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anyone try the archangel rem stock? or review?
- Thread starter s002wjh
- Start date
like the back 1/2.. the bipod looks useless ... prapitory mags dont thrill me either..
price is "cheap"
Archangel AA700 | Archangel Manufacturing
price is "cheap"
Archangel AA700 | Archangel Manufacturing
My Review
On forums all over the net, there are a lot of people trashing the Archangel 700, but I still gave it a chance. Like a lot of guys, I don’t have thousands upon thousands of dollars to plop down on a high-end custom rifle. Don’t get me wrong, I would if I could, but it’s just not in the cards. So I bought a factory rifle and upgrade it now and then when I have some extra money. I could have spent a couple of grand and waited 10-12 months on a JAE700, or I could get the AA700B right now for $320. That’s a pretty good deal considering that a detachable magazine assembly alone costs $200.
There were no problems with the install, the rifle dropped right in without any fuss (I got the one with the aluminum bedding block). There is plenty of room around the barrel and the stock is so solid I think I’d have to drive over it with the truck to get it to flex. It came with a 10 round magazine, which thus far has not miss-fed or jammed after a couple hundred rounds. The saddle and butt-pad adjust with tactile clicks and are very solid. I like the compartment in the grip, though I don’t know what I will put in it yet. It is comparatively heavier, but not unmanageable.
Most of the complaints seem to be about the bi-pod. Look, I typically use the bi pod as a kickstand to keep the rifle out of the dirt. When I’m actually shooting, I use sandbags or some other improvised rest in the field. The fact that these fold up flush into the for-end is a plus to me, one less thing to snag. Having said that, I did shoot off the bi-pods for testing purposes. There is not any height adjustment or swivel, but they are solid and work just fine for target shooting.
My advice is to take all the money you would have spent on a more expensive stock and buy a ton of ammo. Practice is better than parts. Anyway, that’s my two or ten cents. Do with it what you will. For a mere $35, I gave it a nice custom look with some Duracoat. Here are some pictures:
On forums all over the net, there are a lot of people trashing the Archangel 700, but I still gave it a chance. Like a lot of guys, I don’t have thousands upon thousands of dollars to plop down on a high-end custom rifle. Don’t get me wrong, I would if I could, but it’s just not in the cards. So I bought a factory rifle and upgrade it now and then when I have some extra money. I could have spent a couple of grand and waited 10-12 months on a JAE700, or I could get the AA700B right now for $320. That’s a pretty good deal considering that a detachable magazine assembly alone costs $200.
There were no problems with the install, the rifle dropped right in without any fuss (I got the one with the aluminum bedding block). There is plenty of room around the barrel and the stock is so solid I think I’d have to drive over it with the truck to get it to flex. It came with a 10 round magazine, which thus far has not miss-fed or jammed after a couple hundred rounds. The saddle and butt-pad adjust with tactile clicks and are very solid. I like the compartment in the grip, though I don’t know what I will put in it yet. It is comparatively heavier, but not unmanageable.
Most of the complaints seem to be about the bi-pod. Look, I typically use the bi pod as a kickstand to keep the rifle out of the dirt. When I’m actually shooting, I use sandbags or some other improvised rest in the field. The fact that these fold up flush into the for-end is a plus to me, one less thing to snag. Having said that, I did shoot off the bi-pods for testing purposes. There is not any height adjustment or swivel, but they are solid and work just fine for target shooting.
My advice is to take all the money you would have spent on a more expensive stock and buy a ton of ammo. Practice is better than parts. Anyway, that’s my two or ten cents. Do with it what you will. For a mere $35, I gave it a nice custom look with some Duracoat. Here are some pictures:
You have no idea how wrong you are. Good quality kit is important. Anyone worth their salt in this sport know a good bipod is a necessity. You have a stock with a shitty bipod, and no way to mount a better one. You should have followed your own advice, purchased a $200 HS take off stock, and added a bipod. Then you would have had good kit, and money left over. By the way how much do those proprietary mags cost? How many rounds have you put through your rig with all that savings?
Chip
PS: The extra set of rings you have mounted on your scope arn't doing your any good. For that $30 you could have purchase more practice ammo.
Did anyone else notice they never showed an unedited shot of the rifle being fired after the shooter ejected and chambered a fresh round? Makes me think it doesn't feed, I have always heard the M14 mag doesn't work well with a R700 rifle. Wonder why you don't see them too often? Maybe because they don't work?
Counter Argument...
The archangel magazines are $28.89 from pro-mag whereas the hs precisions are listed at $80.
Yes, you could buy an hs stock, although I could not find one for less than $300. But you would need to add the detachable magazine assembly for another $300, plus a good bipod for around $70.
People ask me about the rings all the time. They're cheap, they're light, and I have room for four. If it gets dropped by accident, I KNOW it will not be knocked out of alignment.
The archangel magazines are $28.89 from pro-mag whereas the hs precisions are listed at $80.
Yes, you could buy an hs stock, although I could not find one for less than $300. But you would need to add the detachable magazine assembly for another $300, plus a good bipod for around $70.
People ask me about the rings all the time. They're cheap, they're light, and I have room for four. If it gets dropped by accident, I KNOW it will not be knocked out of alignment.
Thanks for the pics and your input, with this stock being relatively new on the market, there is little user input available. With that said, would mind reviewing the stock a little more, showing bedding block etc. Also, can you report on range time now that you have had the stock for a couple months. Finally, can you single load a round from the breech with the empty mag in place?
Promag is all you had to say in regards to magazines. I don't give a shit how cheap they are......they are promags. There's a reason AI mags are the gold standard.....A....Good....God....Damn....Reason. Because they work.
Here's a look under the hood.
I tried to show the bedding block as best I could, but I'm not sure these pictures do it justice. I masked off the aluminum where it contacts the action, but the aluminum in the magazine well got painted over. You can feed a single round in the chamber with the empty magazine in place, no problem. Unfortunately, I have not had a chance to shoot it lately, but hopefully I can get it out this weekend. Standby for the results on that.
I tried to show the bedding block as best I could, but I'm not sure these pictures do it justice. I masked off the aluminum where it contacts the action, but the aluminum in the magazine well got painted over. You can feed a single round in the chamber with the empty magazine in place, no problem. Unfortunately, I have not had a chance to shoot it lately, but hopefully I can get it out this weekend. Standby for the results on that.
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Judging by the tone of your comment, I'm guessing you have never tried a Promag. By virtue of their simplicity, bolt actions really don't jamb very easily. I have run about 200 rounds through it without a single incident. Can it jamb? Probably, but no more so than a magazine from another company. Paying three times more does not always mean you are getting three times better. I'm not claiming that everything Promag makes is awesome, because I haven't used them all, but this one works just fine.
Interesting, for some reason I was under the impression that the block went the full length of the forearm... Then again, I may have confused that with what I read about a Choate Tactical stock. Thank you for pulling the action and shooting some images. I am looking forward to a range report. I'm not pulling the trigger on one just yet, even though I found some in stock for $260 (w/ bedding block, not pillar).
I just helped my son install the Archangel on a Fin 39. Is it a McMillan?-No. Does it fill a need?-Yes. For those who don't have the funds for the high end and are enthusiasts - it fills the gap. The stock is a little on the light side but the ergonomics are great. Seems reasonably rigid. The adjustments are solid and precise. The only real problem was having to relieve the Timney trigger housing and screw to allow the mag to seat. The mag initially had some feeding issues but were resolved with a little dremmel work to the bolt face. At the range he ran 60rds with no issues. Got the old warhorse holding 1 3/4" at 200yds with Winchester 180's. Is it top of the line?-No. But if the shooter is on a budget- at $164.95 it'll do. If they built the R 700 stock the same way probably "OK" ???? That said McMillan,Manners,HS Precision or Bell&Carson-----Buy once Cry once.
Not everyone can afford to spend $4,200 on a rifle not including scope.
Some people just plink at the range with their kit. They aren't police snipers or "operators" getting deployed to Afghanistan.
No need to be ugly and condescending about it.
Some people just plink at the range with their kit. They aren't police snipers or "operators" getting deployed to Afghanistan.
No need to be ugly and condescending about it.
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This rifle weighs 12.4 pounds as shown. I did not weigh the stock by itself, but I can if you are interested.
Please, list these stocks that have better options than what is offered on the Archangel stock. My SPS-T is set to arrive in the next week, and I am in the market for an after market stock.
If you are just being a condescending fanboy I am not wasting my time. IMO the built in bipod and "prapitory" magazines are not a plus. Function > form.
Fanboy, far from it, I just thought you had something of value to share... I was mistaken.
My apologies, your post just came across as sarcastic. I would go with a B&C medalist wayy before the archangel.
I was leaning towards the Choate stock, but those convenient recessed sling mounts look so bad on the sides of the stock; and the shoulder stock looks like a boat oar... However, a nice B&C A3 style stock, Black w/ Red web caught my eye this morning. Very elegant looking and priced right...
I digress, back on topic; At 12 pounds dressed to thrill, I can assume this is definitely not a field carry (?) I read that the JAE is 16 +/- lbs to carry... definitely a bench/prone shooter... Would still be very interested in a range report.
I cannot recommend the B&C stocks highly enough. By the time you have a dbm, adjustable cheekpiece and a bipod on it you will be a little over what a archangel costs but you will have a much better chassis.
Hey zimmtex, where you able to get the rifle to the range? Hopefully the stock performed well...
Range report
Range Conditions
Sunny & Clear
Temp: 44 degrees Fahrenheit
Wind: right to left 6-12 mph
BP: 30.39in
Humidity: 86%
I started at 100 yards, prone off of sandbags with five shot groups, cooling between sets but no cleaning. The new stock is getting about the same size groups as the original stock with the same hunting ammunition. For full disclosure, the original stock had been modified from its factory condition. I pillar bedded it, reinforced the forearm with an aluminum channel, and added an adjustable comb which did improve its accuracy, but it was still too flexible. While the new stock did not improve the accuracy of the rifle, ergonomically I saw a huge improvement. It fits me much better and the added weight ate up a lot of recoil.
Next I moved to the gong at 475 yards with my final 10 rounds. The wind was very gusty and unpredictable. I was getting anywhere from 6-12 mph on the anemometer which kept blinking out on me. The first shot was a surprisingly close miss just to the left of the plate. After that I got five hits (one on the very edge of the plate and two together in the middle), never missing the plate by more than a hair with the rest. In retrospect I was firing regardless of what the wind was doing, so from now on I will pay attention to the wind and try to fire between gusts. No jambs or mis-feeds all day.
In conclusion, I was a little disappointed that this new stock did not improve my group size, but I am pleased with the ergonomics and the detachable magazine. It is definitely an overall improvement over what I had. I am thinking that I will go get some different rounds to try out and perhaps I can find a more accurate load.
Range Conditions
Sunny & Clear
Temp: 44 degrees Fahrenheit
Wind: right to left 6-12 mph
BP: 30.39in
Humidity: 86%
Thanks for the report, it was very much appreciated! Different rounds sounds like the way to go, what were you shooting for this outing?
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I have been getting into handloading so I used some of those for an apples to apples comparison of the stocks. I reloaded Hornady 150gr SST Interlocks with a 41.9gr charge of RL-15.
That bullet is excellent for hunting and has great expansion. In the hands of a more experienced reloader, they could probably be much more accurate.
That bullet is excellent for hunting and has great expansion. In the hands of a more experienced reloader, they could probably be much more accurate.
Looks like the Archangel stocks are getting some notice, as two of the cheapest internet stores that had them are now out of stock...
I am starting to research some loads using the 155gr Nosler CC's. These will be for my Rem 700 SPS-T that I would like to mount in one of these stocks... so now back to the press!
Hey Guys,
I decided to give this stock a try. It fit beautifully with my 26" Rem 700 .308. Set evenly in the stock immediately. My only issue is that I load my rounds a bit long (2.85 Inch) they barely fit the mag. In fact I modified the mag about 1mm, and it was enough to allow the rounds clearance. It seems to feed well. Additionally with .308 the mag only fits 9 +1 not 10+1. I like everyone else seem to disliked the non-adjustable bipod. I played with the idea of pulling the bipod and filling the channel with fiberglass or something, but I suspect that it would crack and separate due to recoil, so instead, I drilled right through the entire mount bracket (Bipod hardpoint according to the diagram), this renders the factory bipod unusable, but I now have a VERY solid swivel stud installed, which allowed me to put my Harris Bipod in place.
Now all that is left it to take it out to the range.
I decided to give this stock a try. It fit beautifully with my 26" Rem 700 .308. Set evenly in the stock immediately. My only issue is that I load my rounds a bit long (2.85 Inch) they barely fit the mag. In fact I modified the mag about 1mm, and it was enough to allow the rounds clearance. It seems to feed well. Additionally with .308 the mag only fits 9 +1 not 10+1. I like everyone else seem to disliked the non-adjustable bipod. I played with the idea of pulling the bipod and filling the channel with fiberglass or something, but I suspect that it would crack and separate due to recoil, so instead, I drilled right through the entire mount bracket (Bipod hardpoint according to the diagram), this renders the factory bipod unusable, but I now have a VERY solid swivel stud installed, which allowed me to put my Harris Bipod in place.
Now all that is left it to take it out to the range.
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I grabbed one of these as well (bedding block version). For some odd reason, they had 5 on Amazon last week, now out of stock. Weird. I bedded the recoil lug, and filed the left side of the barrel channel for a perfect fit with my 700 SPS Tactical .308. Without getting rambly...let me list my impressions like this:
Pros:
1. Adjustable pull length and cheek piece. Comfortable.
2. Aluminum block
3. Free floats barrel
4. Does mag conversion for "free" and comes with 1 metal 9 round. Clicks in very solid into a metal clip holder in the mag well.
5. Solid materials- except for bipod legs
Cons:
1. Heavy - 6.5 lb ish
2. Bipod - Metal attachment points, metal bracket...screwed on plastic legs. I plan on beating it, and if it snaps, just mount a Harris type. I'd be willing to bet it wont break though. I'll let you know.
3. Bipod release "button" seems to freeze if you push down on it. Workaround is to use your fingernail to release.
4. Cheek riser wheel - takes brute force to turn it. It works though.
5. Recoil pad - a bruiser.
I needed the adjustable stock...it's a winner for me. I like it.
Pros:
1. Adjustable pull length and cheek piece. Comfortable.
2. Aluminum block
3. Free floats barrel
4. Does mag conversion for "free" and comes with 1 metal 9 round. Clicks in very solid into a metal clip holder in the mag well.
5. Solid materials- except for bipod legs
Cons:
1. Heavy - 6.5 lb ish
2. Bipod - Metal attachment points, metal bracket...screwed on plastic legs. I plan on beating it, and if it snaps, just mount a Harris type. I'd be willing to bet it wont break though. I'll let you know.
3. Bipod release "button" seems to freeze if you push down on it. Workaround is to use your fingernail to release.
4. Cheek riser wheel - takes brute force to turn it. It works though.
5. Recoil pad - a bruiser.
I needed the adjustable stock...it's a winner for me. I like it.
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Had it out today at 200 yds. Shot great. The adjustable length and cheek piece is great. I shot with the bipod all day, no bags. It will take a lot more abuse than it looks. Very solid. It moves a bit loosely in the mount, so it pivots etc. Not as good as a Harris, but very good nonetheless.
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Yeah, to update. I took it out at the range. It was a SUPER windy/gusty day. Enough that it was actually moving the bench I was using to rest. I got about a 3 inch group at 300 yard. The group was dead on up and down, but spread out left to right which I am pretty sure was due to the movement of the table I was shooting off of. I am curious what it will do on a quiet day.
The modification I made drilling the hardpoint, and installing the Harris remained solid after about 60 rounds, so I would say that is a good solution for people that want this stock but hate the crappy bipod it comes with.
A con is the shear weight of the system. with optics I think I am somewhere around the 12 pound mark, the one benefit of this is that when that .308 goes off there is almost no recoil making it an absolute joy to shoot.
Needless to say, for under $400 I am pleased.
The modification I made drilling the hardpoint, and installing the Harris remained solid after about 60 rounds, so I would say that is a good solution for people that want this stock but hate the crappy bipod it comes with.
A con is the shear weight of the system. with optics I think I am somewhere around the 12 pound mark, the one benefit of this is that when that .308 goes off there is almost no recoil making it an absolute joy to shoot.
Needless to say, for under $400 I am pleased.
Sorry but I would have to go with bell and carlson A2 and PTG bottom metal over this stock even after reading the positive post. I dont have PTG bottom metal but they do make one that does not require inletting so 225 + 125 $350 way better set up in IMO.
As stated previously: It fills a niche between the factory rubber bands and the top end mil spec stocks. For people who are still learning what works for them, it allows people to try out a verticle pistolgrip and see how they like it.
The one problem I can see is a lack of horizontal adjustment for the cheekpiece. On of the problems that it shares with the Choate stocks. I don't see a problem with unscrewing the factory bipod assembly, installing a jbWeld filler and just installing a regular sling stud for a Harris.
I also think they've come out with a new version that ditches the bipod and just has vent holes.
Some people are willing to work with the 90-50 option.
The one problem I can see is a lack of horizontal adjustment for the cheekpiece. On of the problems that it shares with the Choate stocks. I don't see a problem with unscrewing the factory bipod assembly, installing a jbWeld filler and just installing a regular sling stud for a Harris.
I also think they've come out with a new version that ditches the bipod and just has vent holes.
Some people are willing to work with the 90-50 option.
A2? Nope...but now you have me drooling on an olive green 2094 ...dammit.
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Archangel Review
Figured I would resurrect a somewhat old thread. I have been using this stock on my Rem 700 AAC-SD since last October and can't say enough good things about it. However, I have made some upgrades to the stock to fit my needs and desires. Before I even shot the rifle with the stock I removed the horrible bipod it came equipped with and filled the void with fiber glass resin. I roughed up the void and counter sunk some divots in the stock to promote adhesion. Once the resin dried I mounted a 6" pic rail to the resin and attached my G,G & G bipod to the rail. I now have a q.d. swivel bipod in place. Next objective was to make sure the action was firmly and equally seated in the bed block. I coated the action with black marker and torque it in to the stock. I had a few high spots and was not getting uniform seating. Out came the acraglass and some shims. I bedded the shims in a skim coat of caravans and also bedded the recoil lug area and a little beyond. I did a few more upgrades to the rifle itself, such as a badger bolt knob, Holland's quick discharge muzzle brake/comp to control muzzle flip and dust kicking, along with a custom paint job. I purchased 3 extra mags and have never had an issue with any of them after about 1500 rounds. I do quite a bit of hand loading and have developed a pet load for her. I am shooting sub .75 moa, 100 U.S. groups from the prone with my pet load out of this great rifle and stock that the monetarily endowed shooters would say is "junk" or a "waste". I am a full-time Fireman in a big city that has to work 2 other jobs to make ends meet. Don't get me wrong, I would love to be able to go balls out on all my projects, but have always been able to work with what I can afford. As we say, improvise, adapt and overcome. I will post some pics of Sara Lee, as she has been affectionately named because, nobody does it like her. I will also post a pic of my most recent grouping with her.
Figured I would resurrect a somewhat old thread. I have been using this stock on my Rem 700 AAC-SD since last October and can't say enough good things about it. However, I have made some upgrades to the stock to fit my needs and desires. Before I even shot the rifle with the stock I removed the horrible bipod it came equipped with and filled the void with fiber glass resin. I roughed up the void and counter sunk some divots in the stock to promote adhesion. Once the resin dried I mounted a 6" pic rail to the resin and attached my G,G & G bipod to the rail. I now have a q.d. swivel bipod in place. Next objective was to make sure the action was firmly and equally seated in the bed block. I coated the action with black marker and torque it in to the stock. I had a few high spots and was not getting uniform seating. Out came the acraglass and some shims. I bedded the shims in a skim coat of caravans and also bedded the recoil lug area and a little beyond. I did a few more upgrades to the rifle itself, such as a badger bolt knob, Holland's quick discharge muzzle brake/comp to control muzzle flip and dust kicking, along with a custom paint job. I purchased 3 extra mags and have never had an issue with any of them after about 1500 rounds. I do quite a bit of hand loading and have developed a pet load for her. I am shooting sub .75 moa, 100 U.S. groups from the prone with my pet load out of this great rifle and stock that the monetarily endowed shooters would say is "junk" or a "waste". I am a full-time Fireman in a big city that has to work 2 other jobs to make ends meet. Don't get me wrong, I would love to be able to go balls out on all my projects, but have always been able to work with what I can afford. As we say, improvise, adapt and overcome. I will post some pics of Sara Lee, as she has been affectionately named because, nobody does it like her. I will also post a pic of my most recent grouping with her.
