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Fieldcraft Krieger_tactics: LONG RANGE PRECISION MARKSMANSHIP - Part 3 HOLDING FROM 100 TO 1000 YARDS

As a newer shooter or marksman, is this series meeting your expecations and desires?

  • No. This series is too basic.

    Votes: 15 34.9%
  • No. As there are newer and more efficient scope and reticle systems, your information is outdated.

    Votes: 28 65.1%
  • Yes.

    Votes: 8 18.6%
  • Yes. I use either a MIL dot or Duplex style reticle.

    Votes: 2 4.7%
  • Yes. I am a newer shooter and the information that is provided in this series is very helpful.

    Votes: 6 14.0%

  • Total voters
    43

Krieger_Tactics

Rip Van WInkle
Full Member
Minuteman
LONG RANGE MARKSMANSHIP - PART 3:

READJUSTING THE POINT OF AIM AND POINT OF IMPACT TO 500 YARDS


My call sign is Krieger. I am a former Special Forces Soldier (7th Special Forces Group, Ft. Bragg, NC), and security contractor.


SERIES
This is Part 3 of a series titled: Long Range Precision Marksmanship.

Some of the information contained in this post refers to Part 1 and or Part 2 of this series. In order to reference parts 1 and 2 you may find them here:
-https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/krieger_tactics-long-range-marksmanship-part-1.7106280/

-https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/krieger_tactics-long-range-precision-marksmanship-part-2-introduction-to-holding.7106361/

RELEVANCE OF THE MIL DOT RETICLE AND THUS THIS SERIES
The MIL dot reticle system can be used for various actions, to include estimating range to a target and holding (adjusting your point of aim off of the desired impact point of a target) in order to compensate for the external ballistic effect of the wind, etc., on a fired round while it is in flight.

If you are a tactical, long range precision marksman or hunter, the ability to effectively and rapidly engage targets at multiple distances could prove to be critical in your ability to defend yourself or others, win a competition, provide food for your family or others.


---------------------------------


ADJUSTING FOR ENVIRONMENTAL FACTORS

While a fired round is in flight, winds, range and other factors can and do affect the round's path. In order to compensate for this affect on the round's path, a marksman may calculate the deviation upon the fired round caused by the environmental factors and then "dial on" the adjustments utilizing the windage and elevation knobs.

A marksman may also calculate how much he or she may need to hold (aim) off of the desired point of impact in order to allow the round to be brought back onto the target. Aiming off or "holding" as it is know is generally accomplished by applying the appropriate number of MILs in the scope's reticle in order to allow the bullet to fall and or be blown back onto the target.

HOLDING BASED ON A 100 YARD ZERO
For these calculations I will be using example data. To note, your data may (will probably) be a little bit different than that provided. The point here is to understand the process of holding in order to engage targets at range, given a 100 yard zero.

EXAMPLE YARDLINE HOLD IN MILS
YARDS
/ HOLD IN MILS
100 / --
200 / 0.5
300 / 1.5
400 / 2.5
500 / 3.5
600 / 4.7
700 / 6.1
800 / 7.7
900 / 9.4
1000 / 10.4


APPLICATION
The application of this data would be thus: The rifle is zero’d at 100 yards. A target (as so deemed) presents itself at 400 yards. There are no winds to be calculated. The “hold” in MILs to engage a 400 yard target (with a 100 yard zero) is 2.5 MILs.

In order to engage a center mass or point of desired impact hit, the marksman would then “hold” (raise) the center cross-hair 2.5 MILs above the desired point of impact

400 yard 2.5 MIL hold.JPG


NOT ENOUGH MILS AVAILABLE
Since there are only 5 measurable MILs from the center line to the thick black bar at either end of the cross-hairs of the reticle this process can be utilized to engage a target that is 600 yards away or less as any target farther away than 600 yards requires a hold of more than 5 MILs.


5 MILs AVAILABLE.JPG


ADJUST FOR THIS SHORTCOMING
In order to compensate for this shortcoming:

1. READJUST the dialed on range to 500 yards. 500 yards then becomes the Point of Aim / Point of Impact.

2. RECALCULATE the holds in MILs from:
A. 500 yards to 100 yards
B. 500 yards to 1000 yards

Example holds with a DIALED ON RANGE of 500 yards.
YARDS / MIL HOLDS

100 / 3.4 UNDER
200 / 2.7 UNDER
300 / 1.9 UNDER
400 / 1.0 UNDER
500 / POA/POI
600 / 1.1 OVER
700 / 2.3 OVER
800 / 3.7 OVER
900 / 5.2 OVER
1000 / 6.8 OVER

EXAMPLE
The marksman sees two targets.
The first target appears at a range of 200 yards away.
The second target appears at 800 yards away.
The marksman desires to engage BOTH targets.

Using the data above the marksman, in order to engage the target at 200 yards would “hold” 2.7 MILs UNDER the desired point of impact and engage the target:
HOLDING AT 200 YARDS.JPG


Then, in order to engage the target at 800 yards away, the marksman would hold at 3.7 MILs OVER the desired point of impact on the 2nd target:
HOLDING AT 800 YARDS.JPG


TAKE-AWAY
The ability to rapidly engage targets from 100 yards out to 1000 yards could be important in your long range precision marksmanship ability. While “dialing on” the elevation (range) change is a possible solution, this process also introduces issues such as loss of battlefield situational awareness, etc. These issues are easily remedied by simply readjusting the POA/POI to 500 yards and then “holding” the requisite number of MILs.

Would I advocate this process everyone? No, I would not. I would advocate that if you need to fire one or multiple rounds and you have a limited time to engage an exposed target or targets, it might be a technique that could prove favorable


FUTURE POST
You may find yourself in a situation where you want to engage a target using a hold, but the available MILs in your scope do not allow allow for this. I'll show you a method that you might be able to emloy in order to address this situation.


-Krieger


#greenberet, #longrangemarksmanship #remington #longrangeshooting #M24sws #M118 #sniper #precisionmarksmanship #precisionshooting #DDM #specialforces #specialoperations
 

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When I read this I think of the old USMC Unertl 10X scope. It was a primitive tool with those big mil dots but darned effective for field use on larger targets. Very simple to use.
 
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Even in the last 20 years, many sharpshooters in the military have started on a 10 power fixed scope.
 
I’m onboard. Few things I’ve always had questions on and no one seems to explain well, if at all….

- mildot master. What is it and how does it work?

- ranging with reticle. As many examples as possible

- coriolis. What is it and is it why I seem to miss off the right so much at 600+ yds when shooting north?

- effect of cant at practical ranges (inside 1k or so)


Also, many of us, myself included, learn much better with video. So much easier to soak up. Would love to see you providing some video on this. Would likely help your training business too.

Also, call signs would be pretty damn cool. Always wanted to do something mil/LE related. Just never had the guts to sign up for it.
 
This is like austin powers 🤣

I bet this guy take a long piss after sleeping for 30 years...
 
Hi, @Krieger_Tactics!

Great write up and examples, very helpful! I agree with some of the posters above that a video would be very helpful as many people learn and absorb knowledge better visually.

My long range sniper scope has a MIL-DOT reticle just like the one in your examples (I like it and it is really great at 1000 yards).
I have a question about the differences in dialing turrets and their markings? As I said, my sniper scope has a MIL-DOT reticle, but on the dialing turrets is printed MOA? One of your examples states POA / POI?

Am I missing something?
Will my sniper scope reticle work the same as in your example?

MIL
MOA
N
O
POA
POI

Thank you!
 
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Thats why you only got
5 mils of bro dots
you can use
for elevation...

🙈😆🔥
 
Hi, @Krieger_Tactics!

Great write up and examples, very helpful! I agree with some of the posters above that a video would be very helpful as many people learn and absorb knowledge better visually.

My long range sniper scope has a MIL-DOT reticle just like the one in your examples (I like it and it is really great at 1000 yards).
I have a question about the differences in dialing turrets and their markings? As I said, my sniper scope has a MIL-DOT reticle, but on the dialing turrets is printed MOA? One of your examples states POA / POI?

Am I missing something?
Will my sniper scope reticle work the same as in your example?

MIL
MOA
N
O
POA
POI

Thank you!

Hello Smooth1,

First and foremost, thank you for replying to this series, for your suggestion re the video and for the accolades. I am grateful.

I am a visual learner. Didactic, academia is not my strong point. A video would certainly be the way to go. As I haven't been able to do a video I try to include photograpsh in order to visually demonstrate the points that I am making. But photographs only go so far. I will work on accomplishing this... It might be a few months however before I am able to do this.

MIL RETICLES AND MOA DIALING
Your question is probably going to be the basis for Part 4! There's a LOT to be addressed here.

First off, Yes, your scope and its reticle and the MOA dialing can be used. In the example that I provided, it was MIL dot and MOA adjustments. You will potentially just have to do some math.

However for now, lets look at one situation:

Adjusting using the reference point of the impact of a round.

Range: 700 Yards
Desired point of impact: Center mass
You fire the first round. and it strikes right of center mass of the target.
While keeping the crosshairs focused on the center of the target, you make a mental note of where the impact is on the target.
You then slide or move this part of the reticle onto the center of the target.
See the examples:

First round fired strikes right of center.
Note where on the reticle the impact occurred.
3 3.png


You then slide or move this part of the reticle onto the center of the target.
2.png


Is it this simple? Sometimes, but not always. Windage is easier to do this with than Elevation. Impacts on target or a backer are easier to do this with than trying to use impacts on the ground or reading trace. But it can be done.

Again, this is super best case scenario.

It would get more difficult if you had a spotter who is reading in MOA and then you are holding because the spotter or you would have to convert the deviation of the round's impact from MOA to MIL, and THEN you would hold in MILs.

Again.. that's a whole other Part # to this series... But it can be done... and the more you do it the easier it gets. Send me a DM with the subject ADJUSTING MOA TO MIL and when I post this I will DM you back and let you know that it's up.


POA / POI
You were not missing anything. I just need to do a better job at explaining myself. My apology.
POA stands for "point of aim"
POI stands for "point of impact"

Generally marksmen aim at the point that they desire that the bullet impacts. This is known (as I'm sure you already know) as point of aim/point of impact

In holding you aim at one point and desire that the bullet strikes a different point. This is point of aim, but not point of impact.

SUMMARY
The scope that I used for the examples in this post is the same setup as yours: MIL dot reticle, MOA adjustments. We'll get more into making adjustments and such.

Thank you for taking the time to respond. Don't hesitate to reach out!

and You're welcome!

-Krieger
 
I’m onboard. Few things I’ve always had questions on and no one seems to explain well, if at all….

- mildot master. What is it and how does it work?

- ranging with reticle. As many examples as possible

- coriolis. What is it and is it why I seem to miss off the right so much at 600+ yds when shooting north?

- effect of cant at practical ranges (inside 1k or so)


Also, many of us, myself included, learn much better with video. So much easier to soak up. Would love to see you providing some video on this. Would likely help your training business too.

Also, call signs would be pretty damn cool. Always wanted to do something mil/LE related. Just never had the guts to sign up for it.


Hello Feniks Technologies!

Thank you for commenting and for your queries.

As I shared with Smooth1, each of your questions and requests for information are great... Each one is probably a "Part" in and of itself!

I agree with both you and Smooth1 and others... video is an extremely effective method to share information. This is something that I will work on accomplishing.

If you would DM me with the subjects that you want covered I will do my best to get them covered in a Part of this series. There are probably many people who are looking for the same information as you are and would benefit from seeing it in a post as opposed to potentially missing it in a response.

MILDOT MASTER
I used the MILDOT Master years ago. This is a piece of equipment that was designed to do the following (https://www.amazon.com/Mildot-Enterprises-Master/dp/B008WTWKEA):
  • Conversion of estimated target size from inches into decimal equivalent of yards is necessary, as the Target Size Scale is in increments of feet and inches.
  • No entry of data or operations through a keypad is necessary, as the device is purely analog and only requires the alignment of figures on scales.
  • No memorization of formulae is necessary, as the correct formulae are built into the scales.
  • No complex calculations for determination of telescopic sight adjustment or hold-over at various ranges are necessary, as the scales of the device convert drop/drift figures directly into both MOA and mils.
  • No separate data sheet is necessary for bullet drop figures, as the reverse side of the device is designed to accommodate either commercially available data decals or user-produced data strips.
However, due to the differences in grain weight of a round, barometric pressure, temperature, wind and its changes etc, I have never found any piece of equipment that was able to predict what would occur to the round that I was firing more accurately than my data book and my calculations at the time.

Does the MILDOT Master provide a lot of great info? Yes. Perhaps I'll post on it in this series.

What is the ultimate in available information in my opinion? It is the marksmen's data book.

CALL SIGNS
Call signs are pretty cool. There are some fun ones and some serious ones... There are some that you get when you REALLY mess something up... :) There are some that you get when you really do something good too!

MIL/LE
I enjoyed my MIL time. I was never LE. In the end everyone plays a part in the success or failure of a nation no matte what profession we have. I admire you for having the bravery to write in and share your desire to learn about certain topics. In my opinion this takes a lot of guts. If you've been following my posts, there are a lot of individuals who will try to tear you apart for posting anything, whether you are right, wrong, genuine, unlearned or otherwise.

I wish you the best in your desire to become a better marksman. I will try to get some posts out re the subjects that you mentioned and some videos too.

-Krieger
 
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@Krieger_Tactics

I think this would all go better if you gave everyone call signs that we could start referring to each other as. I get confused by whose posting, so I think a call sign would help with that.

I obviously know absolutely nothing about anything special operations related, but I do know call signs are cool.

Hello TheGerman!

Call signs are super cool! I think we were discussing your call sign a bit ago but I can't find the replies... Help me out!

-Krieger
 
Is this the book you use as a reference for your posts? View attachment 7788659

Hello JMGlascow,

The books that I use for reference are the Sniper data logs and note books that I have. The information that I post come from those and from my personal experiences.

However, I DO have the book that you're referencing. I have the much older version though and it is a GREAT reference for long range precision marksmanship. At some point I suspect that I will probably be referencing the information in the Ultimate Sniper book. When I reference something other than my data books I post the website from which I attained the information. When I reference the Ultimate Sniper book I will do the same. Give Credit Where Credit Is Due, someone once told me.

BTW, if that is the book that you are using, you are definitely on the right track!

-Krieger
 
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Is this still available?

Hey @Krieger_Tactics how does a MILDOT master thing work?

Also, what are your thoughts on smoked sausages and being a landscaper as a profession?

If you are referencing the book, The Ultimate Sniper as being available, I don't know. Mine was purchased in 2004. I would suspect it's still available.

I loved smoked sausages... I think they may be a really close second to the Leupold series of scopes... and I'm actually looking at doing some landscaping myself. I just got a box blade and some accessories and I've been watching some youtube videos on how to get rocks out of a hay field. I never realized that rocks can destroy your equipment.

I respect all professions. The big machine of life doesn't run well if we are missing any part of it.

MILDOT MASTER
I referenced this in Smooth1's reply... Bottom line is that all the information that should be in your head is written down on a card that has a sliding scale for various information. Instead of trying to remember everything (which is impossible for me), you slide a scale based on observable data and the MILDOT Master provides you with the data that you are looking for. Very vague response, I know. I used it once a long time ago. It was neato. Then I lost it. I always use my data books, my notes, my calcs in my brain, and cards that I made.

I may order one and do a legit post on it. That'll be a while though. If you DM me with MILDOT Master in the subject line, when I post on this subject I'll DM you and let you know that I've posted.

-Krieger
 
As for “Sniper” books, this one is a favorite of mine. I also know of a way to contact the author if I had any questions or needed clarification, but I did not have any. Chapter 8 is right up your alley with this Marksmanship series you are posting.
image.jpg
 
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If you are referencing the book, The Ultimate Sniper as being available, I don't know. Mine was purchased in 2004. I would suspect it's still available.

I loved smoked sausages... I think they may be a really close second to the Leupold series of scopes... and I'm actually looking at doing some landscaping myself. I just got a box blade and some accessories and I've been watching some youtube videos on how to get rocks out of a hay field. I never realized that rocks can destroy your equipment.

I respect all professions. The big machine of life doesn't run well if we are missing any part of it.

MILDOT MASTER
I referenced this in Smooth1's reply... Bottom line is that all the information that should be in your head is written down on a card that has a sliding scale for various information. Instead of trying to remember everything (which is impossible for me), you slide a scale based on observable data and the MILDOT Master provides you with the data that you are looking for. Very vague response, I know. I used it once a long time ago. It was neato. Then I lost it. I always use my data books, my notes, my calcs in my brain, and cards that I made.

I may order one and do a legit post on it. That'll be a while though. If you DM me with MILDOT Master in the subject line, when I post on this subject I'll DM you and let you know that I've posted.

-Krieger
speechless-dumbfounded.gif
 
3BDD113C-E314-470D-8B54-5B6941BB60D6.jpeg

This thread^

Came expecting soo much. Left with a bad taste in my mouth.


What kind of beer is poured in a midget glass.
 
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As for “Sniper” books, this one is a favorite of mine. I also know of a way to contact the author if I had any questions or needed clarification, but I did not have any. Chapter 8 is right up your alley with this Marksmanship series you are posting.
View attachment 7789035

That book was a little, uh, short, for me.
 
Say what you will this guy has not flinched. I love his stick to itevness. yes thats a word.
Kreiger you're ok in my book. Speaking of which I have that book bought it in 94 I believe, when I also bought a Leopold with that reticle lulz.
Still have the scope just put it on my 30-06. Of course we are talking 28 years ago I was new to long range shooting and at the time this was the shiznit (as far as I knew).
 
@Krieger_Tactics

I think this would all go better if you gave everyone call signs that we could start referring to each other as. I get confused by whose posting, so I think a call sign would help with that.

I obviously know absolutely nothing about anything special operations related, but I do know call signs are cool.
I call dibs on Mister A-Hole for a call sign.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Fig
-Deersniper
I'm actually looking at doing some landscaping myself. I just got a box blade and some accessories and I've been watching some youtube videos on how to get rocks out of a hay field. I never realized that rocks can destroy your equipment.

-Deersniper

Dooood- I knew it was you the minute you talked about destroying equipment.

I knew it.