Looks good to me. I’d actually load 42.8. In my opinion the node is 42.5-43.1. 42.8 is in the middle.
- Thread starter Sportin Wood
- Start date
^^^ Mustang is right about where you should retest - IMHO. My flat spot was 41.5 to 42.5 (all around 2800fps) and I settled on 42.0 for an even number using Peterson and 42.3 for the Hornady brass with its larger internal capacity. My AI Bartlein 24" does seem to be fast - or my Labradar is lying to me.
From an AR10 with 18” Criterion SS barrel.
130 grain Sierra Game Changer
Hornady Brass
CCI BR 2 primers
IMR 4471
43.1 grain charge
Loaded to 2.790” oacl
13 of 15 rounds hitting 3/4 scale silhouette steel target at 750 yards.
MOA or better at 100 yards
Will confirm velocity later this week.
130 grain Sierra Game Changer
Hornady Brass
CCI BR 2 primers
IMR 4471
43.1 grain charge
Loaded to 2.790” oacl
13 of 15 rounds hitting 3/4 scale silhouette steel target at 750 yards.
MOA or better at 100 yards
Will confirm velocity later this week.
Something was screwed up royally.. It was me. I use an accurized Lyman M5 beam scale and I had the main counterbalance 5 grains low.. Im an idiot.
Seriously wondering where to begin. I usually find flatter spots than I see in this graph...
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In my opinion it’s the Hornady brass. I know lots of people get good results with it but that’s not my experience. From what I see there I’d just load 42.4gr and go shoot it.
Seriously wondering where to begin. I usually find flatter spots than I see in this graph...
I found the same thing, Hornady brass. I'm stubborn and it took proof with premium brass to see dramatically better results. Now I'm contemplating what to do with all the Hornady brass I have. Should I sort it by weight? Should it go in the brass recycle bucket? Sell it?
Sell it for cheap to someone just starting to get into longe range casually or someone that will use it for hunting. I had 1,000 pieces that I sold for .10/piece to a buddy of mine that was just starting out. He was very appreciative and it’s worked well for his needs. It’s a win win and you’re helping someone get into the sport.
I can't seem to load anything that will out shoot the factory 143 gr ELD-X in my rifle. I'm not an expert at reloading but usually can develop something that shoots better that factory rounds. The factory 143 gr ELD-X out of my 22" Bergara shoots 2,579 FPS; Slower than I really want to be shooting. I've done the ladder test and found a few nodes, loaded right in the middle of them and no luck. All shot between 1 MOA and .75 MOA. Loaded them and tested same nodes again with same results. The Factory ELD-X's are .5-.75 MOA for me. Where should I go from here? What about the factory bullets do you think is giving me better results? Is it that the rifle likes the velocity they're going? Should I try loading to the 2.815 OAL to match them?
I've been loading 143 gr ELD-X projectiles, Hornady brass, Fed 210 primers, H4350, @ 2.850 OAL.
I've been loading 143 gr ELD-X projectiles, Hornady brass, Fed 210 primers, H4350, @ 2.850 OAL.
Change your brass. Maybe try RL16 powder.
I've seen a number of people struggle to get good accuracy out of the 143 ELD-X. Not sure why. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you're getting good accuracy out of factory loads with that projectile. Load them to the same length Hornady does like you suggested.
What powders have you tried? I just started reloading/testing in 6.5 CM and I'm using 147 gr. ELD-M in once fired Hornady brass and trimmed .25 MOA off my best groups with Factory ammo on my first attempt. Starting loads of 43 gr - 43.8 gr. of RL-26 loaded to 2.810 OAL.
Factory Hornady 6.5 CM is gonna be hard to beat as it performs .75 MOA for me @ 100 yards. I'd try a different powder.
VooDoo
Only powder I’ve tried is H4350 which everything I’ve read says it is the go to, but I really am not impressed with the velocity it gets me. At 42.8 gr I started seeing light ejector mark and was at 2,752 FPS. I know that’s partly due to barrel being 22”. I’m waiting on some RL-16, my brother works for Alliant and gets me great deals whenever they do employee orders. I do happen to have 1lb of RL26 sitting unopened. If it shoots that good for you it may be worth a try. What kind of velocity are you getting with it?
I'm still using Hornady brass with excellent results, I've got lots of it and don't want to change to something else. Also using Hornady brass I don't feel bad if I lose a lot of it in a match. Here's my best recipes after working up loads with both H4350 and IMR4451. Both IMR4451 and H4350 loads will shoot under .5 MOA in my rifles.
Rifles: FN SPR w/ 24" Bartlein barrel, AIAW with 24" Bartlein barrel. COAL seated to magazine length, 2.83"
Brass: Hornady 6.5 CM
Primer: CCI BR2
Powder: H4350, 42.5 grains
Bullet: Hornady 140 ELDM
Avg velocity: 2754 fps
Brass: Hornady 6.5 CM
Primer: CCI BR2
Powder: IMR4451, 41.8 grains
Bullet: Hornady 140 ELDM
Avg velocity: 2723 fps
So far I like IMR 4451, its a little more temp sensitive than H4350 but it's easily available from any of our powder suppliers.
Rifles: FN SPR w/ 24" Bartlein barrel, AIAW with 24" Bartlein barrel. COAL seated to magazine length, 2.83"
Brass: Hornady 6.5 CM
Primer: CCI BR2
Powder: H4350, 42.5 grains
Bullet: Hornady 140 ELDM
Avg velocity: 2754 fps
Brass: Hornady 6.5 CM
Primer: CCI BR2
Powder: IMR4451, 41.8 grains
Bullet: Hornady 140 ELDM
Avg velocity: 2723 fps
So far I like IMR 4451, its a little more temp sensitive than H4350 but it's easily available from any of our powder suppliers.
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I'm still curious about using RL26 for 6.5 cm since I realized I bought some about a year ago and never used it. I know VooDoo said start at 43.0 gr, anyone else have a good recipe that they use for RL26? I saw someone say they are using over 46.0 gr. I couldn't find any data on Alliant's website for RL26 in 6.5 cm.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...l16-rl26-h4831sc-h4350-test-and-data.6887351/
Lot's of great information.....I'm just starting and did not check velocity on my initial loads. They are real mild but given the lack of data on RL-26 for 6.5 CM I started 10% of data acquired for 147 gr. bullets. Weather and temps here are shit and I'm a lightweight so I'll resume testing in about 6 weeks or so.
VooDoo
Lot's of great information.....I'm just starting and did not check velocity on my initial loads. They are real mild but given the lack of data on RL-26 for 6.5 CM I started 10% of data acquired for 147 gr. bullets. Weather and temps here are shit and I'm a lightweight so I'll resume testing in about 6 weeks or so.
VooDoo
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That is some good info. Thanks
Try playing with your seating depth if you are getting good velocity and low SD/ES. Could be a barrel timing issue, which will usually resolve with playing with the seating depth.
I was shooting RL26 in my Creedmoor for a while. Great groups with 47 grains, Lapua brass, cci 450, and 143 eld-x at .02” off the lands moving 2870 with a 24” benchmark. Problem was high ES and SD. Best groups at 47 grains, but ES of 42 and SD 15. Not great. Switched to 42 grains of 4350 and went to a Es of 12 and SD of 7. Speed was down to 2780, but under .5” groups. Happier with that. Still need to do a little playing around to fine tune it.
I heard RL26 and small rifle primers don’t get along. Maybe thatnwas my issue.
I have read the same thing about RL26 and SRP's in several places. It also seems to be a pretty common thing with the RL26 that people get good accuracy, great velocity, but high ES and SD, at least from what I have gathered. It seems like a lot of people that were using it have switched for that reason. I'll probably continue trying to fine tune my H4350 load and use my extra supply of RL26 as a backup plan.
My buddy is getting 3000+ FPS with a 26” barrel with no pressure signs using R26 and 140 ELDMs
Seams a little crazy to me too. I’d be interested in the neck tention and volume of power used for this?
Same as my load, 47.3g R26 with .001 tension but I’m only getting 2900 out of a 24”
I’m using a 27” plus break, JP recoil eliminator, and I’m at 2850 with .001 tension and 42gns of h4350. I’m using the h4350 for its thermal stability, I’m up in the mountians in Canada. I’m guessing, just a guess though, that maybe he’s closer to lands, and getting more pressure? But that would lose stability/accuracy/precision... have you been able to get any information on his SD/ES or group sizes? I feel like I’m reaching to make sense of it though... 140’s and 142’s just shouldn’t be moving that quickly. Personal opinion.
I know for a fact because I just shot with him and personally witnessed it that he shot a 5 round group of 6.5” @ 1000 yards on paper with magnetospeed showing an SD of 2!!! .020” OTL shooting at 1100ft elevation.
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I'm trying to hunt down a problem/inconsistency with my loads. With 3 shot groups, I am consistently shooting 2 shots touching and one flyer about .5"-.75" off. I shot 2 groups back to back with the same load and they looked almost identical. Same thing when I messed with seating depth a little, different point of impact but still 2 touching and 1 flyer. All Hornady brass fired 1x, cases are tumbled, sized, primer pockets cleaned, flash holes uniformed, and seated to 2.820 OAL. I tried 2.850 OAL and still had two touching and one flyer. These are loaded at 41.9 gr H4350 which is right in the middle of a node. I would say its just me doing some poor shooting but the fact that it has happened almost identically like 6 times makes me think it can't be just a coincidence. Tonight I am going to weigh the empty cases and sort by weight and see if case inconsistency could be the cause. Anyone have any other suggestions that I may just be overlooking? I hate to give up on this charge weight because if i could eliminate that flyer then it would be a sweet load.
By the way, the flyers aren't happening every first shot or last shot or anything, it seems to be at random, and I am letting the barrel cool every 4 or 5 shots.
By the way, the flyers aren't happening every first shot or last shot or anything, it seems to be at random, and I am letting the barrel cool every 4 or 5 shots.
Attachments
Are you using Nosler RDF's by any chance?
Sorry, I forgot to put that in there. I'm using Hornady 143 gr ELD-X's. I don't remember having that problem with their factory loaded ones but it keeps happening with my handloads.
Hey mustang, have you had issues with rdfs doing this??? I'm having the EXACT same issue in a gas gun. Two touching or in the same hole then a flyer.
No I haven’t. I’ve actually never tried the RDF’s for this exact reason. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve read how they won’t shoot consistently
Thanks for the info. I won't waste anymore time with them then.
Question for you all, after running some test loads up to 42.5 I have 2 with 4.4 and 4.5 SD's. However another load with sd's of 9.5 shoots much better than both of the others. Way better.
My first time using a ladder system. I don't really see a definite flat spot per say in velocity but looked for the smaller variations in SD's to find a place to start. Shots all taken at 100 yards.
I need to get to the range to see how they perform at futher distances but is that a normal thing to see?
My first time using a ladder system. I don't really see a definite flat spot per say in velocity but looked for the smaller variations in SD's to find a place to start. Shots all taken at 100 yards.
I need to get to the range to see how they perform at futher distances but is that a normal thing to see?
Test at distance. The lower SD will likely be more consistent at distance than the one with larger SD but small holes at 100. But, a lot would still love a SD of 9.
I would say try adjusting your seating depth with the ones at the lowest ES/SD and see if you can tighten up the groups. If you are doing a ladder test looking for velocity nodes then you can’t pay too much attention to the group size as that can be fine tuned. Like ripdog said, you won’t see the difference until you get out to longer range but the more consistent the velocity, the more consistent the point of impact. I second him that an SD of 9 is nothing much to complain about.
Thanks to both of you! Just wanted to confirm my own thoughts with folks who are more exprerienced.
One more ?............I started rather low looking back. Started at 39.0 of H4350 and worked my way up in .2 grains. My highest load (42.5) has a SD of 11.8 , Ave velocity of 2814. Using Magneto crono.
Best SD's were 40.8(sd5.2) and 41.6(sd 4.5) Fired two batches of 5 rounds to confirm.
Would it be reasonable to assume there is another really low SD load to be found with more powder? I never had any sort of pressure signs during my tests.
Best SD's were 40.8(sd5.2) and 41.6(sd 4.5) Fired two batches of 5 rounds to confirm.
Would it be reasonable to assume there is another really low SD load to be found with more powder? I never had any sort of pressure signs during my tests.
All 3 of my 26” Bartlein Barrels have settled in at 2835 FPS as their node with 140 ELD’s so yes most likely your close to another node
Like Mustang cars, my Berger 140 are going 2849 from a 23.5” Muellerworks. I would test until the primers flatten, slight creater or swipes show. Back off then but push until you see some signs of pressure spikes.
As to your other post, that same load has a larger ES/SD than I want and about .4”@100 but are very consistent at 890 yards with first round hits easy. I do it often as do many others here, chase every 1/10” and every FPS but the trick is find one that works and know it. Shoot more and learn, chase FPS less.
Thanks to all...much appreciated!
I have a Seekins Havak Pro HP1 with 24" barrel, AAC SDN6 suppressor.
Brand new out of the box with factory Hornady 140gr ELD-M it was going around 2715fps and tiny groups.
I started loading my own with new Starline Brass small rifle primer, CCI450 primers, H4350 powder, and 140gr ELD-M
I found a flat velocity node from 42gr to 42.4gr. I picked the middle at 42.2gr and adjusted seating depth.
With 150 rounds down the barrel I was getting 2,777fps with single digit SD around .4" at 100y.
Now I have about 250 rounds down the barrel and I'm on my second loading with the Starline Brass.
Yesterday the velocity was around 2,885fps with 9SD.
Would the 100fps jump be from the barrel being 'seasoned' or from the brass being once fired? Or both? I'll take the extra velocity, didn't see any pressure signs, and groups were still <.75" at 100y.
Also does that 2,885fps seem impossible? I thought so, so I shot 9 rounds to make sure. Couldn't believe there was that much of an increase and I really didn't think my 24" would throw then 140gr's that fast.
Brand new out of the box with factory Hornady 140gr ELD-M it was going around 2715fps and tiny groups.
I started loading my own with new Starline Brass small rifle primer, CCI450 primers, H4350 powder, and 140gr ELD-M
I found a flat velocity node from 42gr to 42.4gr. I picked the middle at 42.2gr and adjusted seating depth.
With 150 rounds down the barrel I was getting 2,777fps with single digit SD around .4" at 100y.
Now I have about 250 rounds down the barrel and I'm on my second loading with the Starline Brass.
Yesterday the velocity was around 2,885fps with 9SD.
Would the 100fps jump be from the barrel being 'seasoned' or from the brass being once fired? Or both? I'll take the extra velocity, didn't see any pressure signs, and groups were still <.75" at 100y.
Also does that 2,885fps seem impossible? I thought so, so I shot 9 rounds to make sure. Couldn't believe there was that much of an increase and I really didn't think my 24" would throw then 140gr's that fast.
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Still investigating but ran a pressure series yesterday with 7828ssc behind 147gr ELDs today. 10 rounds with .5gr between charges. Started at 42gr and ended at 46.5gr. 46.5gr gave 2886fps. Primer was a little flat but no heavy bolt lift and no ejector mark. All ten rounds went into a group a little over an inch. Not going to go any higher though..,
Winds permitting, group testing today....
John
Winds permitting, group testing today....
John
Grouped 3 different charges today, 44, 44.4, and 44.8gr. None of them showed me anything special, grouping about .8” for five shots. Extreme spreads weren’t great either, running about 37fps. I’m going to load some up and see how they do at long range just for grins.
John
John
.4 and .5 charge difference leave a lot on the table. I would shoot for .2-.3 charge spreads for testing.
