I’m wondering if a redesign in vests/plates is warranted to prevent bullet fragments from exiting after impact? I no nothing about current designs, but hate to think everything comes down to “chance” or luck in surviving if you are a vest wearer.
- Thread starter obx22
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They’re (vests/plates) constantly being improved and redesigned. Even so, shit happens and there’s always chance, luck, or Divine Intervention involved. Over the years, I’ve known several people who were wearing the best vest/plate money could buy (at the time), only to have the bullet miss the plate by an inch and kill them.
Even with a plate designed to contain spalling, an impact within an inch of the edge would not likely be stopped.
Even with a plate designed to contain spalling, an impact within an inch of the edge would not likely be stopped.
I have no doubt new and improved models will come on the market but I think this event was an unusual /freak . In a few weeks we will find out the who/what /where of the body armor and the ammo used . There is a good "chance" that a military type vest where the vest is much larger and some have neck protection would have saved him but his wear choice was a lowkey /low threat civilian type ....technically did its job but it is chance and luck too along with an old fudd gun/ caliber that people discount .
Um, it has been WELL established that “he” wasn’t wearing any sort of vest or plates.
As I said in this post...
Someone murdered Charlie Kirk
It is starting to appear as though, all that was needed to twart this was a person on a nearby elevated position with binos scanning rooftops and a radio to Charlies ground team. Frankly after Butler last year, it boggles the mind they did not have this given the hate Charlie garnered from...
www.snipershide.com
Only if he was wearing plates with molded-in nipples.
Daily wearing of bulky gear, especially the various designs and stopping power of vests, is an exercise in mental and physical endurance. Many civi’s imagine they would all shift/day wear something like an EOD tech if they were allowed to do so. The same civi’s can’t stop overeating and get themselves a bit of exercise every day. Like CC, it’s a decision every day that costs some comfort and a change in how you live. Pants trying to slide down with the wrong belt, not having a couple beers with dinner etc.
Don't worry. Soon we'll know for sure.
Top men are on it.
Top .. Men
Thank you,
MrSmith
I can recall news of some super thin, lightweight armor made from "synthetic spider silk" over 30 years ago. It never was seen that I know of and since then it seems to be yield problems with making enough it to be useful.
Within the past few years there was also news about some soft armor from china that could stop a .50 BMG, pretty sure it was discussed here.
I'd think the risk of blunt force trauma issues would be outweighed when something truly concealable is needed.
Within the past few years there was also news about some soft armor from china that could stop a .50 BMG, pretty sure it was discussed here.
I'd think the risk of blunt force trauma issues would be outweighed when something truly concealable is needed.
Its because soft armor doesn't give a whole lot of protection from blunt force trauma as a stand alone especially against full power rifle rounds
Yeah I don't know why this keeps coming up, you can see his nipples under his shirt, it's crazy that we'll need bullet proof glass and vests and overwatch to have a college debate.
There's a video above that is one hour 40min: the takeaway was it was clear Charles wasn't wearing plates when you see his nipples, but likely but one was on before he did his Q&A and hot shot because you literally see his T-shirt rise to face level. He likely changed when he got mic'd up between throwing out hats/introduction and the Q&A. Supposedly Ericka had insisted that he wear some plates/vest at these events. There is a good argument that anything that high caliber/rifle will obliterate the surrounding tissue - hence that did not look like the initial impact of a 30-06.
Been looking at the newest tech here as well. From my little research, Dayton Armour had some very thin plates. The In Conjunction With (ICW) soft armour is interesting. Soft armour has its place.
Why do I have to wear a ballistic vest in 2025 to have a debate over issues that we disagree? OUR country has devolved into one of those “shithole” countries. It’s a shame that I can no longer leave my home without carrying a firearm. The hate in America is at a crescendo.
If you want effective and light, it won’t be cheap.
These are the lightweight plates I got for my wife and daughter to keep in their “go” or “get home” bags: https://rmadefense.com/store/body-armor/special-rifle-threat/srt-lightweight-womens-body-armor/
They fit perfectly in lightweight Ferro Concepts Slickster plate carriers BTW. They have shingles with mags for whatever they have with them that attach with velcro in the backpack that’s stored right next to the carrier. Gives them the option to throw it on quickly if needed, or if they have time to get “kitted up” …again, if the situation warrants that level of gear we’re screwed anyway, but it helps me sleep at night knowing they have that available if something happens.
We also have Hesco 800-series Level 4 plates in plate carriers for every family member, plus my son’s wife here at the house in the safe room, but thinking about getting all three of them the multi-curve “female” Level 4 plates from those guys too.
They’re very $pendy though, and kind of hard to justify the additional expense when they already have the form-fitting lightweight level 3+ stuff at work (wife), and her apartment at school 6+ hours from here (daughter); plus those rather expensive Hesco level 4 plates here.
These are the lightweight plates I got for my wife and daughter to keep in their “go” or “get home” bags: https://rmadefense.com/store/body-armor/special-rifle-threat/srt-lightweight-womens-body-armor/
They fit perfectly in lightweight Ferro Concepts Slickster plate carriers BTW. They have shingles with mags for whatever they have with them that attach with velcro in the backpack that’s stored right next to the carrier. Gives them the option to throw it on quickly if needed, or if they have time to get “kitted up” …again, if the situation warrants that level of gear we’re screwed anyway, but it helps me sleep at night knowing they have that available if something happens.
We also have Hesco 800-series Level 4 plates in plate carriers for every family member, plus my son’s wife here at the house in the safe room, but thinking about getting all three of them the multi-curve “female” Level 4 plates from those guys too.
They’re very $pendy though, and kind of hard to justify the additional expense when they already have the form-fitting lightweight level 3+ stuff at work (wife), and her apartment at school 6+ hours from here (daughter); plus those rather expensive Hesco level 4 plates here.
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This is one of the most reasonable takes on this issue I’ve read so far… thanks for the insight.
Guess we’ll know for sure at some point once the autopsy’s released… And even if it’s not, the details about something like this will certainly be confirmed or denied.
I don’t think he was wearing a plate. My plates don’t really cover the area people think he was hit. CF rifle neck shot is devastating but you wouldn’t know it externally. Shot this buck in the neck a couple years ago with a 162 Amax in 7-08 from about 70 yards. Just lights out. Not a lot of blood, no drama. No exit wound. Charlie took it directly to the neck as far as my eyes can tell. All this body armor nonsense is just sensationalism from people who can’t understand what a CF rifle round does to actual tissue. The belief is it has to be something else because powerful round is powerful.
been like that for many decades.......ruined Lincoln's night at a playhouse
Specs for the Dayton plates. No idea if it true but have been told Dayton plates are popular with the Tier 1 units.
Even the best plates in the world require someone competent enough to hit them. That's a Captain Obvious statement, but we lost a good kid in 2007 to a "sniper" who threaded a bullet between the front and side SAPI plates, and hit the heart.
The great plate and AP bullet race was on in the early 2000s. We came out with plates that would stop 7.62x39 AP, and our boys started getting shot with 7.62x54. We came out with those hybrid gel plates to stop 7.62x54, and our boys started getting shot with 7.62x54 AP. After we came out with the ESAPI, I don't remember getting any more updates as long as I was issued plates. I did go from MTVRs back to plate carriers though. That was a relief.
In a decade we went from Vietnam-era flak jackets, to MTVRs with ESAPIs. Along with that came side plates, dick guards, throat guards, and the Army even had their poor bastards wearing those shoulder guards for a while. That was a pretty swift advancement in armor. **Admittedly, I don't keep up with what the current warfighters are being issued, so if there are more advancements please inform me.
Today, one could probably cheap out and get AR500 plates with an anti-spalling coating. Ceramic plates are still the bees' knees AFAIK.
As long as your plate can absorb 3-4 rounds of your common military cartridges (up to AP) and not frag your throat too much, I think it is doing everything one could ever hope for. Past that and you might want to reconsider your tactics...because they suck.
Innovation should be made IRT weight if you asked my (worthless) opinion. If you can get the above-mentioned level of protection and shave a pound or two... then you are moving in the right direction.
It'll take another major war to see real Innovation again though.
The great plate and AP bullet race was on in the early 2000s. We came out with plates that would stop 7.62x39 AP, and our boys started getting shot with 7.62x54. We came out with those hybrid gel plates to stop 7.62x54, and our boys started getting shot with 7.62x54 AP. After we came out with the ESAPI, I don't remember getting any more updates as long as I was issued plates. I did go from MTVRs back to plate carriers though. That was a relief.
In a decade we went from Vietnam-era flak jackets, to MTVRs with ESAPIs. Along with that came side plates, dick guards, throat guards, and the Army even had their poor bastards wearing those shoulder guards for a while. That was a pretty swift advancement in armor. **Admittedly, I don't keep up with what the current warfighters are being issued, so if there are more advancements please inform me.
Today, one could probably cheap out and get AR500 plates with an anti-spalling coating. Ceramic plates are still the bees' knees AFAIK.
As long as your plate can absorb 3-4 rounds of your common military cartridges (up to AP) and not frag your throat too much, I think it is doing everything one could ever hope for. Past that and you might want to reconsider your tactics...because they suck.
Innovation should be made IRT weight if you asked my (worthless) opinion. If you can get the above-mentioned level of protection and shave a pound or two... then you are moving in the right direction.
It'll take another major war to see real Innovation again though.
Show me a video of the entrance wound ...............I have yet to see one...............
i don’t believe he was wearing plates! And I wish people would stop with this .30-06 will take your arm off nonsense or do massive damage. Unless it started to yaw or was some kind of bullet designed to do damage then I don’t know why everyone has this idea that we would have seen massive trauma. More than likely it was an FMJ and just zipped right on through and unfortunately just happened to hit in a very bad area that is one of the least protected. Very sad.
Everything about this is very suspect but I don’t think he was wearing plates. It’s possible he could have put some on right before the Q&A but I don’t think it’s likely and if so they were the most hidden plates I’ve ever seen under a t shirt. I also feel pretty confident they would have stated as much by now.
Everything about this is very suspect but I don’t think he was wearing plates. It’s possible he could have put some on right before the Q&A but I don’t think it’s likely and if so they were the most hidden plates I’ve ever seen under a t shirt. I also feel pretty confident they would have stated as much by now.
If he was wearing plates then we need to dig and see if we can find out what. Should be pretty easy to do a test with some plates, a ballistic dummy, .30-06 and replicate the approximate distance and angle. I still do not see any indication he was wearing plates. Likely just an FMJ zipping through soft tissue with little resistance.
Find the video referenced in post #10 of the original "Someone murdered Charlie Kirk" thread. Watch it frame by frame. Just after Charlie answers someone in the crowd and lowers his mic a circular impression about 5" diameter and an inch or so deep appears roughly 2" up and to Charlie left of his center of mass. It disappears almost immediately as the letters on the shirt arch upward. The letters fall back to straight as the collar begins to rise. The collar falls back just before the first trace of blood appears on his neck.
Everyone knows what happens then and it is not germane to the question of his wearing armor or not.
My take, worth what you paid, is the murderer aimed center mass, impact was roughly 2" high right, the vest absorbed the strike but the deformed slug ricocheted upward, lifting the collar before entering his neck. At that angle it ruptures the artery lengthwise, results as shown in the video.
Yes, Charlie has nipples. Although most of the videos are now taken down as I remember the images of him moving around interacting with the crowd do not appear to show body armor. Once he gets his mics, sits and becomes stationary there is a side image where it looks like something under the shirt is hanging up on the backrest of the chair. Other images posted elsewhere seem to indicate he had armor.
Many here have seen slomo sequences of armor/bullet strikes. That is what is shown in the original video of 5 days ago.
I would post it and set it to the proper time but I'm not computer savvy enough to find a copy since it's been pulled.
Find a copy of the video and look for yourself. The answer was evident days ago. "Top Men" will not be informing us of anything having to do with security specifics.
Thank you,
MrSmith
Everyone knows what happens then and it is not germane to the question of his wearing armor or not.
My take, worth what you paid, is the murderer aimed center mass, impact was roughly 2" high right, the vest absorbed the strike but the deformed slug ricocheted upward, lifting the collar before entering his neck. At that angle it ruptures the artery lengthwise, results as shown in the video.
Yes, Charlie has nipples. Although most of the videos are now taken down as I remember the images of him moving around interacting with the crowd do not appear to show body armor. Once he gets his mics, sits and becomes stationary there is a side image where it looks like something under the shirt is hanging up on the backrest of the chair. Other images posted elsewhere seem to indicate he had armor.
Many here have seen slomo sequences of armor/bullet strikes. That is what is shown in the original video of 5 days ago.
I would post it and set it to the proper time but I'm not computer savvy enough to find a copy since it's been pulled.
Find a copy of the video and look for yourself. The answer was evident days ago. "Top Men" will not be informing us of anything having to do with security specifics.
Thank you,
MrSmith
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