Krieger_Tactics: Long Range Precision Marksmanship - Part 2: INTRODUCTION TO HOLDING

Krieger_Tactics

Rip Van WInkle
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Krieger_Tactics:

Long Range Precision Marksmanship - Part 2

INTRODUCTION TO “HOLDING”

MY BACKGROUND

My call sign is Krieger. I am a former Special Forces Soldier (7th Special Forces Group, Ft. Bragg, NC), former security contractor , former instructor (Department of State), and current Unconventional Asset Recovery Agent.

I provide this information in the hope that it will provide a means for a marksman who is looking to improve his or her level of marksmanship and ability.

WRITTEN FOR
While advanced scopes and reticles exist, there are some personnel who still utilize the MIL dot system. This post has been written for this demographic of marksman.

POINTS OF INFORMATION
This post is written from a general assumption that anything not covered in-depth is understood by the reader. Over time I will be returning to this post and explaining many of the points that I don't cover in depth in the next two posts. If you have any questions, if there is something that I don't cover well, if I need to clarify a point or any point, please do not hesitate to reach out and ask for clarification on this thread, or DM me directly.


USE OF MIL DOTS
MIL dot reticles can be utilized to measure objects, estimate range, measure for corrections of round impacts, etc. For those who may not be familiar with the MIL dot reticle, there is one depicted in the first slide attached to this post.

FACTORS TO BE ACCOUNTED FOR IN LONG RANGE PRECISION MARKSMANSHIP
Before a marksman takes a long-range precision shot, there are several factors that need to be accounted for. For now, we’ll only address two of these factors: Windage and Elevation.

WINDAGE AND ELEVATION
-Windage is the calculated effect (left or right of the center of the target) that the marksman projects that the wind and various other factors will have on the fired round during flight.
-Elevation is the calculated deviation that the round will strike above or below the center of the target based on distance from the marksman to the target.

CALCULATING ADJUSTMENTS
The effects of windage and elevation will cause the strike of the round to deviate from center mass of the target. The marksman calculates the adjustments that need to be applied in order to bring the strike of the round back to center of the target.
There are multiple ways to make this adjustment/correction.
I will be discussing one of them; Holds for elevation.

HOLDS
Once the marksman has determined the distance to the target the marksman can utilize the Data On Previous Engagements (DOPE) that has been gathered and recorded in the marksman (sniper in military terms) log book in order to identify the MILs that must be “held” off of the center cross-hair in order to allow/bring the bullet onto the center of the target.

An example of this process is captured below in writing and in the visual aids attached to this post.
Based on a example .308 175-gr trajectory for the M118 (which I used many years ago) a marksman would apply the following MIL holds for a 100 yard zero (https://www.snipershide.com/.../specifications-for.../)

METERS: 100 MIL HOLD: 0.0 point of aim/point of impact
METERS: 200 MIL HOLD: 0.5 higher than center mass/ desired strike of the round
METERS: 300 MIL HOLD: 1.5 higher than center mass/ desired strike of the round
METERS: 400 MIL HOLD: 1.95 higher than center mass/ desired strike of the round
METERS: 500 MIL HOLD: 2.9 higher than center mass/ desired strike of the round

VISUAL EXAMPLES
Slides 2-6 provide a visual graphic of the "holds" as noted above. The center of each target is identified, as well as the location of the cross-hair as it is being held in order to demonstrate visually how each subsequent range necesitates a "higher" hold. These graphics provide you with the ability to note and understand the "holding" process described above.

To note, I created these graphics utilzing powerpoint and thus they are not 100% to scale, however I feel that they are close enough to accomplish the intent here - which is to provide the reader with the ability to visually identify the holding for elevation (range) process.

ALWAYS TRUE?
The provided calculations (holds) are not true for every instance using M118, nor for every M24 sniper weapon system, nor every caliber, nor even every instance using M118.

In fact, there are several factors that influence the hold that a marksman would need to apply. In order to know your "hold" you would have to engage a target at each range and note that in your shooter's log book.

I simply provide this information as a Segway to an introduction to “holds” and to assist in facilitating the understanding of the process.

We will utilize this information in the next post when I discuss reestablishing zero at 500 meters and why a military sniper or tactical competition marksman would do so.

TAKE AWAY
For those who wish to utilize the MIL dot reticle system, being familiar with calculating and applying holds can be an extremely efficient method to engage targets at distances. As we continue to work together in this series of posts I hope to provide you with the means to do so efficiently and effectively.


-Krieger_Tactics



MIL dot reticle system:

MIL Dot Reticle.png



4 2.jpg


1 4.jpg


3.jpg

5.jpg

2 2.jpg
 
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Krieger_Tactics

Rip Van WInkle
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Good morning Trigger Monkey,

I see that you live in Winchester, VA. I was in Winchester several years ago. There was a long distance range in the mountains there that I frequented. I forget the name of it. It's been some time.

As you've been a member of this form for some 16 years +, I would assume that you know just about everything that there is to know about MIL dots. With this in mind, what exactly would you like me to expound upon?

-Krieger
 

TxWelder35

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    Hi Krieger,

    What are you preferred methods for gathering dope on further targets once you have acquired the 7 yard zero?

    Will you have a post on wind? It seems super tricky sometimes to get a wind hold correct.
     

    Trigger Monkey

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  • Apr 29, 2005
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    I'm not going to say I know everything about mil dots, if there's one thing I've learned about life it's that a long time spent doing something doesn't equate to competence at said endeavor.

    That being said, the information above is nothing new. Is it wrong? Not really, but it's super basic and most members here are well past that, not to mention working with things like weaponized math, speed drop factor, and gun mph wind. With a background as enriched as yours why talk about a mildot reticle? Especially when most manufacturers and the military has pretty much phased it out.
     

    armorpl8chikn

    Colonel Angus
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    Aug 17, 2010
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    Mil dots?
    Did you get this info out of a crackerjack box?
    500m zero? Whole Lotta holdunders there.
    Why not 300yd zero? When I was shooting DMM, this is what I was using.
    Why not 1000yd zero?

    Is anyone using mildots anymore?
    I haven't used a mil dot in a decade....and I was behind the times even then.

    There. You have my thoughts.
    Your initials wouldn't be LC would they?
     
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    Krieger_Tactics

    Rip Van WInkle
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    Hi Krieger,

    What are you preferred methods for gathering dope on further targets once you have acquired the 7 yard zero?

    Will you have a post on wind? It seems super tricky sometimes to get a wind hold correct.

    Good morning TxWelder35

    Your question requires a LOT of information to be answered. And I will answer it. This response will be a bit short as I have already planned in depth posts dealing with winds and mirages and adjustments. For now though, here we go:

    STARTING POINT
    The 7-yard zero is really just a starting point. It lets me see where the rounds are impacting and make an initial adjustment. From there I then go to the 50, repeat the process and then to the 100 yard line and zero there.

    For each subsequent yard line thereon (200, 300, 400, 500, etc), I fire at that particular yard line in order to gather my DOPE.

    To note, the gathering of DOPE never ends. In just a few weeks of shooting I have had to remove sheets from my book and store them because the atmospheric conditions were changing. I've deployed and the atmospheric conditions were completely different, thus mandating the process to start again.


    READING WINDS
    Winds are super tricky. There is a range here in Texas named
    Tiger Valley. In 2012 I attended a course there. From the 900 to about the 500 yard line the winds blow one direction. From 500 to 300 they typically blow a different direction. From 200 to the 0 yard line they blow a different direction again.

    This phenomenon was created by my instructor at the time when they designed the range. When they built the range they made a huge mound that covers a span of some 200 yards. This mound is to the South of the range if I remember correctly. The winds hit this mound then go over it, and to either side of it. I have watched the grass blades bend different directions. There is also a semi-seasonal creek in the middle of the range. This area creates a low pressure area right in the center of the range and further wreaks havoc on the conditions, reading the winds and calculating the anticipated deviation of the round.

    Due to the difficulty in calculating winds on this range, I utilized a very simple method for calculating the winds. I'll share that TTP in a later post

    As well, in later posts I will be discussing the following: (1) how to read winds, (2) how to calculate their effects on the round in flight, (3) how to deal with winds that are opposing in nature.

    Thank you for your question. It's a tough situation to deal with. We'll be looking at this more in depth.

    If I didn't answer your question to the extent desired, let me know and we'll continue to dig in.


    TAKE AWAY

    Gathering DOPE (winds, elevation effects etc.) never ends and for the most effective calculations this information must be gathered at each yard line.



    -Krieger
     
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    TxWelder35

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    Good morning TxWelder35

    Your question requires a LOT of information to be answered. And I will answer it. This response will be a bit short as I have already planned in depth posts dealing with winds and mirages and adjustments. For now though, here we go:


    STARTING POINT
    The 7-yard zero is really just a starting point. It lets me see where the rounds are impacting and make an initial adjustment. From there I then go to the 50, repeat the process and then to the 100 yard line and zero there.

    For each subsequent yard line thereon (200, 300, 400, 500, etc), I fire at that particular yard line in order to gather my DOPE.

    To note, the gathering of DOPE never ends. In just a few weeks of shooting I have had to remove sheets from my book and store them because the atmospheric conditions were changing. I've deployed and the atmospheric conditions were completely different, thus mandating the process to start again.


    READING WINDS
    Winds are super tricky. There is a range here in Texas named Tiger Valley. In 2012 I attended a course there. From the 900 to about the 500 yard line the winds blow one direction. From 500 to 300 they typically blow a different direction. From 200 to the 0 yard line they blow a different direction again.

    This phenomenon was created by my instructor at the time when they designed the range. When they built the range they made a huge mound that covers a span of some 200 yards. This mound is to the South of the range if I remember correctly. The winds hit this mound then go over it, and to either side of it. I have watched the grass blades bend different directions. There is also a semi-seasonal creek in the middle of the range. This area creates a low pressure area right in the center of the range and further wreaks havoc on the conditions, reading the winds and calculating the anticipated deviation of the round.

    Due to the difficulty in calculating winds on this range, I utilized a very simple method for calculating the winds. I'll share that TTP in a later post

    As well, in later posts I will be discussing the following: (1) how to read winds, (2) how to calculate their effects on the round in flight, (3) how to deal with winds that are opposing in nature.

    Thank you for your question. It's a tough situation to deal with. We'll be looking at this more in depth.

    If I didn't answer your question to the extent desired, let me know and we'll continue to dig in.


    TAKE AWAY
    Gathering DOPE (winds, elevation effects etc.) never ends and for the most effective calculations this information must be gathered at each yard line.



    -Krieger
    wheb gathering dope how do you get a starting point at each yard line? I’ve seen some just add some clicks to the scope and see what happens? Do you have a better method?
     

    Rocketvapor

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  • Dec 10, 2018
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    You may be a great shooter, OAF, a good one on one instructor, but not a good BASIC Blogger.
    I find your minimized 7 yard zero instruction actually dangerous for someone that can't zero a rifle.
    For you to imply that you can shoot center at 7 yards kneeling, target center on a typical stand, then give the rifle to a prone shooter and not have the target at a proper height to prevent that 2 mile shot sounds irresponsible.

    Shooting center on your 7 yard target says you have your scope line of sight intersecting your bullet path at 7 yards. Using a typical scoped AR sight height of 2.7 inches and a typical 1 inch drop @ 100 meters, your 100 zero is going a be a tad high :) By about a METER.
    That's why I said a 7 yard center zero would be close for 1000 yards.
    You know that, but didn't cover it in your write up. Leaving out details that could cause a rookie to drop rounds a mile out is poor form.
     

    armorpl8chikn

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    You may be a great shooter, OAF, a good one on one instructor, but not a good BASIC Blogger.
    I find your minimized 7 yard zero instruction actually dangerous for someone that can't zero a rifle.
    For you to imply that you can shoot center at 7 yards kneeling, target center on a typical stand, then give the rifle to a prone shooter and not have the target at a proper height to prevent that 2 mile shot sounds irresponsible.

    Shooting center on your 7 yard target says you have your scope line of sight intersecting your bullet path at 7 yards. Using a typical scoped AR sight height of 2.7 inches and a typical 1 inch drop @ 100 meters, your 100 zero is going a be a tad high :) By about a METER.
    That's why I said a 7 yard center zero would be close for 1000 yards.
    You know that, but didn't cover it in your write up. Leaving out details that could cause a rookie to drop rounds a mile out is poor form.

    This problem was addressed in the other thread.
    Bullet rise will be counteracted by static redactance of the ionosphere, acting on the projectile. In other words it will push the bullet down.
     

    Rocketvapor

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    Oops, meant to post in part 1 thread.
    If my Call Sign was associated with a commercial entity as an INSTRUCTOR , I would have the company lawyers review posts meant to be instructional.

    Does your boss know about your social media presence?
    Did you lose a bet?
     
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    TheBigCountry

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    Good morning Trigger Monkey,

    I see that you live in Winchester, VA. I was in Winchester several years ago. There was a long distance range in the mountains there that I frequented. I forget the name of it. It's been some time.

    As you've been a member of this form for some 16 years +, I would assume that you know just about everything that there is to know about MIL dots. With this in mind, what exactly would you like me to expound upon?

    -Krieger
    Hi Krieger,

    Who did you work with in Baghdad doing the security work? What company and what time frame? A few guys here spent time there, doing the same, so if you give us a little more details surely someone here can remember you.

    Also, can you bench 275?
     

    POI_Shift

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    I would add my .02 here but I was only contracting under Meal Team 6 attached to MCD.
     

    Krieger_Tactics

    Rip Van WInkle
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    Also, @Krieger_Tactics, post up some pics of your rigs. Surely you have some AI quality rifles there. Show us!


    Hello TheBigCountry,

    Just a note re weapons. My primary discipline is asset recovery and preparation for TEOTWAWKI situations. With this in mind, my weapons are designed around availability of repair parts and ammunition in a time when there are no repair parts nor ammunition. I'm speaking tongue in cheek here. With this in mind, I keep all of my weapons very basic and primary. Meaning, I run glock 17s as my handgun and I run a standard AR (16" barrel) as my rifle. To my rifles I add nothing more than a sling, an optic (Aimpoint H series), and BIS. Anything else is, for me, excessive and needlessly heavy, especially in a world where ounces make pounds.

    As RocketVapor noted, pictures of one of a main battle rifle (as I refer to it, and as I run it) has been posted to the website. If you want the link I will DM it to you, no issues.
     
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    TheBigCountry

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    Hello TheBigCountry,

    Just a note re weapons. My primary discipline is asset recovery and preparation for TEOTWAWKI situations. With this in mind, my weapons are designed around availability of repair parts and ammunition in a time when there are no repair parts nor ammunition. I'm speaking tongue in cheek here. With this in mind, I keep all of my weapons very basic and primary. Meaning, I run glock 17s as my handgun and I run a standard AR (16" barrel) as my rifle. To my rifles I add nothing more than a sling, an optic (Aimpoint H series), and BIS. Anything else is, for me, excessive and needlessly heavy, especially in a world where ounces make pounds.

    As RocketVapor noted, pictures of one of a main battle rifle (as I refer to it, and as I run it) has been posted to the website. If you want the link I will DM it to you, no issues.
    So you teach long range shooting with an AR? You don’t own a long-range rifle like a 308 with a precision optic? Or train with one?
     
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    Krieger_Tactics

    Rip Van WInkle
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    I'm not going to say I know everything about mil dots, if there's one thing I've learned about life it's that a long time spent doing something doesn't equate to competence at said endeavor.

    That being said, the information above is nothing new. Is it wrong? Not really, but it's super basic and most members here are well past that, not to mention working with things like weaponized math, speed drop factor, and gun mph wind. With a background as enriched as yours why talk about a mildot reticle? Especially when most manufacturers and the military has pretty much phased it out.


    Hello Trigger Monkey,

    Your question, "
    With a background as enriched as yours why talk about a mildot reticle?", is quite valid..

    The reason why I am starting with MIL dot reticles is that, despite the military's new TTPs many civilian marksmen are still using duplex and MIL dot style reticles. In fact, if you go to the Leupold site (
    https://www.leupold.com/shop/riflescopes) and start looking at scopes you will see that the first three scopes being offered are all duplex reticles. The next three scopes all use a version of MIL dot reticles. After looking at 6 scopes I stopped searching. That's what the civilian who goes to the Leupold site finds when he or she starts looking for a scope... Duplex and MIL dot.

    With the new scope reticles being utilzed such as the Horace Tremor 3, and 5 etc., who is actually providing information regarding the older MIL dot type reticles that (1) Are still being used and (2) Are still being sold to the civilian populace? That's a rhetorical question, of course.

    Finally, this past week I assisted two shooters in zeroing their rifles. Both of them are still utilizing MIL dot reticles, yet had no idea about slipping scales, or getting their ACTUAL DOPE at range, meaning that just because your BDC says 3 doesn't mean it is actually a 300 yard zero for your gun and your ammo. Mine never is... not even with the Tremor series of reticles. I am always a +1 or 2.

    But I digress.

    It was my assistance to these two persons that made me realize that there might be a lack of information out there regarding the basic and advanced methods of engaging targets using MIL dot reticles. It is this potential gap that I seek to fill.

    I hope that this information provides the background as to why I, with as much experience I have am starting with MIL dot reticles and why I am providing such basic information, which I fully admit is not very new... It's for those who haven't found it but are looking for it and who have the scopes that we're discussing.

    -Krieger
     

    Krieger_Tactics

    Rip Van WInkle
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    Let me know when we get to loophole.

    Hello TacticalDillhole,

    Let me be the first to inform you... Loophole shooting is way outside of my ability. I've done it once... Long ago... It was difficult then and I'm sure that it'd be even more difficult now.

    When this series gets to loophole shooting I would be more than happy to your or anyone else's expertise in this field.

    -Krieger
     

    TheBigCountry

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    Hello Trigger Monkey,

    Your question, "
    With a background as enriched as yours why talk about a mildot reticle?", is quite valid..

    The reason why I am starting with MIL dot reticles is that, despite the military's new TTPs many civilian marksmen are still using duplex and MIL dot style reticles. In fact, if you go to the Leupold site (
    https://www.leupold.com/shop/riflescopes) and start looking at scopes you will see that the first three scopes being offered are all duplex reticles. The next three scopes all use a version of MIL dot reticles. After looking at 6 scopes I stopped searching. That's what the civilian who goes to the Leupold site finds when he or she starts looking for a scope... Duplex and MIL dot.

    With the new scope reticles being utilzed such as the Horace Tremor 3, and 5 etc., who is actually providing information regarding the older MIL dot type reticles that (1) Are still being used and (2) Are still being sold to the civilian populace? That's a rhetorical question, of course.

    Finally, this past week I assisted two shooters in zeroing their rifles. Both of them are still utilizing MIL dot reticles, yet had no idea about slipping scales, or getting their ACTUAL DOPE at range, meaning that just because your BDC says 3 doesn't mean it is actually a 300 yard zero for your gun and your ammo. Mine never is... not even with the Tremor series of reticles. I am always a +1 or 2.

    But I digress.

    It was my assistance to these two persons that made me realize that there might be a lack of information out there regarding the basic and advanced methods of engaging targets using MIL dot reticles. It is this potential gap that I seek to fill.

    I hope that this information provides the background as to why I, with as much experience I have am starting with MIL dot reticles and why I am providing such basic information, which I fully admit is not very new... It's for those who haven't found it but are looking for it and who have the scopes that we're discussing.

    -Krieger
    Mil-dots are soooo 2007. We all use this reticle here, so can you explain how you would use it in real life?

    Also, what kind of rifles were the two shooters using? Caliber? Scope?
     

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    Mike Casselton

    Non-Bidenary Trunk Monkey
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    I would add my .02 here but I was only contracting under Meal Team 6 attached to MCD.

    Commander McDonald?
    I know that fuck stick.
    Worked with that clown for two years in my early days.
    Prided himself on the people he hung out with.
    Politicians and criminals.
    One in the same if you ask me.
    I moved on.
     

    Yoteski

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    As soon as lesson #3 goes live can we please get these moved and pinned in the online training section?
    Move over Lowlight, there's a new call sign in town.
     
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    Trigger Monkey

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    despite the military's new TTPs many civilian marksmen are still using duplex and MIL dot style reticles. In fact, if you go to the Leupold site (https://www.leupold.com/shop/riflescopes) and start looking at scopes you will see that the first three scopes being offered are all duplex reticles. The next three scopes all use a version of MIL dot reticles. After looking at 6 scopes I stopped searching. That's what the civilian who goes to the Leupold site finds when he or she starts looking for a scope... Duplex and MIL dot
    The military's "new" TTP's regarding mil-based optics aren't that new, they started phasing straight mildot scopes out more than 15 years ago. I did got to the Leupold site and I think I found two riflescopes that have a mildot reticle, the rest were mil-based TMR, PR1, CCH, H59, Tremor3, maybe I wasn't looking in the right places. I'm not sure how it is in other forums but most here aren't flocking to Leupold or grabbing one of their straight mildot models if they do. Leupold has a well documented history of not really paying attention to the market and then getting dragged kicking and screaming into their half-assed attempt to put out a product.

    But I digress

    I think it's fine you're starting at the basics but the information on how to use a mil-based reticle is literally everywhere and applies equally to a mildot reticle, MIL-R, CCH, etc... I'm also not sure what relevance the duplex reticle plays in the discussion regarding mil-based reticles, there's ways to work with it for long range work but it's not germane to this topic.

    just because your BDC says 3 doesn't mean it is actually a 300 yard zero for your gun and your ammo. Mine never is... not even with the Tremor series of reticles. I am always a +1 or 2.

    I agree there can be a delta between true dope and the BDC but you lost me on that last part.

    It was my assistance to these two persons that made me realize that there might be a lack of information out there regarding the basic and advanced methods of engaging targets using MIL dot reticles. It is this potential gap that I seek to fill.

    Again, I don't think there's really a gap, I can google "how to use a mildot reticle" and come back with a lot of results, like a lot a lot, on the order of 1.3M results. I am curious about the "advanced" techniques.
     
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    TxWelder35

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    Well I went out to get some DOPE today. Didn’t score. I still haven’t figured out how to get an impact at 500. I can’t see where my shots are going. I played with my turrets and tried to use the 5th mil dot but nothing seemed to work
     
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    Krieger_Tactics

    Rip Van WInkle
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    So you teach long range shooting with an AR? You don’t own a long-range rifle like a 308 with a precision optic? Or train with one?


    I teach many courses. These courses are not long range marksmanship courses. During these courses I use a 16" AR.

    I do teach long range marksmanship. I do not teach long range marksmanship commercially. When I do teach long range marksmanship it's because someone that I know asked me to teach them. When I teach, I use the weapon and the scope that the person I'm training brings. In the case last week, both individuals brought scopes with MIL dot reticles. Teaching them motivated me to start this thread. I do own a Remington 700, 26" heavy barrel.
     

    TheBigCountry

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    I teach many courses. These courses are not long range marksmanship courses. During these courses I use a 16" AR.

    I do teach long range marksmanship. I do not teach long range marksmanship commercially. When I do teach long range marksmanship it's because someone that I know asked me to teach them. When I teach, I use the weapon and the scope that the person I'm training brings. In the case last week, both individuals brought scopes with MIL dot reticles. Teaching them motivated me to start this thread. I do own a Remington 700, 26" heavy barrel.
    So you teach long range rifle, but not commercially? Isn’t any class you do commercial? That’s kind of a contradiction, isn’t it? Sind you run it as a business, for money?

    Is it an AR or a “main battle rifle”. Your website states you don’t like to use the term AR, and you go in depth as to why you choose to call it a “main battle rifle”, so which is it?

    Post pics of your 700. Is it a 308? What scope and reticle are you using? What’s your DOPE?
     

    Krieger_Tactics

    Rip Van WInkle
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    Mil-dots are soooo 2007. We all use this reticle here, so can you explain how you would use it in real life?

    Also, what kind of rifles were the two shooters using? Caliber? Scope?

    Hello again TheBigCountry,

    I appreciate your query. I have no idea how to use the reticle that is pictured in your response.

    If you are asking me to explain how to use a MIL dot reticle in real life, I will be providing that information in subsequent posts.

    The other rifles were both Remingtons... One was a 6.5 creedmoor and the other was a .308.

    No idea what the scopes were. It didn't affect the instruction, so I did not bother to find out.

    -Krieger
     

    Krob95

    Black Multicam Master Race
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    Supporter+
  • Sep 7, 2019
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    NoCo
    Hey OP... can you please do us 'old guys' a favor and change your font color to white?

    For those of us with the "Hide Dark" setting... the red on black is murder on the eyes.

    Thanks and cheers,

    Sirhr
    Also for us younger guys. It's killing me reading a wall of text like that
     

    TheBigCountry

    Green Weenie
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  • Dec 9, 2013
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    Hello again TheBigCountry,

    I appreciate your query. I have no idea how to use the reticle that is pictured in your response.

    If you are asking me to explain how to use a MIL dot reticle in real life, I will be providing that information in subsequent posts.

    The other rifles were both Remingtons... One was a 6.5 creedmoor and the other was a .308.

    No idea what the scopes were. It didn't affect the instruction, so I did not bother to find out.

    -Krieger
    So which one was more accurate and easier to make hits with at distance, the 6.5 or 308?

    Also, wouldn’t it matter what the scopes were? Because if one was in MOA and the other MIL, or if one had MOA dials and a Mil-dot reticle, wouldn’t that affect how you taught the shooters at the same time?
     

    TheGerman

    Oberleutnant
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  • Jan 25, 2010
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    So update.

    Got the scope on the rifle. Managed to use a scope reticle hold on a guy and shot him with my first shot. Good to go.

    Now for the rest of you, I'm not really sure how much this 'hold on the reticle' thing really matters. Seeing as how the guy was 7 yards away, I could basically 'hold' on the entire reticle and hit him anyways.

    I hope Part 3 is more of a help.