damn, and I just got all my parts to build a 6.5x284. the SAUM sounds like the ticket. Oh well, at least brass isn't an issue I guess.
- Thread starter Sendero_Man
- Start date
Thanks mate, too bad it's a major PITA to import rifles into Australia, you are by far my favourite rifle builder. I've spent many an hour on YouTube watching Tyler shoot your amazing work.
I was about to build a 6.5-284 before i saw this animal.
I was about to build a 6.5-284 before i saw this animal.
Is it a .298 neck?
I just talked to Dave Kiff last week about this reamer. He told me .2995 nk .188 FB. He said it was same reamer George uses. If I'm wrong, it's Dave's fault.
Not correct at all. Be very Carefull calling PTG, Dave makes alot of reamers and cannot easily keep track of who is using what.
Reamer we use has a .296 nk and .081FB print# is 50645 at PTG
I had Dave also make us a reamer with a .298 Neck for (NoTurn application) Print# 54006 Because some guys would not want to mess with turning the runout off. it also has .081 FB
These are the only 2 reamers we have!!
Those are the only 2 reamers we use.
There is a shorter version of the reamer out there with a .043" shorter body that someone used our spec as a baseline. make sure you have one of the above reamers with the correct SAUM/GAP 4s Head space gauge
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Thanks for responding George. I do understand Dave makes a ton of reamers in any given cartridge & its hard to keep them all straight. Your Xtreme 6.5 is definitely at the top of my "I NEED LIST"
Is there a noticeable difference in the .296 vs .298 as far as accuracy is concerned.
wow, nice details George, thanks very much for going thru all this stuff in such a complete fashion.
For what it is worth, I did run the 6.5 SAUM thru Quickload using the loads George is detailing and his conclusions are all very close to what Quickload is generating - chamber pressures and MVs are tracking very nicely in Quickload to George's and other's experience in the field. As far as H-1000 goes, its heat of explosion is 7-10% less than other popular powders, suggesting that this powder will be associated with longer barrel life.
I still love my 7 SAUM and pointed 180gr Hybrids, but will probably move to H-1000 and might consider the 6.5 SAUM once I'm done with the current 7mm barrell.
Again, thanks for all your work in this field George!
For what it is worth, I did run the 6.5 SAUM thru Quickload using the loads George is detailing and his conclusions are all very close to what Quickload is generating - chamber pressures and MVs are tracking very nicely in Quickload to George's and other's experience in the field. As far as H-1000 goes, its heat of explosion is 7-10% less than other popular powders, suggesting that this powder will be associated with longer barrel life.
I still love my 7 SAUM and pointed 180gr Hybrids, but will probably move to H-1000 and might consider the 6.5 SAUM once I'm done with the current 7mm barrell.
Again, thanks for all your work in this field George!
Remember Georges reamer is called 6.5 G.A.P.4s . He has a clean up neck and .081 fb. 1deg and a half angle . We also offer a no turn .298nk or any size you ask for . The big difference here is 80 present of our customers ask for a 6.5 RSAUM that has a pending record . That tool is not only named different but has a .294 thru.299 depending on the customer and .188 free-bore . This is purchased so often we have at least 20 going thru the shop at a time . I will be running a batch of the 6.5 G.A.P.4s reamers thru the shop because of the many requests .George said its not a problem to do so . If you call please be very sure what you ask for from the sales department . Last time I checked in the 6.5 file we had 26 different 6.5 RSAUM prints some would make your butt pucker. Thanks Dave
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It's a sickness I tell ya. I just emailed Ken to start a build sheet...
How do you 6.5 SAUM owners know how much pressure you are truly getting?
If it's QL that is suspect at best.
If it's QL that is suspect at best.
Who cares? 3250fps with a 130gr bullet with 8 firings on those cases and snug primer pockets is all the pressure indications I need.
Read post # 309.......
'Nuff Said
Will you measure case head size to judge pressure?
My reamer is here, barrel is a week out, trimmer supplies, powder, bullets....almost there...
I have one in the works also 
A10XRIFLE cares, as he stated.....
"Yes I have over 3400 rounds on my rifle now and its still shooting sub 1/2" Bryan Yeung on Team GAP shot one to 2800 and it was still in the 1/2 " range. This is proven. Its not a real secret its about Pressure!! The 308 runs at at pressures of 53000-58000 PSI I wanted to find a case that would make 3100 with a High BC Bullet at that same low low pressure. The Saum was wat we landed at with lots of testing. With a 140 JLK I could get 3080 FPS with only 53000 PSI "
From what I understand here, He's saying he cares about barrel life low pressures, and is claiming only 53000 PSI.
I was just curious how is he measuring his stated exact pressures?
Also Pat, How many grains of H1000 for the 130 vld? and, Why not the 140??
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What is the COAL of this round with a 130 VLDH?
I have one in the works also
Gonna be a couple of em coming out of the shop... (grin)
you guys are gonna love them ! 110%
I tend to like a lighter bullet when I hunt as well. There are reports from other shooters getting 10+ reloadings on a case using H1000 and Berger Bullets. So pressure is a non issue, apparently.
I would also tend to lean George's way on cartridge designs, he has more experience then we do with building rifles. It's safe to say, he knows his stuff. I trust his judgement.
I wanted a wildcat cartridge back in the winter and told him my parameters, over the next week we threw ideas around. He called me back one day and said I have it.... send me your parts.
Now Im shooting a 22 Creedmoor. Necking down 6mm Creedmoor to .224 and running a 75gr AMAX @ 3415 fps. A friend of mine recently just shot a 3" group at 700 yards in high winds. I'd say we have a winner. George will never steer your wrong.
6mm Creedmoor = win
22 Creedmoor = win
6.5 4S = major win
I think he is on a roll!
What's the barrel life on a 22creed?
I'm guessing better than a 22-250 or .220 Swift.
So a .22 Creedmoor, isn't that just reinventing the 22-250?
that's what I was thinking. Just a little less powder capacity in the .22 Creedmoor vs. the .22-250.
Im hoping in the 243 range.... 2500-3k according to how we are running it. There is room to go with a hotter load but the amax wont stay together in those ranges. We would be stepping up to a 80gr Berger at that point.
But that is for a different thread.
yavapai kid said:
I would guesstimate that his experience with rifle building, action design, barrel knowledge and his general knowledge of shooting is tell him the performance of the caliber and pressures it CAN produce. Remember he said "in the range of a 308".
That and the guy loading this ammo commercially may or may not have tested it....
Or you can "ASS-ume" that he has other things to do then spend every waking moment on here.
Perhaps a stupid question, but can anybody tell me if the SAUM has any issues feeding from a LA blind mag?
My pops has a neglected Weatherby VGL in 7RM with a 20" pencil barrel that is begging to be resurrected...
My pops has a neglected Weatherby VGL in 7RM with a 20" pencil barrel that is begging to be resurrected...
I love my SAUM!!!
does the saum use the same bolt face as wsm? any mods needed to go from wsm to saum?
Also.... Has anyone with a 6.5wsm loaded it with a similar charge of H1000? Results? I don't see how there would be much of a difference in performance/barrel life.
Yavapai Kid, Initial loading's were based on Quick Load predictions which are not 100% accurate but are ballpark. Bryan Yeung (posted above) tested these loads with a strain gauge type pressure meter and the predictions were very close to the QL predictions 53 to 56k . Nobody has made a Pizo or CC test Barrel and got actual's yet. But I'm not that worried about it at this point as its doing what we theorized it would do so its a mood point. 3k+ with the recommended loads. 61gr H1000 on 140 , 63gr H1000 on 130. You want to add horsepower there is plenty of room but your mileage will suffer.
Like I said if I could truly reinvent the wheel I would gave the 6.5 RCM a longer neck a slightly shorter body. I like the none rebated rim of the RCM and the case capacity. But the SAUM was the easier of the cases we were looking at to get, and to make. And if there is a chance someday to get cases made and properly head stamped this one will be the easiest.
Like I said if I could truly reinvent the wheel I would gave the 6.5 RCM a longer neck a slightly shorter body. I like the none rebated rim of the RCM and the case capacity. But the SAUM was the easier of the cases we were looking at to get, and to make. And if there is a chance someday to get cases made and properly head stamped this one will be the easiest.
I placed an order with GAP a couple of weeks ago. Trying not to think about the wait.
The 6.5 SAUM will fit in nicely with my .260Rem and 6.5 Creedmoor sharing the same bullets that I already buy in bulk. Dagnabit time to start saving $$$ for the new 6.5 SAUM build. Maybe by the time I get the rifle built powder and brass will actually be obtainable again.
George thanks for taking the time to post all the detailed answers. They were very informative and beneficial in understanding this cartridges purpose and capabilities.
George thanks for taking the time to post all the detailed answers. They were very informative and beneficial in understanding this cartridges purpose and capabilities.
Sent my Surgeon Scalpel in 7wsm to GAP last week for a little refreshing with a new #13 barrel chambered in 6.5 saum. Hopefully will have it back soon enough to try it out on the local wildlife this fall, as usual, cant wait to get it back and go shootin!!
Received it , and its in process, We are doing a batch of 6.5 SAUM's now and are sneaking yours in!
OK that's it. I'm getting a 6.5 barrel asap and I'm gonna have a switch barrel Templar, 300WSM and 6.5 RSAUM, you guys are killing me.
What is the wait time on a reamer from PTG these days?
What is the wait time on a reamer from PTG these days?
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That's great news George! Thank you!
Bone collector, I am lovin' mine. Dream rifle is understatement ! Little over 200 rounds down mine now. I am feeling sorry for the critters this fall not gonna stand a chance !
not gonna stand a chance !
I had the same question. Bought a .264 Win years ago I should not have. Would love to use the action on something like this.
Bone collector, I am lovin' mine. Dream rifle is understatement ! Little over 200 rounds down mine now. I am feeling sorry for the critters this fall
Sendero_Man, I couldn't agree with you more, I'm looking forward to this fall! Almost sounds like I might have my rifle back soon enough to break it in on some speed goats too!
I built mine on a Long Action. I haven't put very many rounds through it, just got it cerakoted and took it out to zero today, it seems to feed well with LA mags. I am running a McRee chassis with the 338 mags and it seemed to feed fine so far, but like i said, I don't have many rounds through it yet. I was going to shoot some groups once I had it zeroed...I had loaded a few " a little long" and ended up sticking a projectile in the lands, when I tried to eject it pulled the bullet, so that shortened my range day today! I thought I had my die set at 2.95", but when I re-measured when I got home they were at 3.045" with 139grain Scenars, need to seat them a little deeper!
What are you guys running for OAL? I was going to test 139 grain Scenars and 130 grain Berger Hunting VLD's.
I built mine on a Long Action. I haven't put very many rounds through it, just got it cerakoted and took it out to zero today, it seems to feed well with LA mags. I am running a McRee chassis with the 338 mags and it seemed to feed fine so far, but like i said, I don't have many rounds through it yet. I was going to shoot some groups once I had it zeroed...I had loaded a few " a little long" and ended up sticking a projectile in the lands, when I tried to eject it pulled the bullet, so that shortened my range day today! I thought I had my die set at 2.95", but when I re-measured when I got home they were at 3.045" with 139grain Scenars, need to seat them a little deeper!
I am sure you know but FYI, some have machined the Back flute out of 10 round 300 win mag mags and have gained capacity for a match gun. They are pricey but are strong and reliable. My 2 cents.
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