Re: 155 smks for hunting
Why do you think bullet makers make HUNTING and MATCH bullets?
Once set up, match bullets (a simple cup and core design) are easier and cheaper to make so why bother with bonded cores, monolythic hollow points, controlled expansion and so on?
Maybe it's because that for a hunting bullet to function properly
under real world hunting conditions requires something more than a slightly larger varmint bullet.
I wish all these match bullets advocates would go to Alaska and take on a Brown Bear in the alders with their A Maxes, SMKs, Bergers and so on. At least we'd be rid of them and it would provide some gory footage for the silly "hunting" shows on TV.
Why do you think bullet makers make HUNTING and MATCH bullets?
Once set up, match bullets (a simple cup and core design) are easier and cheaper to make so why bother with bonded cores, monolythic hollow points, controlled expansion and so on?
Maybe it's because that for a hunting bullet to function properly
under real world hunting conditions requires something more than a slightly larger varmint bullet.
I wish all these match bullets advocates would go to Alaska and take on a Brown Bear in the alders with their A Maxes, SMKs, Bergers and so on. At least we'd be rid of them and it would provide some gory footage for the silly "hunting" shows on TV.
Re: 155 smks for hunting
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why do you think bullet makers make HUNTING and MATCH bullets?
Once set up, match bullets (a simple cup and core design) are easier and cheaper to make so why bother with bonded cores, monolythic hollow points, controlled expansion and so on?
Maybe it's because that for a hunting bullet to function properly
under real world hunting conditions requires something more than a slightly larger varmint bullet.
I wish all these match bullets advocates would go to Alaska and take on a Brown Bear in the alders with their A Maxes, SMKs, Bergers and so on. At least we'd be rid of them and it would provide some gory footage for the silly "hunting" shows on TV. </div></div>
Here we go again with the ignorant replies. No one advocating using the bullets of Brown Bear you dipshit. I think most headed towards a bullet like a TSX for that job.
But keep rambling with your own agenda as you have no real value to add to the thread.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why do you think bullet makers make HUNTING and MATCH bullets?
Once set up, match bullets (a simple cup and core design) are easier and cheaper to make so why bother with bonded cores, monolythic hollow points, controlled expansion and so on?
Maybe it's because that for a hunting bullet to function properly
under real world hunting conditions requires something more than a slightly larger varmint bullet.
I wish all these match bullets advocates would go to Alaska and take on a Brown Bear in the alders with their A Maxes, SMKs, Bergers and so on. At least we'd be rid of them and it would provide some gory footage for the silly "hunting" shows on TV. </div></div>
Here we go again with the ignorant replies. No one advocating using the bullets of Brown Bear you dipshit. I think most headed towards a bullet like a TSX for that job.
But keep rambling with your own agenda as you have no real value to add to the thread.
Re: 155 smks for hunting
Mr Humble,
Please don't get all worked up over honest question about a particular bullet.After all,the purpse of this site is to ask question to gather knowledge so that we can make a educated decision. The reason i ask this question is,#1 I read our servicemen in Iraq have been using the 77 smk on insurgents out to 700 yards with lethal e ffect.#2 don,t police and military snipers use SMK'S with good results. So it stands to reason that it would be a good bullet to use on a 150lb white tail.
Mr Humble,
Please don't get all worked up over honest question about a particular bullet.After all,the purpse of this site is to ask question to gather knowledge so that we can make a educated decision. The reason i ask this question is,#1 I read our servicemen in Iraq have been using the 77 smk on insurgents out to 700 yards with lethal e ffect.#2 don,t police and military snipers use SMK'S with good results. So it stands to reason that it would be a good bullet to use on a 150lb white tail.
Re: 155 smks for hunting
LOL, here we go again. It's all on matching bullet contruction, velocity and game. Even a bonded or heavily constructed bullet will fail if it's not used within it's parameters.
LOL, here we go again. It's all on matching bullet contruction, velocity and game. Even a bonded or heavily constructed bullet will fail if it's not used within it's parameters.
Re: 155 smks for hunting
Ed,
I have shot several deer out to 250 yds with a 168gr SMK bullet with excellent results. While they are primarily a match bullet (obviously) they have no problems putting down an animal. The biggest problem is not whether it will penetrate bone be it a front shoulder other other, they tend not to exit which can make for some tough tracking in rough country. That being said, if you put a good shot on a white tail, you will not have any issues with this bullet. I have even shot big hogs with the same round, again no exit but devastating expansion in the vitals. Thank you Mr. H, for again getting off topic about a question that was directed towards WT deer, not 800lb Alaskan Brown bear. If you have no positive, (factual and practical) information to add, don't bother wasting your time responding. I believe most everyone would appreciate that much.
Chad
Ed,
I have shot several deer out to 250 yds with a 168gr SMK bullet with excellent results. While they are primarily a match bullet (obviously) they have no problems putting down an animal. The biggest problem is not whether it will penetrate bone be it a front shoulder other other, they tend not to exit which can make for some tough tracking in rough country. That being said, if you put a good shot on a white tail, you will not have any issues with this bullet. I have even shot big hogs with the same round, again no exit but devastating expansion in the vitals. Thank you Mr. H, for again getting off topic about a question that was directed towards WT deer, not 800lb Alaskan Brown bear. If you have no positive, (factual and practical) information to add, don't bother wasting your time responding. I believe most everyone would appreciate that much.
Chad
Re: 155 smks for hunting
There is a good article in Rifle magazine on shooting deer, pigs, red stag and some kid of sheep with Berger VLDs. They basically said about what Brokes said about the SMK. They rarely had an exit wound also. Penetrated about 2 inches in and come apart and penetrated about 15 inches if I remember correctly. John Barsness wrote the article so I don't doubt his findings. He felt comfortable about shooting deer with them. But he used a 257 Roberts on up.
There is a good article in Rifle magazine on shooting deer, pigs, red stag and some kid of sheep with Berger VLDs. They basically said about what Brokes said about the SMK. They rarely had an exit wound also. Penetrated about 2 inches in and come apart and penetrated about 15 inches if I remember correctly. John Barsness wrote the article so I don't doubt his findings. He felt comfortable about shooting deer with them. But he used a 257 Roberts on up.
Re: 155 smks for hunting
Looking at Cabelas catolog, Bergeralso has Match Varmint and Match VLD Hunting bullets.
Looking at Cabelas catolog, Bergeralso has Match Varmint and Match VLD Hunting bullets.
Re: 155 smks for hunting
I personally would not hesitate to use the 155 SMK for a deer round. I plan on using 155 Berger VLD's for the same. I HAVE used (against Mr. H's better judgement) 175 SMK's for elk. Not once but four times with equally positive results. All were pass throughs. All were dead and not one was shot up the ass.
The empirical evidence provided by hunters using match bullets on game with positive results can only be ignored by those who live with their eyes wide shut.
I have not experienced "failure" with a match bullet, nor have I experienced it with a hunting bullet. I have yet to recover any bullet from an animal. The only "failure" I can forsee, is the failure to properly place a projectile, regardless of construction. If I cannot put the bullet exactly where I want, I pack up and go home.
I personally would not hesitate to use the 155 SMK for a deer round. I plan on using 155 Berger VLD's for the same. I HAVE used (against Mr. H's better judgement) 175 SMK's for elk. Not once but four times with equally positive results. All were pass throughs. All were dead and not one was shot up the ass.
The empirical evidence provided by hunters using match bullets on game with positive results can only be ignored by those who live with their eyes wide shut.
I have not experienced "failure" with a match bullet, nor have I experienced it with a hunting bullet. I have yet to recover any bullet from an animal. The only "failure" I can forsee, is the failure to properly place a projectile, regardless of construction. If I cannot put the bullet exactly where I want, I pack up and go home.
Re: 155 smks for hunting
Hey ffl medic,
What did you use those 175s in and what did the unsides look like? What distance did you shoot at? i didn't want to use them since I like exits so I may get a better blood trail. I'm not the best tracker so I like to have the odds stacked in my favor. Thanks, John
Hey ffl medic,
What did you use those 175s in and what did the unsides look like? What distance did you shoot at? i didn't want to use them since I like exits so I may get a better blood trail. I'm not the best tracker so I like to have the odds stacked in my favor. Thanks, John
Re: 155 smks for hunting
The 175 SMK's were shot out of the AR10. (.308 @ 2650 fps) Range from 200 to just short of 400. I wasn't able to find "entrance wounds" until after gutting/skinning etc. Exits were about the size of silver dollars/raquetball sized. I aim for the offside shoulder and line the x-hairs with that leg. No tracking required. As far as blood trail, I couldn't say. I got one in a meadow at 400 that was in about a foot of snow and the bullet made quite a mess out there.
The 175 SMK's were shot out of the AR10. (.308 @ 2650 fps) Range from 200 to just short of 400. I wasn't able to find "entrance wounds" until after gutting/skinning etc. Exits were about the size of silver dollars/raquetball sized. I aim for the offside shoulder and line the x-hairs with that leg. No tracking required. As far as blood trail, I couldn't say. I got one in a meadow at 400 that was in about a foot of snow and the bullet made quite a mess out there.
Re: 155 smks for hunting
Cool beans thanks. Same deal with the Bergers, game didn't travel far so tracking wasn't an issue. But Murphy seems to pop up around me every once in awhile so I like to keep the odds stacked in my favor.
Cool beans thanks. Same deal with the Bergers, game didn't travel far so tracking wasn't an issue. But Murphy seems to pop up around me every once in awhile so I like to keep the odds stacked in my favor.
Re: 155 smks for hunting
Dont have any first hand experience with the 155SMK but have taken and seen a crap load of mule deer taken with the 155 Lapua scenar out of 308s.
This buck was taken by one of my hunters with my Surgeon .308 at 300 meters with a 155 lapua...thats the exit hole showing.
Dont have any first hand experience with the 155SMK but have taken and seen a crap load of mule deer taken with the 155 Lapua scenar out of 308s.
This buck was taken by one of my hunters with my Surgeon .308 at 300 meters with a 155 lapua...thats the exit hole showing.
Re: 155 smks for hunting
Did Scenar expanded? I have shot some black grouses and other birds whit 155 Scenar. Those bullet didnt expanded at all, just a clean hole through.
I havent shot any big game whit Scenar because its illegal here.
Did Scenar expanded? I have shot some black grouses and other birds whit 155 Scenar. Those bullet didnt expanded at all, just a clean hole through.
I havent shot any big game whit Scenar because its illegal here.
Re: 155 smks for hunting
I would use them up to deer size critters with good bullet placement. they will expand. Ive recovered a few under the hide that werent seperated and were mushroomed nicely. they are very comparable to bergers VLD expansion wise.
I would use them up to deer size critters with good bullet placement. they will expand. Ive recovered a few under the hide that werent seperated and were mushroomed nicely. they are very comparable to bergers VLD expansion wise.
Re: 155 smks for hunting
Heres another mature Mule Deer buck taken on the same day as the other one with the same rifle and load at 225 meters. Nov. 2008.
Good luck guys gotta run, Pat
Heres another mature Mule Deer buck taken on the same day as the other one with the same rifle and load at 225 meters. Nov. 2008.
Good luck guys gotta run, Pat
Re: 155 smks for hunting
Bunk, read and heed your own post.
i have used a 6.5 120 grain SMK on deer. basically it nuked and ruined half the meat. never again.
hunting elk with another guy using 7mm 130 SMKs. they performed much like FMJs with no expantion at all.
but maybe the 155s are somehow different lol.
Ed, the SMK is not universally loved in sniper service. there is plenty of research on the internet, and not all of it gives the 155 glowing reports. mostly because expantion issues.
Bunk, read and heed your own post.
i have used a 6.5 120 grain SMK on deer. basically it nuked and ruined half the meat. never again.
hunting elk with another guy using 7mm 130 SMKs. they performed much like FMJs with no expantion at all.
but maybe the 155s are somehow different lol.
Ed, the SMK is not universally loved in sniper service. there is plenty of research on the internet, and not all of it gives the 155 glowing reports. mostly because expantion issues.
Re: 155 smks for hunting
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why do you think bullet makers make HUNTING and MATCH bullets?
Once set up, match bullets (a simple cup and core design) are easier and cheaper to make so why bother with bonded cores, monolythic hollow points, controlled expansion and so on?
Maybe it's because that for a hunting bullet to function properly
under real world hunting conditions requires something more than a slightly larger varmint bullet.
I wish all these match bullets advocates would go to Alaska and take on a Brown Bear in the alders with their A Maxes, SMKs, Bergers and so on. At least we'd be rid of them and it would provide some gory footage for the silly "hunting" shows on TV. </div></div>
Ever think people like to use different bullets for different purposes. You insist on pushing your mentality and philosophy on others. Ever think other don't give a shit.
Match bullet shave been use on big game for a long time much longer than these forums have been around. Used by men your age at distances you can fathom.
On thin skinned game match bullets do work. Match bullets do fail. Hunting bullets do work, hunting bullets do fail. Nothing is perfect.
There is enough evidence to support that match bullets are effective on big game. Effective, accurate and efficient. You just need to deal with it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and it would provide some gory footage for the silly "hunting" shows on TV</div></div>
Yeah because as it stands right now all that footage is of guys using "hunting bullets"
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why do you think bullet makers make HUNTING and MATCH bullets?
Once set up, match bullets (a simple cup and core design) are easier and cheaper to make so why bother with bonded cores, monolythic hollow points, controlled expansion and so on?
Maybe it's because that for a hunting bullet to function properly
under real world hunting conditions requires something more than a slightly larger varmint bullet.
I wish all these match bullets advocates would go to Alaska and take on a Brown Bear in the alders with their A Maxes, SMKs, Bergers and so on. At least we'd be rid of them and it would provide some gory footage for the silly "hunting" shows on TV. </div></div>
Ever think people like to use different bullets for different purposes. You insist on pushing your mentality and philosophy on others. Ever think other don't give a shit.
Match bullet shave been use on big game for a long time much longer than these forums have been around. Used by men your age at distances you can fathom.
On thin skinned game match bullets do work. Match bullets do fail. Hunting bullets do work, hunting bullets do fail. Nothing is perfect.
There is enough evidence to support that match bullets are effective on big game. Effective, accurate and efficient. You just need to deal with it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and it would provide some gory footage for the silly "hunting" shows on TV</div></div>
Yeah because as it stands right now all that footage is of guys using "hunting bullets"
Re: 155 smks for hunting
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ffl medic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I personally would not hesitate to use the 155 SMK for a deer round. I plan on using 155 Berger VLD's for the same. I HAVE used (against Mr. H's better judgement) 175 SMK's for elk. Not once but four times with equally positive results. All were pass throughs. All were dead and not one was shot up the ass.
The empirical evidence provided by hunters using match bullets on game with positive results can only be ignored by those who live with their eyes wide shut.
I have not experienced "failure" with a match bullet, nor have I experienced it with a hunting bullet. I have yet to recover any bullet from an animal. The only "failure" I can forsee, is the failure to properly place a projectile, regardless of construction. If I cannot put the bullet exactly where I want, I pack up and go home. </div></div>
Well said...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ffl medic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I personally would not hesitate to use the 155 SMK for a deer round. I plan on using 155 Berger VLD's for the same. I HAVE used (against Mr. H's better judgement) 175 SMK's for elk. Not once but four times with equally positive results. All were pass throughs. All were dead and not one was shot up the ass.
The empirical evidence provided by hunters using match bullets on game with positive results can only be ignored by those who live with their eyes wide shut.
I have not experienced "failure" with a match bullet, nor have I experienced it with a hunting bullet. I have yet to recover any bullet from an animal. The only "failure" I can forsee, is the failure to properly place a projectile, regardless of construction. If I cannot put the bullet exactly where I want, I pack up and go home. </div></div>
Well said...
Re: 155 smks for hunting
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Harold Dale</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looking at Cabelas catolog, Bergeralso has Match Varmint and Match VLD Hunting bullets. </div></div>
You have to take what you read from Berger with a skeptical eye. They are a very marketing-oriented company.
The "match VLD hunting" version of their bullet is the old thin jacket match bullet. The ones they are calling just "match" these days are the thick jacket bullets that are the same external dimensions but have a thicker jacket needed to keep them together in the longer barreled match rifles attaining maximum velocity. Berger had some issues with their 6, 6.5, and 7mm bullets not making it to the target. I know of one shooter that had the same with a 30 cal 155.5. While I know of just this one instance, that bullet too has been revised and a thick jacket added.
Any way you cut it, Berger's venture into hunting is simply the use of a bullet designed for match shooting that has been used for hunting. The bullets were not designed specifically for hunting, be it the pre-thick jacket era or now. If one wants to really debate the Berger and Sierra match bullet use for hunting thing versus real hunting bullets, other than actual performance on game just section the bullets and get a Brinell hardness tester to test the jacket and core. Compare the construction and hardness of the two, then decide for yourself what makes the Berger "match hunting" bullet a "hunting" bullet - construction and materials or something else.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Harold Dale</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looking at Cabelas catolog, Bergeralso has Match Varmint and Match VLD Hunting bullets. </div></div>
You have to take what you read from Berger with a skeptical eye. They are a very marketing-oriented company.
The "match VLD hunting" version of their bullet is the old thin jacket match bullet. The ones they are calling just "match" these days are the thick jacket bullets that are the same external dimensions but have a thicker jacket needed to keep them together in the longer barreled match rifles attaining maximum velocity. Berger had some issues with their 6, 6.5, and 7mm bullets not making it to the target. I know of one shooter that had the same with a 30 cal 155.5. While I know of just this one instance, that bullet too has been revised and a thick jacket added.
Any way you cut it, Berger's venture into hunting is simply the use of a bullet designed for match shooting that has been used for hunting. The bullets were not designed specifically for hunting, be it the pre-thick jacket era or now. If one wants to really debate the Berger and Sierra match bullet use for hunting thing versus real hunting bullets, other than actual performance on game just section the bullets and get a Brinell hardness tester to test the jacket and core. Compare the construction and hardness of the two, then decide for yourself what makes the Berger "match hunting" bullet a "hunting" bullet - construction and materials or something else.
Re: 155 smks for hunting
Weda, is, as usual fill of do do. Hollow point/plastic tipped match bullets did not even exist before "my time". I still have several 100 172 gr FA Boattail FMJ (that's FULL METAL JACKET) bullets that were the standard for target shooting in 30-06s and 300 H&Hs long before our ex WY expert ever shot anything.
For anyone who has spent 1000s of dollars on a hunt to suggest that he would pass up (pack up and go home) a 7x7 Elk or a 65" Moose or a full curl Bighorn because it was not standing broadside where an enlarged varmint bullet might kill it is just plain silly when a properly constructed hunting bullet would ensure a clean kill even with a Texas heart shot.
I too read the story on Bergers on goats and a few Red Stags. I'd rather have two holes and broken shoulders than an invisible entry wound, no exit wound and no blood trail. I shot one Antelope years ago with an 150 gr .308 early Ballistic tip (pretty much built like an A Max) at 200 yards with a 300 H&H. It sure killed the Lope, but all I recovered (no exit) was an empty jacket and lots of blood shot meat filled with lead fragments. BTW hit NO bones!
All of this smacks of the same ego trip that encourages 1000 yards big game shooting. "Even though no experienced big game hunter/writer suggest that match bullets are a real substitute for bullets marketed for hunting, I REPEAT I know more than them and I REPEAT I can do it!!"
As for "empirical evidence", lots of poachers use 22 rimfires to kill whitetail deer.
Does that "empirical evidence" suggest that a 22 is suitable deer cartridge?
There is just no reason on earth to use anything to hunt with except a hunting bullet EXCEPT to stoke one's ego. They do nothing better and most things worse insofar as bullet performance across a broad range of conditions.
If you want to "push the envelope", why don't you try taking up traditional bowhunting with a longbow, rather than target shooting at live targets?
That requires real hunting... you know stalking, camo, using cover and wind to actually OUTSMART the game. (yes you have to get off the ATV)
I'll stick with my TSXs and hand sharpened broadheads. They always give full penetration and a good blood trail.
The "no lead" law can't come too soon for the sake of our big game population!
And I thought Gump was an only child.............
Weda, is, as usual fill of do do. Hollow point/plastic tipped match bullets did not even exist before "my time". I still have several 100 172 gr FA Boattail FMJ (that's FULL METAL JACKET) bullets that were the standard for target shooting in 30-06s and 300 H&Hs long before our ex WY expert ever shot anything.
For anyone who has spent 1000s of dollars on a hunt to suggest that he would pass up (pack up and go home) a 7x7 Elk or a 65" Moose or a full curl Bighorn because it was not standing broadside where an enlarged varmint bullet might kill it is just plain silly when a properly constructed hunting bullet would ensure a clean kill even with a Texas heart shot.
I too read the story on Bergers on goats and a few Red Stags. I'd rather have two holes and broken shoulders than an invisible entry wound, no exit wound and no blood trail. I shot one Antelope years ago with an 150 gr .308 early Ballistic tip (pretty much built like an A Max) at 200 yards with a 300 H&H. It sure killed the Lope, but all I recovered (no exit) was an empty jacket and lots of blood shot meat filled with lead fragments. BTW hit NO bones!
All of this smacks of the same ego trip that encourages 1000 yards big game shooting. "Even though no experienced big game hunter/writer suggest that match bullets are a real substitute for bullets marketed for hunting, I REPEAT I know more than them and I REPEAT I can do it!!"
As for "empirical evidence", lots of poachers use 22 rimfires to kill whitetail deer.
Does that "empirical evidence" suggest that a 22 is suitable deer cartridge?
There is just no reason on earth to use anything to hunt with except a hunting bullet EXCEPT to stoke one's ego. They do nothing better and most things worse insofar as bullet performance across a broad range of conditions.
If you want to "push the envelope", why don't you try taking up traditional bowhunting with a longbow, rather than target shooting at live targets?
That requires real hunting... you know stalking, camo, using cover and wind to actually OUTSMART the game. (yes you have to get off the ATV)
I'll stick with my TSXs and hand sharpened broadheads. They always give full penetration and a good blood trail.
The "no lead" law can't come too soon for the sake of our big game population!
And I thought Gump was an only child.............
Re: 155 smks for hunting
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Weda'</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ffl medic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I personally would not hesitate to use the 155 SMK for a deer round. I plan on using 155 Berger VLD's for the same. I HAVE used (against Mr. H's better judgement) 175 SMK's for elk. Not once but four times with equally positive results. All were pass throughs. All were dead and not one was shot up the ass.
The empirical evidence provided by hunters using match bullets on game with positive results can only be ignored by those who live with their eyes wide shut.
I have not experienced "failure" with a match bullet, nor have I experienced it with a hunting bullet. I have yet to recover any bullet from an animal. The only "failure" I can forsee, is the failure to properly place a projectile, regardless of construction. If I cannot put the bullet exactly where I want, I pack up and go home. </div></div>
Well said... </div></div>
Let me start by saying/stating that I have bought the concept of shooting match bullets at soft/thin skinned game, in the way you all describe it.
Medium to longrange deliberate shots, well placed.
However I would sort of raise a thought about a full implementation of this for all hunting conditions.
You all must know that the "average hunter" lacks in know how and shooting ability.
I would like to state that for a mixed type of hunting, driven game, flushed game, short range work and or in thickets, there are other needs/requirements on the bullets and there abilities, am I correct in this statement?
My conclusion and i belive it´s much like knocking in an open door is that there are places and uses for match bullets on game but that for most parts and in some cases only real hunting bullets will do the job right.
/Chris
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Weda'</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ffl medic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I personally would not hesitate to use the 155 SMK for a deer round. I plan on using 155 Berger VLD's for the same. I HAVE used (against Mr. H's better judgement) 175 SMK's for elk. Not once but four times with equally positive results. All were pass throughs. All were dead and not one was shot up the ass.
The empirical evidence provided by hunters using match bullets on game with positive results can only be ignored by those who live with their eyes wide shut.
I have not experienced "failure" with a match bullet, nor have I experienced it with a hunting bullet. I have yet to recover any bullet from an animal. The only "failure" I can forsee, is the failure to properly place a projectile, regardless of construction. If I cannot put the bullet exactly where I want, I pack up and go home. </div></div>
Well said... </div></div>
Let me start by saying/stating that I have bought the concept of shooting match bullets at soft/thin skinned game, in the way you all describe it.
Medium to longrange deliberate shots, well placed.
However I would sort of raise a thought about a full implementation of this for all hunting conditions.
You all must know that the "average hunter" lacks in know how and shooting ability.
I would like to state that for a mixed type of hunting, driven game, flushed game, short range work and or in thickets, there are other needs/requirements on the bullets and there abilities, am I correct in this statement?
My conclusion and i belive it´s much like knocking in an open door is that there are places and uses for match bullets on game but that for most parts and in some cases only real hunting bullets will do the job right.
/Chris
Re: 155 smks for hunting
I have never said that match bulllets are for everyone. They do however kill stuff with the same boring regularity as "hunting bullets".
Empircal evidence not only suggests that the .22 rimfire kills animals, it proves it. But that is not the arguement.
I do not own an atv. I have a very broken in Eberlestock pack.
I will not shoot an animal up the ass no matter how much I spend or how big the rack is. Match or hunting bullet.
Berger bullets do not act as an enlarged varmint bullet. Shoot some and see for yourself.
I have never recovered any bullets from game. ALWAYS complete penetration with decent exits. Match or hunting bullets.
With a few exceptions I have shot pretty much all of the popular premium hunting bullets and match bullets. The results were alway the EXACT same! The only LOGICAL conclusion is that bullet construction, manufacturer, weight, disatance are irrelevant when used in conjunction with accurate placement.
I have never said that match bulllets are for everyone. They do however kill stuff with the same boring regularity as "hunting bullets".
Empircal evidence not only suggests that the .22 rimfire kills animals, it proves it. But that is not the arguement.
I do not own an atv. I have a very broken in Eberlestock pack.
I will not shoot an animal up the ass no matter how much I spend or how big the rack is. Match or hunting bullet.
Berger bullets do not act as an enlarged varmint bullet. Shoot some and see for yourself.
I have never recovered any bullets from game. ALWAYS complete penetration with decent exits. Match or hunting bullets.
With a few exceptions I have shot pretty much all of the popular premium hunting bullets and match bullets. The results were alway the EXACT same! The only LOGICAL conclusion is that bullet construction, manufacturer, weight, disatance are irrelevant when used in conjunction with accurate placement.
Re: 155 smks for hunting
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Weda, is, as usual fill of do do. Hollow point/plastic tipped match bullets did not even exist before "my time". I still have several 100 172 gr FA Boattail FMJ (that's FULL METAL JACKET) bullets that were the standard for target shooting in 30-06s and 300 H&Hs long before our ex WY expert ever shot anything.
For anyone who has spent 1000s of dollars on a hunt to suggest that he would pass up (pack up and go home) a 7x7 Elk or a 65" Moose or a full curl Bighorn because it was not standing broadside where an enlarged varmint bullet might kill it is just plain silly when a properly constructed hunting bullet would ensure a clean kill even with a Texas heart shot.
I too read the story on Bergers on goats and a few Red Stags. I'd rather have two holes and broken shoulders than an invisible entry wound, no exit wound and no blood trail. I shot one Antelope years ago with an 150 gr .308 early Ballistic tip (pretty much built like an A Max) at 200 yards with a 300 H&H. It sure killed the Lope, but all I recovered (no exit) was an empty jacket and lots of blood shot meat filled with lead fragments. BTW hit NO bones!
All of this smacks of the same ego trip that encourages 1000 yards big game shooting. "Even though no experienced big game hunter/writer suggest that match bullets are a real substitute for bullets marketed for hunting, I REPEAT I know more than them and I REPEAT I can do it!!"
As for "empirical evidence", lots of poachers use 22 rimfires to kill whitetail deer.
Does that "empirical evidence" suggest that a 22 is suitable deer cartridge?
There is just no reason on earth to use anything to hunt with except a hunting bullet EXCEPT to stoke one's ego. They do nothing better and most things worse insofar as bullet performance across a broad range of conditions.
If you want to "push the envelope", why don't you try taking up traditional bowhunting with a longbow, rather than target shooting at live targets?
That requires real hunting... you know stalking, camo, using cover and wind to actually OUTSMART the game. (yes you have to get off the ATV)
I'll stick with my TSXs and hand sharpened broadheads. They always give full penetration and a good blood trail.
The "no lead" law can't come too soon for the sake of our big game population!
And I thought Gump was an only child.............
</div></div>
Laughable. For a publisher, you have very poor reading and comprehension skills. You are so hell bent on finding something negative to say that you don't understand nor comprehend what is being said.
What I said was guys your age are using them. They were being used long before these boards were around.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I REPEAT I know more than them and I REPEAT I can do it</div></div>
Says who? Never mind it's obvious.
Have you ever used a match bullet to kill big game?
(crickets chirping ) your opinion and your pseudo factual data hold as much water as a sieve.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is just no reason on earth to use anything to hunt with except a hunting bullet EXCEPT to stoke one's ego. They do nothing better and most things worse insofar as bullet performance across a broad range of conditions.</div></div>
This pretty much proves you know little. But hold in high regard everything you read, or have published for some "expert"
I've hunt as much from an atv and you have pulled a gooseneck to a 10,000 FS trailhead.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll stick with my TSXs and hand sharpened broadheads. They always give full penetration and a good blood trail.
The "no lead" law can't come too soon for the sake of our big game population!</div></div>
because everyone knows an arrow kills 100% faster and quicker than a bullet,never mind it out penetrates every time.
wow... you are right gump isn't an only child. He's got a much older brother. You must be pissed you never got the attention he did.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. Humble</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Weda, is, as usual fill of do do. Hollow point/plastic tipped match bullets did not even exist before "my time". I still have several 100 172 gr FA Boattail FMJ (that's FULL METAL JACKET) bullets that were the standard for target shooting in 30-06s and 300 H&Hs long before our ex WY expert ever shot anything.
For anyone who has spent 1000s of dollars on a hunt to suggest that he would pass up (pack up and go home) a 7x7 Elk or a 65" Moose or a full curl Bighorn because it was not standing broadside where an enlarged varmint bullet might kill it is just plain silly when a properly constructed hunting bullet would ensure a clean kill even with a Texas heart shot.
I too read the story on Bergers on goats and a few Red Stags. I'd rather have two holes and broken shoulders than an invisible entry wound, no exit wound and no blood trail. I shot one Antelope years ago with an 150 gr .308 early Ballistic tip (pretty much built like an A Max) at 200 yards with a 300 H&H. It sure killed the Lope, but all I recovered (no exit) was an empty jacket and lots of blood shot meat filled with lead fragments. BTW hit NO bones!
All of this smacks of the same ego trip that encourages 1000 yards big game shooting. "Even though no experienced big game hunter/writer suggest that match bullets are a real substitute for bullets marketed for hunting, I REPEAT I know more than them and I REPEAT I can do it!!"
As for "empirical evidence", lots of poachers use 22 rimfires to kill whitetail deer.
Does that "empirical evidence" suggest that a 22 is suitable deer cartridge?
There is just no reason on earth to use anything to hunt with except a hunting bullet EXCEPT to stoke one's ego. They do nothing better and most things worse insofar as bullet performance across a broad range of conditions.
If you want to "push the envelope", why don't you try taking up traditional bowhunting with a longbow, rather than target shooting at live targets?
That requires real hunting... you know stalking, camo, using cover and wind to actually OUTSMART the game. (yes you have to get off the ATV)
I'll stick with my TSXs and hand sharpened broadheads. They always give full penetration and a good blood trail.
The "no lead" law can't come too soon for the sake of our big game population!
And I thought Gump was an only child.............
</div></div>
Laughable. For a publisher, you have very poor reading and comprehension skills. You are so hell bent on finding something negative to say that you don't understand nor comprehend what is being said.
What I said was guys your age are using them. They were being used long before these boards were around.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I REPEAT I know more than them and I REPEAT I can do it</div></div>
Says who? Never mind it's obvious.
Have you ever used a match bullet to kill big game?
(crickets chirping ) your opinion and your pseudo factual data hold as much water as a sieve.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is just no reason on earth to use anything to hunt with except a hunting bullet EXCEPT to stoke one's ego. They do nothing better and most things worse insofar as bullet performance across a broad range of conditions.</div></div>
This pretty much proves you know little. But hold in high regard everything you read, or have published for some "expert"
I've hunt as much from an atv and you have pulled a gooseneck to a 10,000 FS trailhead.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll stick with my TSXs and hand sharpened broadheads. They always give full penetration and a good blood trail.
The "no lead" law can't come too soon for the sake of our big game population!</div></div>
because everyone knows an arrow kills 100% faster and quicker than a bullet,never mind it out penetrates every time.
wow... you are right gump isn't an only child. He's got a much older brother. You must be pissed you never got the attention he did.
Re: 155 smks for hunting
What I have learned from this thread..
For those that posses the typical hunter shooting ability, hunting bullets are best since shot placement will be minute of animal.
For those that can hit what they aim at with a high degree of skill, anything will work down to a 22 rimfire.
That makes sense to me, and might explain why Humble is such a hunting bullet advocate.
What I have learned from this thread..
For those that posses the typical hunter shooting ability, hunting bullets are best since shot placement will be minute of animal.
For those that can hit what they aim at with a high degree of skill, anything will work down to a 22 rimfire.
That makes sense to me, and might explain why Humble is such a hunting bullet advocate.
Re: 155 smks for hunting
Here's my take on it -
Sierra makes a great match bullet - use it for matches
Sierra makes an OUTSTANDING hunting bullet - one that in fact RIVALed the accuracy of the 155-
Go grab some 165 gr Sierra GAME Kings and use that - you may find it works better than match bullets.
I loaded them up at 46gr of Varget and they shoot straight and true out to 550, haven't gone much beyond that.
Ethically, I'd say just because you CAN do something, does not necessarily mean you should do it....
If something goes wrong your animal goes and dies for no reason after it runs off - and I'm not going to be rude about it, I just think wtih all the hunting bullets ouit there, WHY DO IT?
IF it's for an ego boost to use a match bullet, you alre ady know you can hit paper, varmits, why do it.
Here's my take on it -
Sierra makes a great match bullet - use it for matches
Sierra makes an OUTSTANDING hunting bullet - one that in fact RIVALed the accuracy of the 155-
Go grab some 165 gr Sierra GAME Kings and use that - you may find it works better than match bullets.
I loaded them up at 46gr of Varget and they shoot straight and true out to 550, haven't gone much beyond that.
Ethically, I'd say just because you CAN do something, does not necessarily mean you should do it....
If something goes wrong your animal goes and dies for no reason after it runs off - and I'm not going to be rude about it, I just think wtih all the hunting bullets ouit there, WHY DO IT?
IF it's for an ego boost to use a match bullet, you alre ady know you can hit paper, varmits, why do it.
Re: 155 smks for hunting
Exactly right Weda. I have discussed the bullet composition with the Sierra techs and have confirmed the core and jacket materials are the same between the Match King and the Game King. This was relevant to the conversation with them about interchanging my 200 MK and 200 GK load data - I wanted to verify bullet diameter of the bearing surface, length of the bearing surface, and bullet composition as these are the factors that effect pressure. The GK has a .013" shorter bearing surface, but other than that all the other critical elements are the same between the two bullets.
Personally I believe I can interchange GKs and MKs and not be worried about bullet performance and that if I were concerned about lead/copper bullet performance then the only logical alternative is the Barnes copper solids or tungsten insert bullets.
Exactly right Weda. I have discussed the bullet composition with the Sierra techs and have confirmed the core and jacket materials are the same between the Match King and the Game King. This was relevant to the conversation with them about interchanging my 200 MK and 200 GK load data - I wanted to verify bullet diameter of the bearing surface, length of the bearing surface, and bullet composition as these are the factors that effect pressure. The GK has a .013" shorter bearing surface, but other than that all the other critical elements are the same between the two bullets.
Personally I believe I can interchange GKs and MKs and not be worried about bullet performance and that if I were concerned about lead/copper bullet performance then the only logical alternative is the Barnes copper solids or tungsten insert bullets.
Re: 155 smks for hunting
yup...
which is why I don't fret using SMK's for hunting.
Albeit I can see where the polymer tip could be beneficial but not absolutely necessary.
yup...
which is why I don't fret using SMK's for hunting.
Albeit I can see where the polymer tip could be beneficial but not absolutely necessary.
Re: 155 smks for hunting
I have found that at distance under 100 yards my 115grain SMK's(6.8spc round) will fragment(lead spray internally, good killing power, but i got a little lead in one of the t-loins). The last deer I shot was about 170 yards with a 115g SMK and the bullet passed through, but I found part of the copper jacket stuck on the exit wound
I have found that at distance under 100 yards my 115grain SMK's(6.8spc round) will fragment(lead spray internally, good killing power, but i got a little lead in one of the t-loins). The last deer I shot was about 170 yards with a 115g SMK and the bullet passed through, but I found part of the copper jacket stuck on the exit wound
Re: 155 smks for hunting
Take out the tip and you have an expanding bullet that does more damage?
and since it's based on the SMK - and I can attest to it's accuracy, it's just my opinion, what I want is an expanding bullet that gets bigger as it goes through flesh instead of just flying through.
Everyone's gotta learn tho, but I am more of an advocate on shot placement - the 22 that was given to me because my cousin passed away has taken more deer than most of your average hunting rifles - all head shots from my backwoods uncle..
So again, shot placement...but I don't like to chance it, I'd rather have expansion.
Take out the tip and you have an expanding bullet that does more damage?
and since it's based on the SMK - and I can attest to it's accuracy, it's just my opinion, what I want is an expanding bullet that gets bigger as it goes through flesh instead of just flying through.
Everyone's gotta learn tho, but I am more of an advocate on shot placement - the 22 that was given to me because my cousin passed away has taken more deer than most of your average hunting rifles - all head shots from my backwoods uncle..
So again, shot placement...but I don't like to chance it, I'd rather have expansion.
Re: 155 smks for hunting
They are the same bullet only difference is the polymer tip and the name.
Accuracy trumps all, as you've attested to. ;-)
They are the same bullet only difference is the polymer tip and the name.
Accuracy trumps all, as you've attested to. ;-)
Re: 155 smks for hunting
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Weda'</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They are the same bullet only difference is the polymer tip and the name. </div></div>
They are lead tipped, at least the batch I have, total expansion, one shot on a deer 2 years ago, that's all she wrote...very good hunting bullets....
I like em because of their accuracy, that copper jacket over the tip does not seem to make that big of a difference out to 500.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Weda'</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They are the same bullet only difference is the polymer tip and the name. </div></div>
They are lead tipped, at least the batch I have, total expansion, one shot on a deer 2 years ago, that's all she wrote...very good hunting bullets....
I like em because of their accuracy, that copper jacket over the tip does not seem to make that big of a difference out to 500.
Re: 155 smks for hunting
Well then, I stand corrected. I thought they were polymer tipped.
BC will be affected although to 500 as a limit it won't make a huge difference.
I reference the cutaways as more of a way for those who say the hunting bullets have thicker, better jackets. Which obviously isn't the case.
Nosler calls the NBT's a hunting bullet. So in mr. h's tired old eyes it without question, works better than a SMK. However, those who have used a NBT know it's more of a grenade than a bullet.
I'm sure this will be argued for a 100 more years. The truth is match bullets work for thin skinned game and even game that have a hide as thick as an Elk.
Well then, I stand corrected. I thought they were polymer tipped.
BC will be affected although to 500 as a limit it won't make a huge difference.
I reference the cutaways as more of a way for those who say the hunting bullets have thicker, better jackets. Which obviously isn't the case.
Nosler calls the NBT's a hunting bullet. So in mr. h's tired old eyes it without question, works better than a SMK. However, those who have used a NBT know it's more of a grenade than a bullet.
I'm sure this will be argued for a 100 more years. The truth is match bullets work for thin skinned game and even game that have a hide as thick as an Elk.
Re: 155 smks for hunting
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Weda'</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I reference the cutaways as more of a way for those who say the hunting bullets have thicker better jackets. Which obviously isn't the case.
</div></div>
As I pointed out earlier the Berger hunting variant sticks with the older thinner jacket, not the new thick jacket. So much for that theory.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Weda'</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I reference the cutaways as more of a way for those who say the hunting bullets have thicker better jackets. Which obviously isn't the case.
</div></div>
As I pointed out earlier the Berger hunting variant sticks with the older thinner jacket, not the new thick jacket. So much for that theory.
Re: 155 smks for hunting
The last time yall argued about this I went out the next morning and shot a cull buck in the shoulder with a SMK and posted pics.
That is about as much as I can do to help yall here on the internet.
The last time yall argued about this I went out the next morning and shot a cull buck in the shoulder with a SMK and posted pics.
That is about as much as I can do to help yall here on the internet.
Re: 155 smks for hunting
I'm pretty sure the original (thin) Berger was "just" a match bullet. It too was not recomended for hunting purposes. However hunters who were match shooters began killing animals and after a while the evidence was just too hard to ignore. The new thick bullets do not as of yet have the evidence to claim hunting status as well. Stay tuned.
I too have spoken with Sierra about the SGK vs. SMK issue. In a nutshell, the SMK (according to Sierra) will most definately kill. However, they are maunufactured with no regard as to what happens after they leave the rifle. Therefore, Sierra cannot guarantee what happens under all hunting situations.
I guess I have a lot in common with archers. I wait until I have a broadside(ish) shot before pulling the trigger. that way, I CONTROL the hunting situation in which I wish to have to deliver a killing shot. I don't think there are any archers out there who would fling an arrow at game knowing full well the arrow would not hit vitals. I'm not talking femoral arteries either.
The cow I killed in Jan, was shot @ 200 with a 7mm 180 JLK (almost indistinguishable from a Berger) quartering HARD to me. The bullet entered the onside shoulder, and exited the flank. The entrance into the chest cavity to the exit on the flank measured 26". This does not take into account the entire shoulder muscle that was penetrated that was about 5". Just lungs, heart, liver were destroyed. No shit...literally. Never found that bullet or any pieces of it.
I'm pretty sure the original (thin) Berger was "just" a match bullet. It too was not recomended for hunting purposes. However hunters who were match shooters began killing animals and after a while the evidence was just too hard to ignore. The new thick bullets do not as of yet have the evidence to claim hunting status as well. Stay tuned.
I too have spoken with Sierra about the SGK vs. SMK issue. In a nutshell, the SMK (according to Sierra) will most definately kill. However, they are maunufactured with no regard as to what happens after they leave the rifle. Therefore, Sierra cannot guarantee what happens under all hunting situations.
I guess I have a lot in common with archers. I wait until I have a broadside(ish) shot before pulling the trigger. that way, I CONTROL the hunting situation in which I wish to have to deliver a killing shot. I don't think there are any archers out there who would fling an arrow at game knowing full well the arrow would not hit vitals. I'm not talking femoral arteries either.
The cow I killed in Jan, was shot @ 200 with a 7mm 180 JLK (almost indistinguishable from a Berger) quartering HARD to me. The bullet entered the onside shoulder, and exited the flank. The entrance into the chest cavity to the exit on the flank measured 26". This does not take into account the entire shoulder muscle that was penetrated that was about 5". Just lungs, heart, liver were destroyed. No shit...literally. Never found that bullet or any pieces of it.
Re: 155 smks for hunting
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Kick-Ass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The last time yall argued about this I went out the next morning and shot a cull buck in the shoulder with a SMK and posted pics.
That is about as much as I can do to help yall here on the internet. </div></div>
Pics or it didn't happen!!! :
grin:
Yes I agree a SMK puts them down nicely. But I will say if you are close enough, the higher speed will cause the bullet to fragment
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Kick-Ass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The last time yall argued about this I went out the next morning and shot a cull buck in the shoulder with a SMK and posted pics.
That is about as much as I can do to help yall here on the internet. </div></div>
Pics or it didn't happen!!! :
Yes I agree a SMK puts them down nicely. But I will say if you are close enough, the higher speed will cause the bullet to fragment
Re: 155 smks for hunting
I'm sure this will be argued for a 100 more years. The truth is match bullets work for thin skinned game and even game that have a hide as thick as an Elk.
This will be argued over and over again. There will be two trains of thought also, exit wound or total enrgy transfer and no exit wound. Both theories have merit. And I think it should as long as there is a constructive debate with no personal attacks or shots taken these discussions will benefit the hunter. We can learn alot from these discussions from people who have had successes and failures. When I worked for a bullet manufacturer we saw some failures with hunting bullets and most were using the wrong bullet for a given application, velocity, or game. Sometimes it was on the perception on how a bullet should act during terminal kinetic energy transfer, which the question of "how dead is dead?" was asked. The same could be asked for match bullets.
I'm sure this will be argued for a 100 more years. The truth is match bullets work for thin skinned game and even game that have a hide as thick as an Elk.
This will be argued over and over again. There will be two trains of thought also, exit wound or total enrgy transfer and no exit wound. Both theories have merit. And I think it should as long as there is a constructive debate with no personal attacks or shots taken these discussions will benefit the hunter. We can learn alot from these discussions from people who have had successes and failures. When I worked for a bullet manufacturer we saw some failures with hunting bullets and most were using the wrong bullet for a given application, velocity, or game. Sometimes it was on the perception on how a bullet should act during terminal kinetic energy transfer, which the question of "how dead is dead?" was asked. The same could be asked for match bullets.
Re: 155 smks for hunting
1sic, Bunk?
Those bucks look pretty dead to me.
The op asked for an opinion... I gave one.
Why dont you do the same without slighting me?
1sic, Bunk?
Those bucks look pretty dead to me.
The op asked for an opinion... I gave one.
Why dont you do the same without slighting me?
Re: 155 smks for hunting
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DocHoliday13</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Kick-Ass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The last time yall argued about this I went out the next morning and shot a cull buck in the shoulder with a SMK and posted pics.
That is about as much as I can do to help yall here on the internet. </div></div>
Pics or it didn't happen!!! :
grin:
Yes I agree a SMK puts them down nicely. But I will say if you are close enough, the higher speed will cause the bullet to fragment </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Kick-Ass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Exit wound from a buck I took this morning. 175SMK at 2720fps out of AR-10T.
After realizing I shot it with a SMK I panicked because I realized I had shot it with a match round.
I rappeled down the tripod. Got commo up with Dustoff and called in my grid coordinates. Ran to the down deer and popped smoke. I began emergency medical procedures and treated the deer for a sucking chest wound and broken shoulder. Sadly he didn't make it. If only he had known it was a SMK that hit him, he would still be alive.
Funeral services will be next Friday at my smoker.
only about 50 yards away from a 12' tripod. Entry was high right shoulder and exit was low left shoulder. I usualy stick them in the neck but thought, what the hell. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DocHoliday13</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Kick-Ass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The last time yall argued about this I went out the next morning and shot a cull buck in the shoulder with a SMK and posted pics.
That is about as much as I can do to help yall here on the internet. </div></div>
Pics or it didn't happen!!! :
Yes I agree a SMK puts them down nicely. But I will say if you are close enough, the higher speed will cause the bullet to fragment </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Kick-Ass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Exit wound from a buck I took this morning. 175SMK at 2720fps out of AR-10T.
After realizing I shot it with a SMK I panicked because I realized I had shot it with a match round.
I rappeled down the tripod. Got commo up with Dustoff and called in my grid coordinates. Ran to the down deer and popped smoke. I began emergency medical procedures and treated the deer for a sucking chest wound and broken shoulder. Sadly he didn't make it. If only he had known it was a SMK that hit him, he would still be alive.
Funeral services will be next Friday at my smoker.
only about 50 yards away from a 12' tripod. Entry was high right shoulder and exit was low left shoulder. I usualy stick them in the neck but thought, what the hell. </div></div>
Re: 155 smks for hunting
There is something in the medical field we call "evidence based medicine". It describes essentially, positive therapy yielding positive outcome. In other words, if it works, keep doing it. Here's this years evidence regarding my previous post.
These pics are elk. I used the same load thru the ribs of an antelope at 640 yds this year as well. Pics will follow.
This is the entrance into the chest cavity. At this point, the bullet had travelled quite a ways from the very front of the shoulder; nearly facing me.
http://
Same pic with less zoom to show scale and relation to shoulder.
Close up of busted up rib, same entrance.
This is the exit just behind the last rib. I thought I had a pic of the measuring tape in there, I guess not.
Offside flank exit. Note collateral damage.
I would have had more pics of damage during gutting, but my buddies camera had enough juice for one pic and the throwaway film camera I had for emergencies was so grainy, it wasn't worth the effort.
There is something in the medical field we call "evidence based medicine". It describes essentially, positive therapy yielding positive outcome. In other words, if it works, keep doing it. Here's this years evidence regarding my previous post.
These pics are elk. I used the same load thru the ribs of an antelope at 640 yds this year as well. Pics will follow.
This is the entrance into the chest cavity. At this point, the bullet had travelled quite a ways from the very front of the shoulder; nearly facing me.
http://
Same pic with less zoom to show scale and relation to shoulder.
Close up of busted up rib, same entrance.
This is the exit just behind the last rib. I thought I had a pic of the measuring tape in there, I guess not.
Offside flank exit. Note collateral damage.
I would have had more pics of damage during gutting, but my buddies camera had enough juice for one pic and the throwaway film camera I had for emergencies was so grainy, it wasn't worth the effort.
Re: 155 smks for hunting
Here's the loper:
Here's the family!
This one is my favorite. Notice how the oldest is helping and totally into it and the youngest is just a little freaked! Also good view of offside exit.
Here's the interior view of the entrance.
Interior view of the exit. I shot thru the ribs on purpose instead of the usual high shoulder. Notice abscence of lung matter and heart was more than deflated; more like MIA. I used the same load on this years' deer too! Again, pics to follow. They are worth MORE than a thousand words.
Here's the loper:
Here's the family!
This one is my favorite. Notice how the oldest is helping and totally into it and the youngest is just a little freaked! Also good view of offside exit.
Here's the interior view of the entrance.
Interior view of the exit. I shot thru the ribs on purpose instead of the usual high shoulder. Notice abscence of lung matter and heart was more than deflated; more like MIA. I used the same load on this years' deer too! Again, pics to follow. They are worth MORE than a thousand words.
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