MOA vs Mil

[Mike Casselton]

You need to add arshins as a unit of measurement to argue about.
You know, gotta be inclusive these days.

Furlongs was mentioned earlier in this thread.

I like furlongs. They use it in horse racing.

If we can get it set up in furlongs, then the standard subtensions could be in Horse's Asses.

HA for short.

Now I realize some horse's asses are bigger than others, some are smaller.
However, it takes a certain amount to be a true Horse's Ass. That shall be our standard.

I bet the people arguing over MIL vs MOA will fit right in with the Horse's Asses.

 

[Mike Casselton]

What the hell does my houses electric meter have to do with shooting?

No, no, no! Your gas meter.

 

[Newbie2020]

Will Rogers said, “It ain’t what we don’t know that gets us in trouble; it’s the things we know for sure that just ain’t so.”

 

[308pirate]

No reply @chickon1 ?

He's busy coming up with non sequiturs to answer me

 

[Mike Casselton]

I see a lot of comments but nothing to back them up. Sorry I can be more specific.

Milliradian is based on .001 radian, notice the work Milli in there??? which is metric, (Designed by Europeans, which uses the metric system)

MOA is based on 1/60 degrees (Designed by the UK, which uses the imperial system)

 

[Ledzep]

When you believe in things,
That you don't understand,
Then you suffer.
Superstition ain't the way.

-Stevie Wonder

 

[eelman308]

Y'all know he's sitting back laughing his ass off looking at this thread. Yes, he's still an idiot and probably can't hit shit beyond 100 yards / meters / footsteps / squirrel balls / whatever.

 

[Newbie2020]

Bear pit is our new home. It’s the home of non sequiters

I think @chickon1 took his math and went home. Few fudds can survive the bear pit.

 

[Newbie2020]

100 squirrel balls. @lowlight would like that

 

[Mike Casselton]

You guys keep proving my point. You "fixed" my grammar with improper grammar then added...:

I just did that for people like you that try to belittle people's grammar on forums that I could care less if it is proper grammar or not. I have mainly seen this trait from people with no augment or facts to back up their own statements.

So you're telling us you have the ability to care less, but you don't?

Or, are you trying to say you couldn't (could not) care less?

I would hope that you're giving it all you've got instead of short-changing yourself and the rest of us.
Correct your errors and in the spirit of Veer, please see me after class.

 

[Fig]

What I learned from this thread is that an undergrad degree is now of less value than no degree at all. I’m sure this fool considers himself to be highly educated, but he literally can’t think. He literally cannot understand that his precious relationship between linear measurement and angle is incidental and of little to no use in percision shooting. He will not relinquish this stupid notion no matter how many ways the supremely patient marksmen of SH try to explain it. This from someone who supposedly is degreed in maths, which are distinguished by having a “correct” answer... Usually some toothless hillbilly who can barely type gets it in two, three at most, posts. This guy goes nine pages and still does not get it. That has got to be a record. At this point I want to know who this guy actually is And where his degree is from @THEIS

 

[Mike Casselton]

^^^^This.

But let’s talk.

That opossum is one proud dude!

Your first premise is wrong. If your using squirrel balls, that is all you need to know to correct aim. If the other folks with you also use squirrel balls, that is what you use to communicate corrections. If you are then forced to convert to opossum balls to communicate with another competitor, then a conversion factor comes into play (note that no linear units are involved up to this point). All angular units, and a correction factor that is a ratio, also in angular units.

Range estimation, and or communicating about range, brings in the first set of units that are uncommon between squirrel testicle lovers versus opossum testicle lovers (y’all need help, just sayin’). And even that does not matter as long as we are all shooting at the same target.

So unless someone wants to use reticle range estimation, or estimate the linear dimensions of some target, there is no need for linear units.

Finally, some of us actually estimate range in other units (opossum balls to continue the analogy).

So communication stays in angular units when correcting windage and elevation. Only a ratio is required to convert between angular units. Or you just tell the squirrel team to figure it out on their own

Assuming the testicles on squirrels have a standard diameter and we are using that to determine what they subtend at 100 yards.

Wouldn't 200 yards be 1/2 a squirrel nut, not 2 nuts?

Do they get smaller as the distance increases or is this a 2FP issue?

 

[Fig]

African squirrel or English Squirrel?

 

[Dthomas3523]

I’ll give one free pass from a ban-able offense to anyone who legitimately gets the OP to use any of the following words out of anger:

cock sucker
Mother fucker
Fuck you

Or any variation of the usual forum suicide posts.

 

[Threadcutter308]

You guys keep proving my point. You "fixed" my grammar with improper grammar then added a statement in improper grammar. Never said I be good at the grammar but for your sake.

DON'T (do not) is the negative form of DO while DOESN'T (does not) is the negative form of DOES.

Use “a” before words that begin with a consonant as in “a banana,” “a xylophone,” or “a red convertible.”
Use “an” before words that begin with a vowel as in “an apple,” “an editor,” or “an eager beaver.”

However, words that start with the letter “H” do not follow the rule for consonants. For the letter “H”, the pronunciation dictates the indefinite article:

I just did that for people like you that try to belittle people's grammar on forums that I could care less if it is proper grammar or not. I have mainly seen this trait from people with no augment or facts to back up their own statement.

Have you met @DannC yet ?

Bwa, ha, ha, ha.........

 

[Halfnutz]

 

[Fig]

Wishful thinking. The lord blesses morons with happiness.

 

[Bender]

I’ll give one free pass from a ban-able offense to anyone who legitimately gets the OP to use any of the following words out of anger:

cock sucker
Mother fucker
Fuck you

Or any variation of the usual forum suicide posts.

Challenge accepted

 

[308pirate]

I’ll give one free pass from a ban-able offense to anyone who legitimately gets the OP to use any of the following words out of anger:

cock sucker
Mother fucker
Fuck you

Or any variation of the usual forum suicide posts.

OK

 

[Bender]

Yes, bringing this up again because I can never get a real answer, even during a match with the top shooters. I know this is not really that big of a deal with calculator and all. What is even more odd, I have watched videos on people not in the US doing reviews on certain items and they are using MOA.

Just like stirring the POT..

Why do we use mil if all the targets are in yards. I consider myself "good" at math, but solving equations with less variables seems to be easier.

"Reasons" I've heard for Mil
They are in tenths.. that would be great if you were using meters
Mil uses whole numbers instead of factions.. really? Not after you do the math
It's what the military snipers use.. Being a vet, military uses meters
It's what I learned on..
The reason I use mil== the dude with the $2K weather station in my caulk is calling out wind corrections in mil!
I only have to come up 1mil vs 64424 clicks on MOA, which in PRS, makes a difference when adjusting for yardage . It about the same clicks but double the whole numbers and less of them, which is easier to deal with under pressure.

About the only thing I've figured out is maybe all the really high-end scopes that are made in Europe use mil only for a while and mil "dot" reticles came out earlier to use for range est.

Easy Math for yards and bullet drop or est. distance:
1 MOA @ 100 yards equals 1 inch
1 Mil @ 100 meters equals 10 centimeters

Harder Math:
1 mil @ 100 yards = 3.6 in

Adjustments:
.10 mil = .36 in
1/4 MOA = .25 in

How much do you bench?
In your days of engineering, how much concrete have you poured?

 

[atepointer]

I’ll give one free pass from a ban-able offense to anyone who legitimately gets the OP to use any of the following words out of anger:

cock sucker
Mother fucker
Fuck you

Or any variation of the usual forum suicide posts.

Well, since 'chickon' could be referring to rooster or cock can that suffice as ban worthy? And he has shown by example to be pretty much the definition of the pejorative slang he checks 2 ban-ables!

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

You guys better hide, lol.....real deal here....Joint Special Forces......

But at least his trash can lid is closed, lol

So he is retired CW4 at the ripe young age of 44 years old....GOOD on him if that is the case but now is an Engineer???

And how does an Engineer not know how the physics of flame, smoke and airflow work???

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Mike Casselton]

The high school stab was for the constant engineering stabs at me.. They can dish it but can't take it I guess. Anyway boss man, only point I was trying to make is that for me at least, it's easier to do the MOA math than it is for MIL.. that's it .. due to moa for shooting uses inches and yards vs mil using cm and meters. Not talking about using reticles, turrets, calling out MOA and converting to mils, impact corrections with reticle or sprinkling cocaine on the bullet so it won't drop as much. I do believe squirrel balls were used at some point as a reference.

Most of the responses were:
You are an idiot
WTF do inches have to do with MOA
WTF linear measurements have to due with MOA or MIL
You are an idiot
Milliradian is not metric even though it is in the name. Kinda like Antifa I guess.

Actually, all of the responses boil down to, why are you doing math if your reticle matches your turrets?

The rest of the responses are for our entertainment.

 

[Bender]

The high school stab was for the constant engineering stabs at me.. They can dish it but can't take it I guess. Anyway boss man, only point I was trying to make is that for me at least, it's easier to do the MOA math than it is for MIL.. that's it .. due to moa for shooting uses inches and yards vs mil using cm and meters. Not talking about using reticles, turrets, calling out MOA and converting to mils, impact corrections with reticle or sprinkling cocaine on the bullet so it won't drop as much. I do believe squirrel balls were used at some point as a reference.

Most of the responses were:
You are an idiot
WTF do inches have to do with MOA
WTF linear measurements have to due with MOA or MIL
You are an idiot
Milliradian is not metric even though it is in the name. Kinda like Antifa I guess.

Listen smoothbrain, you obviously have a piece of paper from a hack school that bolstered your ego to the point of Dunning Kruger Effect.

basically, you think you are smarter than your actual abilities indicate. Your Hubris is holding you at the peak of Mount Stupid.

 

[Mike Casselton]

@chickon1 has GOT to be a troll. If he was serious he would have by now either (a) figured out @308pirate knows what he’s talking about or (b) completely written us off as hopeless.

Or else he genuinely believes he’s the smartest person on SnipersHide.....hahahahahahahahahahaha

It's probably Mike from Altus. He knows my new LH twist barrel is out for delivery and he just knows I'm sitting on the front porch, bored and waiting for that fucker.
I had two cups of coffee and I need to pee. Should I take the chance and go inside, or just pee in the planter in front of me?

 

[Aftermath]

You're a fucking MORON.

They did a show about you called ENGINEERING DISASTERS

There is a reason a vast number of people precede the title "engineer" with the descriptor "fucking".

 

[DuneBoer]

Hi,

You guys better hide, lol.....real deal here....Joint Special Forces......

View attachment 7558445

But at least his trash can lid is closed, lol

View attachment 7558446

So he is retired CW4 at the ripe young age of 44 years old....GOOD on him if that is the case but now is an Engineer???
View attachment 7558453

And how does an Engineer not know how the physics of flame, smoke and airflow work???
View attachment 7558460

Sincerely,
Theis

Joint Special Forces. I remember those days man...
.

 

[502Chevelle]

I still say that I can tig weld a gain twist extension on your
barrel that will give you more velocity AND accuracy, then it won’t matter if corrections are called in moa or mil, because you will never miss your target to start with!

 

[lash]

No reply @chickon1 ?

As has become very obvious, he/she/it has zero clue how to use a scope reticle, much less how to properly apply math in real world situations.

It's probably Mike from Altus. He knows my new LH twist barrel is out for delivery and he just knows I'm sitting on the front porch, bored and waiting for that fucker.
I had two cups of coffee and I need to pee. Should I take the chance and go inside, or just pee in the planter in front of me?

6mm 8 twist? What action?

 

[Mike Casselton]

Grabbed a LH gain twist 6.5.
The 6s are easier to find and I'll grab that next.
Most likely going on an origin action as soon as I rid myself of the floating money hole.
I'll get both of them spun up at the same time.

 

[LeftyJason]

Earlier in the thread he said he is a computer science degree systems engineer.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Earlier in the thread he said he is a computer science degree systems engineer.

Oooohhhhhh..........

 

[Dthomas3523]

This thread isn’t even at 500 posts. 1k or bust.

 

[502Chevelle]

Have you ever had someone ask you a question, and they didn’t really want to know the answer, they really just wanted to see if their way was right, and find out it isn’t, then they argue to the end of the world trying to prove they were right to start with.
And for the rest of you, y’all missed an important point. He was a fucking officer! That means he could never be wrong, and you shouldn’t question his authority. I can’t believe the disrespect that y’all heaped on this douche bag.

 

[TriggerJerk!]

It's been said for going on 8 pages. Don't use math at all. You see the bullet splash and you say that was 1, 2, 3 little scope marks away from where I was aiming. Then, magically, you either dial those 3 little marks into the the next trigger squeeze or your hold those 3 little marks.
The really cool thing about this method is that it works no matter what units those 3 little marks represent at whatever the distance you were shooting at.

Squirrel testicles, if I remember correctly, are the preferred unit of measure.

 

[LeftyJason]

Squirrel testicles, if I remember correctly, are the preferred unit of measure.

Did we ever get a determination on whether it was width or height?

 

[lash]

 

[atepointer]

Have you ever had someone ask you a question, and they didn’t really want to know the answer, they really just wanted to see if their way was right, and find out it isn’t, then they argue to the end of the world trying to prove they were right to start with.
And for the rest of you, y’all missed an important point. He was a fucking officer! That means he could never be wrong, and you shouldn’t question his authority. I can’t believe the disrespect that y’all heaped on this douche bag.

This is sometimes referred to as an AskHole.

 

[Sgt47]

This thread isn’t even at 500 posts. 1k or bust.

 

[Huskydriver]

I’ll give one free pass from a ban-able offense to anyone who legitimately gets the OP to use any of the following words out of anger:

cock sucker
Mother fucker
Fuck you

Or any variation of the usual forum suicide posts.

He's no daisey

How much do you bench?
In your days of engineering, how much concrete have you poured?

Bow kills... You forgot does he have over 200 bow kills....


I would assume so being joint special forces and all. I would hope he would have some tomahawk kills in there too or he's straight frontin

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Last week I couldn't spell 'engineer' and now I ARE one!!!

And I'm betting that in the battle of wits, he'd like a second chance. And it's "flying squirrel"....

 

[6.5SH]

Did we ever get a determination on whether it was width or height?

Is the squirrel sitting up or running on the ground or a branch? The ovals on the USMC mildot reticle are in both orientations for a reason.

 

[TriggerJerk!]

I would actually use 1.047in if I was trying to be precise in which I'm not but wouldn't you have the same issue with MIL?? You involve even more variation converting inches to mil. I just use a damn calculator like everyone else for precision shooting.

Howdy. No I don’t have that issue in mils calculating cm. I am just moving the decimal if someone wants linear measures at that range: 1 mil at 736m is 0.736m or 73.6cm. It just does not get any easier.

Inches (1/36yd), feet (1/3yd), and yards just require more ‘fiddling’. If you round to 1” per 100yd, you are close enough (which I have always believed was your point) out to ~1000yds. No harm, just not my preferred way.

But no one is estimating anything for windage or elevation corrections. We are all just measuring with our reticles (mils, moa, squirrel testicles, or MILOA).

 

[Dthomas3523]

Number 1 best way to tell if someone actually shoots and/or practices/knows fieldcraft:

They put any emphasis whatsoever in the math behind things like ranging. When math is needed, you have time to do it anyway you want. Speed doesn’t matter.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Have you ever had someone ask you a question, and they didn’t really want to know the answer, they really just wanted to see if their way was right, and find out it isn’t, then they argue to the end of the world trying to prove they were right to start with.
And for the rest of you, y’all missed an important point. He was a fucking officer! That means he could never be wrong, and you shouldn’t question his authority. I can’t believe the disrespect that y’all heaped on this douche bag.

Officer or warrant officer?
So many titles and I just don't care enough to try.

But yeah, I noticed that as soon as I opened the bio.

 

[TriggerJerk!]

Wow, all the sudden we have a logical discussion going here.

It has been known to occur.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Did we ever get a determination on whether it was width or height?

I'm pretty sure they clarified that with the Mil dot reticle as used by the Corps.
Long length follows direction of reticle line.

See here:

 

[salks]

Anyone ever wonder why we still describe the accuracy of a rifle by saying 1 MOA or 1/2 MOA. Couldn't we say this rifle shoots .1 mil or .3 mils ?

 

[Mike Casselton]

Anyone ever wonder why we still describe the accuracy of a rifle by saying 1 MOA or 1/2 MOA. Couldn't we say this rifle shoots .1 mil or .3 mils ?

Cause people dick measure in inches.

Well, except for @8pointer

 

[RGStory]

And why do we have to use 27.7 boys and girls.. because it's metric

I disagree. We use 27.77, because that is the result of 1000 divided by 36. The number 1000 has nothing to do with meters. It is a reference to the milli prefix of the word milliradian. Milliradians is not exclusively metric. Its just a convenient angle. A result of mathematics.