5.45 X 39 Comparisons.

[Archer762]

Why I don't bother with any AK: no bolt hold-open on last shot, mags are screwy to load into the weapon (compared to AR), safety is stupid and noisy, and "accurate enough" just doesn't cut it when 4moa is the norm.

It used to be cost and reliability were the two AK advantages. Short of opening the upper on an AR and dumping dirt into the FCG, ARs are just as reliable. The AR/M-16 reliability crap dates back to the Vietnam era when poor ammo powder caused excess fouling. Another problem was crappy steel mags, but modern Pmags are awesome. In fact, I have seen several AKs at the range that are completely unreliable due to the large number of out of spec aftermarket parts. And now a decent AK costs as much, or MORE than a solid AR (DPMS, M&P-15, etc) that can be found for around $650. My $600 DPMS has several thousand rounds through it without a malfunction, and can shoot 1/2 MOA. My best 5 shot group is .42"

 

[K-tech]

See... you forgot the cockpit latch from your F4 phantom to bolt on the Ak-74 as a forward assist... that’s why it don’t work... nor the reshaped tail hook extractor (Navy model) for positive extraction of the 5.56 case from the 5.45 chamber...

Doubters...

ROTFL

Damn how could I have overlooked that minor detail! Here I thought I was prepared, keeping random ammunition and AK parts by my computer to clear out the noobs from this debate; boy was I wrong. I think Im going to go trade my sig p226 for a high point.... I was told that they were better in a pinch

 

[Cobracutter]

This thread is why I believe in IQ tests to procreate.

 

[kraigWY]

AK74/Krink 5.45 X 39, w/open sites, at 300 yards is just as effective as a AR15,...

Bet not.

Every time I question the AK accuracy claims pointing out that I've seen a lot of clean 300 yard rapid fire targets with an AR, they bring up they're talking man size targets, meaning I guess that just because the ARs can shoot the 7 inch 10-X ring they can't hit a man size target at 300 yards.

Minute of man is worthless if all you can see is his head at 300 yards.

I wont even address the part about shooting 5.56 out of a 5.45X39, to me that statement throws all credibility out the window.

But hey, what do I know, I'm just an old has been.

 

[Center hold]

AKs are good guns for sure. Better than many will give them credit for, but an AK74 cannot and was never designed to be able to use 5.56X45 interchangeably with 5.45X39. The soviets had their own supply chains and wouldn't waste R&D time and money on the hopes of overrunning American units and scavenging. World Wars are not won by scavengers.

 

[Grump]

Does the AK have to be in a ComBloc cartridge???

'cause I have access to one in 5.56x45mm...

and the first ten rounds I ever shot out of it were 2 MOA.

Not saying it WILL, but it's worth a test.

Yep, I sure did and later said to show me one AK that can hold <2moa at 500 yards. The silence is still deafening...

AK better than AR; my (not) dying ass because I carry an AR for work and can actually hit the enemy.

 

[Redmanss]

I was speaking of ComBloc ammo of course, but I would still like to see how it would perform at 500 yards with NATO caliber ammunition, MK262 even.

 

[bullseye13]

AK's are super accurate. I shot at a tree once 50yds away with mine and hit it. I was happy. Thats almost gotta be classified as sub MOA?

 

[JeffLebowski]

Well, in hopes of salvaging the interest in the ComBloc ammo and whatnot.....here's my article on my years with a 5.45x39mm AR15. Great rifle.

 

[kraigWY]

OK I read your article, yet I still can't see the advantage of an 5.45X39 AR over the 223/5.56. NONE.

Cheap ammo doesn't cut it for me, what good is cheap ammo if you can't hit anything. I can throw rocks pretty dern cheap. If I wanted cheap ammo I'll cast bullet. I can shoot my Marlin Cowboy 38/357 much cheaper then surplus 5.43X39 stuff and probably more accurately (although I haven't compared the two).

I can buy cheap ammo for my Mosin too, but I don't. I reload for it and it shoots a heck of a lot better then if I was using surplus ammo. Junk ammo defeats the purpose of rifle shooting in my opinion.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

Will the real Will Hayden please stand up, please stand up, please stand up

1000 yard AK 47, yeah right. Kreiger barrels the "Best that money can Buy...." And the price tag of $28000.00???????

 

[Redmanss]

...what good is cheap ammo if you can't hit anything. Junk ammo defeats the purpose of rifle shooting in my opinion.

Quoted for truth. Well said Kraig.

 

[LRRPF52]

National Lampoons - Are you serious Clark - YouTube

There is no way you are firing 5.56x45 in a 5.45x39 chamber.

MiG parts compatibility with NATO fighters? I think we've been had again. OP is having a laugh for sure right now.

 

[BCP]

OK I read your article, yet I still can't see the advantage of an 5.45X39 AR over the 223/5.56. NONE.

Cheap ammo doesn't cut it for me, what good is cheap ammo if you can't hit anything. I can throw rocks pretty dern cheap. If I wanted cheap ammo I'll cast bullet. I can shoot my Marlin Cowboy 38/357 much cheaper then surplus 5.43X39 stuff and probably more accurately (although I haven't compared the two).

I can buy cheap ammo for my Mosin too, but I don't. I reload for it and it shoots a heck of a lot better then if I was using surplus ammo. Junk ammo defeats the purpose of rifle shooting in my opinion.

Same I don't see an advantage in a 545 AR either.

I know people think they'll be able to get the AR and then buy a bazillion rounds of 545 for cheap but really...you can do that with an AK74 too, and it's the rifle/magazines that were DESIGNED for that round rather than an AR which has been jerry rigged to run it.

 

[JeffLebowski]

OK I read your article, yet I still can't see the advantage of an 5.45X39 AR over the 223/5.56. NONE.

Cheap ammo doesn't cut it for me, what good is cheap ammo if you can't hit anything. I can throw rocks pretty dern cheap. If I wanted cheap ammo I'll cast bullet. I can shoot my Marlin Cowboy 38/357 much cheaper then surplus 5.43X39 stuff and probably more accurately (although I haven't compared the two).

I can buy cheap ammo for my Mosin too, but I don't. I reload for it and it shoots a heck of a lot better then if I was using surplus ammo. Junk ammo defeats the purpose of rifle shooting in my opinion.

You can buy that ammo for 18 cents per round shipped? You can use that ammo in an exact facsimile of a modern service rifle with nearly identical ballistics? Please consider these points before responding.

I'm not sure you read my article as it's not "junk ammo" when you can shoot 2 MOA groups at 100 with a 4 MOA red dot. Did you not see that part?

I'm not trying to be defensive but I don't think you understand the benefits here and nor did you read my article very closely.

I would appreciate it if you re-read the article and paid attention.

 

[JeffLebowski]

Same I don't see an advantage in a 545 AR either.

I know people think they'll be able to get the AR and then buy a bazillion rounds of 545 for cheap but really...you can do that with an AK74 too, and it's the rifle/magazines that were DESIGNED for that round rather than an AR which has been jerry rigged to run it.

Ah, so you're speaking from no practical experience. There's at least 3 types of purpose built 5.45 mags for ARs and my S&W 5.45 AR is Glock like in its reliability.

It would be helpful to have informed discussion here, folks.

 

[dang472]

AR-15 VS AK-47, Solved Once and For All - YouTube

 

[shaman]

Ah, so you're speaking from no practical experience. There's at least 3 types of purpose built 5.45 mags for ARs and my S&W 5.45 AR is Glock like in its reliability.

It would be helpful to have informed discussion here, folks.

I think you have missed one of the unspoken rules. No NATO, No care. Let them laugh, I will shoot my 5.45 AR at 12 cents a pop with pretty good ballistics, and step up to "premium" Hornady when I feel like it. Even now bottom of the barrel 223 is almost 2X what 5.45 is. I have seen several groups of the kind you are referring to on other forums.

 

[LRRPF52]

I think 5.45 is actually a great cartridge, with a projectile profile that lends itself to good external ballistics. However, the AK74 or AKSU are not the platforms to extract the better capabilities of that cartridge from.

 

[dang472]

I read on 3 different survivalist forums that 7.62 NATO and 7.62x54R ammo can be fired through a 7.5x55 Swiss. Switzerland, known for its lack of supplies during the War of 1812, decided to re-engineer their K11s. This foresight led to an outstanding victory during the Spanish-American War and the Spanish Armada. History will look back on the "Operation Sloppy-but-Doable" chamber mods in a revolutionary light.

 

[pawprint2]

^^^^^^For a moment I was taken in! This is one of the funnneeeeist posts I've ever read! dang472, keep it up-you have at least one guy almost in tears! Thanks.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

I read on 3 different survivalist forums that 7.62 NATO and 7.62x54R ammo can be fired through a 7.5x55 Swiss. Switzerland, known for its lack of supplies during the War of 1812, decided to re-engineer their K11s. This foresight led to an outstanding victory during the Spanish-American War and the Spanish Armada. History will look back on the "Operation Sloppy-but-Doable" chamber mods in a revolutionary light.

Well, that sure sheds a lot of light on Military Strategies and Munitions.....


Cheers,
Tim
The Right to Keep and Bear Arms Shall NOT be Infringed

 

[dang472]

That little history nugget was free of charge. I've been getting a lot of reloading data from the same patriots on those forums, so stay tuned for the range report. Regular snipers test different bullets and powder charges. Me? I'm going to test several different cartridges!

 

[SABuzzard]

This thread is retarded.,

+1

LMAO

AK vs. AR video is priceless (second page)