Looks to me they are focusing on the components they need to produce *their* ammo. Not yours. That's where the margin is.
- Thread starter turbo54
- Start date
Correct.
Maybe someday Unicef will get into the small arms ammunition business. Until then though, Hornady is one of the key outfits to see.
A couple of things come to my mind right off the bat.....so before we all go and start hammering on Hornady about what they are supposedly doing right now think about what all has been going on and also try and put yourself in they're shoes as well.....
Keep in mind......
Even though it seems some components and shortages might have eased up some it's still pretty tough out there. Some of the guys here have had powder, primers and bullets on order from several different places for several months now and still have not received everything thing they have ordered from distributors etc.....I'm not going to name names etc...because again the problem and shortages are across the board.
I think the primer and powder shortage is catching up with places like Hornady etc.....not to mention copper material delivery problems.
I know we make test barrels and we try and hold a set delivery time on test barrel orders. With that being said I know other barrel makers that manufacture test barrels are out on deliveries as long as one year! You cannot get test barrels you cannot test components, ammunition etc......I here this complaint from the Gov't as well.
Also for the time being they are probably suspending stuff that isn't they're high runners to meet the demand of the stuff that moves more consistently. This is just common sense planning with what is going on.
Go easy....... I know for a fact they are doing the best they can.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Keep in mind......
Even though it seems some components and shortages might have eased up some it's still pretty tough out there. Some of the guys here have had powder, primers and bullets on order from several different places for several months now and still have not received everything thing they have ordered from distributors etc.....I'm not going to name names etc...because again the problem and shortages are across the board.
I think the primer and powder shortage is catching up with places like Hornady etc.....not to mention copper material delivery problems.
I know we make test barrels and we try and hold a set delivery time on test barrel orders. With that being said I know other barrel makers that manufacture test barrels are out on deliveries as long as one year! You cannot get test barrels you cannot test components, ammunition etc......I here this complaint from the Gov't as well.
Also for the time being they are probably suspending stuff that isn't they're high runners to meet the demand of the stuff that moves more consistently. This is just common sense planning with what is going on.
Go easy....... I know for a fact they are doing the best they can.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
thrusty said:
They faxed a notice to distributors & shops carrying their products that they were going to temporarily stop making popular products, and had an expectation it wouldn't become public?
A couple of guys who post in the reloading forum on AR15.com have called Hornady this moring and they have in essence, confirmed the FAX that OP referenced.
One has to accept the reality that Hornady knows their ' sales/production numbers' for any particular bullet type/caliber, better than any of us, so claiming that 'the 80gr AMAX' is awesome AND popular, so why is it being 'dumped,' doesn't quite cut it.
Remember, Hornady is making bullets for their loaded ammo line, as well and those sales numbers have to be taken into account.
Sounds like a seller's market to me?
Chris
I also phoned Hornady this morning.... It is true ! I was fooled by the internet myself , after reading the July 7, 2013 letter "signed" by Steve Hornady !
It would be fascinating to me, to 'know' what the bullet models are, that they'll be concentrating on.
I'm betting that they're their rifle hunting bullets in 30cal, 224, 7mm, 6mm and 6.5mm and pistol bullets like 9mm, 40 and 45.
Generic stuff, like those.
Chris
Yes..... The information was to go to dealers/distros first. Then it would be put out to the public - Hornady was doing the dealers and distributors a favor by informing them first before the public beats the door down trying to buy everything on the list. The list of items that they were suspending was not intended to be publically disclosed, YET.
It's only been a weekend....news travels fast. lol
Ah, no they didn't.
1) People misread the request for quotes. They multiplied the max number of rounds by the delivery quantity. So in a given caliber, the gov asked for a quote for say 100,000 rounds with a delivery quantity of 1,000 rounds. That means the successfull company would supply UP TO 100,000 rounds, in quantities of 1,000 rounds (1,000 or 2,000 or 3,000 rounds, etc per order). So some brilliant people multiplied the 100,000 by the 1,000 and came with with quantities of 100,000,000 million rounds.
2) The DHS order that is commonly referenced was for actually about the same number of rounds as the year before, but for the first time, DHS was putting out a comprehensive contract, instead of each group ordering separately. So under this contract, was all the ammunition normally ordered by CBP, INS, Secret Service, etc.
3) It was a requirements contract, they did not order all that ammuntion, they got a contract that allowed them order as they need, UP TO the maximum numbers of rounds in the contract.
4) The contract was not a single year contract. It was for the prime year plus option years. These types of contracts allow a company to plan ahead, that they can figure on business for several years. Which gives a lower price to the government.
It's nice that hornady is trying to catch up with some of the calibers... But why the 105! 
I've been waiting months
I've been waiting months
Just ordered 80gr .224 & 178 gr .308 from PVI
get em while ya can
get em while ya can
Thanks for the tip. I just ordered some of both as well.
This made the "front page" at Accurate Shooter today (Daily Bulletin). If you take a look at the list, notice it's 10 pages long. That ought to give you some idea of just how many different loads they sell when the list of ones to be temporarily suspended is 10 pages long. Hornady makes a LOT of different ammo's and they obviously figured it was better to catch up on the demand for their highest volumes loads, than to be way, way, way behind on everything. It's a business decision, folks, similar things are done all the time in business. One other point worth noting is that although you may see several loads/calibers on that list that appear very popular here at SH, that doesn't mean they are Hornady's top sellers in the big picture. One might get the impression after reading this thread that some feel as though Hornady was deliberately trying to screw them. Hornady has always been a pretty stand up company IMO, and I seriously doubt they did anything other than decide based on the highest demand products.
It's almost like they read this thread ;-)
lmao Nicely said Steve...."no conspiracy by the government to shut us down"
I greatly appreciate the notice...I was able to snag some 80 A-max from Powder Valley before the hordes hit
The downside to all of this BS since early December?
A ton of casual shooters/reloaders (like me) have decided that they won't ever get caught short again, and are stocking up on powder/primers/projectiles in a method they never would have when they could stroll to the local store and buy a box of bullets or a pound of powder. And of course, this only makes the demand issue worse...
I do appreciate you posting this Turbo, especially since it turned out to be a fact. My big yawn was due to this being no big surprise to me and I have plenty of AMax's on hand from a blemish sale almost a year ago. This has made me study on my current inventory of NON-Hornady bullets. This is invariably bound to happen to at least one other component manufacturer, which should give us pause for concern over our personal inventory. I know some will over react and buy more than they can reasonably shoot in 5 years. I still say we are our own worst enema.
Therefore, we are temporarily suspending some items in order to t.
I'm confused on this because it says "focus our efforts on the most popular and highest demand products and ship more total product". to me it sounds like no suspension of the "highest demand products" listed on the link. What bullets are being suspended?
I'm confused on this because it says "focus our efforts on the most popular and highest demand products and ship more total product". to me it sounds like no suspension of the "highest demand products" listed on the link. What bullets are being suspended?
I called the L.E. rep as our duty round is on the suspended list and I asked when are they going to resume production on the suspend items. I was told not until 2014, they are going to run the major items for the rest of the year and then "look" at the suspended items again but no date has been set to manufacture any of the suspended items. I would urge you to email them politely asking for them to continue making your ammo/bullet if it is on ethe list. I for one truely love their .30 cal 178 BTHP for .308....
ETA from the sound of her voice, I read that this could be alot longer than what we may think. She didn't say it but just the tone her voice made me think that this could be very long indeed which is not good...
ETA from the sound of her voice, I read that this could be alot longer than what we may think. She didn't say it but just the tone her voice made me think that this could be very long indeed which is not good...
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First, the few who actually read the damn cover letter ALREADY KNEW IT WAS A SUSPENSION, not a termination. Suspend means stop now with the intent to resume.
As for it "not being for public disclosure" . . . well, that exposes a little naivete on Hornady's part. Given current circumstances (and really most of the time in any case), word of the suspension would quickly get out. Oh well, we all learn some PR lessons the hard way I guess lol.
The lady I spoke to in sales was the one really stressing that it was only a suspension.....and she kept trying to explain why they were doing it. You know how you get when you've been asked the same question over and over and over again and you start to get frustrated answering it 100 times....yeah, that's how it felt.
I simply said: ma'am, I understand why you're doing it and I'm alright with it.....but, I'm just trying to confirm that you're doing it as there is nothing official on your website. I said I was looking at a document of all the items they were suspending and she asked where I found the document. I said just Google "Hornady Temporary Suspension" - she did so on the phone and was railroaded with all the info.
It wasn't the fact that the public knew that some items were going to be suspended....it was the fact that the public was seeing what SPECIFIC items were being suspended. She immediately thanked me for the heads up and said she was heading to their PR people to get an official statement out ASAP.
Yeah...they learned a hard lesson on this one. lol
I know we make test barrels and we try and hold a set delivery time on test barrel orders. With that being said I know other barrel makers that manufacture test barrels are out on deliveries as long as one year! You cannot get test barrels you cannot test components, ammunition etc......I here this complaint from the Gov't as well.
Guys reread my post I made earlier. Above is one of my quotes. If Hornady among other makers of ammunition and components cannot get test barrels in a timely manner figure what that does to scheduling and manufacturing!
What's going on out there is effecting us all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! From panic buying, to people hoarding etc....has a ripple effect across everyone, and everything!
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Guys reread my post I made earlier. Above is one of my quotes. If Hornady among other makers of ammunition and components cannot get test barrels in a timely manner figure what that does to scheduling and manufacturing!
What's going on out there is effecting us all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! From panic buying, to people hoarding etc....has a ripple effect across everyone, and everything!
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Guys it is what it is. Frank and some others have been right on in this thread. No conspiracies or plots and schemes. Just business and trying to do their best for the most amount of shooters out there. Will it hurt some? Yup but hasn't this year already hurt alot? I have known the guys at Hornady for a long time and I know they would do nothing to hurt their loyal friends and fan base but they have to do what's best for the company as a whole to get it moving and getting better for the future.
We are all in the same boat here so lets not start turning on a company who has supported us for many years not just in sponsorships and prizes for matches and prize tables but for putting out excellent products as good prices.
For anyone who missed it earlier in the thread here is some info from Hornady
Product Availability Update - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc
We are all in the same boat here so lets not start turning on a company who has supported us for many years not just in sponsorships and prizes for matches and prize tables but for putting out excellent products as good prices.
For anyone who missed it earlier in the thread here is some info from Hornady
Product Availability Update - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc
That List is a brilliant marketing move by Hornady to respawn the panic buying.
The moment most guys read this forum they was hitting the sites buying up what they could get.
If you did not have what you needed prior to the 2nd term of this President then you have not
learned a damn thing of history.
Terry
The moment most guys read this forum they was hitting the sites buying up what they could get.
If you did not have what you needed prior to the 2nd term of this President then you have not
learned a damn thing of history.
Terry
I got an email back from hornady with a link to their website and following links to their products of highest demand. The products of highest demand are going to be their focus as stated by others prior to this post.
This is what I got in the email:
Thank you for the note. Yes, we are temporarily suspending production on some of our products. For our formal statement and list of products we will continue production on, please visit our website at Product Availability Update - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc.
Thank you,
Hornady Sales Team
phone 1-800-338-3220
That is all for now.
This is what I got in the email:
Thank you for the note. Yes, we are temporarily suspending production on some of our products. For our formal statement and list of products we will continue production on, please visit our website at Product Availability Update - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc.
Thank you,
Hornady Sales Team
phone 1-800-338-3220
That is all for now.
They also have a vid on youtube.
Steve Hornady Explains Increased Production Plans - YouTube
I shoot Hornady's for my rifles...I'm surprised at the move as the move will lose customers.
Steve Hornady Explains Increased Production Plans - YouTube
I shoot Hornady's for my rifles...I'm surprised at the move as the move will lose customers.
Official list of what is being produced:
http://www.hornady.com/assets/files...dy-Commercial-Ammo-Bullet-Production-List.pdf
.223 - 68 BTHP Match and 75 gr BTHP and BTHP Match
.243 - 105 gr BTHP and BTHP Match
.264 - AMAX 120, 123, and 140 gr.
.308 - 168 BTHP, BTHP Match. AMAX - 178 AMAX.
http://www.hornady.com/assets/files...dy-Commercial-Ammo-Bullet-Production-List.pdf
.223 - 68 BTHP Match and 75 gr BTHP and BTHP Match
.243 - 105 gr BTHP and BTHP Match
.264 - AMAX 120, 123, and 140 gr.
.308 - 168 BTHP, BTHP Match. AMAX - 178 AMAX.
This is a good thing gents. They, knowing their OWN business better than any one of us whining Marys, will now be making MORE of these bullets, hopefully flooding the market so to speak. This could actually HELP us all in the long run. Have you tried the 75gr BTHP? I have, it is a great bullet, and will stabilize in a slower twist than the AMax.
Instead of crying woe is me, why don't we learn something about manufacturing and running a business before we go off on a tangent about how fargin stupid or insensitive Hornady is being.
As some have already said. What you may THINK their most popular items are, may not be true. Some of the attitudes are bordering on narcissistic.
The problem with losing the 75 and 80 grain 224 Amax, as well as the 105 243, is that those bullets combine a healthy bc with the ability to expand at low impact velocities. In others words, if you like tossing heavy for caliber bullets at long range varmints, there really are no substitutes for them.
Very well said. A big +1! Hornady is a great company who cares about their customers. Steve Hornady making that video is one way they are showing that.
Hell I am looking forward to the 75gr BTHP Match showing back up in mass for ~$100 for a 600 pack box! With this new direction it could happen.
We can hope!
I love the 75gr HPBT. Best "across the course" bullet I ever used in my AR match rifle. Be nice if they could flood the market with 'em.
It's amazing that at least 75gr A-maxs aren't more popular. Why the hell even build a 223AI if not to launch heavies like the softer high BC A-Max?
I'm amazed at some of the stuff that makes the list instead of a few of the amaxs, depressing for my future with Hornady. Must really be hard to re-tool for amaxs!
Has anyone actually done any expansion tests on the 75gr BTHP Match? I have a thread in the rimfire section you might want to check out on match ammo vs HV hollow point. If you put your shot in the right place it doesn't matter. Varmints? I really don't care how fast a varmint dies...as long as he dies. As if blowing huge holes in varmints is more palatable to those who find fault with hunting any and all forms of animals. It doesn't matter.
If you want great ballistics then get some 80gr SMKs or Nosler CCs, how bout Berger. Oh but we want great cheap bullets....hell that is what Hornady is trying to give you!
If you want great ballistics then get some 80gr SMKs or Nosler CCs, how bout Berger. Oh but we want great cheap bullets....hell that is what Hornady is trying to give you!
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At least they are going to make the 30 cal 208 AMAX. Now maybe they will be in stock somewhere.
But if you shoot 7mm, you are out in the cold. Probably the closest thing you can find by length and BC will be the 175 SMK. The jump up to the 180s will likely not be pretty.
Jeffvn
But if you shoot 7mm, you are out in the cold. Probably the closest thing you can find by length and BC will be the 175 SMK. The jump up to the 180s will likely not be pretty.
Jeffvn
All this is going to do is allow the machines to keep running and pumping out the most popular and bullets that are in the highest demand in order to fill supply needs and orders.
Like it or not it not only is smart business but will benefit us all in the end.
They will run the machines like mad and get to the point that atleast the store shelves and wholesalers can actually sell consumers bullets and ammunition. Then once they can get that caught up they will probably have planned runs of the other stuff to get them back on the shelf as well.
We all know when stuff hits the shelf its gone in minutes. Right now the hoarding and panic buying is what's causing this not that Hornady wants to stop making your favorite bullets.
I can assure you they took a hard look at their products and manufacturing process in order to figure out how to help shooters not stick it to you.
Like it or not it not only is smart business but will benefit us all in the end.
They will run the machines like mad and get to the point that atleast the store shelves and wholesalers can actually sell consumers bullets and ammunition. Then once they can get that caught up they will probably have planned runs of the other stuff to get them back on the shelf as well.
We all know when stuff hits the shelf its gone in minutes. Right now the hoarding and panic buying is what's causing this not that Hornady wants to stop making your favorite bullets.
I can assure you they took a hard look at their products and manufacturing process in order to figure out how to help shooters not stick it to you.
M
milo 2.0
Guest
Well I guess time will tell if Mr. Hornady and his staff are genius's. It really doesn't mean anyone has to LIKE the decision. To me it looks like the shelves will be full of Hornady hunting ammo for the fall.
I'm really no fan of Hornady, nor a consumer, but I do agree the amax is one heck of a bullet for the user's of this forum, but on the flip side, there's always been better stuff available. And now when the Hornady guys are buying up all the Berger's and smk's, and this glut takes even longer to subside, my like for them will diminish even more.
Lets not forget that Hornady has a big spot on your sponsor list in your signatures. Some bias present there. Some shooters will be at a disadvantage and have to go to other bullets. Myself included. The 7mm guys will feel the pain too. With that said Hornady is a business and they are working out the predictions that they believe will make them the most profitable and sustain the best customer base. Is it going to inconvience some/many people. Absolutely. That is the nature of the current beast.
all well and good for them. i am (was?) a user of 75 grain amax in my 223 f t/r rifle. if i find something else as good or better i won't be back.
And a well earned bias. Also knowing more than the guessing and conspiracy theories in this thread. We have always tried to get info out as quick and correct as possible. Info some others might not be privy to.
We will have to wait as well. We don't get our bullets from some secret stash. Same wait list as everyone else. Will be an inconvenience to many for sure but it's what has to be done for the company to thrive and continue to provide the great products they have for many years. Atleast they are upfront about it. Hornady has long been excellent quality products at good prices and that's how they have built their fan base. More than just bullets. They aren't like Sierra or Berger who just make bullets. They make ammunition as well. Larger operation needed. Anyone here can throw in their two cents but they aren't running a multi million dollar company with many employees and customers. But hey it's the internet right?
And a well earned bias. Also knowing more than the guessing and conspiracy theories in this thread. We have always tried to get info out as quick and correct as possible. Info some others might not be privy to.
We will have to wait as well. We don't get our bullets from some secret stash. Same wait list as everyone else. Will be an inconvenience to many for sure but it's what has to be done for the company to thrive and continue to provide the great products they have for many years. Atleast they are upfront about it. Hornady has long been excellent quality products at good prices and that's how they have built their fan base. More than just bullets. They aren't like Sierra or Berger who just make bullets. They make ammunition as well. Larger operation needed. Anyone here can throw in their two cents but they aren't running a multi million dollar company with many employees and customers. But hey it's the internet right?
Not just ammo but all sorts of other tools and components as well. To be fair they weren't upfront about it. I think this whole fiasco could've been avoided if they just put it on their web page first instead of trying to maintain some stealth and give it to the distributors first. That is probably where some of the hysteria came from. Same time its is their multi-million dollar business to run as they please. I'm indifferent. Just means I'll be buying bergers/lapuas instead until the Hornady bullets I would like to have are availible again.
I haven't seen any of the "conspiracy theories" or "hysteria" in this thread... ...unless people bitching "their" bullet was being suspended qualifies as hysteria.
Let facts be presented to a candid world:
Something that seemed legit was posted.
Then it was confirmed as 100% factual.
Meanwhile, people put forth conjecture over what business model choices Hornady had made. None of these were conspiratorial.
Based on the list of suspended items, it is **obvious** who/what Hornady feels is more important. Luckily Rob, you and/or the cartridge you use is deemed "more important" to Hornady. Not that I blame them by the way. If I produced "6.5x55" and "7mm turbo54" ammo and one had to get the axe, which do you think I'd choose????
Let facts be presented to a candid world:
Something that seemed legit was posted.
Then it was confirmed as 100% factual.
Meanwhile, people put forth conjecture over what business model choices Hornady had made. None of these were conspiratorial.
Based on the list of suspended items, it is **obvious** who/what Hornady feels is more important. Luckily Rob, you and/or the cartridge you use is deemed "more important" to Hornady. Not that I blame them by the way. If I produced "6.5x55" and "7mm turbo54" ammo and one had to get the axe, which do you think I'd choose????
They were telling their dealers and distributors first and I think they deserved to be told first. Wouldn't you like to be told if you were a distributor or dealer and one of your major suppliers was having a major change in their supply chain? They would have been telling their customers soon but a dealer jumped the gun and then the internet took it and hysteria commenced. It is what it is but Hornady is doing what they think is best for their business and their customers.
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