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New GAP-10 Rail design. prototype's in!

A10XRIFLE

A10XRIFLE

Gunny Sergeant
Commercial Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 26, 2002
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N Kansas City, MO
www.gaprecision.com
As most of you know, we are in the process of changing the handguard. This change is across the board and will probably take place in October/November timeframe. The current handguard will be phased out and replaced with a new one.

This is a SolidWorks drawing of the current proposed new guard. The cuts at and below the centerline will not go all the way through the guard are there for looks and grip surface. Comments?? Other Idea was the second row of cuts be changed to large diamond checkering for grip surface.




407387527.jpg



407387526.jpg








Prototypes in, Approved and in Production!! :)




407922440.jpg


407922439.jpg
 
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the rail looks good, most important is that it is lighter than the BO square models and have good ventilation. I also wonder how air will rise with no holes in the bottom. How will it attach over the rear rail?

If this is an extrusion you are milling off most of the rails at the 3/6/ 9 oclock position? Seems you could have them not be on the extrusion and bolt sections on. Then if someone doesn't want them they don't have to have it.
 
The rails are staying, as they are small and out of the way. They are already on the extrusion, Having to bolt stuff on makes more parts to keep track of and something that can fail. I want to keep it fairly simple.

The Manufacturer, (Hogan machine) makes a bolt on rail model already if someone was wanting that design. so its not a problem. It would have to be ordered as a custom but the part is already available.
 
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SFC Carpentier jr said:
George looks good, but will the top holes be enough to cool the barrel during rapid fire?
Click to expand...


Heat is of no concern there is over 3/4" gap from the barrel to the hand guard. It wont even get warm. If it was a Full auto belt fed id be concerned but this is a precision semi auto. Think of a bolt action rifle, the bottom of the barrel is only 1/16th-1/8th inch or closer to the stock for 10-12" and its of no concern. Also heat rises, not just sometimes but all the time so the holes in the top are all that is needed to vent it away. I've never liked the holes in the boom they just don't feel right to me.
 
Looks good. I know this will be asked so let me do it. Will this rail be interchangeable with existing uppers? Say if I wanted this style on my existing rifle or does the upper change as well?
 
Bottom rail long enough for most bipod attachment methods ? maybe take it to 6 grooves like the top for a balanced look and to fit say a YHM adapter block for Harris bipods etc.

like the slotted look !

John
 
I don't think it looks as good as the last few designs, especially the "sniper" rail but I do think its good that Hogan isn't going to be using an exact carbon copy of a rail they used to machine for another company. I think it does look better than the older Badger square rail. If you say it feels better than that's a plus also
 
A10XRIFLE said:
Heat is of no concern there is over 3/4" gap from the barrel to the hand guard. It wont even get warm. If it was a Full auto belt fed id be concerned but this is a precision semi auto. Think of a bolt action rifle, the bottom of the barrel is only 1/16th-1/8th inch or closer to the stock for 10-12" and its of no concern. Also heat rises, not just sometimes but all the time so the holes in the top are all that is needed to vent it away. I've never liked the holes in the boom they just don't feel right to me.
Click to expand...

Then why not cut the holes simply to lighten the handguard? If they're horizontal like the VTAC then it would have a different feel anyways.
 
O_W said:
Looks good. I know this will be asked so let me do it. Will this rail be interchangeable with existing uppers? Say if I wanted this style on my existing rifle or does the upper change as well?
Click to expand...
It looks like they did keep using that part of the design but that is just me guessing by looking at the drawing.
 
my 2cents

1.) the top rail needs to be continuous for the possible option to mount shit where ever.... this would be a big negative for me.

2.) the side and bottom integrated rails (perfect location & love them = one less thing to purchase as an accessory) need to be about 4" long picatinny with a hole for QD sling on all 3.... especially for the bottom rail for a bipod rail adapter (make sure harris bipod adapter / front of harris bipod mount runs flush with front of handguard). make them picatinny and not weaver... f@cking hate skin ripping weaver rails.

then it would be perfect IMO

A10XRIFLE said:
As most of you know, we are in the process of changing the handguard. This change is across the board and will probably take place in October/November timeframe. The current handguard will be phased out and replaced with a new one.

This is a SolidWorks drawing of the current proposed new guard. The cuts at and below the centerline will not go all the way through the guard are there for looks and grip surface. Comments?? Other Idea was the second row of cuts be changed to large diamond checkering for grip surface.




407387527.jpg



407387526.jpg
Click to expand...
 
elfster1234 said:
my 2cents

1.) the top rail needs to be continuous for the possible option to mount shit where ever.... this would be a big negative for me.

2.) the side and bottom integrated rails (perfect location & love them = one less thing to purchase as an accessory) need to be about 4" long picatinny with a hole for QD sling on all 3.... especially for the bottom rail for a bipod rail adapter (make sure harris bipod adapter / front of harris bipod mount runs flush with front of handguard). make them picatinny and not weaver... f@cking hate skin ripping weaver rails.

then it would be perfect IMO
Click to expand...

Cut out in top is not going away its on our current rifle for a reason, the mounting of 50-56mm scopes a 1.250 mount (which is what they all are)

Rail is 1913 Pic Spec

The Extrusion does not alow for the QD mounts :( otherwise that would already be there.

there are pre drilled and tapped slots for Bipod adaptor. thats covered.
 
ohhhhhhh, 1.25 mount! hmmmmm, now you got me thinking... I think I like it then = seriously tight cheek weld or bigger objective. Ok, sounds good to me.

got to figure out the QD holes! get r done. Love them on my LMT

A10XRIFLE said:
Cut out in top is not going away its on our current rifle for a reason, the mounting of 50-56mm scopes a 1.250 mount (which is what they all are)

Rail is 1913 Pic Spec

The Extrusion does not alow for the QD mounts :( otherwise that would already be there.

there are pre drilled and tapped slots for Bipod adaptor. thats covered.
Click to expand...
 
I like the non-continuous top rail because it saves on weight. Basically just need enough room for a scope, night vision and BUIS.

A more rounded tubular rail would be great for ergonomics.

Can you save any more weight with diagonal longer slots? Or will that effect the strength too me.

A barrier stop attachment and a tripod adaptor like Whiskey3 has would be a nice option.

A sharper angle on the top side slots may give you a sleeker look and shave a little more weight.

Is the bottom going to be flat or rounded?

For the grip surface cuts, how about alternating triangles (flat size up then down, etc)?
 
SSG3K said:
Why change at all?

Rich
Click to expand...


Don't have a choice Rich, Our Manufacturer Hogan Manufacturing, and POF finally settled, Part of that mandates that our guard must change. I actually think its a great Idea because it will give our rifle a different look than other rifles that are similar looking. It will be a GAP-10 only product.
 
I don't like it. I would go with something that looks like the knights Armament Mod 1 handrail. I have a Gap-10 .308 and love thway it looks. Not digging the new design. The Mod-1 with the rail that extends all the way to within a couple inches of the muzzle is great looking and would be in the Gap-10 as well. Just my .02 cents.
http://tradingplacepawn.com/media/c...b33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/k/m/kmc-30351-2.jpg

Something along these lines but your own design would be wicked.
 
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How about closing the vent holes on the vertical channel on top and extend them lower to reduce Mirage waves, cool air in lower part of the guard but gets vented at the 10 and 2 o'clock position with a convection. The way it sits right now the heat will come up through the upper part of the vent holes like a chimney. I don't know how effective it will be but I will be trying the same experiment this weekend using a skid wrap from tack ops half way around my FFT. It stays hot here in Fla so I am trying different things to manage the mirage effect.
 
Those same holes are on the guard now and mirage has never been an issue, the scope sits to far away from the bore


ArmyJerry said:
How about closing the vent holes on the vertical channel on top and extend them lower to reduce Mirage waves, cool air in lower part of the guard but gets vented at the 10 and 2 o'clock position with a convection. The way it sits right now the heat will come up through the upper part of the vent holes like a chimney. I don't know how effective it will be but I will be trying the same experiment this weekend using a skid wrap from tack ops half way around my FFT. It stays hot here in Fla so I am trying different things to manage the mirage effect.
Click to expand...
 
The old rails did not allow for rail mounted levels like from US optics. Any efforts to accommodate for levels in the future?
 
never know... better to have it than not to have it with people & their accessories..... wouldn't hurt to have the option and some people like the look of a full length top rail like myself, while some would keep the rifle length and 4" option rail off all together to take off as much weight as possible & might like that look also.... plus, if you didn't have a huge objective with a standard mount, then you could put the rifle length rail back on so you don't have a huge massive gap. Just ideas.


A10XRIFLE said:
I have to ask, Why would one want a full length top rail??? what would the use be??
Click to expand...
 
How do you think it would look if you added some scallops or cutouts or some sort of pattern to the end, instead of just flat round? On the old handguard there is a lip on the bottom that I think adds a bit of "flare" to the handguard, even though it is subtle.
 
I would rather see KeyMod attachment points along the sides. They vent well and allow for users to place accessories wherever they wish, and no more proprietary rail attachments to deal with.
 
George, I think it looks great the way it's depicted in the pics. It looks much sleeker than the old design. That being said, I have to agree that QD points would be an improvement. My GAP10 order was placed last week, so hopefully I will get the new hand guard and be able to provide a first hand review for everyone in 10 months or so!
 
Since it is a precision rifle setup how about incorporating 20moa cant.

That way standards rings could be used instead of tall unimounts...!

gives more flexibility in scope mounting...

As far as rest of the design ... Very solid and good looking... I don't know what a industry std mount is for QD Harris bipod setup, but if it will allow a LaRue sized QD mount to be placed without over hang of the mount would allow for More surface contact. Can't tell by pictures if the bottom forward 1913 rail is big enough ...

Modular side rails help keep weight down... Not that 2 strips of aluminum 1913 is a big deal in weight... I think integrated is better ... One piece better than two

Keep up the good work !
 
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What about a rail section or threads for a rail section next to the mag for tripod mounts?
 
A10XRIFLE said:
As most of you know, we are in the process of changing the handguard. This change is across the board and will probably take place in October/November timeframe. The current handguard will be phased out and replaced with a new one.

This is a SolidWorks drawing of the current proposed new guard. The cuts at and below the centerline will not go all the way through the guard are there for looks and grip surface. Comments?? Other Idea was the second row of cuts be changed to large diamond checkering for grip surface.
Click to expand...

George,

You should contact Jesse Gomez over at LWRCI to help you out > [email protected]
He is THE expert at designing these types of components.
In any case, if Jesse cannot get it done, I would be glad to take care of any design prospects for you.

I'm also sure you will need this thing manufactured...
It just so happens to be, I am wrapping up a large production run this month.
And with our new horizontal, could easily take care of your manufacturing needs as well.
Just PM or email me with any requests you may have.
Thanks!
 
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1.) the top rail needs to be continuous for the possible option to mount shit where ever.... this would be a big negative for me.

2.) the side and bottom integrated rails (perfect location & love them = one less thing to purchase as an accessory) need to be about 4" long picatinny with a hole for QD sling on all 3.... especially for the bottom rail for a bipod rail adapter (make sure harris bipod adapter / front of harris bipod mount runs flush with front of handguard). make them picatinny and not weaver... f@cking hate skin ripping weaver rails.

then it would be perfect IMO

+1 for this^^^^^^
 
Would like to see some keymod on the sides and instead of the straight slotted non holes on the bottom you could make them similar to the Hogan design while leaving the pic rail sections on the sides and bottom.
 
I like it, the only thing I would change would be key mods on the side and bottom to attach Qd sling mounts, rails, etc.
 
Could you introduce a texture to the bottom portion of the hand guard?

Added grip for offhand shooting. I like to hunt with mine......

Might also help with anti skid pad for those of us who shoot comps as well.

I know that the part is extruded, but you could add a secondary/tertiary operation here.
 
leprechaun said:
1.) the top rail needs to be continuous for the possible option to mount shit where ever.... this would be a big negative for me.

2.) the side and bottom integrated rails (perfect location & love them = one less thing to purchase as an accessory) need to be about 4" long picatinny with a hole for QD sling on all 3.... especially for the bottom rail for a bipod rail adapter (make sure harris bipod adapter / front of harris bipod mount runs flush with front of handguard). make them picatinny and not weaver... f@cking hate skin ripping weaver rails.

then it would be perfect IMO

+1 for this^^^^^^
Click to expand...



+2 on this. Some people attach Night vision devices in line with their scope, a full length rail will accommodate any of the different variations of scope and or NV device, etc.

+2 on the Pic rails being longer and having a QD flush cup built into it

I also think the bottom sections should be cut all the way through to lighten the weight, for ventilation and to also allow any debris to fall out on it's own.
 
Since the full rail on top seems to be most requested just key mod the top after the receiver ends on the forearm so people can sti run a low mount for scope and have their rail start where they want it for their accessoeries
 
I'll second the key mod suggestion and add lengthening the rail it self. 12" min and have a cut out for the switch blocks

5682410234_a1eaa2fcdc_z.jpg
 
George
If someone had a M. R.R handguard or H.S.R handguard from POF and wanted a GAP10 rifle instead could someone (ME) send you the handguard
and have you build the rifle when the build came up in the rotation so to speak . It just gives me options etc.
Thanks in advance for answer

copk9
 
copk9 said:
George
If someone had a M. R.R handguard or H.S.R handguard from POF and wanted a GAP10 rifle instead could someone (ME) send you the handguard
and have you build the rifle when the build came up in the rotation so to speak . It just gives me options etc.
Thanks in advance for answer

copk9
Click to expand...

Yes, not a problem.
 
A10XRIFLE said:
I have to ask, Why would one want a full length top rail??? what would the use be??
Click to expand...

I run a "scout" scope up there, but that might just be me. Plus, as you already stated, an aftermarket rail is available for those who desire one.

BTW hot AIR rises,heat transfers from hot to cold. Just to be a G.N. :) I'd probably drill a couple holes within the lower slots to let in ambient air, but having them covered allows me to "tune" the airflow if desired.

Looks cool anyway :)
 
I agree that full length rail on top for rear buis, scope, night vision, peg- and front fold down. That a lot of real estate needed. Opened up hand guard to let water and sand go away.
 
although I am sure it will look good no matter what, this opinion comes from someone that will be ordering one in the next couple months.

I see absolutely no purpose for the rails on the sides. I just perused the semi-auto and GAP10 threads and the only thing I saw attached to the side rails on 308s were covers, and QD sling attachments. I don't know why that extrusion won't allow it but for me the best setup would be only the top rail you show above, 2 QD holes on each side, and some standard holes on the sides and bottom that would allow attachment of any already existing quality rail segments.
 
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