Doing a 338LM build need action suggestions.

[Desert Rat]

I’m going to do a 338 LM build McMillan A6 stock and I need suggestions for barrel manufacturers and actions? I could use help with the process as well this is my first time “building” a gun from ground up so I’m curious what y’all suggest to buy first...get done first...and then match up with parts. Thank you in advance

 

[kthomas]

Defiance Deviant would be my recommendation for the action. You can custom order it in almost any configuration you can imagine. I have a Defiance Deviant action that I use for my .300NM action (same bolt face as .338LM) and really like it. Make sure you specify CIP mag length for the mag cut when ordering. Another popular option is the Surgeon 1581XL, but it can be hard to come by and requires larger shank barrels = more expensive and not as easy to find.

For barrels, any of the popular top tier brands are a good choice: Krieger, Bartlein, Brux, Hawkhill, Benchmark, Rock Creek, etc. Barrel length and contour is personal preference, most seem to be around 28" to 30" and in heavier contours. I personally use 28" barrels in MTU contour.

 

[BCX]

I would suggest a Defiance Deviant in a hunting rifle and the Surgeon XL for a heavy tactical build. I have one of each in 338 LM AI and prefer the Surgeon actions. Surgeons run well w Cerakote and Defiance needs Ion Bonding or to be ran bare.

 

[Defiance Machine]

I would suggest a Defiance Deviant in a hunting rifle and the Surgeon XL for a heavy tactical build. I have one of each in 338 LM AI and prefer the Surgeon actions. Surgeons run well w Cerakote and Defiance needs Ion Bonding or to be ran bare.

That's because our clearances are tight. If we know you're going to run cerakote, we do have an option of undersizing the bolt just slightly to accommodate the cerakote. That said, we will always recommend DLC over cerakote for a multitude of reasons, that we will not go into here.

 

[spife7980]

That's because our tolerances are tight. If we know you're going to run cerakote, we do have an option of undersizing the bolt just slightly to accommodate the cerakote. That said, we will always recommend DLC over cerakote for a multitude of reasons, that we will not go into here.

And dlc over nitride?

 

[Defiance Machine]

And dlc over nitride?

Yeah, but we understand the cost may be prohibitive for some, so we do still offer nitriding.

 

[Terry Cross]

I would suggest a Defiance Deviant in a hunting rifle and the Surgeon XL for a heavy tactical build. I have one of each in 338 LM AI and prefer the Surgeon actions. Surgeons run well w Cerakote and Defiance needs Ion Bonding or to be ran bare.

I assure you that a properly spec'd and built Defiance can run exceptionally well on a true working "tactical gun" .

This is one of 3 LongSwords built three years ago for an agency. It is laying in my shop floor due to me having them rotate in for a bottom metal upgrade. You can't tell from the pic but this rifle has already been dragged all over the place and used hard. Cycling the action is as slick as any I have ever built.

Barreled action is CeraKote Elite. Bolt body, cocking piece, firing pin and extractor are all finished with DLC (I.H.I. IonBond in NC).

I will put a properly spec'd Lapua Mag Defiance paired with the new KMW Long action bottom hardware against anything else being custom built.

./

 

[Terry Cross]

....and I have built a bunch on the Surgeon XL so I am familiar enough with them to compare.
They were fine actions and I still have SN: 14 in the safe that was my demo magnum rifle but I am very happy with everything Defiance is doing for my customers.

@Defiance Machine

./

 

[Defiance Machine]

I assure you that a properly spec'd and built Defiance can run exceptionally well on a true working "tactical gun" .

This is one of 3 LongSwords built three years ago for an agency. It is laying in my shop floor due to me having them rotate in for a bottom metal upgrade. You can't tell from the pic but this rifle has already been dragged all over the place and used hard. Cycling the action is as slick as any I have ever built.


View attachment 7147170

Barreled action is CeraKote Elite. Bolt body, cocking piece, firing pin and extractor are all finished with DLC (I.H.I. IonBond in NC).

I will put a properly spec'd Lapua Mag Defiance paired with the new KMW Long action bottom hardware against anything else being custom built.

./

Love me some KMW...

 

[Carolina Hill Billy]

Consider a single shot as well. Then the AI versions and newer 33XC can give more performance at longer ranges than standard versions without regard to OAL. BAT M is a great action and serves well as a switch barrel setup.

 

[BCX]

My point was! MY Defiance w Ion Bonding and internal polish will only run slick w a good coat of oil on it. Now my guess would be in a dirty dusty environment i would run into issues. My Surgeon XL w cerokote can run smooth dry if needed. Not saying one is better than the next.

 

[kthomas]

My point was! MY Defiance w Ion Bonding and internal polish will only run slick w a good coat of oil on it. Now my guess would be in a dirty dusty environment i would run into issues. My Surgeon XL w cerokote can run smooth dry if needed. Not saying one is better than the next.

Interesting. Mine runs really good (also polished rails and IonBonded), and is miles ahead of the cerakoted Defiance Rebel/GAP Crusader action I once had on my PRS rifle. It's never given me any fits, and feels really slick whether its lubed or not.

I personally wouldn't cerakote any action now with the plethora of other good surface finishes/treatments available these days.

Edit to add: I will say that my Defiance Deviant that is polished and IonBonded is on my ELR/.300NM rifle, so it doesn't see the extended abuse my PRS rifle does. But it does run great for its intended purposes.

 

[GIXXER2000]

Or you could just get an AXMC that are on sale and have the option to run different calibers like 300NM or any other Lapua size bolt faced round you my want to try. Just saying it may be worth a look and no waiting for months for components and gunsmithing.

 

[kthomas]

Or you could just get an AXMC that are on sale and have the option to run different calibers like 300NM or any other Lapua size bolt faced round you my want to try. Just saying it may be worth a look and no waiting for months for components and gunsmithing.

I would only recommend that if the AI systems works for him and he can work around the limitations (ergonomics, trigger, accessories, etc). The AI is a great system, but its built as a "one size fits most" solution that doesn't work for everyone.

A custom you can build to your specs and preferences 100%. I would take my custom rifles over an AI 10 times out of 10. But I can understand why some people may prefer an AI system over a custom.

 

[Defiance Machine]

My point was! MY Defiance w Ion Bonding and internal polish will only run slick w a good coat of oil on it. Now my guess would be in a dirty dusty environment i would run into issues. My Surgeon XL w cerokote can run smooth dry if needed. Not saying one is better than the next.

I understood your original point, and I politely offered an explanation and a solution to why cerakote does not do well with our actions. You only just now went into how your action doesn't run smooth without being coated in oil, and I invite you you to contact us at the shop, so we can look at it and see what's going on with it, as we guarantee all of our actions and your experience is not the norm.

 

[BCX]

I understand your tight tolerances. Again was not bashing your product. We have been in contact.....before the barrel was spun up. I just couldn't wait any longer on this project for the action to be ION Bonded a second time. Sending you a PM.

 

[Edds]

What about extraction and ejection?

Doesn't the Surgeon XL have a more robust extractor and a better ejection angle?

 

[Terry Cross]

What about extraction and ejection?

Doesn't the Surgeon XL have a more robust extractor and a better ejection angle?

DIfferent but No.

./

 

[Terry Cross]

I understand your tight tolerances. Again was not bashing your product. We have been in contact.....before the barrel was spun up. I just couldn't wait any longer on this project for the action to be ION Bonded a second time. Sending you a PM.

Not trying to be a word Nazi but you need to differentiate between clearances and tolerances. BIG difference in where explanations are trying to make any sense.

Standard default "clearances" between Defiance receiver and bolt is minimal. The action can be spec'd to include a reduced bolt body diameter. This is one of the things that makes a difference depending on the final end use of the rifle and it falls on the builder and the customer to have enough product education to insure a good outcome.

Don't complain to a car manufacturer if you spec'd out an Indy car and then want to complain that it gets high centered and bogged down when taken to off road trails. A metric schitt ton misinformation is consistently regurgitated on the internet and people just keep running with it.

BCX, only the first sentence is meant as a reply to you. The rest is just a rant in general.

./

 

[BCX]

This post has turned in the wrong directions. My original post was not to publicly bash a product.

 

[BCX]

Mr Cross, Defiance did the Ion Bonding and Internal polishing. The specs on clearances and tolerances where set on their end. My smith only spun up a Proof barrel. I have no problem running oil on this bolt!

 

[kthomas]

What about extraction and ejection?

Doesn't the Surgeon XL have a more robust extractor and a better ejection angle?

You can order a Defiance action with M16 extractor and single or dual plungers.

I can't speak to the difference in extraction angle, but I don't think extraction is going to be an issue with the Defiance.

 

[Edds]

You can order a Defiance action with M16 extractor and single or dual plungers.

I can't speak to the difference in extraction angle, but I don't think extraction is going to be an issue with the Defiance.

Why would they offer a dual ejector plunger option if they didn't think there was an issue with only one?

 

[kthomas]

Why would they offer a dual ejector plunger option if they didn't think there was an issue with only one?

Because some people may want two. Defiance allows you to custom order an action with a plethora of options, that's the purpose of allowing custom builds - options.

I run one plunger on my .300NM Defiance, it works great and I have zero concerns about ejection.

 

[BCX]

Im also running one plunger w no issues from my Defiance 338 AI.

 

[BCX]

Why would they offer a dual ejector plunger option if they didn't think there was an issue with only one?

Best thing to do is give Norm a call at Defiance. He can answer all your questions.

 

[Prebanpaul]

YOu may have already purchased your 338. If you want a great action, buy a TRG-42

 

[Defiance Machine]

Not trying to be a word Nazi but you need to differentiate between clearances and tolerances. BIG difference in where explanations are trying to make any sense.

That's my fault Terry. It's been a long week, and I'm the one that initially said tolerances when I meant clearance.

 

[Defiance Machine]

Why would they offer a dual ejector plunger option if they didn't think there was an issue with only one?

Because we put the "custom" in custom actions, . Seriously though, we offer almost countless combinations of options for our custom actions, as every person has a different opinion on what they do or don't want, or what works or doesn't work. You would be surprised what we offer that we don't advertise for the sake of not creating rabbit holes so to speak, lol.

 

[BCX]

That's my fault Terry. It's been a long week, and I'm the one that initially said tolerances when I meant clearance.

I was just going w the flow of things.... Terry loves to correct me

 

[Terry Cross]

That's my fault Terry. It's been a long week, and I'm the one that initially said tolerances when I meant clearance.

My bad for not reading the entire thread more carefully.
I had just had similar conversations with 2 guys at an agency that were trying to spec out some rifles. It was like pushing 6 feet of chain. I was all triggered and woke when I stumbled into this thread....

 

[scharfschutze762]

I had a Defiance rebel and Surgeon XL built at the same time with same barrel, stock, reamer, ect.
After a couple of worn out barrel changes on both on both guns I will say both are incredible actions. But I will have to give the slight nod to the Defiance as I think the primary extraction and ejection is better than the Surgeon. I have had to call the customer service with both companies a couple of times for nothing at fault of the manufacturers and Surgeon was very good and Defiance was incredible.
I receive no discount from either company.

 

[Edds]

Because we put the "custom" in custom actions, . Seriously though, we offer almost countless combinations of options for our custom actions, as every person has a different opinion on what they do or don't want, or what works or doesn't work. You would be surprised what we offer that we don't advertise for the sake of not creating rabbit holes so to speak, lol.

I want a round Rebel style action with an integral lug and rail like the Deviant Hunter has. I want it to have a 1.400" in diameter with a 1.125" tenon thread, a Lapua bolt face with a plate extractor in the bolt lug, and a Rigby BDL magazine cutout. If available in chromoly, I want that. If not, I'll take stainless.

Is something like that available?

 

[BCX]

What issues did you have w both actions? Just worn out springs?

 

[Defiance Machine]

I want a round Rebel style action with an integral lug and rail like the Deviant Hunter has. I want it to have a 1.400" in diameter with a 1.125" tenon thread, a Lapua bolt face with a plate extractor in the bolt lug, and a Rigby BDL magazine cutout. If available in chromoly, I want that. If not, I'll take stainless.

Is something like that available?

Most of it, yes, a few things though not at the moment. If you would like to go over all the options we offer that might not be on our website, please feel free to give us a call at the office, and we can run through them with you.