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Suppressors Templar Tactical Firearms Archangel 338 Suppresor!

lroseen

Private
Commercial Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 7, 2006
96
2
Utah
We have a new modified version of our Archangel suppressor in 338!!! We took our original Archangel design and went back to the drawing board coming up with what we believe is the lightest 338 can on the market! We were able to keep the same dimensions as the standard Archangel while beefing up other areas of the suppressor for the higher pressures of the 338 Lapua!

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Archangel 338
MSRP will be $1699
Dimmensions will be 9.25" x 1.5"
Threading 3/4" x 20 - 3A
 
Re: Templar Tactical Firearms Archangel 338 Suppresor!

Looks/Sounds awesome, now I just need a .338.
 
Re: Templar Tactical Firearms Archangel 338 Suppresor!

That has to be the single quietest .338 suppressor on the face of the earth! Oh, wait its another video recording....

At some point the buying public is gong to grow beyond the idea that <span style="font-weight: bold">any</span> posted video gives <span style="font-weight: bold">any</span> clue about <span style="font-weight: bold">anything</span> dealing with noise suppression recorded from <span style="font-weight: bold">any</span> suppressor. I don't care whose it is, its useless. Your first clue is the complete lack of any supersonic projectile noise downrange.

If you take the same volume of a monocore that might have suppressed well at .30 (I have yet to hear one that comes close to a baffle build up) and "Beef up" the core to sustain .338 pressures you started with either a .30 can with too much volume, or a .338 can with too little. Its one or the other.

Nothing particular to any brand, just know that all one can tell in a video like this is the width, length and color.

Here is a video of a nuclear explosion covered by a cloth soaked in beer. Now we all know that that does make an almost silent explosion, but that is the only example that might represent realistic recorded sound..

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=+exo...EAA&first=0



 
Re: Templar Tactical Firearms Archangel 338 Suppresor!

Cant tell much from videos but you need to get off that table! That is no way to test for accuracy. It looks like you have some pretty serious barrel whip going.

I have to agree with RT on this one. Taking a 30cal can and beefing it up is near pointless when you get to the pressure levels of the 338. Why not make the can a bit bigger? I would rather have the diameter on the can change then length, any day. As adding to your OAL length on weapon system can get annoying.
 
Re: Templar Tactical Firearms Archangel 338 Suppresor!

It certainly sounds pretty good. The 9.5"x1.5" envelope is small, so that is probably why people are talking about video recordings. The point about recordings is a valid point.

I don't recall really hearing bullet flight when we tested our .338LM suppressor, and it tested very well. It might have something to do with the speed of the projectile and its direction away from the source.

Looks like a nice product, and 14 ounces is extremely light.

 
Re: Templar Tactical Firearms Archangel 338 Suppresor!

Yes... 14 ounces for a magnum can is insane!
But I wouldn't mind a little extra weight for a tad more volume then what you run on your 30cal cans.
 
Re: Templar Tactical Firearms Archangel 338 Suppresor!


This was a prototype test at a suppressor shoot. We were not going for accuracy at this shoot/video, and the first shot in the video was the first shot with this can...it wasn't tested prior because it came straight out of the paint booth. We are on a table because the range we are shooting at has a metal roof and we wanted to get out from under it....hence also the cooler that we are sitting on.

The purpose of this video is to say, "Hey, Templar Tactical Firearms now has a .338 Lapua Magnum Can."

We've stated in other posts, and we know that video cannot capture the actual sound (sound clipping of the video mic), but many companies make videos of shooting suppressors because people want to see videos. If we didn't post a video, then everyone else on here would be asking us for one. We know video doesn't represent suppressors accurately, but it gets you close enough to see if you want to look into a suppressor more. Luke has been traveling around the country doing demos so people can hear what they actually sound like, because of course nothing comes close to seeing it in person.

Here's a rundown of our product line: The Ark = maximum suppression for the 5.56; the design is so robust that we can go up to 30 cal and you can get that one with very impressive sound performance but with the size and weight of the Ark. Then we have the Archangel = maximum suppression for the 30 cal; the monocore design for six sigma of this can is so robust it can go up to 338LM (with design changes) and get the size and the weight benefits of the Archangel (we also do this for our customers because they want a great product at a lower cost and these themes translates to business costs and doing this keeps my manufacturing costs lower). We are thinking about releasing a specific .338 design but the feedback we are getting is why would I want a larger can when I love the suppression and the package of the Archangel 338. Time will tell, and we are going to have more people doing independent reviews and get more feedback before adding more variability to our production system.

As for volume...TTF is starting to prove that our new patent pending baffle technology is cheating the volume debate (it still applies, but we are cheating it with new technology). I cannot give any more clues to the design until after the patent is issued, but I can talk molecules, gas flow mechanics, etc. all day - call me if you want to talk shop. This new technology allows us to produce some of the smallest and lightest solutions in sound suppression.

Note also that not everyone wants the quietest can (especially competitors & L.E.), they want cans that reduce sound pressure exposure, recoil, and that maintain or gain accuracy. They also don't want to stick a tank on the end of their rifle (this is becoming a very common statement from customers, and we like to listen to our customers). Monolithic suppressors are also supposed to have First Round Pop....we've done a great job of eliminating this as well. We are going after the smallest and lightest can designs in the industry that have amazing performance, and rock solid dependability. I've put a lot of thought, design, and development work into TTF cans, and we've been through over 80 different designs and have run computational fluid analysis on all of them to develop this technology. We did this scientifically, not by "I think this will work" designing.

Send me a PM if you have any questions and I'll try and provide you with as much info as I can - Thanks!
 
Re: Templar Tactical Firearms Archangel 338 Suppresor!

It's the Abraxas of .338 rifle cans.
 
Re: Templar Tactical Firearms Archangel 338 Suppresor!

Have you run any of your cans on a meter? I am really interested in the db reduction. Also post when you test for accuracy, let us know about any first round jump.
 
And STILL no db reduction values. Here is a simple and direct question: Using standard military protocols (using an industry standard Bruel & Kjaer Model 2209 sound meter that is properly calibrated positioned 1.6 meters high over a non-reflective surface one meter away from and perpendicular to the muzzle at 90 degrees, either side, held parallel above the ground), average 10 non-suppressed shots and 10 suppressed. What is your dB reduction? For that matter, you are quick to claim the "best" suppression anywhere. What is the dB reduction of all your cans? Better question: Why do I have to ask? Why don't you publish that?

As far as "Nothing comes close to hearing it in person" goes, well, wrong. Science is a wonderful thing. Air is a wonderful ideal gas medium. Bruel and Kjaer Model 2209 sound meters hear much much much better than ANY human. Scientific decibel reduction values not only come close, they DESTROY hearing things in person and are very useful values that anyone can use anywhere even without having the can in hand. I love that science standardizes things such as this for us. Templar boasts a "scientific" design.......while omitting dB reduction values. I promise anyone can make a smaller and lighter can, especially if there is no requirement of any kind for actually reducing the sound. I fully understand the points that not everyone wants maximum sound reduction. However, I can promise you everyone wants a scientific benchmark of what that sound reduction actually is to make their decisions in an informed manner. Not providing the reduction values leaves a STRONG impression that they are simply not very good. Perhaps I'm wrong. Please tell me. Thanks for your time.

P.S. No suppressor can EVER reduce recoil. A muzzle brake or another device that directs gas flow in a direction that helps negate the force of recoil can.
 
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I bet I can figure out who has a vested interest in one of Templars competition, nice first post. Lol


Painfully obvious when the first post is them trashing Templar. The reason he isn't posting data is because it he hopefully making the 1000's of cans he has sold so far!

I have a 30cal Templar and I really like it. For the price, construction, and materials used…. you cannot beat it. Period.
 
DB numbers are subjective b/c while there maybe some level of uniformity in the testing platform and general protocol; there isn't uniformity in every one of the other variables.

I have as much or more faith in the quality of the product, the accuracy, the sound, and the tone of rifle cans based off of the reports of some folks on this board (and a couple of others), than any published DB numbers found on the net - esp if they come from the manufacturer.


IMHO and all that
 
Painfully obvious when the first post is them trashing Templar. The reason he isn't posting data is because it he hopefully making the 1000's of cans he has sold so far!

I have a 30cal Templar and I really like it. For the price, construction, and materials used…. you cannot beat it. Period.

He still has a valid argument. They have some extremely light cans but without DB numbers they are worthless to me. Not worth the risk in my opinion to order a can without any knowledge of the sound reduction.

It would be awesome to have silencershop or some other large dealer conduct a shootout and record some DB numbers.
 
He still has a valid argument. They have some extremely light cans but without DB numbers they are worthless to me. Not worth the risk in my opinion to order a can without any knowledge of the sound reduction.

It would be awesome to have silencershop or some other large dealer conduct a shootout and record some DB numbers.


Not really. I don't put much faith in a DB meter. I put the sound suppression scale on my ears. Everyone perceived sounds differently and what I hear is different from what you hear. If the cans are within 1-2 DB of each other you wont notice it on the range. Put ear pro on and its almost identical. I have ran this Templar can for awhile now and its very quiet (given its materials) and downrange the groups are smaller then they were before. I would much rather see a manufacturer busy making product then out taking DB readings of his cans vs others. Because in order to do that the manufacturer is going to have to obtain other suppressors and those manufacturers may be hesitant to give up their product to competitors. And independent source could do a test but I am willing to bet that the Templar comes in as amongst the quietest.

One of the most popular precision rifle suppressors on the market doesnt even register as the "most quiet". But its repeatability and down range performance are what make it top of its class.
 
They have a good suppression rate Eben, but they are not up there with the lowest numbers. I have quite a few 30 cal cans so I have a good basis of comparison.
 
Not really. I don't put much faith in a DB meter. I put the sound suppression scale on my ears. Everyone perceived sounds differently and what I hear is different from what you hear. If the cans are within 1-2 DB of each other you wont notice it on the range. Put ear pro on and its almost identical. I have ran this Templar can for awhile now and its very quiet (given its materials) and downrange the groups are smaller then they were before. I would much rather see a manufacturer busy making product then out taking DB readings of his cans vs others. Because in order to do that the manufacturer is going to have to obtain other suppressors and those manufacturers may be hesitant to give up their product to competitors. And independent source could do a test but I am willing to bet that the Templar comes in as amongst the quietest.

One of the most popular precision rifle suppressors on the market doesnt even register as the "most quiet". But its repeatability and down range performance are what make it top of its class.

They have three different sizes of .30 cal. I really doubt the 6" and the 9.25" are withing 2db hence the need for a DB reading. It would certainly help weighing the pros and cons of each.
 
They have three different sizes of .30 cal. I really doubt the 6" and the 9.25" are withing 2db hence the need for a DB reading. It would certainly help weighing the pros and cons of each.

Different size cans for different applications are going to be different as they serve a purpose other then just being short. Most of these smaller 30cal cans that are coming online have the 300 Blackout in mind. Subsonic cartridges don't need much volume to work properly. Hence them going short tube. Guys running 300 BLK in SBR form don't want a 9" suppressor hanging off the end of their rig.


If you would do a little search you would find the post that announced the release of the new TBAC cans with some specs provided by Zak @ TBAC…..
 
They have a good suppression rate Eben, but they are not up there with the lowest numbers. I have quite a few 30 cal cans so I have a good basis of comparison.
True, and I'm willing to sacrifice a little quiet for the inherent accuracy of a symmetrical baffle stack.
 
True, and I'm willing to sacrifice a little quiet for the inherent accuracy of a symmetrical baffle stack.

I don't think anyone has questioned the repeatability or accuracy out of a TBAC product! That's why they are so popular with precision shooters.
 
Any one of our cans might not be the "quietest on the market" but we are "amongst the quietest" if you are comparing like products (ie not comparing a "short" to a full size). Heck in that video the 30P-1 is only 0.8 dB off the Cyclone, which is known as a very well suppressing .30 cal can. Accuracy is our game. I'd comment more on the metering vs. ear stuff but I don't want to take over TT's thread. Best regards everyone.
 
Any one of our cans might not be the "quietest on the market" but we are "amongst the quietest" if you are comparing like products (ie not comparing a "short" to a full size). Heck in that video the 30P-1 is only 0.8 dB off the Cyclone, which is known as a very well suppressing .30 cal can. Accuracy is our game. I'd comment more on the metering vs. ear stuff but I don't want to take over TT's thread. Best regards everyone.

I'd like to hear your opinion on metering vs ear. I'm genuinely curious.

Chasing dbs on a centerfire can isn't beneficial in my eyes and other features have more importance. (Accuracy, repeatability, weight etc etc)

From watching the Silencershop .308 QD video it seems like a lot of the cans were off from each other 7-10DB which I would consider a large margin.
 
I'd like to hear your opinion on metering vs ear. I'm genuinely curious.

Chasing dbs on a centerfire can isn't beneficial in my eyes and other features have more importance. (Accuracy, repeatability, weight etc etc)

From watching the Silencershop .308 QD video it seems like a lot of the cans were off from each other 7-10DB which I would consider a large margin.

Just above you said without DB numbers a can is worthless to you, but now you state that accuracy, repeatability, and weight are more important?

DB numbers are for people who want to brag at the range that their can is the quietest. I rarely see any manufacture data be repeated in the real world, be it DB numbers, MPGs or Hp in cars, or anything else you can think of that is being sold for profit.
 
Just above you said without DB numbers a can is worthless to you, but now you state that accuracy, repeatability, and weight are more important?

DB numbers are for people who want to brag at the range that their can is the quietest. I rarely see any manufacture data be repeated in the real world, be it DB numbers, MPGs or Hp in cars, or anything else you can think of that is being sold for profit.

I said chasing DBs.... I didn't say they were worthless. When cans have 10 db difference it really does matter to me. I agree with manufacturer specs; they are often exaggerated. Exactly why an independent test is important.

And... Yes, i'll take accuracy, durability, etc over a few decibels any day.
 
I said chasing DBs.... I didn't say they were worthless. When cans have 10 db difference it really does matter to me. I agree with manufacturer specs; they are often exaggerated. Exactly why an independent test is important.

And... Yes, i'll take accuracy, durability, etc over a few decibels any day.

Pretty sure you said something to the effect of "worthless":

They have some extremely light cans but without DB numbers they are worthless to me. Not worth the risk in my opinion to order a can without any knowledge of the sound reduction.

Sound reduction is no longer king of the hill when choosing a quality can, oddly enough they all are pretty close in DB reduction. More or less it falls into tones. I want to know its repeatability when taken on and off, downrange accuracy, weight, and DB reduction. If you take all the Ti cans of similar sizes they all sound about identical. So which of those Ti cans produces the best accuracy? I want that one out of the group.

That is what determines the suppressor I buy for my precision rifle....