How low can you dial down and still use the FFP reticle?
Say a 15x max mag and reticle utility at 6-8x.
A 25x max mag, difference?
Say a 15x max mag and reticle utility at 6-8x.
A 25x max mag, difference?
Rifle Scopes Useful FFP Reticle / Magnification Range
- Thread starter SporterII
- Start date
No difference. If your reticle has subtensions for ranging - whether mrad or moa- 6x is 6x from scope to scope.
Now as to how low can you dial down and still make accurate use of your scopes subtensions would depend on your own eye's ability to resolve. Depends on your eyesight, basically.
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fxdrider is right about the usefulness of the FFP reticle at lower magnification range being will depend on your eyes (mine are not what they used to be so I am very limited at 4-6x). However, when a target is close enough that I'm dialed down it's usually close enough that I'm not ranging and I have no need to use the reticle for doing anything other than pointing and shooting. Depending on the size of the target and a few other things (like how flat the round is so I'm not talking about a 30-30) this is usually within 250 yards.
I got behind my scope this morning just to verify what I can actually make use of. The Vortex PST 4-16x50 has the EBR-1 reticle, with hashmarks 1.0 and 0.5 mrads. In addition to that, the top 3.0 mrads on the verticle as well as the left and right sides of the horizontal are further subtended to 0.2 mrads. I can see and use the 1.0 and 0.5 substension marks all the way down to the scope's minimum 4x, but the lowest my eyes can resolve the 0.2 subtensions is 6x. Lower than that and they appear to be just a thick line.
Now, all of the above was observed with the reticle illumination off. When I turn it on (brightest setting and viewing in daylight), now I can make out the 0.2 marks all the way down to 4x.
YMMV
.
Now, all of the above was observed with the reticle illumination off. When I turn it on (brightest setting and viewing in daylight), now I can make out the 0.2 marks all the way down to 4x.
YMMV
.
Eyesight doesn't have much to do with it so long as your diopter is properly adjusted. You should be able to see the subtensions at just about any magnification.
Tell that to my 56 year-old eyes.
I have my diopter adjusted properly, and I just went to check to make sure I wasn't missing anything. With magnification dialed all the way down to 4x and looking at a plain background, I can indeed "see" the smallest subtensions, but I they tend to disappear when viewing objects. For me personally, I wouldn't be able to rely on them for an accurate measurement at that magnification, particularly since I have the ability to dial up just a bit and voila! - they become more visible and usable to me. Just one of the things we deal with as we age, I guess. But again - your mileage may vary. Everyone's different.
I shoot the PRS skill stage that has 3 targets spaced 25 and 50 yards apart all at 400 yards on 6 power. That's about as low as I can go. I'd like to be able to shoot that particular stage with 4-5 even. The targets are huge and it's all about field of view and transitioning.
Realistically my eyes barely pick up enough of the reticle to use it at 6 power
With a ~25 power optic most guys shooting competitions will stay in the 10-15 range for just about everything.
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Realistically my eyes barely pick up enough of the reticle to use it at 6 power
With a ~25 power optic most guys shooting competitions will stay in the 10-15 range for just about everything.
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Good eyesight makes a substantial difference, I remember.
Also reticle thickness. Take the March FML1 reticle for example, IIRC it's .1 mil thick, you can see it with less than ideal eyes at 3-4x.
Of course contrast of reticle against target helps. Lighting too.
This is where I see Athlons Cronus 4.5-29x56 APLR reticle standing out. It's thick enough but not too thick and it has daylight bright illume. I could adjust the intensity against dark backgrounds which helped me see and put the crosshair exactly where I wanted it and that's holding off for wind included because the whole reticle lights up except the thick bars towards the edges.
Also reticle thickness. Take the March FML1 reticle for example, IIRC it's .1 mil thick, you can see it with less than ideal eyes at 3-4x.
Of course contrast of reticle against target helps. Lighting too.
This is where I see Athlons Cronus 4.5-29x56 APLR reticle standing out. It's thick enough but not too thick and it has daylight bright illume. I could adjust the intensity against dark backgrounds which helped me see and put the crosshair exactly where I wanted it and that's holding off for wind included because the whole reticle lights up except the thick bars towards the edges.
Not just eye sight, but expectation factors in to how low you can use a FFP reticle. If you expect to clearly see all of your mil lines at 4 power, some reticles do better than others. In all seriousness, you can use some reticles at 2x effectively. If you are running your scope that low, your target is probably close enough where a 1/10 mil off won't make or break your shot.
For me a lot depends on how the reticle was designed, for example, with the Bushnell DMR II 3.5-21 I can clearly see the hash marks at 3.5x, but with the March 3-24 I could barely pick out the hash marks. The expectation with a FFP scope is that you're not going to be using the scope at its lowest magnification to shoot at things, what you want the low magnification for is FOV. With most of my scopes I can effectively use the FFP reticle at around 5x magnification but in a pinch I could also use the scope to shoot at the bottom end should the situation ever require such (which very few situations do).
Another good example would be the Kahles K624i SKMR reticle vs. the Vortex AMG EBR-7 reticle. These are two scopes with similar specs as both are 6-24 magnification scopes
If you are on the low powers it really helps to turn on your illumination as well. Makes the reticle easier to see. But that said the times you are on those lower powers is pretty limited. I have rarely gone below 8x on any scope. I have shot 50 yard movers on 10x before. For a match scope you will live in the 10-18x range for the most part. I wouldn't worry too much about the lowest power in a 6-24 or 5-25x scope as if you need the lowest power that much then you have the wrong scope.
Interesting comment. I have asked here because I have found myself preferring lowest magnification I am able to use. Fov? Mabie.
Under pressure in particular. I am older and slower. Fov must be a major factor.
I have good sfp 3.5-15x50. I have been using the 1 min reticle at 7.5 ish. A lot. Still trip myself up.
Bought a 2.5 to 10 FFP and it was horrible. To me unusable reticle under 10x
I have my eye on a Kahles 312. Cannot see one but think it will be better somehow.
The right scope ?
Under pressure in particular. I am older and slower. Fov must be a major factor.
I have good sfp 3.5-15x50. I have been using the 1 min reticle at 7.5 ish. A lot. Still trip myself up.
Bought a 2.5 to 10 FFP and it was horrible. To me unusable reticle under 10x
I have my eye on a Kahles 312. Cannot see one but think it will be better somehow.
The right scope ?
After reading this thread yesterday , I tried running my 5 - 40 FFP March on 5x , and successfully hit all the steel on my regular range .
As Rob01 mentioned above , around 15 x is a nice balance between FOV and clear target view out to 750 or so . It's very nice to be
able to dial up to 40 x however , to identify targets out to 2500 or much longer for ELR .
As Rob01 mentioned above , around 15 x is a nice balance between FOV and clear target view out to 750 or so . It's very nice to be
able to dial up to 40 x however , to identify targets out to 2500 or much longer for ELR .
I'm not quite sure where to steer you as I fear you may not like any FFP scope. But I'm also wondering if it is simply a learning curve. After using SFP scopes for most of my life it was difficult at first to transition to the "smaller" reticle at lower mags. It sounds like you might own a Nightforce NXS? I also wonder if you're not after more FOV, and if a more plain mildot style reticle wouldn't be better. Check out a used Premier LT 3-15x50 with mildot reticle, or if you can afford it a Tangent Theta 315M. The increased FOV and enhanced image quality from high end optics may help you see what you've been missing. Heck, I'd even recommend a S&B Ultra Short 5-20 because it's reticle is very usable throughout the entire zoom range and the FOV is almost as good at 5x as your NXS is at 3.5x.
OP, here is a shot of the Premier/Tangent Theta 3-15 mildot reticle at 3x, kind of hard to see (any through the scope image is difficult to pickup how the reticle looks) but I think it gives you an idea. Then I have shots of the S&B Ultra Short 5-20 with P4L reticle through the range to give you an idea...
That first picture of the 3-15 is exactly what I was talking about in my first comment. If you are at that low of a power, you are probably centering that reticle on the target and pulling the trigger. You won't be worried about hold overs for a close engagement.
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