What I meant to say is the brass gets formed during firing, but I would not say you need to do a separate fireforming in order to shoot the cartridge.
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What I meant to say is the brass gets formed during firing, but I would not say you need to do a separate fireforming in order to shoot the cartridge.
All brass gets fire formed one way or another. Whether its custom brass being made from other calibers, or caliber specfic brass forming to your cut chamber.
With that said, I own/shoot the 6XC. Have been now for over a year. I plink/practice with it, hunt with it, and shoot comps with it. I love the caliber for all of the above. The only pain in the ass part about it is, like eveyone else said, Brass availability. I'm lucky, I bought 1000 pieces right before the unicorn disappeared in the woods, so I'm stocked up for a while.
When those 1000 pieces are gone, and if the unicorn hasn't returned, I will then address the situation and more than likely build a 6 creed. Just for the simple fact of brass availability.
Aside from there being no brass fountain pouring plenty of brass out, I have nothing but good things to say about the 6XC. The brass is one of the easiest brass out there to size. It mirrors neck tension, reload after reload. I find I anneal it less often than others. Just my .02. Hope it helps.
With that said, I own/shoot the 6XC. Have been now for over a year. I plink/practice with it, hunt with it, and shoot comps with it. I love the caliber for all of the above. The only pain in the ass part about it is, like eveyone else said, Brass availability. I'm lucky, I bought 1000 pieces right before the unicorn disappeared in the woods, so I'm stocked up for a while.
When those 1000 pieces are gone, and if the unicorn hasn't returned, I will then address the situation and more than likely build a 6 creed. Just for the simple fact of brass availability.
Aside from there being no brass fountain pouring plenty of brass out, I have nothing but good things to say about the 6XC. The brass is one of the easiest brass out there to size. It mirrors neck tension, reload after reload. I find I anneal it less often than others. Just my .02. Hope it helps.
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I guess I missing something?
6XC Norma Brass (100) - DIES, BRASS, ETC. by Superior Shooting Systems
Unless the web sites doesn't show current inventory.
Don't know how this brass would form, but it's fairly inexpensive
Graf & Sons - PRVI BRASS 22-250 REM UNPRIMED 100/BAG
Midway has lapua
Lapua Reloading Brass 22-250 Remington Box of 100
I'm going to go out on a limb and say brass availability would not be a concern if I were building a XC today.
6XC Norma Brass (100) - DIES, BRASS, ETC. by Superior Shooting Systems
Unless the web sites doesn't show current inventory.
Don't know how this brass would form, but it's fairly inexpensive
Graf & Sons - PRVI BRASS 22-250 REM UNPRIMED 100/BAG
Midway has lapua
Lapua Reloading Brass 22-250 Remington Box of 100
I'm going to go out on a limb and say brass availability would not be a concern if I were building a XC today.
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I support a few builders that are always consistent in build quality. So help me that I support their business and call them friends at the same time. If it bothers you that much, don't read my posts and continue being angry for no reason. It's a shooting forum, relax a bit. I have not insinuated anything is superior because a certain company makes it. I have shown supported facts and other reasons why a caliber is superior due to my shooting experience, which is in fact why we are all here. To deliver opinions based on our shooting experiences. That's exactly how a forum is populated in case you were curious. I can't help that you don't like that I shoot GAP rifles. George and crew are innovative and constantly moving forward. I like that and enjoy trying out new things. SAC came out with several things that I jumped into with both feet, like the 7mm Creedmoor. Black Ops announced their 22 conversions and I stuck with them for 14 months to get mine done. Jealousy is an ugly cologne to wear. It would behoove you to just drop it and carry on. I will keep doing what I am doing regardless of what you think about it, because I could give two squirts of duck shit what YOU think. Sitting on the internet getting your panties twisted up over what another person says, does, types, and shoots..... be proud of yourself.
I was confused as well. Got it all together now. Any idea how much more case capacity the SLR has over the Creedmoor? Would you run H4350 or a different powder?
I really considered a 260AI at one point, but barrel life worried me. makes you wonder at what stage you consider the 243AI.... I'm seeing that a lot of these are pretty close in case capacity and speeds, not a huge variance that you could call a clear winner.
But when considering match style shooting you still have that limit you can't exceed.
The case capacity on the 6SLR is .5 less than a standard 243, not sure on case capcity of the 6 Creed. H4350 is the go to powder for the 6SLR just like the 243/6Creed, BUT, H1000 seems to be great offering better barrel life, but your definitely going to use more at 47-48 gr worth with a 105. Been looking at the 6SLR for the last few months, going to rebarrel to this caliber and try H1000 as soon as I torch my current 243 barrel.
Your correct in, there is nowhere stating out of stock. I'm curious, if when you check out, you get the backorder ICON. If not, this is the 1st I've seen availability of the 6XC. Of course I haven't looked in over 6 months, so there may be more out there than I thought. The case may be coming around. At least I hope so.
How is the recoil on the 6SLR compared to the 6XC/6CM?
Mark, I'm soooooooo glad you chimed in saying you have a 6SLR Reamer, you'll be getting the call after I burn this 243 barrel out! Been looking at this caliber for a while, seems like a no brainer, just wish Lapua brass would not get the donut since I have several hundred brand new in the box. Good thing I bought several hundred Winchester to use as match brass!
I was looking and considering the 6x47 lapua. I would be using the same 6.5x47 brass I have.
Cases are super consistent, strong and ballistics impressive.
It can reproduce the ballistics of a 243AI but with a lot less powder.
But the key is that with milder loads one can hit the accuracy nodes and still produce
competitive super accurate trajectories.
I had lapua cases last up to 50 reloads with annealing but the main reason is
again, consistency of brass.
Cases are super consistent, strong and ballistics impressive.
It can reproduce the ballistics of a 243AI but with a lot less powder.
But the key is that with milder loads one can hit the accuracy nodes and still produce
competitive super accurate trajectories.
I had lapua cases last up to 50 reloads with annealing but the main reason is
again, consistency of brass.
Should be the same as 6XC/6Creed with either a 105/115.
First it seems some mix up in cartridge names.
6XC
6 Creedmoor
6CM (Competition Match)
6SLR
The 6SLR and 6CM are very close to the same cartridges but the 6CM has more capacity along with other differences in throat and neck. Both can be made from any 308 type brass.
Both are more or less a 30 degree 243 AI. Listen to Hoser about the 6CM. H1000 powder burns slower than 4350 and the barrel lasts longer because of it. Faster than a 243 and better barrel life.
The 6 Creedmoor and 6XC are smaller.
I doubt you can really tell the difference in recoil between any of them.
You are correct. I was inquiring the recoil comparison on the 6SLR to the 6mmXC/6mmCreedmore. I haven't done much research on either the 6SLR or 6CM(Competition Match). Is it fare to say, both the 6SLR and 6CM are closer in size to a .243?
Really? What load are you using to get that kinda speed from the 115s in the XC? I got 3082 with a 28" Bart with my creedmoor and 41.9grs H4350.
6SLR 28" 1:8
Remington 243 brass, neck turned
37.5 IMR4064 105 Nosler (are those Scenar knock-offs?)
= 3200FPS
No pressure signs - just didn't feel like I need any more speed for midrange rig.
Remington 243 brass, neck turned
37.5 IMR4064 105 Nosler (are those Scenar knock-offs?)
= 3200FPS
No pressure signs - just didn't feel like I need any more speed for midrange rig.
Damnit Mark, now you have me thinking about a SLR over the straight .243 that I was going to have Jon put together when the Defiances show up. What powder are you thinking of using? If I could get 3150 or so with 105's and H1000 with Winchester brass and a 24" barrel, I would be pretty much sold. You think that is achievable?
Yes, a little more capacity than a 243. I have a 30 degree 243 that I have been shooting for 8 years now. The difference between my 243 and the 6CM is .003 in throat location and my chamber doesn't taper quite as much. The slower burning powders do not eat the throat as fast as the cartridges using 4350. So with a 6CM you end up with more velocity and longer barrel life. Win 308 brass is just about as easy and cheap as it gets. Win brass will have more capacity than most 308 brass.
Thanks for the clarification.
I do not own or shoot a 6mm of any flavor at this time so I'm relaying some feed back that I have been getting from customers. I'm not sure you will be able to get enough H1000 and get the 105's to the 3150 range. H4350 will do it, but I'm not sure if its a barrel burner. I would like to personally try something a little slower like H4831 SC and see if that is a good compromise between H1000 and H4350.
Mark
Mark
Well ponder this Mark. I ran a straight .243 @ 27" with 105s and H1000 in Win brass and got 3150. Took 46.5 grains and barrel life was about 2900 before I lost velocity and couldn't get it back. It still shot good but was pretty slow (2800). It also fell on its face like over night. 3100-3150 one day, mid 2900s the next and then I chased it till 2800 which wasn't more than 100 rounds later.
Even if I could get 3000ish with a 24" barrel and H1000 with better barrel life I would be happy. I think 4831sc could be a good compromise.
Mark, I was told by a good source to try and run Hodgdon Hybrid 100 in my 6 creedmoor and see how it turns out. I might give it a try.
H4350 will not cause the barrel to burn out any faster from what Im reading and listening to. I think barrel life should be expected to drop off at the 3k mark. Anything past that and you are rolling the dice. IMHO
6SLR isn't going to achieve 3100fps with H1000.
With 110% load density (H1000) and 105 hybrid loaded to 2.890", my 26" barrel clocked 2990-3020, measured via magnetospeed, on a couple different days.
EDIT: 110% load density was ~49.5gr. I saw very little improvement from 48 up to 49.5. I tried LR and LR Magnum primers. Magnums were worth ~25fps. I'll also point out the rifle report with H1000 was very "dull" as compared to the stacotto snap from H4350.
If top velocity with H1000 is your priority, I'd recommend the 6 comp. Match, as it maximizes available capacity from the 243 case - creed type body taper with Ackley shoulder placement.
H4350 will easily outrun the match speed limit, and shoots great.
H4831sc also shoots great and will go the speed limit.
SACs 6SLR reamer puts the 105 hybrid on the lands @ 2.890". Mine shoots fantastic at 2.865".
I don't know that 6SLR does anything 6creed or 243 won't; the three are very, very similar. I'd expect the 6creed and SLR to outlast a 6xc at equal velocities, because the xc requires higher pressure to do it...but that is only speculation on my part.
With 110% load density (H1000) and 105 hybrid loaded to 2.890", my 26" barrel clocked 2990-3020, measured via magnetospeed, on a couple different days.
EDIT: 110% load density was ~49.5gr. I saw very little improvement from 48 up to 49.5. I tried LR and LR Magnum primers. Magnums were worth ~25fps. I'll also point out the rifle report with H1000 was very "dull" as compared to the stacotto snap from H4350.
If top velocity with H1000 is your priority, I'd recommend the 6 comp. Match, as it maximizes available capacity from the 243 case - creed type body taper with Ackley shoulder placement.
H4350 will easily outrun the match speed limit, and shoots great.
H4831sc also shoots great and will go the speed limit.
SACs 6SLR reamer puts the 105 hybrid on the lands @ 2.890". Mine shoots fantastic at 2.865".
I don't know that 6SLR does anything 6creed or 243 won't; the three are very, very similar. I'd expect the 6creed and SLR to outlast a 6xc at equal velocities, because the xc requires higher pressure to do it...but that is only speculation on my part.
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I tried 42.6grs h4831sc this past summer in my 6 Creed, 2nd shot went 2956,(105 Hornady) first shot was 2886, but that was the first shot of the day and the pressure was a bit lower due more than likely to some hint of lube in the barrel. At any rate, if the max was lets say 43grs H4831sc, the velocity would not be much more, maybe 32fps more? Not even close to the 3150+ with 41.9grs H4350. Can't wait to try 43grs h4831 with the BN coated 115s this spring, but Im afraid the speed wont be much past 2900.
Thanks for chiming in with this. My understanding of H1000 and 6CM is that its all about barrel length to achieve those velocities at lower pressures, for instance isn't the CM designed around a 28" + Barrel?
And a few other notes/thoughts on 6SLR:
Lapua: The cartridge creator says not to use Lapua on account of donuts. I haven't personally tried it, but I don't see why it'd be a problem with the long throated reamer; the 105 hybrid is NOWHERE near the shoulder, even when jumping ~.020" or so. Still, I don't see why you'd want to use Lapua. A lot of the draw to the cartridge is inexpensive, prolific and readily available brass from Remington and Winchester.
Dies: Only available (currently) through 6mmar.com as a Redding custom set. Before choosing the cartridge, I was concerned the dies might not be a great match to the chamber reamer, resulting in a "tight" cartridge/chamber fit. NOT the case! Fits great!
Lapua: The cartridge creator says not to use Lapua on account of donuts. I haven't personally tried it, but I don't see why it'd be a problem with the long throated reamer; the 105 hybrid is NOWHERE near the shoulder, even when jumping ~.020" or so. Still, I don't see why you'd want to use Lapua. A lot of the draw to the cartridge is inexpensive, prolific and readily available brass from Remington and Winchester.
Dies: Only available (currently) through 6mmar.com as a Redding custom set. Before choosing the cartridge, I was concerned the dies might not be a great match to the chamber reamer, resulting in a "tight" cartridge/chamber fit. NOT the case! Fits great!
I am running a .243AI right now for shits and giggles and to compare the performance and barrel life vs a Comp Match. As of right now, with 49.3 grains and a 29" barrel and 30P-1 can, I get 3200 pretty easily. At 50 grains H1000 I was seeing 3280 with no pressure signs.if a guy could buy pre firmed .243 AI brass I wouldn't mind staying with it but I really hate fire forming brass. If I wasn't going to compete with this rifle it would be fine as loosing brass wouldn't bother me as much.
Based on having observed little velocity gain despite adding ~1.5gr in charge weight, I suspect my 26" pipe wasn't long enough to permit the extra powder to burn (while still in the barrel), so I think you're right that a longer barrel would've helped.
Still, I was coming up damn short of ~3150!!
I find it curious the 243ai is seeing ~3200 with about the same charge of H1000 that I was using. Considering the SLR has less capacity than the 243ai, you'd expect higher pressure and velocity from the SLR... I have no theory on that.
Frankly, I don't think you can make a poor choice amongst the 6xc, 6SLR, 6creed, 6CM, 6x47L or 243. Each has its nuanced advantages, and each its disadvantages. However, they are all rather slight.
So far, with ~250 rounds through my SLR, I'm very pleased...but I've no notion it's just *better* than the others.
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FWIW I can get 3150+ with a 108gn Berger out of a 6cm and 26" barrel with ZERO pressure and RL-17
Only downside to RL-17 is its not temp stable….. I had some issues with it before in a 6.5 Creedmoor.
My first 6mm barrel (243) I shot out in a 1000 rounds using 115's and H4350. My second barrel is 26" and I'm trying H4831sc with 105's, so far it looks good, cycles smooth and no pressure with 3150fps, I couldn't get close to that speed with H1000.
Ask George what he thinks of it. I got 1k rounds into my 6.5 Creedmoor load and noticed a huge difference from 80degree weather to 55 degree weather. 25 degree swing and I lost about an inch in my zero. That's not good.
Try H4350 or H100 V
It is incredibly temp sensitive. Go out in the summer and shoot some over a chronograph. Now put some in the freezer or a little ice chest with a cold pack and shoot them. You will like see 100 FPS or more swing.
Experience with this round has not indicated this so far, but then again we've only seen about 30* swings so far. It gets in the high 90s in both temp and humidity in the Florida panhandle and down into the 30s in the winter so we shall see.
everyone said RL-25 is temp sensitive too but 4000 rounds in two 243 barrels showed that not to be the case. Thank God I didn't listen to the internet then.
30 degrees isn't much, but I'm surprised that it didn't change it some. I don't listen to the internet either, but I do listen to my chronograph.
I have been using RL17 for over 4 years and it is much less temperature stable powder than most of the Hodgdon powders in my experience. RL17 will push bullets faster than most powers in cases like the 260 and 7wsm with less to no pressure signs but you still will be needing a barrel sooner. RL17 is a hot rod powder and it is a very accurate when using your load in a consistent temp. I did find loading .5gr more for winter loads worked pretty well to keep my zero from summer to winter, with 50 to 60 degrees being the cut off. but at temps below freezing you will run into the same problem. If you live and shoot in an area where the summer and winter temps can fluctuate more than a 100 degrees like I do than RL17 is a poor choice. in my opinion.
That Internet comment wasn't directed at you personally, just saying that I want to see results (right or wrong) first hand.
Got ya. I hope it's not as temp sensitive as my lot was. I bought 20 lbs about 3-4 years ago and gave up on it after the first 10. I've used the rest to fireform various calibers. It would be an awesome powder if they could make it more stable. It smokes everything else in terms of speed.
Indeed, 41.7grs RE17 gave me a high 3259 in my 28" Creed, .2grs more also shot a .689" group at 300. But like someone else mentioned, I just use it for fouling shots and reloading '06 and short mag rounds for guys at work.
So just to clarify your point here: You believe RL17 to be temp stable under most conditions, even a 30 degree change in climates?
Have you tried a different powder? If so, which ones?
Agree here. I chose it because it was a badass performer. When we started cooling down I noticed my dope was not tracking. I was getting 2900 out of my 6.5 Creedmoor with a 140gr bullet, no pressure signs at all.
My point is I believe RL17 is more temp stable than it's given credit for. Sure, it's not H4350 but so far it's been pretty spot on with the changes. Now when I go down to the Finale and it's chilly, I'll shoot and see how far off it is (based on well confirmed dope)
To address bward's point, this is a brand new lot. The packaging is different (I know, only marketing) but rumor has it they've tried to address the "instability" issue.
H4350
VV560 (although abandoned quickly not due to powder but availability/cost)
4831sc will be tried shortly.
Now chances are when I rebarrel and shoot the 105s I'll go back to H4350 as I have about 20lbs of it. But I'm going to shoot out this 5lb jug of RL17 and we will see how it goes.
Good deal. Keep on truckin'
Mike.. keep posting your findings brother..being in hawaii temp -/+ not too bad it stays from 74-85* pretty much all year long.geting powder to try is what worries reloader..ill post results on h4350 and 4831 sc soon... ill try get some rl17 .. all for 105 hybrids on 6 creed
Tnx
Tnx
Just in case nobody posted this
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...actical-shooters-equipment-what-pros-use.html
In the top 20 shooters: 6XC-6, 6Creed-5 so it seems to be a wash. I shoot 6XC because...well, Norma brass! It's perfect! I shoot it in tac matches and 600 yard F-Class matches.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...actical-shooters-equipment-what-pros-use.html
In the top 20 shooters: 6XC-6, 6Creed-5 so it seems to be a wash. I shoot 6XC because...well, Norma brass! It's perfect! I shoot it in tac matches and 600 yard F-Class matches.
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I second that. Good enough for Tubb...
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