Rifle Scopes When comparing the 5-25's :USO....Premier

[K_4c]

I know this has been discussed, but I need up to date intel.... I got a Beanland build (Bighorn TL2/McMillan A5 adj/Krieger MTU 5r SS .260 rem) in the works that I feel, deserves all of my love (that I can afford)

Of the two listed scopes with Gen2XR reticles:

Which has a more forgiving eyebox?

Which has a clarity edge?

Which has better CS, this will be purchased as a gently used item (transferable warranty?)

Is the internal level on the USO functional or is it a hard to use gimmick?

Feel free to point out any other knowledgable topics.... I've been a long time NF user but I'd like to try one of the two listed.

Side note:S&B is out due to my price range (<$2700).

I appreciate any all all advice rendered here guys...

 

[hk dave]

All reports state the Premier has the more forgiving eye box and noticeably better clarity.

I don't own the USO so don't have first hand experience so take this with a grain of salt... but every report I've read goes along with what I said.

My Premier is easily a match for my S&B.

 

[997/2man]

FPNI. Good Luck.

 

[Captain Kirk]

Premier Heritage is a great scope, they have been plagued with some failures but optically and mechanically they are a fine optic. I have owned a few 3-15s and a 5-25 PH with the G2 XR reticle. I feel you will get better CS with the USO, if you were to have any issues. Its a tough call as far as which one is better, both have great glass, good eye relief and light transmission at higher power. I love the MTC turrets on the PH, but having had one fail myself, I'm still a little hesitant to get another any time soon. That opinion may change, we will see how well the new scopes hold up. USO has a great warranty, CS and a great product, that's the route I would go personally.

Kirk R

 

[Rob01]

Where are you getting either for less than $2700? Premiers are around $3500 and the USOs start at $2845 before you start adding features.

 

[hk dave]

Maybe he's thinking used?

 

[K_4c]

Maybe he's thinking used?

^Bingo

Hence the reason I stated "Which has better CS, this will be purchased as a gently used item (transferable warranty?)"

 

[Rob01]

Even used $2700 is still at the bargain basement price and not too easy to find for either. Can you? Sure I have sold S&Bs for close to that but not super easy to find. You should throw Steiners in the mix as well as you can find them used near that as well.

 

[K_4c]

Even used $2700 is still at the bargain basement price and not too easy to find for either. Can you? Sure I have sold S&Bs for close to that but not super easy to find. You should throw Steiners in the mix as well as you can find them used near that as well.

Agreed. The PH will be hard to find (however, I've located two for $2800) but Lazy and a few other guys on here have USO's ready to go in that price range (or very very close to it). Unless Steiners have the option of being fitted with the Gen2 XR, I have no interest.

 

[poison123]

So at one point I would have given the PH the edge over USO in Clarity and EyeBox. But I just picked up a new USO 3.2 - 17x44 off a prize table.....and the Glass is on par or better than the S&B I've got sitting on my other rifle. Its a very noticeable difference from the USO I had 4 years ago.

 

[K_4c]

^ do you have a production date? Both USO scopes I'm interested in were manufactured in March/April (2013)periods...

 

[Rob01]

Agreed. The PH will be hard to find (however, I've located two for $2800) but Lazy and a few other guys on here have USO's ready to go in that price range (or very very close to it). Unless Steiners have the option of being fitted with the Gen2 XR, I have no interest.

Have you used the Gen II XR? Had one. Hated it. Way too thin. Gets lost easy.

I would take a Premier over a USO having owned a few of each.

 

[poison123]

^ do you have a production date? Both USO scopes I'm interested in were manufactured in March/April (2013)periods...

From what I can tell its a '13 manfu, I'd suspect probably in the last 2 months. But I'd assume anything made this year probably has the same glass.

 

[K_4c]

Yes, I agree the reticle gets a little weak at lower power but I've had no issues at higher mag (10-15x/glass was a PH 3-15)....

Your insight is much appreciated Rob (and the rest of you guys).

 

[K_4c]

From what I can tell its a '13 manfu, I'd suspect probably in the last 2 months. But I'd assume anything made this year probably has the same glass.

Thanks much sir.

 

[K_4c]

I need more feedback on the eyebox topic (through out the mag range)!

 

[JC Steel]

K4C, If you get either a Premier 5-25 or a USO 5-25 you will spend about $2600-$2900 for either scope depending the condition or features on the USO.

I have had both, and my thoughts are this,

Premier has the better glass to me hands down
The USO T PAL elevation knob is awesome
the USO is heavier, and feels more robust, not saying it is more robust, just feels like that.
The Premier has flip lever knobs to rezero quickly which is nice.
Premier has more positive clicks
USO has push buttom Illumination which is better than Premiers Illum in my opinion
USO has better customer service in my opinion, and are more personable.


I would not get a USO with the Ero, to hard to adjust parallax quick while behind the rifle.

Both high end scopes in my opinion. You cant go wrong with either,

I would say if you can find a Premier for under $2600, do it.

 

[R.Walters]

The premiers can be had for sub 2700, they are good deals yes. But they ARE out there. While i have never owned a USO i have owned 4 premiers. I like them a lot. Will continue to use them. The Gen 2 XR is my favorite reticle.

 

[shotdown]

I don't own a 5-25 USO but have tried them and I find that the Premier has the better, forgiving eyebox. I also think the clarity is better on the Premier. As far as the CS, I haven't had to use them but I hear they both have great CS. The Gen2XR reticle has been my favorite so far but it is thinner than my CAPRC reticle on the USO. I have not had any issues with losing the reticle on the Premier though.

My 3.2-17x50 USO does have an internal level. I don't always use it and it can be a little hard to see. I use to own a NF 5-22x56 MLR and in my opinion, the USO and Premier beat the quality of the NF glass. I was able to compare the three (USO, Premier & NF) side by side. Hence why I ended up with the USO and Premier.

 

[K_4c]

I don't own a 5-25 USO but have tried them and I find that the Premier has the better, forgiving eyebox. I also think the clarity is better on the Premier. As far as the CS, I haven't had to use them but I hear they both have great CS. The Gen2XR reticle has been my favorite so far but it is thinner than my CAPRC reticle on the USO. I have not had any issues with losing the reticle on the Premier though.

My 3.2-17x50 USO does have an internal level. I don't always use it and it can be a little hard to see. I use to own a NF 5-22x56 MLR and in my opinion, the USO and Premier beat the quality of the NF glass. I was able to compare the three (USO, Premier & NF) side by side. Hence why I ended up with the USO and Premier.

Was the eyebox tolerable on the 5-25 USO's you shot?

thanks for the feedback sir

 

[Longshot38]

Even used $2700 is still at the bargain basement price and not too easy to find for either. Can you? Sure I have sold S&Bs for close to that but not super easy to find. You should throw Steiners in the mix as well as you can find them used near that as well.

Rob I picked mine up for about $2400. But that was a couple years ago when the new price was just touching the $3000 mark.

As for the OPs question. I have tried both and I prefered the Premier. USO makes a great product but I found the Premier better in design, ergonomics, glass. In terms of customer service both companies are excellent. Paul @ Premier is good people and does great work. USO, well what can I say, I was given a demo scope to try free of charge when I was shopping. And while I ened up picking the Premier that speaks volumes about the kind of company USO is.

 

[Rob01]

Rob I picked mine up for about $2400. But that was a couple years ago when the new price was just touching the $3000 mark.

Yeah a few years ago it was easier but with selling price at $3500 it's harder to find the deals today.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

I prefer the USO for many of the reasons others have already stated. As to clarity, I find that varies from person to person and is very subjective. If we were comparing mid or lower end optics it might be more definitive but on top shelf scopes like these, I think its hair splitting at best when it comes to which people perceive to be clearer. I have no issue with the eye box on either, they both worked well for me so I cannot say one is better than the other.

As for the internal level, one of my USOs has it, the other doesn't. As stated, it can be hard to see with certain dark backgrounds but for the most part it works for me and I find it useful. If the one you come across has it, it's a good find IMO. You can send it back to USO and they will perform maintenance on the scope and install one for I believe $250. I like thats its inside the scope and easy to look at while in the scope. However, on the USO I have that doesn't have an internal level, I put a JEC level on it as a bandaid until I can send it in to USO. Curious enough,what I found was that where I have it mounted on the tube closest to the objective end, I can actually keep both eyes open while in the scope and my left eye/brain sort of superimposes the level in the scope so I am seeing both at the same time, much like the internal level. I may just stay with this instead of sending it back to USO but if I had my druthers and didn't have to send it in, I'd prefer the USO internal.

As to the reticle, I have GAP reticles in both as I too found the XR to look to be too thin at low settings for my liking.But then again, reticles are a personal preference thing IMO so go with what you like.

In either case, either of the 2 optics you are considering you will work well for you IMO.

 

[K_4c]

I prefer the USO for many of the reasons others have already stated. As to clarity, I find that varies from person to person and is very subjective. If we were comparing mid or lower end optics it might be more definitive but on top shelf scopes like these, I think its hair splitting at best when it comes to which people perceive to be clearer. I have no issue with the eye box on either, they both worked well for me so I cannot say one is better than the other.

As for the internal level, one of my USOs has it, the other doesn't. As stated, it can be hard to see with certain dark backgrounds but for the most part it works for me and I find it useful. If the one you come across has it, it's a good find IMO. You can send it back to USO and they will perform maintenance on the scope and install one for I believe $250. I like thats its inside the scope and easy to look at while in the scope. However, on the USO I have that doesn't have an internal level, I put a JEC level on it as a bandaid until I can send it in to USO. Curious enough,what I found was that where I have it mounted on the tube closest to the objective end, I can actually keep both eyes open while in the scope and my left eye/brain sort of superimposes the level in the scope so I am seeing both at the same time, much like the internal level. I may just stay with this instead of sending it back to USO but if I had my druthers and didn't have to send it in, I'd prefer the USO internal.

As to the reticle, I have GAP reticles in both as I too found the XR to look to be too thin at low settings for my liking.But then again, reticles are a personal preference thing IMO so go with what you like.

In either case, either of the 2 optics you are considering you will work well for you IMO.

That helps a lot.... much appreciated.

Side note: Can you or anybody else clue me in on the scope rings needed to clear a 58mm obj? The barrel
is a MTU contour along with a 20moa base on the action... I prefer the obj sits as low as possible.

thanks again!

 

[avidflyer]

Where are you getting either for less than $2700? Premiers are around $3500 and the USOs start at $2845 before you start adding features.

Bought my last 3-15 from Mike at CS for $1950. (used) Then bought a used 5-25 of the board for $2400. Just takes some digging

 

[shotdown]

Was the eyebox tolerable on the 5-25 USO's you shot?

thanks for the feedback sir

To be honest, I'm not happy with the eye relief on mine. The scope is sitting on a Rem SPS Tac on a McRee chassis. I'm a short guy but I actually had to move the stock up to about 13.5" to get good eye relief. Almost feels like nose to charging handle for me. The 5-25 felt the same to me as well. I'm not sure if all USO scopes are like that.

I don't have to do that with the Premier. Also, I've shot LR matches with the Premier and haven't gone down in power past 15x. Last match I kept it at 20x for targets 200-500yds.

 

[hk dave]

So at one point I would have given the PH the edge over USO in Clarity and EyeBox. But I just picked up a new USO 3.2 - 17x44 off a prize table.....and the Glass is on par or better than the S&B I've got sitting on my other rifle. Its a very noticeable difference from the USO I had 4 years ago.

If USO is upping their glass to compete with the Europeans, there's a good chance, my future scopes will be USO.

The ONLY reason I haven't gone USO in the past is the glass issue.

While i know glass itself shouldn't be the deciding factor, I'm a glass snob, so it is very important to me.

 

[jtrax]

So at one point I would have given the PH the edge over USO in Clarity and EyeBox. But I just picked up a new USO 3.2 - 17x44 off a prize table.....and the Glass is on par or better than the S&B I've got sitting on my other rifle. Its a very noticeable difference from the USO I had 4 years ago.

I am in agreement with this ^^ re: USO glass quality at the present time. I primarily run Schmidt 5-25's along with a couple of Premier 5-25's, and March FX 5-40x56. That said, a while back I picked up a USO 5-25x58 Gen II XR. I did not know what to expect as far as glass quality. After many trips to my range and testing the USO in varying conditions against my other scopes, I am I have found my USO to be as good optically as my other scopes. In fact, I've enjoyed this USO so much that I just received my 2nd USO...a 3.2-17x44 GEN II XR.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

I haven't been behind a USO scope... but if the spotter is any indicator. I'd go Premier.

It's not by a mile, apples and oranges comparison IMO.

 

[K_4c]

Can anybody clue me in on the rings needed to clear a 58mm obj (just in case I pull the trigger on a USO) ? The barrel
is a MTU contour along with a 20moa base on the action... I prefer the obj sits as low as possible.... I'm not sure if 1" high will clear without physically haveing the rifle here.

Thanks everybody for you insight.

 

[bward]

So at one point I would have given the PH the edge over USO in Clarity and EyeBox. But I just picked up a new USO 3.2 - 17x44 off a prize table.....and the Glass is on par or better than the S&B I've got sitting on my other rifle. Its a very noticeable difference from the USO I had 4 years ago.

I've had the same experience. I had some USO's a few years ago that I thought lacked in the glass department. I went ahead and ordered some from them this year due to them working with a good friend and I on a custom reticle. When the scopes came in we were both pleasantly surprised with the glass, and felt they compared very well to the Schmidts and Hensoldts. They all tracked dead on as well.

 

[poison123]

I've had the same experience. I had some USO's a few years ago that I thought lacked in the glass department. I went ahead and ordered some from them this year due to them working with a good friend and I on a custom reticle. When the scopes came in we were both pleasantly surprised with the glass, and felt they compared very well to the Schmidts and Hensoldts. They all tracked dead on as well.

Yup. I was honestly shocked, there's a point where you'd swear they were using Scotts Glass.

 

[jtrax]

Yup. I was honestly shocked, there's a point where you'd swear they were using Scotts Glass.

I believe that US Optics is sourcing glass from Schott - Germany. That said, the proprietary lens coatings used are extremely important and often what determines image quality. In my opinion, USO is doing a great job with their glass at the present time.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

Can anybody clue me in on the rings needed to clear a 58mm obj (just in case I pull the trigger on a USO) ? The barrel
is a MTU contour along with a 20moa base on the action... I prefer the obj sits as low as possible.... I'm not sure if 1" high will clear without physically haveing the rifle here.

Thanks everybody for you insight.

It should clear no problem with 1" rings. However the only area of concern would be the bolt knob and the tube housing when you cycle the bolt if you go lower. Low rings (.82/.92,etc) might work fine but it may or may not be a tight fit depending on how big your hands are. I have adjustable cheek pieces on my chassis so I am not overly concerned with the distance between the objective and the barrel. In fact, I probably have more than most unless you are set up for shooting with an NVD attached. I run a larue LT111 with 1.5" and Seekins 1" rings on the other. With 1" rings with the scope cap on the obj end, I have about 1/2",maybe a tad less between barrel and cap. I have a M24 contour barrel.

 

[K_4c]

It should clear no problem with 1" rings. However the only area of concern would be the bolt knob and the tube housing when you cycle the bolt if you go lower. Low rings (.82/.92,etc) might work fine but it may or may not be a tight fit depending on how big your hands are. I have adjustable cheek pieces on my chassis so I am not overly concerned with the distance between the objective and the barrel. In fact, I probably have more than most unless you are set up for shooting with an NVD attached. I run a larue LT111 with 1.5" and Seekins 1" rings on the other. With 1" rings with the scope cap on the obj end, I have about 1/2",maybe a tad less between barrel and cap. I have a M24 contour barrel.

Thanks for the feedback sir... I may try some .92" and if they don't work, I'll rotate them onto my Leupold MK6 (44mm obj).

 

[jtrax]

Can anybody clue me in on the rings needed to clear a 58mm obj (just in case I pull the trigger on a USO) ? The barrel
is a MTU contour along with a 20moa base on the action... I prefer the obj sits as low as possible.... I'm not sure if 1" high will clear without physically haveing the rifle here.

Thanks everybody for you insight.

At first I tried Seekins 6/4 rings which are approx 1 inch in height (my USO ER 5-25x58 sits atop my Surgeon Scalpel 6.5 CM with Krieger #10/MTU barrel). The Seekins were not high enough as the objective contacted the barrel). So I went with a set of NF 1.125" rings and it got the big scope up off the barrel. I would suggest 1.125".

 

[poison123]

At first I tried Seekins 6/4 rings which are approx 1 inch in height (my USO ER 5-25x58 sits atop my Surgeon Scalpel 6.5 CM with Krieger #10/MTU barrel). The Seekins were not high enough as the objective contacted the barrel). So I went with a set of NF 1.125" rings and it got the big scope up off the barrel. I would suggest 1.125".

jtrax, whats your opinion on the length and weight of the ER25?

 

[K_4c]

At first I tried Seekins 6/4 rings which are approx 1 inch in height (my USO ER 5-25x58 sits atop my Surgeon Scalpel 6.5 CM with Krieger #10/MTU barrel). The Seekins were not high enough as the objective contacted the barrel). So I went with a set of NF 1.125" rings and it got the big scope up off the barrel. I would suggest 1.125".

Could I trouble you for quick pic? I'll be running a Bighorn TL2 but the same barrel, I would guess they're pretty close to get an accurate idea.

 

[EasternNChunter]

jtrax knows his scopes! Good dude as well! I can't wait to go shoot a 2.5 year old 8 ptr at his place this December.

 

[jtrax]

jtrax, whats your opinion on the length and weight of the ER25?

The USO 5-25x58 is huge. I know several guys that will not consider running it due to its mass. It is noticeably larger than the Premier Heritage 5-25x56. However, once I mounted it on my rifle I do not notice it balancing any differently than my other 5-25's. I certainly would not put the big USO on a compact 20". Bottom line for me is I do not mind how large the scope is.

 

[jtrax]

USO 5-25x58

Could I trouble you for quick pic? I'll be running a Bighorn TL2 but the same barrel, I would guess they're pretty close to get an accurate idea.

Here is the only pic I currently have on my iPhone. If this does not suffice or you would like a better pic showing various angles, please let me know.

The USO is mounted on my Surgeon 6.5 Creedmoor with OD Green marble McM A5.

 

[poison123]

Ya looks like the USO has got 1.5" on that Bender.

 

[K_4c]

Here is the only pic I currently have on my iPhone. If this does not suffice or you would like a better pic showing various angles, please let me know.

The USO is mounted on my Surgeon 6.5 Creedmoor with OD Green marble McM A5.

The pic was much appreciated. You said you have a little less than 1/2" clearance and no issues with your bolt throw correct?

 

[jtrax]

The pic was much appreciated. You said you have a little less than 1/2" clearance and no issues with your bolt throw correct?

No issues with bolt throw. As for clearance...I mount my scopes as low a possible. Since I use Lens covers (Butler Creek and some Tenebraex) I am looking to mount the scope just high enough for the obj cover to clear the barrel without contacting it. Most of my optics have around 1/16" clearance between obj/bell and the barrel. The exception to this is in the pic I posted earlier, the McMillan rifle (rear of pic) wearing the Schmidt has more clearance than all my others (around 3/8"). However, the barrel on this rifle is a lighter contour than the others.

 

[K_4c]

Understood. Thanks for the intel. Nothing worse then buying the wrong gear and having to sell or eat the return cost.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

Jtrax, how tall is your base on the gun with the USO? I ask because I have a Bighorn action with the bighorn base and I believe it sits up a tad bit higher that my other bases I believe. I'll have to go measure my other base heights and compare but my Mk 1 eyeball says the Bighorn is taller than most bases, but I admit I could be mistaken.

 

[K_4c]

Jtrax, how tall is your base on the gun with the USO? I ask because I have a Bighorn action with the bighorn base and I believe it sits up a tad bit higher that my other bases I believe. I'll have to go measure my other base heights and compare but my Mk 1 eyeball says the Bighorn is taller than most bases, but I admit I could be mistaken.

interested to hear his response... as stated in my original post, I too will be running a TL2.

 

[jtrax]

interested to hear his response... as stated in my original post, I too will be running a TL2.

The rifle is a Surgeon with their integrated 20 MOA rail (Surgeon 591 action). I am away from my rifles at present. I can get an exact measurement tomorrow if need be.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

I just had a V-8 moment and had a chance to do some measuring. As the bases are both 20MOA bases, it makes sense that they would be the same height and in my less than super accurate measuring with a metal tape measure I've come to the conclusion that the bases are the same, roughly 1" at the rear as it sits on top of the action to the top of the rail itself. So I am back to square one and can only assume it's due to the different parts between guns that accounts for the difference.

 

[K_4c]

I just had a V-8 moment and had a chance to do some measuring. As the bases are both 20MOA bases, it makes sense that they would be the same height and in my less than super accurate measuring with a metal tape measure I've come to the conclusion that the bases are the same, roughly 1" at the rear as it sits on top of the action to the top of the rail itself. So I am back to square one and can only assume it's due to the different parts between guns that accounts for the difference.

yep, that's why I'm trying to soak up as much free knowledge as possible regarding ring height... I HATE buying rings and finding out a lower set could've been used with success.

Guys (Jtrax and P03) I appreciate your time in regards to this topic.