, and how they compare to one another vs. the "stock" rem.. I am NOT interested in the various posters, "I have a -------it shoots a 1/4MOA all the time no matter what I do, it must be within .000001!!! Or, any other post that "measures "trueness" based on a rifle they had built. In my experience, if you were to have a tool and gauge shop measure all the dimensions of a group of actions, it would be easy to rank them in "trueness". I believe some gunsmiths may know this info, but are not willing to share it as they don't want to create any problems for themselves. But, nonetheless, it would be some very interesting info, no to mention how a "trued" 700 from various smiths stacks up, without this factual info, some of the info needed to make a smart purchase is opinion. Arguing over how many teeth a camel has, rather than go out of the tent and count them. Just saying....

 

[dddoo7]

I believe that saying an action is "trued" is like saying a car is "souped up". It all depends what your tolerances are and definitions of "trued" are. I had friends in highschool who thought a cold air intake was "souped up". The proof is in the pudding. How do they run?

The reality is, there are some great smiths out there. Some of them build rifles that shoot 1/4 or under every time. The difference is, there are very few builders who build EVERY rifle so accurate that it will shoot 1/4" or under every time.

As said earlier, I had mike build on a custom action and it needed more machine work to be up to his standards. I am very glad that he checked and fixed the action because I want a gun that will shoot better than an average custom rifle. The average rifle builder probably doesn't even check customs for trueness.

So in response to the last post. Yes-- it would be interesting to see a set of actions from several manufacturers checked for trueness and compared to a factory 700 action. I am willing to bet the custom actions aren't much better than factory 700's.


--Daniel

 

[Desert Fox]

proprietary reamer designed specifically for FGMM.

Can you elaborate on this. What is a proprietary reamer. What does it mean. Can I call PTG, Clymer, JGS and order one or they won't sell it to me.

My smith chambered my 308 with an Obermeyer designed reamer spec for 175 grain SMK FGMM. Does this qualify as proprietary reamer. As far as I know, JGS sold it to him and did not ask Mr. Obermeyer for permission.

 

[Landon]

So in response to the last post. Yes-- it would be interesting to see a set of actions from several manufacturers checked for trueness and compared to a factory 700 action. I am willing to bet the custom actions aren't much better than factory 700's.


--Daniel

After reading this thread and getting some good information I asked the gunsmith who built my rifle what he thought of using custom actions to build rifles and the need to be "trued." His response was that all rifle actions should be trued no matter who manufactures them. Even the best custom actions can be out more than you would like to believe. He would not give me any hard data but said he would not consider putting together a custom action without truing unless the customer insisted after he gave his pitch on the need for truing.

He said buying a custom action is worth if it has the features you want but a factory remington action can be made to shoot as accurate as any action. The smith I talked to also said that Remington actions seem to be more reliable in harsh conditions than many of the custom actions.

Since this seems to be the case, and not what I was led to believe when initially looking to have a rifle built, TacOps using standard remington actions seems to be a better idea than I originally knew.

 

[Quarter Horse]

If you look at accurate rifles in a historical context you will see little has changed. Harry Pope is a good example. To paraphrase a sign above his workbench; "If you need to know when your barrel will be done take your work someplace else." Take a look at the values of Pope attributed rifles and consider that few of these rifles were actually built by Pope. TacOps rifles may be an excellent investment. Gold took a dump last week, TacOps rifles did not. The market always recognizes quality.

 

[diderr]

why do they have two piece base instead of a one piece?

 

[dddoo7]

why do they have two piece base instead of a one piece?

Mike makes his own 2 piece base. It is what he prefers due to less stress on the receiver after it has been trued.

It also allows more a access to the loading port.

--Daniel

 

[Edds]

It is what he prefers due to less stress on the receiver after it has been trued.

It also allows more a access to the loading port.

The loading port access I can see but I don't know about the other part.

Someone with the technical talent to assemble a rifle of this quality can't install a one piece rail without stressing the receiver?

 

[dddoo7]

The loading port access I can see but I don't know about the other part.

Someone with the technical talent to assemble a rifle of this quality can't install a one piece rail without stressing the receiver?

I don't know. Im not a gunsmith. I Just read it somewhere.


--Daniel

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Edds again mike is very particular and if you don't like his style of doin things there are plenty of other smiths to go to. Mike's gun are as accurate as they are because of his mixture of things he does and has done for the last 20 years. If he says it puts undue stress on the receiver then who are you or I to say differently?

 

[Edds]

If he says it puts undue stress on the receiver then who are you or I to say differently?

I didn't say differently but if he really said that, I will be surprised.

 

[clmayfield]

The loading port access I can see but I don't know about the other part.

Someone with the technical talent to assemble a rifle of this quality can't install a one piece rail without stressing the receiver?

Plenty of people bed one piece scope bases. The end result usually doesn't look good, but is functional. If you have a two piece, you can machine them right yourself. I personally never asked Mike why 2 piece. If he thinks that it makes it more accurate and his stick shoots 1 hole, it wasn't something I was going to get wrapped around the axle about.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

The two piece bases come from the fact that most of the LE Depts. don't use detachable magazines and therefor top load. Mike has standardized on the 168 FGGM because that's what LE uses. Also, standardized on the R700 because that's what LE uses. When LE agencies through out the country have standardized on these things it just make's sense to make what your target audience wants.

 

[GLB]

Nice rifles. What does he use for the bdl magazine to make them reliable ?

 

[dddoo7]

He makes his own out of stainless.


--Daniel

 

[Aries64]

BDL Reliabilty

Nice rifles. What does he use for the bdl magazine to make them reliable ?

If you're referring to the actual Remington BDL assembly I don't know if Tac Ops does anything to it to "make them reliable". Personally, anytime you're building a custom rifle I would always opt for an aftermarket floorplate or DBM, but since Mike and has built thousands of rifles on the Remington 700 action over the course of thirty years and many of them are built using factory Remington floorplates (the vast majority of them going to actual TEAMS), to me the Remington floorplate appears to be pretty reliable in itself.

Keith

 

[Aries64]

Un-coated Tac Ops Stainless Floorplate

He makes his own out of stainless.


--Daniel

Yep. Here are a few photos of a Tac Ops Floorplate on an un-coated (pre-Birdsong) Tac Ops rifle:






Keith

 

[Black Ops]

Soon I will be offering several new BM's and a DBM as well...

Mike
Tac Ops

 

[JB02]

why do they have two piece base instead of a one piece?

It is much easier to top load a rifle that has a two piece base. There may be other reasons.

 

[RTH1800]

This is the best thread I have ever read on this site. Thanks to all who contributed. Both pro can con. (Cons lost)

 

[Buckeye308]

Soon I will be offering several new BM's and a DBM as well...

Mike
Tac Ops

Offering a DBM, now that I would like. Just have to keep saving...

 

[ScreaminBejesus]

Well I just couldn't wait any longer for an X-ray 51, so I called Mike and left a message. He called back on the same day ( today), and took my order! DONE! Check in the mail. Mike is an awesome guy, and a fast talker. No wander he's the best tac rifle builder, you can just hear the passion in his voice. Now the countdown begins!

Your comment mirrors my experience of speaking with Mike when I placed my order.

However it started, this thread has been a great read.

 

[s002wjh]

Like lowlight said, custom actions are not all they are cut out to be. I bought a new top name custom action for my latest build. I talked to several gun builders and finally settled on TacOps to put my rifle together. Every other gun builder told me that my custom action would not need any work-- just screw the barrel on and go. Mike told me up-front that most custom actions are not up to his standards. When he started putting the rifle together, the custom action needed to be trued because it only had 30% lug contact. I really wish I had saved my money and just let him build on a 700 action.

This goes to show though the attention to detail that Mike puts into these builds. The other big name smiths were not even going to check the action to see if it was true.

Are the tac-ops rifles more expensive? yes, but you truly get what you pay for. My factory r-700 sps-v barreled action is shooting under 1/2". I would be depressed to spend $3500+ to have someone else build me a custom rifle and then it only shoot as well as my $600 SPS-V.

1/2" at what range? cause some factory rifle can also do that, its just if you get luck or not to get one of those. the end result is if the rifle can shoot better than factory one, the custom will usually guaranteed that, but if your factory rifle can shoot 1moa or less than i don't think you need to go custom. of course there is also the bling, and smoother functionality that come with custom. so in the end it will depend if its worthy to you or not

 

[Ultraman550]

Tac Ops are so badass that when I get my gay ass Savage 10 I'm painting it the exact color as the Tango 51 marine tex and all. I might even call it a Tac Props just to feel better about it. I'm not kidding either.

Mike, I'm guessing the wait is probably a year +/- which is no problem. I hope this isn't a stupid question but do you work on lefty Rem 700 actions as well because I'm cursed in that area?