How clean, is clean enough?

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Having a hard time getting my barrel clean even after a little brushing and several cleanings. I don't really care for the sake of being clean, but I am a little worried about the dreaded carbon ring. I am shooting win 6.5 stabal , and it's pretty dang dirty shooting powder. If I were getting my barrel clean each time I wouldn't worry about it but after inspecting my cleaning or lack there of with a borescope, I'm thinking I need to change my system a bit.

I'm afraid to use any of the abrasive stuff but I may have to if I actually want it clean. Frank's words about using the abrasive stuff like Iosso or something like it has made me not consider anything like that as an option....

Not sure where to go from here or even if I am getting it clean enough to prevent any carbon ring issues or similar issues. Had some weird pressure stuff that went on yesterday and it has me thinking about this. Could have just been the rain though....

I guess my question is "how do I know when it's clean enough" and "how can I get it cleaner without risking my barrel being messed up" ???

 

[Supersubes]

What kind of barrel is this, factory or custom? Nothing melts carbon like CLR. Soak a patch, scrub the throat, then patch it out. Carbon rings were pretty much never a thing until people started going nutty intervals between cleanings. If you’re not doing that, i wouldn't worry about it. Moisture in rhe chamber, including cleaning solvents, will cause higher bolt thrust, and can show pressure signs.

 

[just browsing]

If the barrel is still shooting well then don’t worry about how clean it is… shoot it until it doesn’t anymore.

 

[Steel head]

I usually just use wipe out.
Every 75-200ish shots, more frequently on my magnums especially those with solids versus less frequent with my 223 and 260.

If it’s shooting fine I’m cleaning enough, my 260 barrels look horrible by about 1500 rounds but still do well usually to 3000ish.

 

[Milf Dots]

I like her to be waxed clean, end to end. A thin little patch above the chamber is fine.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

If the barrel is still shooting well then don’t worry about how clean it is… shoot it until it doesn’t anymore.

That's what I normally do, but I'm still doing load development and so I'm not really sure if it's shooting well or not.... I don't want carbon build up to give me false pressure signs as I'm tuning or trying to tune it anyway...

 

[Lunchbox27]

You’re over thinking it.

Plug the chamber end with a silicone plug. Pour Bore Tec C4 down the muzzle end and let it sit for two hours.

Drain, un-plug, hit it with a nylon brush (esp in the the throat area). Patch until clean and you’re done. I usually do this on all my rifles every 200 rounds or so. I have gotten carbon rings before that wouldn’t let me even chamber a round…. Usually past 300 rounds.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

What kind of barrel is this, factory or custom? Nothing melts carbon like CLR. Soak a patch, scrub the throat, then patch it out. Carbon rings were pretty much never a thing until people started going nutty intervals between cleanings. If you’re not doing that, i wouldn't worry about it. Moisture in rhe chamber, including cleaning solvents, will cause higher bolt thrust, and can show pressure signs.

It's a proof 6.5cm . Could have had some moisture in the chamber just due to the amount of rain and mist ect... not a good time to do load development but I really have to take whatever opportunity I have or it won't happen at all. It happened after maybe 30-40 rounds so it's not from any oil or anything.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

Erik Cortina has a great chat about cleaning barrels on his YouTube channel.
CLR is good, just thoroughly clean it out afterwards.
Or some warm water and dishwashing liquid.
I field clean my rifle after each shoot, rag it before the next session.
My OCD won't let me sleep otherwise.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

You’re over thinking it.

Plug the chamber end with a silicone plug. Pour Bore Tec C4 down the muzzle end and let it sit for two hours.

Drain, un-plug, hit it with a nylon brush (esp in the the throat area). Patch until clean and you’re done. I usually do this on all my rifles every 200 rounds or so. I have gotten carbon rings before that wouldn’t let me even chamber a round…. Usually past 300 rounds.

No risk of pitting or anything with boretec I guess.... I didn't think anything like that would work since I've tried letting cleaner soak for 30-40 min, but it wasn't boretec c4 either.

 

[Lunchbox27]

Boretec is better than anything else I have tried, aside from CLR.

 

[Milf Dots]

Sweet's?

 

[Krob95]

CLR works the best. This is what I used for my old 6BR barrel. 300 rounds and it was hitting pressure hard. Soak for 30 min and scrub with a nylon brush focusing on the chamber. Patch out until dry.

Just be very careful because it will eat the nitride finish off a receiver. A little squirt bottle works great for filling a barrel to prevent an accidental mess.

 

[hafejd30]

I use bore tech eliminator

2 wet patches
Nylon brush 10 strokes
Let sit 10 minutes
1 wet patch
2 dry patches
1 patch butches gun oil
2 dry patches

 

[Supersubes]

Sweet's?

Sweets is a copper solvent only.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Boretec is better than anything else I have tried, aside from CLR.

I have pipets so, I'd be fine with plugging the barrel and filling it with clr, but not sure how I'd plug it 100% . Just don't want that stuff to get in my action.

 

[Krob95]

Cheap foam ear plugs man. Roll it in your fingers and stick it in the muzzle. Pipet in through the chamber and fill until you see it in the chamber. Let soak. Stick a container under the muzzle, pull plug, drain, patch out. Done. It's worked on everything from 22 cal to 30 cal for me.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Cheap foam ear plugs man. Roll it in your fingers and stick it in the muzzle. Pipet in through the chamber and fill until you see it in the chamber. Let soak. Stick a container under the muzzle, pull plug, drain, patch out. Done. It's worked on everything from 22 cal to 30 cal for me.

Not sure if I can get the earplugs in there through the muzzle break... might can

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Cheap foam ear plugs man. Roll it in your fingers and stick it in the muzzle. Pipet in through the chamber and fill until you see it in the chamber. Let soak. Stick a container under the muzzle, pull plug, drain, patch out. Done. It's worked on everything from 22 cal to 30 cal for me.

Might could shove one in a straw then feed it through the break and push it in the barrel.

Will it work ok if I just shove it in there or does it need to be rolled in between my fingers and round so it will seal up?

 

[Krob95]

didn't realize you had a brake on there man. If you can roll the whole thing up and quickly shove it in there it'll be fine.

If your brake is a black nitride finish, the CLR may turn it pink. So it may be worth just soaking a patch in CLR and letting it just sit in the chamber where it gets tight at the neck.

Just for a carbon ring though.

 

[Ledzep]

If the barrel is still shooting well then don’t worry about how clean it is… shoot it until it doesn’t anymore.

This is not good blanket advice. **IF you have a lapped, high quality barrel** In something like a .223, Grendel, 6mm ARC, .308, etc. this can be true, and typically have no harm associated.

In something like a 6.5 SAUM, 6.5 PRC, 6 Creedmoor, .243/.243 AI, really any juiced up L/A magnum, OR if you have a relatively rough-finished factory barrel, it can become dangerous in as little as 150-200 rounds.

Generally speaking, copper is less of a problem in the barrels this community is shooting. What becomes a problem is the slow burn rate for a given case volume powders, and especially overbore cartridges. That's where your carbon "rings" or fouling build up in general is going to become a problem the quickest.

There's no real cut and dry answer to the cleaning question, but IMO/IME you mainly want to target carbon build ups so that they're not causing boosts in velocity (pressure). The more rounds a barrel gets on it the less chance you're going to have of pushing out clean patches (ever). Boretech and Wipeout have good products that get both. Brush & soak 1-3 times and that's probably good enough. As barrels get long in the tooth, it can be beneficial some times to leave copper alone.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

didn't realize you had a brake on there man. If you can roll the whole thing up and quickly shove it in there it'll be fine.

If your brake is a black nitride finish, the CLR may turn it pink. So it may be worth just soaking a patch in CLR and letting it just sit in the chamber where it gets tight at the neck.

Just for a carbon ring though.

Yeah but I'd rather it be filled up. I tried using a ink pen tube to sort of load the ear plug in and slide the tube through the break, then push the plug out (compressed from the ink pen tube) and into the barrel. I got it in there some and I'm testing how well it holds with some Lucas cleaner I have. It drips a little but seems to work. I used a possum hollow bore guide to keep everything in my action clean so I think this will work.

How long do I let it soak though? Seems like damage could occur if I left it in there for hours?

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

This barrel is still fairly new. It's got maybe 600 is or so rounds on it. It's shows very little cracking if you look closely with a bore scope. If it's super clean it might even look new

 

[buckshotbarlow]

+1 on clr...that stuff eats up carbon like nothing else. I used it to clean an ar10 mb, and was amazed...It cleaned the carbon on the brake in 1hr where the other stuff took a week to get a tenth of it out.

Best way i can describe clr to carbon is peroxide for a zit...

 

[Krob95]

30min-1hr. The first time I did it though I let it soak for 2hr lol

 

[Gohring65]

I run hex boron on my bullets and clean 5-600 rounds if I feel like it.
I just run a bore snake thru the bore after each range trip, if I’m storing for over a month I put a fresh slurry of alcohol and hex to help coat the bore and displace any moisture.
Gunslick bore foam works extremely well on copper, and is safe for overnight soaks.

 

[Evintos]

What works for me is KG-1 Carbon remover, CLR - Calcium Lime Rust for the really stubborn carbon, and KG-12 copper remover. How do I determine whether or not a barrel is clean enough - I think of it in terms of estimated percentage and "crispness" and take into consideration barrel machining quality. Never experienced pressure issues and the results work well for me. Ultimately though, what is good enough is determined by your level of OCD and what side of the camp you fall under.

Example #1 - 95% condition. Less than 1% carbon remaining, very little copper remaining. Edges of lands and grooves crisp and well defined. I won't spend the time to remove 100% of the copper. Most of the remaining copper is on the edges.

Example #2 - 90% condition, edges of the lands and grooves are crisp and well defined. Very little carbon remaining, some copper remaining. Heavy deposits of copper and carbon removed. Some imperfections from machining but imperfections aren't large enough that I want more "fill".

Example #3 - 80-85% condition - this is a button rifled barrel. Note the amount of carbon and copper remaining. I leave some in there because I'm in the school of thought that barrels that shoot sub-moa but have machining imperfections should have some copper and carbon to fill the imperfections.
85%

80% - more carbon left behind than the 85%

Example #4 - 75% condition, obvious carbon and copper fouling; edges however still crisp and well defined. 120rds through, 1 dry patch through at the end of range day.

Unfortunately I don't have 50-65% pics because that's when the edges start to look "soft" and "blended" due to the build up of carbon and copper and those definitely get a heavy clean to bring it up to a 90-95% condition (even if they have many barrel imperfections). I try to maintain a 70-90% barrel condition.

CLR takes at most 15 minutes (wet patch left in bore on stubborn spot) for the stubborn spot.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

What works for me is KG-1 Carbon remover, CLR - Calcium Lime Rust for the really stubborn carbon, and KG-12 copper remover. How do I determine whether or not a barrel is clean enough - I think of it in terms of estimated percentage and "crispness" and take into consideration barrel machining quality. Never experienced pressure issues and the results work well for me. Ultimately though, what is good enough is determined by your level of OCD and what side of the camp you fall under.

Example #1 - 90% condition, edges of the lands and grooves are crisp and well defined. Very little carbon remaining, some copper remaining. Heavy deposits of copper and carbon removed. Some imperfections from machining but imperfections aren't large enough that I want more "fill".

View attachment 7759456

Example #2 - 95% condition. Less than 1% carbon remaining, very little copper remaining. Edges of lands and grooves crisp and well defined. I won't spend the time to remove 100% of the copper. Most of the remaining copper is on the edges. View attachment 7759454

Example #3 - 80-85% condition - this is a button rifled barrel. Note the amount of carbon and copper remaining. I leave some in there because I'm in the school of thought that barrels that shoot sub-moa but have machining imperfections should have some copper and carbon to fill the imperfections.

View attachment 7759462View attachment 7759463View attachment 7759464View attachment 7759465View attachment 7759466

Example #4 - 75% condition, obvious carbon and copper fouling; edges however still crisp and well defined. 120rds through, 1 dry patch through at the end of range day.
View attachment 7759469
View attachment 7759470
View attachment 7759471View attachment 7759472


Unfortunately I don't have 50-65% pics because that's when the edges start to look "soft" and "blended" due to the build up of carbon and copper and those definitely get a heavy clean to bring it up to a 90-95% condition (even if they have many barrel imperfections). I try to maintain a 70-90% barrel condition.

CLR takes at most 15 minutes (wet patch left in bore on stubborn spot) for the stubborn spot.

If I could get this barrel anywhere NEAR that clean I wouldn't be fooling with this. I have not ever had this kind of trouble cleaning a barrel.

 

[Evintos]

If I could get this barrel anywhere NEAR that clean I wouldn't be fooling with this. I have not ever had this kind of trouble cleaning a barrel.

I'm imagining a 50% condition or worse and probably have some hard carbon deposits, so I'll echo the CLR soak and cheap foam plug suggestions. Specifics below.

What I would do at that point - invert the rifle (muzzle down), shove a foam plug in muzzle, drip or pour CLR into the barrel. Let soak for about 15 minutes, remove plug and let it drain, plug it up again with cheap foam plug, fill with clean water, drain, repeat clean water flush 3 times, bronze brush for 10 passes (loosens any carbon that didn't fall off by itself), plug again with CLR fill for another 15 minutes, clean water flush 3 times, bronze brush again 10 passes, dry patches until the patches are dried. Inspect the bore with a borescope.

Every single time you pour the CLR into the bore and are waiting, just use a wet towel to wipe the action where you think CLR may have gotten on to (honestly I don't think it's necessary).

At that point, if there are still stubborn carbon deposits in certain areas remaining, put rifle horizontal, soak patch with CLR, bore guide, insert patch at the stubborn area, leave patch in there for 10 minutes. This usually gets rid of it. Clean wet water patch through.

After all that, KG-1 and KG-12 to remove remaining carbon and copper until I achieve a 90-95% condition. Finish with Breakfree CLP oil patch through and dry patch at the end to remove excess CLP or leave excess CLP in bore for storage. Remember to dry patch before use.

 

[rustyinbend]

Having a hard time getting my barrel clean even after a little brushing and several cleanings. I don't really care for the sake of being clean, but I am a little worried about the dreaded carbon ring. I am shooting win 6.5 stabal , and it's pretty dang dirty shooting powder. If I were getting my barrel clean each time I wouldn't worry about it but after inspecting my cleaning or lack there of with a borescope, I'm thinking I need to change my system a bit.

I'm afraid to use any of the abrasive stuff but I may have to if I actually want it clean. Frank's words about using the abrasive stuff like Iosso or something like it has made me not consider anything like that as an option....

Not sure where to go from here or even if I am getting it clean enough to prevent any carbon ring issues or similar issues. Had some weird pressure stuff that went on yesterday and it has me thinking about this. Could have just been the rain though....

I guess my question is "how do I know when it's clean enough" and "how can I get it cleaner without risking my barrel being messed up" ???

I wrestled with that until I got this stuff ...

Bore Tech C4 Carbon Remover Gun Cleaning Solvent 4oz Liquid

Bore Tech’s C4 Carbon Remover is a cutting-edge carbon cleaner that quickly and effectively removes heavy carbon fouling without...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

She's soaking now.... I over filled it a little but my possum hollow bore guide seal seams to be holding and not leaking. I am keeping the rifle vertical (muzzle down in trash can) while she soaks. I'm hoping it will drip out enough to get the clr level down to below the bore guide but I don't think that's likely if I let it soak for 20-30 min. I might can actually dump it out the bore guide but if not, going to have to figure out how to get that plug out without pushing it with a cleaning rod.....

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I got the clr out and rinsed with a little more clr. Then I rinsed it with a little hoppes and then did a few really wet patches with hoppes, and cleaned the chamber out. Then I patched it until they were coming out clean. Big improvement but not quite like some guys barrels I've seen or the 90% one posted itt. This is probably typical of how clean I normally get my barrels, though I don't know because this is the first one I've ever looked in with my borescope.

 

[Evintos]

I'd put that at a 80-85% condition and I would be happy with that. The carbon and copper mostly gone on the lands. The groove carbon is starting to clean up with some having been removed enough to expose the copper layer underneath. The fouling is mostly concentrated on the edges (hardest place to clean in my opinion).

If you really, really want to get to the 90+% condition, CLR soak more to remove the hard carbon as well as start the copper removal process. Some of the hard carbon that is embedded into the copper layer will be removed with the copper, provided that the copper solvent can penetrate the carbon layer. If the carbon layer is too thick, the copper solvent won't be able to penetrate and you'll have to attack it with a carbon remover again.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I'm pretty happy with this, I just didn't want to be doubting my groups and pressure signs and all while developing this load, because I couldn't get the barrel clean.


Thanks all for the help.

That ear plug really swelled up! Using that ink pen tube as a sleeve, to get the ear plug past the break was a handy little trick

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

More damage is done by cleaning than shooting it dirty. Getting a barrel down the new shine means you more likely did damage than anything. Knock the shit out every 5-600 rounds, run some patches of bore eliminator and let it sit for 10 minutes, run a nylon brush soaked about 15-20 times, run patches till they come out dry. Go shoot.

Borescopes mean nothing, all that matters is how the gun shoots. PRS level accuracy vs Setting world class F-class records. Shoot more clean less.

 

[Ledzep]

More damage is done Improper by cleaning than shooting it dirty. Getting a barrel down the new shine means you more likely did damage than anything. Knock the shit out every 5-600 rounds, run some patches of bore eliminator and let it sit for 10 minutes, run a nylon brush soaked about 15-20 times, run patches till they come out dry. Go shoot.

Borescopes mean nothing, all that matters is how the gun shoots. PRS level accuracy vs Setting world class F-class records. Shoot more clean less.

FIFY. Cleaning doesn't hurt anything if you're not a gorilla about it. I've seen tens of accuracy test barrels barrels that were cleaned with bronze wire brushes every 5-15 rounds their entire life and round count before dropping off was in exactly the same ballpark as my match barrels that get cleaned every 200-300 on average.

Again, the quoted post above is not good blanket advice. There are cartridges you can get away with it, there are cartridges you cannot. Shoot a 6.5 PRC 500-600 rounds without cleaning and tell me how your primer pockets are doing. The velocity increase over the first 150 rounds does not come for free-- it comes from increased pressure caused by the powder fouling. 6mm ARC, I've seen 1800 rounds without cleaning cause zero problems.

 

[carbonbased]

Frank of Bartlein barrels advice: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/carbon-ring-removal.7057856/page-2#post-9275488

Carbon ring removal

Youre not going to get a real answer to that question as there isnt really one because who really knows. Its just going to be a yes all of the above answer. Bore snakes dont do anything. Clean the carbon out and the copper if need be. Just clean it every few hundred instead of every many...

www.snipershide.com

Carbon ring removal

Youre not going to get a real answer to that question as there isnt really one because who really knows. Its just going to be a yes all of the above answer. Bore snakes dont do anything. Clean the carbon out and the copper if need be. Just clean it every few hundred instead of every many...

www.snipershide.com

There’s a bunch of good Frank’s posts on that thread on a variety of cleaning topics.

Vudoo on CLR:

Carbon ring removal

Youre not going to get a real answer to that question as there isnt really one because who really knows. Its just going to be a yes all of the above answer. Bore snakes dont do anything. Clean the carbon out and the copper if need be. Just clean it every few hundred instead of every many...

www.snipershide.com

 

[atepointer]

Having a hard time getting my barrel clean even after a little brushing and several cleanings. I don't really care for the sake of being clean, but I am a little worried about the dreaded carbon ring. I am shooting win 6.5 stabal , and it's pretty dang dirty shooting powder. If I were getting my barrel clean each time I wouldn't worry about it but after inspecting my cleaning or lack there of with a borescope, I'm thinking I need to change my system a bit.

I'm afraid to use any of the abrasive stuff but I may have to if I actually want it clean. Frank's words about using the abrasive stuff like Iosso or something like it has made me not consider anything like that as an option....

Not sure where to go from here or even if I am getting it clean enough to prevent any carbon ring issues or similar issues. Had some weird pressure stuff that went on yesterday and it has me thinking about this. Could have just been the rain though....

I guess my question is "how do I know when it's clean enough" and "how can I get it cleaner without risking my barrel being messed up" ???

I have ~ 2,200 rounds through my Proof pre-fit 6.5 with stayballz. I clean it about every 300 rounds which happens to be monthly not so much b/c I think it needs it, but I take my suppressor off to clean my muzzle brake a bit so figure may as well while I'm at it. It still shoots like a mofo never had a carbon ring or anything other than me causing my misses.....once you get your load tuned in I wouldn't be afraid to just let it run and shoot it. I think the most I've gone is 400 and it was still a laser just did it because I know my Cherry Bomb will get pretty caked at that point.

 

[Pharmseller]

Wipe-Out foaming bore cleaner.

Clean enough.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I have ~ 2,200 rounds through my Proof pre-fit 6.5 with stayballz. I clean it about every 300 rounds which happens to be monthly not so much b/c I think it needs it, but I take my suppressor off to clean my muzzle brake a bit so figure may as well while I'm at it. It still shoots like a mofo never had a carbon ring or anything other than me causing my misses.....once you get your load tuned in I wouldn't be afraid to just let it run and shoot it. I think the most I've gone is 400 and it was still a laser just did it because I know my Cherry Bomb will get pretty caked at that point.

Yeah, if I knew where I was with the load a little better I wouldn't have bothered with it. I also bought it used and I don't think it was cleaned before I got it. After I had some pressure signs all of the sudden, it made me concerned about it possibly having a carbon ring, and then I wasn't able to get it clean in the same way that I normally do with my other barrels

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Wipe-Out foaming bore cleaner.

Clean enough.

I had been using the foaming bore cleaner and it worked really well for my other barrels. I think this one must have just not been cleaned or not cleaned well for a while and developed a thicker carbon coat in it. I'm pretty happy with the cleaning now and I won't have to wonder about my test loads not being accurate because of over fouling. I will be using that clr trick again. It saved a lot of time and was very easy to do now that I know how to plug the barrel.

 

[rustyinbend]

I struggled getting a clean patch with several cleaning products. Then someone recommended Bore Tech C4 Carbon Remover, and that struggle is over. 3 wets, wait, brush, 3 wets, 3-5 drys ... and usually done. I'm a fan-boy based on my results. I even used it on a removed barrel to kill a really bad carbon ring and fouling ... soaked overnight and the barrel came back to life.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I struggled getting a clean patch with several cleaning products. Then someone recommended Bore Tech C4 Carbon Remover, and that struggle is over. 3 wets, wait, brush, 3 wets, 3-5 drys ... and usually done. I'm a fan-boy based on my results. I even used it on a removed barrel to kill a really bad carbon ring and fouling ... soaked overnight and the barrel came back to life.

Where is the best place to buy it? I tried Amazon so I could use points to buy it but the only one they don't show is the dang C4. They have the others...

 

[rustyinbend]

Where is the best place to buy it? I tried Amazon so I could use points to buy it but the only one they don't show is the dang C4. They have the others...

Bore Tech C4 Carbon Remover

Bore Tech C4 Carbon Remover Bore Tech's C 4 Carbon Remover is a cutting edge carbon cleaner that quickly and effectively removes heavy carbon fouling without the hazards, toxicity, and odors typically found in competitive cleaners. C 4 CARBON REMOVER IS 100%...

www.creedmoorsports.com

 

[rustyinbend]

It's usually in stock. I just bought two of the large bottles.

 

[308pirate]

Just be very careful because it will eat the nitride finish off a receiver.

No it won't. It will damage the pretty black color from the oxide QPQ, but the nitride case is still there.

 

[Krob95]

No it won't. It will damage the pretty black color from the oxide QPQ, but the nitride case is still there.

Yeah either way. It'll be pink lol

 

[JAS-SH]

More damage is done by cleaning than shooting it dirty. Getting a barrel down the new shine means you more likely did damage than anything. Knock the shit out every 5-600 rounds, run some patches of bore eliminator and let it sit for 10 minutes, run a nylon brush soaked about 15-20 times, run patches till they come out dry. Go shoot.

Borescopes mean nothing, all that matters is how the gun shoots. PRS level accuracy vs Setting world class F-class records. Shoot more clean less.

That might be true of yesterday's steel barrels that were 1 MOA+ at best to begin with and no one had taken the time to see what's really going on inside a barrel. Those days are long gone. In this day and age your post is wrong on so many levels that it's instant bad advice.

A good custom and expensive, lapped barrel shoots its best, with heavy cleaning, even with abrasives, at around 200 rounds and keeps that accuracy, with pretty heavy cleaning a hell of a lot longer that if it is rarely or never cleaned. Forget copper. the enemy is heat, pressure and carbon. Carbon, as in carbon fiber and diamonds. Carbon is very hard. Enemy #1 of rifle barrels.

The more carbon buildup, especially where it builds up - at the beginning of the rifling, the more pressure builds up, then more heat, then copper has a rough carbon surface to stick to.

Heat and pressure are the things that kill a barrel. And a lot quicker than cleaning does.

 

[Baron23]

Frank of Bartlein barrels advice: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/carbon-ring-removal.7057856/page-2#post-9275488

Carbon ring removal

Youre not going to get a real answer to that question as there isnt really one because who really knows. Its just going to be a yes all of the above answer. Bore snakes dont do anything. Clean the carbon out and the copper if need be. Just clean it every few hundred instead of every many...

www.snipershide.com

Carbon ring removal

Youre not going to get a real answer to that question as there isnt really one because who really knows. Its just going to be a yes all of the above answer. Bore snakes dont do anything. Clean the carbon out and the copper if need be. Just clean it every few hundred instead of every many...

www.snipershide.com

There’s a bunch of good Frank’s posts on that thread on a variety of cleaning topics.

Vudoo on CLR:

Carbon ring removal

Youre not going to get a real answer to that question as there isnt really one because who really knows. Its just going to be a yes all of the above answer. Bore snakes dont do anything. Clean the carbon out and the copper if need be. Just clean it every few hundred instead of every many...

www.snipershide.com

Yeah, I have watched the Vudoo vid before and enjoyed it. I do use Bore Tech and did some testing with copper pennies and diff copper removers and I'm sticking with Bore Tech. Worked the best in my estimation.

Just past where he says do not use CLR, he talks about steel tornado brushes. My jaw dropped as I couldn't imagine anyone thinking this is a proper brush for a rifled barrel. I do use them on 12 ga shotgun barrels and they work wonderfully but there is obviously no rifling to chew up and what the heck...its a proximity weapon.

 

[carbonbased]

Just past where he says do not use CLR, he talks about steel tornado brushes. My jaw dropped as I couldn't imagine anyone thinking this is a proper brush for a rifled barrel. I do use them on 12 ga shotgun barrels and they work wonderfully but there is obviously no rifling to chew up and what the heck...its a proximity weapon.

Watch that part again. He says the SS tornado brush is "the worst thing to ever happen to firearms cleaning…the most barrel unfriendly device ever devised for cleaning…don't use those." Here's a direct link to that part in the video.