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Help Selecting an AR for "Service Rifle" Comp

bogeybrown

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Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 21, 2012
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A long time ago in a galaxy far far away I was well above average on the Marine Corps KD Course. Now that I'm middle-aged I think it would be fun to get involved in Service Rifle Comps when I'm done playing around in the sandbox; if for no other reason than to "balance out" my shooting from laying behind a bipod-mounted scoped rifle and keep proficient on the fundamentals of open-sight positional shooting.

I know a number of you gentlemen, Sterling Shooter specifically comes to mind, are actively involved in this area and I'd love some advice on the rifles/upgrades that are worth looking at and the ones to avoid. Currently I've been focusing on the RRA NM because it seems to be well rated, but I'm sure there are other contenders out there.
I don't really have a preference between an A2 or A4, however I DO want a true Service configuration so the bayo lug and birdcage are a requirement.
For now I'm looking for a turn-key setup without having to send it off for all kinds of after-market smithing.

Your help and information is, as always, greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
BB
 
BB,

Any number of good contenders here; RRA is one, Armalite is another and there's several others in the mix as well. I'd avoid the Colts, due to the trigger pin size issues, and regardless of what make you get, you're almost sure to change triggers at some point. Frankly, I'd say most of us either build our own Service Rifles, or have them done by either Frank White at Compass Lake Engineering, or John Holliger at White Oak. Never had one done by John Scandale, but he's a known quantity as well, and I've heard nothing but positive reports back by those who have used his services. Derrick Martin has retaken command at Accuracy Speaks, and I've had several rifles that he's done over the years; all were superb shooters. These four are probably the cream of the crop, as far as Service Rifle builds go, and all can steer you in the right direction here. I'd suggest taking a look at some of Glen Zediker's books on service rifles, as there's a lot of very useful info in them. I know you specified "ready to go", but don't opt out of the building approach without at least taking a look at the field. You'll definitely wind up with a better rifle, and one that affords you better options in terms of more accurate sights, better barrels, better triggers, etc.. Both the A2 and A4 configurations are now Service Rifle legal, so your call on that one. As to the bayonet lug and flash hider, the CMP and NRA no longer require them to remain Service Rifle legal, so that's an option for you as well. Adds only "cool points" and nothing towards your points across the course. I have them on all my rifles, admittedly, just because I'm a traditionalist . . . and it pisses of libs. Let us know if there's anything we can do for you, and we'll see you at Perry.
 
Thanks Kevin, I'd run across White Oak and Compass Lake in my research, and I guess since I have 16 months or so until I'm home I could stand to wait for the lead times from the builders. I suppose I was just leary of doing a build to start with because I don't feel like I know enough to specify what I want or what's important to me. I figured a solid "off the rack" NM rifle would give me a starting point and as I decided "these sights suck" or "this trigger sucks" I could deal with it at that point.
I'm well conditioned to spending huge amounts of money on "custom" rifles, so maybe the custom build is the way to go afterall, since I really do hate sending things off for indeterminate amounts of time to get "upgraded".
Are there upgrades or features that I should AVOID until I've reached a certain level?

Lenny, as much as I love the Garand, I think I'm going to have to start with the AR, since I've spent more time behind one than probably any other rifle.
 
out of the box the RRA AR15A2 NM is great. get the 1/4 minute sights, and expect an accurate life of 3500 rounds. It is capable of HM scores if you are. I have shot in the 780's with one once. I like the sights better than the Armalite, and the trigger is great too, the Gieselle being the only thing better, shoot it until it dies, learn about the sport, learn about the rest of your equipment and get it all figured out,then when its rebarrel time, get the sights pinned
( Keystone Accuracy Custom Rifles, Plymouth Meeting, PA ) get a krieger 1-7.7 with a chamber of your choice, wylde is good, CLE is a little more advanced if you reload, change the trigger to a GA SRNM trigger if you want,and have at it full retard. Most will tell you you need a White Oak or Compass Lake, you don't. They are Nice uppers, but not required.My personal rifle I built with a Krieger 1-7.7 cut by compass Lake, and a pinned 1/4 minute WOA A2 upper, and RRA tube and weights. Easy to do. The Team rifle I am issued is simpler than that, and has been around a LONG LONG time... the log book shows 3-4 rebarrels, and the last one I have put 4700 rds on so far and its still doing well.
 
Thanks Guys. Perhaps I should have mentioned in my original post that I don't currently reload, and although I plan to do so once I finally get my ass home, it would be a huge plus if I could (accurately) shoot match .223 ammo. Ideally I'd love to be able to use some of the cases of XM855 I have stockpiled, but I know that's wishful thinking. Do ya'll handload for the RRA or can I get way with factory match?
 
BB,

A good quality barrel is the heart and soul of any competitive rifle. In the case of an AR, it needs to (absolutely MUST) be free-floated. White Oak does a very nice float tube. You'll want a minimum of a 1x8" so that you can take advantage of the 77s, 80s and 82s that were developed for this game. Nothing wrong with a 1x7.7" or a 1x7" for that matter. They all work, they all have their advocates, and they've all been to the winner's circle . . . take your pick.

Beyond that, a good trigger, and as 2ndPanzer said, they don't get any better than Gieselle. That's the gold standard for match ARs. The standard two-stage target triggers from both Aramlite and RRA will both do good work, too. Just don't try using a standard, rack-grade service rifle trigger in a match rifle, it'll hinder you severely.

Last item is a good rear sight, pinned or not, just so long as there's some system that removes the lash from the unit, and preferably 1/4 x 1/4. Personally, all mine are pinned and I consider them (obviously) worth the cost of the work. Zero movement laterally and they track straight up, and straight down. That's a good thing.

Most other options are exactly that; options. You'll probably want to weight the stock and the forend, but just how much is up to you. Everyone has their own preferences about how they want the rifle to balance or hang. Slings are pretty limited to a small number of M1907 makers, such as Turner Saddlery, Les Tam or a couple others. There's also the choice of leather or biothane (synthetic), and there's something to be said for either. Might also want to consider keeping a standard web sling in the shooting stool as well, just in case. They can come in handy in bad weather (which can be a problem for leather) and they are stupid simple to deal with on the line. Some of the other options you'll start to run into will not be an issue until you actually go over the course a time or two. Then you'll start making some decisions about front sight width, the use of a microsight or other lens set up like those from Bob Jones, etc.. Good barrel, float tube, trigger and sights and you're in business.
 
^^ What BCP, 2ndPanzer and Kevin all said!! ^^

The RRA is a great value for the money for someone just getting into Service Rifle. They are very capable rifles in the right hands and should serve you well straight out of the box with the appropriate ammo/reloads. If you stick with it and decide the you are going to go "all out" with competing, then your money is VERY well-spent on getting an upper (or complete rifle) from WOA/WOP, CLE or the like.

As for A2 vs. A4...you'll get many different opinions on the issue, but personally, I prefer the A2 with 1/4 MOA sights. Again...its a matter of personal preference as to A2 vs. A4 and whether or not to "include" or "exclude" the other features like the BL, FH/threaded bbl, etc. Like Kevin said though...I like them because I CAN HAVE THEM and certain "members" (loosely used term) of our society don't like them! ;)
 
No, you'll want to start handloading, ASAP. Do a short cost analysis on what you're paying for Match ammo, and a Dillon 550 starts looking pretty good, pretty fast.
 
there are only a limited amount you can Mod and be legal, SR is dictated by a set of strict rules. Not alot of wiggle room. other than pinning the sights, you can do the rest in your basement with a vise. the trigger is a personal thing, but 2 stage dominates for reasons youll understand when you actually begin to shoot, and the fact there is a 4.5lb weight limit. ( mine is set for 3.5 pounds first stage, 1.2 second) Sights, again the RRA/WOA/CLE are almost identical, except for the sizes of the hood, they all have to fit the ouward appearance of an A2 sight except the hood is allowed. I like the CLE hoods as they are small and use a .040 size with a std .072 Front sight post. Don't fall for the NM fs post. the wide one is easy to focus on and contrary to thought process actually will help you get tighter groups and better scores. I don't know any top level competitors that don't use a std or "combat" Front sight post. I know alot of people on the military Teams, don't know any using a small sight. If you have any questions, send me a message, I'll help as much as I can.
 
Reloading really is something that you need to do...at least from the standpoint of being most competitive and getting the most out of your rifle possible, not even counting the HUGE savings you'll derive from it even within your first 1k rounds or so which should help to offset the cost of equipment/supplies somewhat.

Factory match will be "ok" but you'll be spending ~$1/round for it (BH, FGMM, etc.) by the time you get it shipped unless you can get it locally and you'll also have to FIND IT.

I disagree on the PRVI "Match" ammo though as I have had extremely inconsistent results with the different offerings I have tried from .223 through .308 over the years. I'll get MOA accuracy with it at one time and then all of a sudden, its 2+ for no explainable reason. I have also had rather large variations in MVs (explaining at least some of the accuracy woes), as well as generally poor QC. By way of example, I have had boxes that had fairly large variations in OALs, especially with the .308 168gr and 175gr stuff. You'll pay more for FGMM and BH, but you'll have something to show for the additional cost both in the ammo itself and the results you'll obtain with them on target at the end of the day.
 
BB,

you might want to check usrifleteams.com as well, as they're far more directly oriented to this sort of competition. There's dedicated forums specific to the M16/AR Service Rifles, the M14/M1A Service Rifles and even the M1. John Scandale's a regular there, as well as guys like Praslick, Singley, and several other USAMU alumni. Good site, specifically oriented to the game of National Match competition, and tons of great information to be found there.
 
If you have to buy ammo, just get 1000 rds of Black Hills 77 grain match. It will work at all 3 ranges, you don't need 3 types of ammo. Guard Team we shoot 77's all the wy back. It does fine. that will give you 1000 pieces of brass to start reloading, and then its pretty easy to make 1000 rounds that will win any match, like 75/77s all the way. it is a 2 minute 10 ring. you can get caught in the wind at times but if its that switchy and fast changing, everyone is getting caught in it and the 80 isn't going to help. Running a 75 vld at 2950 fps is worthy, but not really until you can read wind or shoot in the &50 plus range anyway.

best advice about High Power, listen to everybody but don't listen to everybody....
 
damn you guys type fast....lol


Like Kevin said, go to the national match forums, I am Panzer there... somebody stole my name here and never even uses it... :(
 
EXCELLENT info gents, thank you. White Oak is no longer accepting orders for SR uppers, they weren't when I looked a few months ago and I hoped that had changed, but as of now they're still not taking any more orders and it doesn't appear they will be any time soon.

As for reloading, believe me, I know I need to. I literally inherited a reloading setup that I haven't even unpacked yet. It's got to be 20yrs old, so when I'm CONUS in a few weeks I'll unpack it and get some pictures up on the Reloading board and get some feedback on whether it will work and what I need to add/subtract. I only get about 3 weeks a year in the States, and not all of it at my home of record, so I currently buy large quantities of FGMM and Black Hills when I find it at a reasonable price. I know I'm missing out on potential accuracy and definitely missing out financially, I just don't currently have the time (or knowledge) to reload. When I'm CONUS I want to SHOOT, not load.
Once I'm home for good in 2015 or so, I'll be bugging everyone on the boards trying to figure out which end of a reloading press is up.

My experience with the A2 in this style of shooting is solely based on my time in the Marines, so I'm unfamiliar with some of the available upgrades/modifications. I think I understand what you're referring to with a "pinned" sight, but could someone explain it for me? and is that a service I can have done to an existing sight or does it need to be purchased initially?
 
No, no plans for that, but I have several others on the scheduled for the next few months. I'll be out to AZ for the Creedmoor Cup games at Ben Avery, we have a Fall Mid Range here in MO next month, and an F-Class State Match (I'll be shooting off a sling) over in St.Louis later this month. Couple of smallbore matches as well. I was supposed to be in Raton for the SOA match next week, but had to bail on that one.

I was at Perry for the CMP and NRA weeks, leaving on the first day of the LR matches. Got to meet a few guys that I've "known" from the 'hide, and that's always nice. We're still trying to get a handle on what we're going to do with Perry next year, with the World shoot and all. I can tell you, I DO NOT want to spend a full five weeks on the range. That's just too much of a good thing. In years past I've stuck around for the LR phase as well, and even just three weeks is more fun that you really want. Drop me a PM, and I'll keep you posted. And let me know if you get over to the Midwest for any shoots. Be happy to get together with you then!
 
BB,

The pinned sights are a modified rear that has one or more heavy steel dowels drilled into the upper, passing through the rear sight itself. It/they prevent the sight from torqueing when they're being run up or down. Unlike combat sights, you'll find you actually use the sights a lot, running them all the way down between strings, counting them back up, etc., on every yardline. The pins just ensure that they track straight, with no lateral movement. Not having this, you're subject to sudden, unexplained shifts in POI, for no apparent reason. Well, yeah, there's a reason; your sighs aren't tracking because they haven't been pinned.
 
That's what I was visualizing on a "pinned" sight. Is that something I can have done to an upper? or do I need to purchase it that way?
I'll also start checking out the usrifleteams forum. Do they by any chance have a "for sale" section like we do here? That's all I need is a Service Rifle addiction to compete with my custom rifle addiction :)
 
Yes, they do. Plenty of sources there, and there's always something interesting up for grabs.

As for the pinned sights, Holliger or Scandale are probably your best bet. You can build your own NM AR, and it's really pretty easy. Hoewver, pinning a sight is a true, machining job and not something for the basement gun plumber. Take it to a professional, pay him, and let him work his magic. I just had two uppers pinned by Holliger, and he had them for a few months. John seems to have a much faster turn around time, and as I said, I've heard nothing but good about his work. I know both these guys personally, and they both know their way around the Service Rifle. I'd trust either of them, no worries.
 
BB, John Scandale at Keystoneacciraccy can pin sights and he is fast. Did my AR10 for LR in a week and it tracked a straight line for 80 clicks. Very reasonable too. Also usually has barrels and can build you an upper without the wait. Former All Guard shooter too. Trust me on the RRA, just get it, shoot it till it dies and then make an informed decision based on your experience. They really will shoot .75 MOA or better out of the box. The factory BH or Atlanta Arms will shoot that or better too. One of our guys shot a 200-15x at 600 with it. In our testing it will shoot 1/2 MOA from our rifles. Out to 600. The AMU uses black hills, and a special 75 Berger vld load at 600, the marines use a milieus version of Mk262 and 80 sierras at 600. Some of our guys also use plain old brown box MK262 Mod 1 all the way as well. It really is the Indian not the arrow in HP SR competition, as most rifles are equal. Your RRA box stock can win the nationals in the right hands with factory match ammo.

Kevin, I know what you mean, I shot interservice for two weeks then the full show at perry all the way the through the end. I have calasis on places I didn't know you could have them and most are peeling off quite painfully... And we missed out on a two week train up we usually do. In 2010 we did the whole thing, 62 days straight with only 4 days of not shooting mixed it.... You get real good but it comes with a price physically.
 
BB,

As an earlier post stated, Derrick Martin is back in charge at Accuracy Speaks. He built all my service rifles, and they are outstanding shooters. If you're still looking to get something built, give him a call. I'm pretty sure he can accommodate you without a very lengthy wait.
 
I shot my first season with a RRA NM rifle and had some great scores. My second season I shot a White Oak and it shot as good, maybe slightly better. My third season I shot an upper by Lee Wells at Accurate and Reliable Rifles. I also went Distinguished and got my HM card with this upper. however it did not shoot any better than the White Oak. I have a .22 LR from Compass Lake that shoots bug holes. Pick one and get to the range. I'd also echo the whole reloading thing. I'd be a good thing to get into, most service rifle shooters are doing 2-3k rounds a season.
 
3-5k, some years even more. Either have barrels on hand or a few uppers... I couldn't shoot this much on one rifle. And only 1200-2000 or so in actual comps. And alot of dry firing.

When you dry fire don't just snap in and clickkitty-klack the trigger over and over. Sit on your couch and watch a move and do that. Get your subconscious mind learning the feel of the trigger. Spend your real dry fire time refining your position and natural point of aim down.... And quickly. You only have so much time to fire don't waste it refining a half assed position, spend it focusing on the front sight and breaking clean shots and shooting a small group. Spend your basement dry fire time getting into position getting NPA, click it, change mag, click it, get up and start over, do it again and again. Go through the motions of getting your sling on and set, establishing NPA, standing up, loading on a closed bolt, dropping to position, getting NPA re established, click change, click, sling off start over. (Cmp style matches you stand load on a closed bolt drop down fire no sighters,NRA there is no standing to position, you stay in it, load when targets come up on an open bolt, and you get sighters. I shoot my sighters like I shoot the string. Target up, load mag with single round, close bolt shoulder and fire, drop mag put one more in it, dismount, look at sighter shot, repeat. I do NOT take the rifle from my shoulder during rapids after mag change, and check te scope for shots in sitting, only check the mirage on a tricky day in prone rapid) the idea is, you want to show up to your firing point ready to execute with minimal fuss and minimal time. You only need to worry about your hits and the conditions, not how to sling up, not how to get NPA, not adjust your scope and stool and mags and coat, work that stuff out at home, alot. You want all your focus on tat front sight being centered, on target, and small groups. Nothing else. Prepare for the match the night before. You will not get it all done the next morning. Prepare fr practice the same way. When you do go practice live fire, if your shooting bad.... Stop. Go do something else for 10-15 minutes. And when you start back dont go back to that position, go to another one and come back to it. For rapids, shoot until you clean it, not for time. If it takes you 5 minutes to clean 10 shots sitting, so be it. You have to know how to do it and what it takes and looks like before you can do it more often than you don't. You will get faster, and clean it in 30-40 seconds eventually. If your always rushing and under time, you will rarely clean it. Matches are matches, not practice, and practice is practice, not a match. Practice is for you. Your time your needs your abilities, no one else's. use it to get you where you want to be not where everyone else is. You will get there. When match day arrives just execute your best shots like you saw and executed in practice, and you will make every time limit without trouble and much better groups, and better scores. I can't emphasize small tight groups enough. Your zeros will be rock solid, your margin of error is smaller and your error margin bigger, and scores higher. You will be able to get away with small mistakes on your bad days, and have excellent results on your good days. Offhand is all about NPA. It drifts, watch it. Be aggressive but not jerky. Be thoughtless but mindful of your previous shots, watch the group, pay attention, but execute one shot at a time. Rapids is all NPA and repeat ability of action. It's having your mags ready where you can reach them, it's making a wind call and riding it, a tight group will keep you safe if your wrong... Even 1-1/2 minutes wrong. Don't rush but don't take your time, there is a set amount.... But a 90 with one saved round is a far better score than a 90 with all ten off. Don't worry about time just be mindful of it. 600 slow fire is NPA and wind. Trust your shot call and adjust the sights. Find te safe side of the x ring fr the push an pull winds wind is hardly ever steady... Just like offhand watch the group, watch your NPA. I your at a big no sighter match, wait... Someone will shoot right away with out putting wind corrections on... Especially at the nationals.. Look down the target lines an you'll see it, there's your free sighter... ;) see if it agrees with your cal and if it does, set it, fire and see what happens. If its good, remember what the mirage and the flags looked like and keep shooting when they are that way or close. Hold off when they aren't. If its bad, correct off that shot, and go. Don't over think it.

For all of this to work you need to be able to do a few things, 1. Call your shots. Call them within a spotter. 2. Hold good elevation. This is the key to success. Especially at 600. Points lost to wind happen, points lost to elevation you let happen. The wind can be a brutal factor. The mirage tells speed, flags direction. And of the 3-4 flags you see, 2-3 of them are lying. One is actually telling you what's putting the effect on your bullet. Figure out who that flag is ASAP. And 3. Be able to identify and establish NPA. Critical. You can't do the other two things if you can't do this. Practice this. Everyday. Everytime you grab a rifle, any rifle. It's the hardest to learn and easiest to neglect, and has the greatest effect.

One shot at a time....
 
Guys, your outpouring of imformation, advice, and support is amazing, THANK YOU.

Panzer, your description of the process is exactly WHY I want to get "back" into this type of shooting. As much as shooting, I used to love the preparation for shooting. When I went through the PMI course, the USMC Rifle Team guys teaching the course would talk about sitting on the floor watching football, practicing their positions, working on their slings, etc. I took it to heart and did as much as I could with the limitations I had. You've offered me the rare look into the "next level" of what I'll need to be doing when I get ready to start shooting, and I appreciate it.

I'm hoping that what I used to know about shooting our KD course will at least provide some level of foundation to build on. If there's any other former Jarheads that can offer an insight into what's familiar and what's foreign going from the KD course to Service Rifle comps that would also give me a little idea of where I need to adjust.

I'm glad i started this a year+ out so I can get as many things nailed down as possible before I'm home and able to shoot. It will also allow me to buy what I need while I still have a decent income before returning CONUS to poverty.

Again Gents, your help is already immeasurable, keep it coming.
 
BB,

In addition to what Panzer said (all good, too), check out the Lanny Bassham series on Mental Management. Bassham's a former Olympic gold medalist, AMU veteran, and world champion rifle shooter who developed a program for dealing with competitive stresses, training, practice, goal setting and tracking results that is downright superb. As a starter, take a look at his book, "With Winning in Mind" for starters. Short, to the point, and will absolutely, positively make you a better shooter. Everything Panzer said in his previous post was spot on, but it also needs to be tied into your subconscious to get the most benefit from all that practice. Bassaham will teach you how to do this.

There's a few other books that I'd recommend for this game, but they're relatively few and far between. Unfortunately, this just isn't a game that a lot of truly experienced folks write about! I've been trying to get Mid Tompkins to write a book on handloading for competition for many years now, still without success. Some day, who knows?
 
Great advice, thank you.

Panzer, I "found" you on the National Match forum. I'm still trying to learn my way around THIS place, so it will take me a while to get that forum figured out, but ya'll have given me a great start.
 
Last year myself and a buddy got into the NM game. He purchased a complete RRA A4 NM rifle. I purchased a RRA complete lower with standard trigger, WOA A2 pre ban upper with pinned 1/4x1/4 rear sights and installed a Geissle trigger for HP competition. Now heres the catch...final dollars were about equal when it was all said and done. When I ordered my WOA upper I was on the fence between an A2 or A4, John recommended the A2 configuration for a dedicated match rifle because there was more travel in the rear sight and you don't have to worry about the carry handle possibly working loose.

Hope WOA starts taking orders again. I thought about an upper in 204 or or or ??? :)
 
If you're looking for a "Service Rifle" Comp:

In stock, great company (same place I purchased my LMT from), on sale, free shipping, 20" stainless wylde 1:8twist & meets your requirements for $1250....... You might need to kick your FFL about $25 to receive it. $1275 out the door.

Rock River LAR-15 NM A4 5.56mm 20" BBL (1/4x1/4x.030 Sight)


A long time ago in a galaxy far far away I was well above average on the Marine Corps KD Course. Now that I'm middle-aged I think it would be fun to get involved in Service Rifle Comps when I'm done playing around in the sandbox; if for no other reason than to "balance out" my shooting from laying behind a bipod-mounted scoped rifle and keep proficient on the fundamentals of open-sight positional shooting.

I know a number of you gentlemen, Sterling Shooter specifically comes to mind, are actively involved in this area and I'd love some advice on the rifles/upgrades that are worth looking at and the ones to avoid. Currently I've been focusing on the RRA NM because it seems to be well rated, but I'm sure there are other contenders out there.
I don't really have a preference between an A2 or A4, however I DO want a true Service configuration so the bayo lug and birdcage are a requirement.
For now I'm looking for a turn-key setup without having to send it off for all kinds of after-market smithing.

Your help and information is, as always, greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
BB
 
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If you're looking for a "Service Rifle" Comp:

In stock, great company (same place I purchased my LMT from), on sale, free shipping, 20" stainless wylde 1:8twist & meets your requirements for $1250....... You might need to kick your FFL about $25 to receive it. $1275 out the door.

Rock River LAR-15 NM A4 5.56mm 20" BBL (1/4x1/4x.030 Sight)

Elfster, as usual, you're the man. Thank you!!!

Panzer, looking at this setup and going by your recommendations, I'd just "need" to change over the rear sight aperture and replace the front sight post with a standard A2?
 
No problems my friend. Just make sure that you want the A4 and sight style.... In short, just double check the specs before you commit to purchase. Kentucky gun company is awesome and would purchase from again. Id bet money that rifle would be sub moa right out of the box and RRA sight are actually pretty damn good.

Elfster, as usual, you're the man. Thank you!!!

Panzer, looking at this setup and going by your recommendations, I'd just "need" to change over the rear sight aperture and replace the front sight post with a standard A2?
 
BB: lots of good advice up here
choice of uppers/barrels all depends upon YOUR budget.
RR is excellent out of the box for its price. They use Wilson barrel blanks for their NM barrels. The WOA are also Wilsons, and it certainly doesn't hurt John Hollinger's standings at Camp Perry year after year. I've got a teammate here in TX that took a stock RR with about 2K rounds through it to place in the top 5 in 2012 President's 100 at Camp Perry. What's even more amazing is that he had a 4 year hiatus in shooting and just got back into HP shooting the year before. But, he did shoot for the USMC team before he got out so that RR didn't hold him back.
 
BB, yep that would do it.

Thanks for the reinforcement on the RRA Jeff.

Panzer, Is the aperture change something I can do myself? On the NM rear sight is the aperture the actual opening drilled into the rear sight or is it controlled by what hood you put on the rear sight? I'm trying to figure out how user-changeable that feature it.
I think I'm leaning towards an A4 for a couple of reasons, one of which being that I could send off just the carry handle rather than the whole upper if I wanted the sights pinned or aperture switched. Plus it allows me to mount an optic on it if I want to practice with an optic to get a better "feel" for my position in relation to sight picture etc.
 
Yep, each good is a different sized hole in it, so you swap them as required. I have done it with No change in zero at all. The CLE ones are shorter, the RRA are longer. A .042 is about right for most, and fine in just about any condition.
 
Thanks Panzer, I'm currently working my way through the other forum trying to make sense of some of this. If I were home it would obviously be worth it to have gone to Perry just to hit vendor's row. In fact, since I won't be home till 2015, I'm considering waiting till NEXT year and seeing if I can find someone to pick me up something while they're there.

Jeffin, I don't really have a budget so to speak. I think in terms of what I get for what I spend. I may refuse to pay 500 for one item but will spend 3 times that for another if the value is there. Which I guess is why I'm trying to get the best picture of what equipment is worth having and which isn't so I can then concentrate on GETTING it. I usually spend quite a bit of time researching before I buy (with the exception of those things that you see and just have to have regardless of the price or practicality).