Barrel flats, any one use them?
- Thread starter Schw15
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If I had a mill I’d 100% mill some flats in my barrel.
In the meantime I made this portable barrel Vice with a carbon fiber handle I rolled up.
In the meantime I made this portable barrel Vice with a carbon fiber handle I rolled up.
On my Nuke no because I have to pull the extractor to use the action wrench.
If you’re able to easily slip in action wrench yes.
I’m tempted to just use less torque and reef on it a bit in the chassis but am a bit leery on that with my 338 barrel.
I kinda regret trading in my old action wrench for the new one.
I never tighten up my barrels to 100 ft pounds so I was probably ok with the old one.
Ran flats at the muzzle for a spell...shoulders and 45ft lbs...
Easy enough to swap barrels out without removing the action in a MPA Comp chassis if you allowed clearance under the scope for the barrel shank. Same process may work on a number of other chassis, but can only speak on the MPA. When I moved away from the MPA back to traditional stocks I stopped using the flats because it took removing the action out of the stock anyhow to remove the barrel.
Easy enough to swap barrels out without removing the action in a MPA Comp chassis if you allowed clearance under the scope for the barrel shank. Same process may work on a number of other chassis, but can only speak on the MPA. When I moved away from the MPA back to traditional stocks I stopped using the flats because it took removing the action out of the stock anyhow to remove the barrel.
Thats a pretty nice fixture you made without a mill. Looks professionally made. Im sure anyone with a mill would cut the flats for a 6 pack. I know i would.
I have 3 barrels with flats for my Tikka. I swap barrels with a crows foot and a torque wrench, 40 ft/lbs does the trick. It is currently in a MDT ACC.
Just yesterday I picked my rifle up from the smith having had flats machines into my barrels.
It's also a Tikka, have a 24" CTR barrel and a 19" CTR barrel I hope to use interchangeably.
Went with 17mm flats at the muzzle end.
Not sure what I'll use for torque but even 30NM is very secure, takes a fair ol whack to loosen the barrel.
Hoping to test it out in a few days.
It's also a Tikka, have a 24" CTR barrel and a 19" CTR barrel I hope to use interchangeably.
Went with 17mm flats at the muzzle end.
Not sure what I'll use for torque but even 30NM is very secure, takes a fair ol whack to loosen the barrel.
Hoping to test it out in a few days.
Was thinking of doing wrench flats on my tikka instead of the switch lug I was planning on. How much torque is safe to put on wrench flats out on the muzzle? Can you put the wrench flats in front of the chamber instead where the barrel is heavier or will that create an issue? I’d rather this than use a barrel vise because reasons. If the flats will work, and it won’t hurt the barrel to put that amount of torque on it with the flats, that what I’d like to do.
I've put flats on my Tikka barrels, and haven't had any issues.
Was torquing to around 40 ftlb, which isn't crazy but some Google searches suggested it was enough.
To do anymore torque than that really need a rear action wrench or put the action in a vice.
An ex member here (Rubenski) did the same thing to his Tikka and said it worked just fine.
Reubenski wiped his threads off this site for job reasons (we think), but here’s an idea he helped start. The vise guy no longer makes that portable barrel vise, but if you have barrel flats you don’t need it. For more torque see the lower leg techniques (one is with an internal wrench).
www.snipershide.com
And damnit I miss Reubenski. I found myself eventually coming to the same gear conclusions that he did, after making a bunch of mistakes, of course.
For those interested in field swapping barrels...The Ross Vise
*** Special thanks to hide member reubenski who's setup with barrel flats inspired this rabbit hole. *** The last couple of years I've moved to a modular rifle system that uses Bighorn actions and a pile of interchangeable barrels in various chamberings and states of wear. The weak link in all...
www.snipershide.com
And damnit I miss Reubenski. I found myself eventually coming to the same gear conclusions that he did, after making a bunch of mistakes, of course.
Here is the post where he rigs up an internal action wrench to use while standing.
www.snipershide.com
Again, on the barrel end you’d obviously be using the barrel flats and not his portable vise.
For those interested in field swapping barrels...The Ross Vise
*** Special thanks to hide member reubenski who's setup with barrel flats inspired this rabbit hole. *** The last couple of years I've moved to a modular rifle system that uses Bighorn actions and a pile of interchangeable barrels in various chamberings and states of wear. The weak link in all...
www.snipershide.com
Again, on the barrel end you’d obviously be using the barrel flats and not his portable vise.
Here is a vid of Ted putting a barrel on an Archimedes using barrel flats and wrench out in the field. I think Ted is a VERY interesting person! haha
I have one barrel with flats. I torqued it with an action wrench. Now I have a crows foot. The next time I switch, I will give the crows foot a try. Definitely not going to 90 pounds. Good to know what others are doing.
Crows foot on a torque wrench if what I do.
I usually change the barrel Jacob style (rifle on bipod fully assembled) but if you want to torque it real tight I don't think you can rely on Jacobs method, will need to hold the action more securely.
I use AI's Borka's little wrench and snug it up without ever having RTZ issues. I wish I had Rubenski's posts to reference because I believe I came to the same conclusion as him: Anything over 40 ft.lbs. is good to go, but you have to be consistent in whatever force you decide on.
I didn't have issues going hand tight only (no idea on the force), but use the wrench for consistency and reliability.
I didn't have issues going hand tight only (no idea on the force), but use the wrench for consistency and reliability.
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AI has a wrench for that? It’s just a regular wrench, right, and not a crow’s foot torque wrench? If you have a pic that’d be great.
I just use a Japanese adjustable wrench as it has zero play. Hate those sloppy adjustables.
Btw I like your avatar lol
Glad you asked... apparently it was a Borka wrench. It has the holes to be used as a crow's foot, but long enough handle that you can ensure the barrel is snug by hand. I can try and grab a pic later.
@Jrb572 @carbonbased
You can see the wrench in this pic. Its more about consistently hitting the same torque value than the actual torque value itself in my experience, so this works perfectly.
You can see the wrench in this pic. Its more about consistently hitting the same torque value than the actual torque value itself in my experience, so this works perfectly.
Dang, that little thing to the left of the fixit stick? How much torque can you impart with that?
On my AIAT I use a 10” Cresent wrench and snap it tight ugga bugga style.
I will be honest, I am not sure. I give it a snap and it requires the wrench to get the barrel lose again.
Personal anecdote:
When I first got the AI, I had to decide between keeping it or my DT SRS A1. I did a Return to Zero test where I shot 10 rounds at a single POA while removing the barrel completely between each shot. All were <0.7" which with whatever box Hornady match I was using at the time meant the deviation was within my shooting capabilities. Of course your mileage may very, so always test your own rifles to verify.
We have cut a bunch of them over the years. It's functional no doubt.
The torque question comes up and we recommend 75-100 because we need to put a number on there lest the old adage of 'if tight is good, then tighter is gooder' will be applied. Last year someone took it to heart and put so much torque into a barrel that they moved the shoulder and messed up the headspace. Thankfully nothing galled but it did require machine time to fix it.
The problem that I have run into with "snap in place" is a wandering zero from time to time. This is why I recommend putting some kind of torque into the joint. Typically anything over 45-50 ftlb works well but we recommend the 75-100 number because it's enough that people without a torque wrench won't under-do it or (generally) over do it. I did some testing specifically to figure this out in about 2011 or so, prior to PVA. Anything from 50-200 ftlb worked fine and I couldn't find any issues or benefits along that entire span. The upper range was a big PITA to swap barrels though. Without a performance benefit, there's no reason to go there and you run much more risk to ruin finishes, gall threads, etc.
I like the way the ARC pattern for 12 point wrenches looks the best. The question just comes down to cost on the machine work side.
The torque question comes up and we recommend 75-100 because we need to put a number on there lest the old adage of 'if tight is good, then tighter is gooder' will be applied. Last year someone took it to heart and put so much torque into a barrel that they moved the shoulder and messed up the headspace. Thankfully nothing galled but it did require machine time to fix it.
The problem that I have run into with "snap in place" is a wandering zero from time to time. This is why I recommend putting some kind of torque into the joint. Typically anything over 45-50 ftlb works well but we recommend the 75-100 number because it's enough that people without a torque wrench won't under-do it or (generally) over do it. I did some testing specifically to figure this out in about 2011 or so, prior to PVA. Anything from 50-200 ftlb worked fine and I couldn't find any issues or benefits along that entire span. The upper range was a big PITA to swap barrels though. Without a performance benefit, there's no reason to go there and you run much more risk to ruin finishes, gall threads, etc.
I like the way the ARC pattern for 12 point wrenches looks the best. The question just comes down to cost on the machine work side.
This was the issue I had with trying to snap it in place only by hand. It wasn't consistent, and especially with external factors like rain or mud. With even a small wrench like mine, I gained all of the consistency back across multiple barrels. You are gaining a higher minimum torque, and there isn't a lot of leverage to give you a large torque range. Unless you intentionally He-man the piss out of it sometimes and are gentle the next of course...
Are you referring to just hand-tightening or, in my case, snapping it tight using a 10” Cresent wrench with the gun upright and the buttstock between my (standing) legs & feet? I’m guessing I might be hitting 50 ft/lbs, but I have no idea.
I definitely am sorta aggressive with it.
Just hand snapping it. What you're doing with holding the butt between your feet and using a wrench is definitely getting more torque on there than just the snap of the wrist.
Cool. I should buy a crow’s foot and just see how much effort it takes to hit various torque values using my “standing up” method. Any particular crow’s foot that you like? Or just buy whatever?
Well, answered my own question. I have a 1/2” drive torque wrench that I’d prefer to use a 1/2” drive crow’s foot with (instead of a 1/2” to 3/8” step-down adapter).
Turns out those things are relatively rare, with the tool truck brands and German brands charging big bucks for just one.
So if you’re looking for a 3/4” crows foot in 1/2” drive for a reasonable amount of cash (and from a reputable company), I give you this discontinued and blemished close out:
Buy a spare and get free shipping.
1/2 Inch Drive x 3/4 Inch Crowfoot Wrench (Blemished) | TEKTON
Blemished: Contains a variety of blemishes. Possible blemishes include rack marks, pitting, discoloration, blistering, scratches, and light markings. X93.
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I can apply about 40 - 50 ft lbs doing it that way. I've tested 20, 30, and 40 and found no difference in zero or accuracy. I'm 6'3" 245lbs fwiw
McMaster-Carr
McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.
Mcmaster has a 3/4" with a 3/8 drive. It's less than the snapon truck FWIW
Damn dude, u beast! I’m 5’10” and 170lbs, so we’ll see how much torque I can apply with ye olde torque wrench.
Really appreciate you sharing your experience man.
Yeah, I found a lot of 3/8” options, both $ and $$$$. But 1/2” drive? Nope. Tekton had a whole line of 1/2” drive crows feet, but discontinued them last year. Must not be big sellers.McMaster-Carr
McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.www.mcmaster.com
Mcmaster has a 3/4" with a 3/8 drive. It's less than the snapon truck FWIW
Even when I did find the 1/2” drive, they didn’t make them in 3/4”. Seemed to start at over an inch.
Yeah the Mcmaster options started at 15/16"
A 3/8 torque wrench is a good thing to have; even harbor freight has some really cheap options for them.
A 3/8 torque wrench is a good thing to have; even harbor freight has some really cheap options for them.
Yeah, totally agree. I own an inexpensive Amazon one in 1/2”, and heck, I barely need it. Just use it for changing shouldered barrels. I might pick a 3/8” one if I see a need in the future.
He who dies with the most tools wins!
